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Broli
05-13-2006, 12:29 PM
the other thread is a bit long,
and has more than a few essay style responses in it!

so, lets start fresh!

i am thinking we need the following positions

1 president
1 VP
1 treasurer
1-2 PR (sponsorships and official events and affiliates)
1 membership officer
2 east
2 west
2 central reps
1 Webmaster

i know people said that they don\'t think we need so many postions
but it makes less work for all the people involved (i.e if ur busy u can still help out)
it is always good to have more voices when discussing things
that will matter to the whole club!

but we can trim if necessary
reps will be least amount of work, but may have duties in attending meets in their
regions to collect membership dues

i am starting this new thread, to see what people think in terms of the positions
and
more importantly to see who is interested in a position
and
how should we fill them?

should we do an election?
or should we appoint for the first time
and then do yearly elections or smtg?

lets see what people think

i think we can appoint unless we have tonnes of interest, if we do get tonnes of interest
then we can have an election?


Interested in a Postion list (and spots u might be interested in)

1. Broli (west rep, memberships, PR, VP)
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

S.F.W.
05-13-2006, 12:40 PM
Interested in a Postion list (and spots u might be interested in)

1. Broli (west rep, memberships, PR, VP)
2. S.F.W. (central rep, maybe treasurer with some help_
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

Broli
05-13-2006, 12:43 PM
the way i see it
the treasurer would have help from either the Pres or VP
(i.e. they would also have access to the account)


Interested in a Postion list (and spots u might be interested in)

1. Broli (west rep, memberships, PR, VP)
2. S.F.W. (central rep, maybe treasurer with some help_
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.

majic
05-13-2006, 01:32 PM
how about you do a \'job description\' first? so people actually KNOW what their involvement entails..

Xenon
05-13-2006, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by majic


how about you do a \'job description\' first? so people actually KNOW what their involvement entails..

I agree... this is the problem we ran into before...


and no offence, but all this restructuring talk, you are forgetting a very important piece of the puzzle.

What about all the people who LIKE THE CLUB THE WAY IT IS? Granted we\'ve had a few hiccups in policy and things like that, but what club doesn\'t? Just because of a few mistakes doesn\'t mean the entire staff already running the club has to be replaced.

I\'m proud to say that I have heard tons of kudos and props to those already running the club. In my opinion, Warren is doing a great job as promotions and treasurer. Sure he doesn\'t have the title, but his work with the decals and the plate stickers has been consistantly well executed. Same goes to all the mods on the board. We have a total of 6 people monitoring and keeping the board in line and I think they are all doing a great job.

All of this talk of restructuring seems to be dividing the club more than unifying it. We used to be one happy car club that would go out and have fun at events and car meets. But now on the forums, we are divided. Half want a restructure, half like it the way it is. I don\'t know about you, but almost every car meet I go to, I meet members who say they love the car club for what it is and some are actually repulsed by the idea of changing it so drastically.


Originally posted by Broli

this is like starting fresh!

no ones position is safe, if they want it, they can say they want it
and we can all see about it!



If we are to change, we should do it in a progressive form. Together. I don\'t think it\'s fair that the staff who have put time and effort for two years into this car club be removed simply by this \"restructuring\". It is those people who helped make the club what it is today, and I don\'t think it\'s right that they just get shoved aside.

This is a group (granted a rather large one) of enthusiasts, not a corporation. If we are to have structure, it should be done in a slow progression, electing people that have proven their commitment to the club. And in my opinon, it hasn\'t been long enough to determine anything (although a few individuals have stood out).

We ran into this problem with MOM. We had an original committee of 15 people. all but 5 or 6 dropped out. This is what happens why you try to form a rigid executive structure in a short period of time.

I already said in the original restructuring post. Love the club for what it is. If you don\'t like it, perhaps it isn\'t the right place for you. I think we should be proud of what the club has accomplished so far. After all, we are a young club. We are only 2 years old.

