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View Full Version : Shifting from 1st to 2nd (manual tranny)



Skarbro
02-07-2007, 09:28 PM
There's been a few discussions on the mazdaforums board on this but I'm curious on how people on here handle it.

I, like many others, find shifting from 1st to 2nd with this tranny a tad tricky to shift smoothly occasionally. Other manuals I've driven have been much easier to shift between these gears.

Some say you should lift the clutch slower (which seems to me will burn the clutch a little more).

Some say to give it a little gas.

I usually don't think about it and can get it pretty smooth. But on occasion it isn't so smooth. The higher gears are no problem.

Comments?

faibs
02-08-2007, 03:49 AM
dude! lol i swear i was just about to post the same thing

Xerox
02-08-2007, 04:18 AM
You find that this happens at any time?
The only time I find it "tricky" is when the tranny oil isn't up to good operating temp. Once it's warmed up it's smooth as butter (I'm using RedLine).

Skarbro
02-08-2007, 05:28 AM
You find that this happens at any time?
The only time I find it "tricky" is when the tranny oil isn't up to good operating temp. Once it's warmed up it's smooth as butter (I'm using RedLine).

Happens at any temperature. It's a constant thing. I wonder if switching to synthetic/Redline would help? Hmmm....

Skarbro
02-08-2007, 05:28 AM
dude! lol i swear i was just about to post the same thing

Heh... You've beaten me to posts on the HoFo board a couple of times.

Wild Weasel
02-08-2007, 08:00 AM
I'm not sure what you're describing. Is it tough to put the shift lever into gear? Tough to smoothly let the clutch out?

Skarbro
02-08-2007, 08:06 AM
I'm not sure what you're describing. Is it tough to put the shift lever into gear? Tough to smoothly let the clutch out?

It has nothing to do with the shifter.

When the clutch is released while shifting into 2nd, it is sometimes tricky to match the revs (it will "clunk" at worst and either bog or lurch depending on your gas). I know this sounds crazy because I'm talking about shifting UP, not down. It's a very narrow window to match it smoothly.

I find that shifting at higher revs (3,000+) will help it shift smoother, but that doesn't seem right either.

Wild Weasel
02-08-2007, 08:35 AM
I've never actively "matched revs" when upshifting. Bringing down the revs is easy, so there's no jerking of the car when you let the clutch out and the revs are pulled down by the tranny.

Maybe you've just got close enough ratios that when you shift, the revs are actually dropping lower than they need to be so when you let the clutch out, you actually need to bring them up a little? This is just wild speculation, but if this is the case then it would mean you just need to shift a little quicker or, as you suggested, waiting a little longer to shift.

I've been trying to figure out what's better for fuel economy... waiting a little longer to shift or shifting earlier and keeping the revs down. Simple thought tells me that keeping the revs down will save gas, but when you consider that the engine is designed to be most efficient at cruising speeds, and cruising speeds are up around 3000 rpm, keeping the RPM's low might actually be worse on gas.

So it's not clutch chatter or a notchy shifter or any such thing? It's simply not getting a smooth transition of the car from 1st to 2nd?

Skarbro
02-08-2007, 08:41 AM
So it's not clutch chatter or a notchy shifter or any such thing? It's simply not getting a smooth transition of the car from 1st to 2nd?

Exactly. I've tried all kinds of scenarios. What seems to work best is letting out the clutch a little slower AND giving it a little gas. It just seems like this is not good for the clutch though.

Letting out the clutch fast just isn't smooth at all. Although I guess if I was racing, then that is the way to go.

Wild Weasel
02-08-2007, 08:57 AM
If you were racing, you'd be giving it a LOT more gas. :)

I just don't know what to suggest here, since I can't imagine what it is you're doing wrong. The revs should not be dropping below where they need to be for 2nd.

If they are, then you need to shift later.

The other thing is that you're not giving it enough gas to keep going or continue accelerating in 2nd. That one should be obvious though so it's not something I'd expect you to come here scratching your head about.

You don't drop the clutch when shifting from 1st to 2nd. You let it out smoothly while giving gas. You can nearly drop it going to 3rd or 4th because the ratios are big enough to allow a smooth transition. Is this the issue? Are you really just trying to let it out way too fast?

Skarbro
02-08-2007, 09:39 AM
Sounds like you understand what I'm talking about. I'm thinking that the problem is that shifting into second you have to give it more revs than in other cars - either by giving gas and releasing the clutch slowly, or by shifting at 3,000+ RPMs.

I've driven other cars where 1st to 2nd is no harder than shifting from 2nd to 3rd and above. You just drop it like its hot and it's smooth. In this car you really have to smoothen it out manually.

Wild Weasel
02-08-2007, 09:48 AM
Sounds like you understand what I'm talking about. I'm thinking that the problem is that shifting into second you have to give it more revs than in other cars - either by giving gas