Pimpin_29y
05-13-2006, 04:27 PM
No restructuring is needed. The club is fine the way it is...when the admin and mods feel that the forum is needs restructuring they will. If anyone has any comments and concerns should take it up with them 1st. Sure there are a few bugs but if it weren\'t for them we wouldn\'t even have this community at least give them that much respect. I agree with Xenon on his comment all this talk is accomplishing nothing but dividing the club.

I\'ve been a member here for awhile and have been active in meets and mini meets. I personally have made some good friends here and we go out on a regular basis.

I however don\'t have 1000+ posts because I choose not to take part in the constant immaturity within some of these threads. This site is supposed to be a friendly forum for car enthusaists where members can learn, educate, and help each other.

O-team, White-team, Black team? Mamma jokes? The flaming battles of who has the bigger mouth online? Sure the occasional joke is ok but this is getting ridiculous.

I am sure this makes a great impression on the new members which join us.

My only issue with the MODS/ADMIN are their tolerence.

1. Irrelavant posts- DELETED AND WARNED!
2. Personal attacks- BANNED!
3. Failure to follow the forum rules- BANNED!

The only thing that needs to be changed on the board is the immaturity and constant post whoring.

My 2 cents.

SABIO
05-13-2006, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Broli

1 president
1 VP
1 treasurer
1-2 PR (sponsorships and official events and affiliates)
1 membership officer
2 east
2 west
2 central
1 Webmaster



Again. No one drives a 3 north of Hwy #7...Just so you guys know.
Don\'t include North...we aren\'t included in meets either......

S.F.W.
05-13-2006, 07:52 PM
I\'m north of 7, and drive a 3. I even come out to the mini meets.

Kevin@nextmod
05-13-2006, 08:03 PM
Originally posted by SABIO



Originally posted by Broli

1 president
1 VP
1 treasurer
1-2 PR (sponsorships and official events and affiliates)
1 membership officer
2 east
2 west
2 central
1 Webmaster



Again. No one drives a 3 north of Hwy #7...Just so you guys know.
Don\'t include North...we aren\'t included in meets either......
LOL..! Sarcasm

Xenon
05-13-2006, 10:17 PM
Originally posted by Broli

so, lets start fresh!

i am thinking we need the following positions

2 east
2 west
2 central reps


I would just like to point out that these positions ALWAYS EXISTED there has just been a lack of interest filling them. This list (http://torontomazda3.com/forum/read.php?TID=718) has existed since April 2004. We just never had anyone actually come up and say \"I want this position\".

MajesticBlueNTO
05-13-2006, 10:41 PM
shades of Toronto Subaru Club a few years back when the masses booted the \"corporate\" structure (and it\'s membership fees) in favour of the way the club used to be....except this is the exact opposite.

those that formed the \"corporate\" structure of TSC went on to form SPDA (http://spda-online.ca/).

mEtH
05-14-2006, 01:56 AM
Everyone that is saying \"everything should stay the way it is\" keep referring to things on the forum alone. What about events and promo gear, those are going no where.

Lawrence, you are slapping a title onto warren when all I recall is for the longest time you called him east rep. I understand he is doing work with the decals and has the almighty box but are you sure he wants to be called promotions and treasurer. So if I were to ask Warren what kind of promotions we are looking to doing for 2006 he would be able to answer right on the spot? I am not saying against Warren, I have spoken to him recently about this. If he wants this position then by all means great, but I think it needs to involve a little more if we want to \"become the best club in Toronto\".

You refer to a past list of reps, which for some reason there use to be some but now aren\'t. Out of the reps that were there before which one of them setup the AA Meets, or the MASIV monday meets, how about even the Paloma meets? It seems some members are taking some initiative and try to grow the club, if these meets never started would it still be the one meet a month that started bombing mid year 2005? If so what would be the point of each rep planning the same meet in a different section of town?

Out of all the Promo gear that got discuessed I can only remember 2 things actually happening, Decals and toques. I mean how are new things going to happen if members have to take the initiative and front the money then people bail. That member that took the initiative is going to lose out, that is exactly why no one is starting this themselves. But I have not seen any \"staff\" step in to say well TM3 can front $___ money to get this started for its members.

Xenon you refer to a \"staff who have put time and effort for two years\" who might this be? From the listing you posted and others I have seen its only TM3, Wtom and yourself. What other staff is there, and what are their roles? I understand S.F.W and others helped with MOM but did they ever really get titles? What are their roles now? I also understand the Moderators, but are they involved in starting events as well? what other roles instead of the forum are they involved in? No one plans to kick Xenon out or anything and no one plans to kick Warren out or anything. There is always a place for you guys for your contributions, but as you said before Lawrence, you dont have the time to do it all.

The talk of restructing is dividing the club? How about the people who have been on here and became active memebers for a few months then drop off? Teambedlam for instance, he was a great contribution, but what happened to him? Why can\'t we keep those members here? Is it that he was older then some of the members and didn\'t feel he fit in? or was not fond of the meets (parking lot loitering)? In no way am I trying to pick on him, actually I thought he was a good guy to talk to and was very knowledgeable. Its just very disappointing to lose members like that. It could very well be that he doesn\'t have the time to come on here anymore or something else in his life. But has anyone ever thought about how to keep those members who are not into modding and sitting in parking lots? Thats what most of these events that are being setup by members taking the initiative are doing. That\'s why Masiv mondays are moving around, trying to incorporate something into the meets. Broli gets the focus group to come out and they are a large variation of ages. How can we get more people and more variation of people out to the meets. Ill tell yah how, Cruise & BBQ, being setup by Broli with no one assisting in trying to promote or assist in funding something like that. We need to add something to the meets and make them more of an event! and it doesn\'t have to be every meet, but I\'d say nearly every two months during the summer which really only adds up to 2 or 3 events.


By all means if no one cares to have some fun events happen or any promo gear made available to support the club then I guess we are fine. If all we want are decals and meetings in parking lots then we are fine. I have no problem with the forum except for the common nit picky stuff, for example, the webpage concept of it all. But what about adding some structure so we can get some stuff going here?? What ever happened to that logo? Can the \"staff\" at TM3 not get that moving along? Unless we are sticking with what it is now then kewl, but it seemed a lot of people were agreeing with the idea.

There doesn\'t need to be such a formal structure like President and VP, I mean if you hate how harsh those terms are sounding you can pretty them up. But no matter what you change it to that person is still going to have the same responibilites.

I am sure I probably forgot to say things or lost my train of thought along the way but egh...its 2:00AM and well theres a lot to be said. I did not mean to pick on anyone in anyway and if I did I apoligize. and if Teambedlam is around and reading this, I hope you take no offense to any of it and understand the point I am trying to make, sorry to use you for an example without speaking with you first. Goodnight!

Broli
05-14-2006, 02:23 AM
to address some of the thing said

1. The lounge is for shit posts, anything there is fine, outside of there people should and for the most part do keep it clean and on track, using the lounge as a discusion section is FINE!

2. sure there are reps posted, but if u want people to fill the spots, well, post there occasionaly and ask who is interested? seems like a logical thing to do, no????

3. people are disgusted with the idea of change? interesting! well i am sure that some people are disgusted by the fact our club can\'t even make t-shirts.

4. Meth!!! good post! very interesting and very true!

5. The club and the board can be different things!
the people who like things the way they are,
will not be bothered by t-shirts being made, and extra events being held!
they simply wont attend or not partake, and continue to use the board as it is!


sure some people were involved in this club for longer, and in the beginning i am sure you guys did do quite a lot of work, but that has clearly stopped!

Warren does handle the selling of decals, but that is the job of a sales man, and not a treasurer, u know what i mean??, if he wants to be treasurer i am sure he could be, but that is not what he is doing now! no offence man, just making a point!

if ur too busy to do it Lawerence, then why shouldn\'t someone else????

the one thing i have noticed since i have been posting these sorts of threads
is that the \'originals\' have been posting more!
why is this . . . ?
band-aids are not the answer!!!

mEtH
05-14-2006, 02:30 AM
Alright one last thing...

By no means do I or anyone else want people out at every freggin meet. There is just too many to reach now. But the idea of something other then just standing in a parking lot is key. That\'s what I think needs to be brought to the main meets. I mean if the main meets become more of an event then yes it would be best to rotate it around the GTA so that it will be something different every time. When theres something involved more people will come out. Look at MOM, its a great time! Just doesn\'t have to be as elaborate with awards prizes, etc.

I mean MASIV mondays are a mixed meet of cars posted on a lot of boards, not all TM3ers are fans of meeting up with other clubs or anything. It\'s a pick and choose kind of nature.

In regards to the \"restructuring\", so Lawrence post up how you would do it. I understand what Alex has done here might be abrupt and really should be some more descriptions and stuff but thats why it is posted. Lets work together to phase it through, hey maybe we dont want a President and Vice. But rather managers? post up thoughts and even descriptions for some of the positions.

SABIO
05-14-2006, 02:40 AM
i clicked on the topic... saw the god damn essay methodyst wrote.... and went somewhere else:sarc

Broli
05-14-2006, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by SABIO


i clicked on the topic... saw the god damn essay methodyst wrote.... and went somewhere else:sarc

you should read it!!

Fuman
05-14-2006, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by Broli
2. sure there are reps posted, but if u want people to fill the spots, well, post there occasionaly and ask who is interested? seems like a logical thing to do, no????

3. people are disgusted with the idea of change? interesting! well i am sure that some people are disgusted by the fact our club can\'t even make t-shirts.


2 - that thread is a sticky... you should have seen it before starting this thread.

3 - T-shirts? that mods stopped replying (don\'t know if its on purpose or not) after you inserted the membership fee idea. And looking at the interest in that thread theres 5 ppl that want it. If a company is gonna make 5 custom t-shirts, its not going to be $20 bucks.

If you want to suggest additional position to the forum, maybe it would go better.
TM3 is trying to find a people for to help with the website.

as xenon puts it, small gradual changes should take place if needed.


SO DOES ANYONE WANT TO FILL THE POSITIONS LISTED IN THIS THREAD?
http://torontomazda3.com/forum/read.php?TID=718
PM xenon if your interested...

Broli
05-14-2006, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Fuman



Originally posted by Broli
2. sure there are reps posted, but if u want people to fill the spots, well, post there occasionaly and ask who is interested? seems like a logical thing to do, no????

3. people are disgusted with the idea of change? interesting! well i am sure that some people are disgusted by the fact our club can\'t even make t-shirts.


2 - that thread is a sticky... you should have seen it before starting this thread.

3 - T-shirts? that mods stopped replying (don\'t know if its on purpose or not) after you inserted the membership fee idea. And looking at the interest in that thread theres 5 ppl that want it. If a company is gonna make 5 custom t-shirts, its not going to be $20 bucks.

If you want to suggest additional position to the forum, maybe it would go better.
TM3 is trying to find a people for to help with the website.

as xenon puts it, small gradual changes should take place if needed.


SO DOES ANYONE WANT TO FILL THE POSITIONS LISTED IN THIS THREAD?
http://torontomazda3.com/forum/read.php?TID=718
PM xenon if your interested...

yeah the thread is sticky

but it could have been bumped, i.e. to say they are looking to fill the spots,
it seemed that the idea was just dead!

membership fees, was an idea, it may be(and likely is) too soon for something like that,
i will admit that!
maybe a few people can make some small donations to get a small cashflow started!
i am not sure what kind of costs are involved in upgrading web software and such
but with as little as 500 or so we could probably get t-shirts or what not made

TM3 is looking for people to help, because i posted that thread, not just because!!!
it is a good thing, but it is not like he realilzed that help was needed, well he probably
realized, but didn\'t act! (do u see what i am saying????)
but he has be straight forward and upfront with us in the last few days, and i can accept that
as a start

adding additional positions to the existing format, is an acceptable idea

why PM Xenon about those spots, he resigned his position? didn\'t u read that?
i think that Warren is the last person left with an official postion
wouldn\'t it make more sense to PM him??

t shirts!
i am certain there would be more interest than 5 people
we could set up a thread,
\"who is interested in t-shirts for 15-20 dollars\"
and i bet u we see that people would buy them
people weren\'t interested in t-shirts with logos all over the back!

also, most people don\'t care about the organization of the thing, they just want to say
yes i want it! and thats all, since people were discussing the matter there, thats probably why not a lot of people said anything!

it needs to be like!

ok!
we have shirts available
in these sizes
in these colours
for this price

who wants one!

done and done!

Fuman
05-14-2006, 02:26 PM
the t-shirt thread went dead with THREE ppl listed in the buy and its not locked or anything.
http://torontomazda3.com/forum/read.php?TID=5846

I said PM xenon cause hes still an admin of this forum and hes the person that replied in this thread. You can also PM wtom if you want.

upgrading the forum is FREE if using phpbb. TM3 said he was trying to migrate to
http://www.phpbb.com/downloads.php phpbb but the migration failed. I asked him what happened, but since hes busy on weekends, he probably wont reply till early next week.

Please note: not all forum software is free. vbulletin that msprotege.com / toprotege.com uses is not free. http://www.vbulletin.com/order/

upgrading the forum, also takes A LOT of time, and there are going to be bugs that have to be worked out even if migration is successful.

but seriously back on topic.
Lets fill the positions listed in
http://torontomazda3.com/forum/read.php?TID=718
Get that moving, and wait till TM3 picks out a web designer and/or web developer.

edit: xenon is still looking into t-shirts it seems:
http://www.torontomazda3.com/forum/read.php?TID=6159#87937

Xenon
05-14-2006, 07:06 PM
In reply to Methodyst\'s question of how I would do this:

I would first hold a series of meetings over 3 months (our monthly meets would do) in which we actually meet at a place where we can disuss what is plausable and doable. In these meetings, any and all members are invited to put input. Their suggestions are documented and then later posted in the forum for all to see. In the forum, these ideas are discussed so that in the following meeting, modifications or additional suggestions to the original input can be discussed. Why 3 meetings? One in West, one in Central, one in East and/or one in North. That way no matter what the location, all members have a chance to attend and have their input.

Throughout these three meetings, the positions that are required of the club will be determined, and matching job descriptions will be created for each position. After all of this is determined, the final job descriptions are posted and nominations are held for each position. With the nominations, members can promote or object to these nominations and voice their opinion why or why not a member should fill the position.

There is a final vote for each position and there will be a declared winner for all the positions. should a position lack nominations, it will be open to any member wishing to take part, and if there are no objections, the position can be filled by that individual.

------

I recongnize that members in the club want change. I have no objections to that. I also recognize that the current staff running the board and the club is insufficient. I will also agree to that. But what I don\'t think is right, is that we are rushing into this, and EVERYTHING is happening through the forums, and in a short time without any real discussion about it.

At this time, I\'m willing to agree that all spots are open to anyone. Because I now think that if memebers of the club feel that a person is qualified for a position, because they are doing a good job of it now, then they will be elected anyways.

My main concern is the timeframe in which we choose to accomplish all of this. I think if we are going to do this properly, we actually have to have thorough discussions about it. I just think it\'s wrong to all of a sudden create positions when no one knows what the positions entail. And it is my opinion that these positions cannot be just slapped together overnight.

TM3
05-14-2006, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by Fuman


the t-shirt thread went dead with THREE ppl listed in the buy and its not locked or anything.
http://torontomazda3.com/forum/read.php?TID=5846

I said PM xenon cause hes still an admin of this forum and hes the person that replied in this thread. You can also PM wtom if you want.

upgrading the forum is FREE if using phpbb. TM3 said he was trying to migrate to
http://www.phpbb.com/downloads.php phpbb but the migration failed. I asked him what happened, but since hes busy on weekends, he probably wont reply till early next week.

Please note: not all forum software is free. vbulletin that msprotege.com / toprotege.com uses is not free. http://www.vbulletin.com/order/

upgrading the forum, also takes A LOT of time, and there are going to be bugs that have to be worked out even if migration is successful.

but seriously back on topic.
Lets fill the positions listed in
http://torontomazda3.com/forum/read.php?TID=718
Get that moving, and wait till TM3 picks out a web designer and/or web developer.

edit: xenon is still looking into t-shirts it seems:
http://www.torontomazda3.com/forum/read.php?TID=6159#87937

i\'ve pm\'d you about the phpbb conversion. And like Fuman said, any change with a php bulletin board using mysql is never an easy and short task.

I don\'t think converting the forum is first priority. if we have to do it manually, it could take weeks of downtime unless someone can dedicate to it full time. Although the forum lacks in many ways, it is still functioning for the important purposes. I\'m thinking maybe even workout other kinks first, improve the website design, etc... then worry about the forum.. maybe in the off season after september.

so far, web design, methodyst offered to help and fuman offered for backend programming, etc. Any one else wishing to help, can step up and we can all work something out.

Fuman
05-15-2006, 12:58 AM
I PMed you back then I saw this post.

I can do some changes to the main page.
for example, the meets section (on the mainpage) can be updated by a mod and/or admin.

i\'m actually e-mailing toprotege person about the conversion issue. I\'ll see if he can be of help. I personally haven\'t done a full forum conversion so the testing phase will be very vigorous, when I/we do get around to it.

If we are doing the forum migration, I would suggest sometime between
sept - dec. because thats when my work term is, I\'ll have more time on weekday evenings to handle it.


edit: has anyone heard of http://www.php0h.com/ its a free php hosting site. I\'m thinking of doing the testing there if we can\'t do it here.

Broli
05-15-2006, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by Xenon


In reply to Methodyst\'s question of how I would do this:

I would first hold a series of meetings over 3 months (our monthly meets would do) in which we actually meet at a place where we can disuss what is plausable and doable. In these meetings, any and all members are invited to put input. Their suggestions are documented and then later posted in the forum for all to see. In the forum, these ideas are discussed so that in the following meeting, modifications or additional suggestions to the original input can be discussed. Why 3 meetings? One in West, one in Central, one in East and/or one in North. That way no matter what the location, all members have a chance to attend and have their input.

Throughout these three meetings, the positions that are required of the club will be determined, and matching job descriptions will be created for each position. After all of this is determined, the final job descriptions are posted and nominations are held for each position. With the nominations, members can promote or object to these nominations and voice their opinion why or why not a member should fill the position.

There is a final vote for each position and there will be a declared winner for all the positions. should a position lack nominations, it will be open to any member wishing to take part, and if there are no objections, the position can be filled by that individual.

------

I recongnize that members in the club want change. I have no objections to that. I also recognize that the current staff running the board and the club is insufficient. I will also agree to that. But what I don\'t think is right, is that we are rushing into this, and EVERYTHING is happening through the forums, and in a short time without any real discussion about it.

At this time, I\'m willing to agree that all spots are open to anyone. Because I now think that if memebers of the club feel that a person is qualified for a position, because they are doing a good job of it now, then they will be elected anyways.

My main concern is the timeframe in which we choose to accomplish all of this. I think if we are going to do this properly, we actually have to have thorough discussions about it. I just think it\'s wrong to all of a sudden create positions when no one knows what the positions entail. And it
is my opinion that these positions cannot be just slapped together overnight.


perfect!!!
i tried to set up a a meeting to discuss these things
SFW and Sabio replied!

but i think ur idea of setting up three meetings is good!
i don\'t think they need to be all at the actual meets
and perhaps trying different times
i.e. a weeknight, a weekend day and a weekend evening
would give everyone the chance to make it to a meeting, regardless of schedule!

Now ur talking Lawerence!!!!

Hypothrml
05-15-2006, 03:47 PM
I think Campeotto and I will represent West central (ie. anything close to the Hwy 400). S.F.W. can rep anything further East central.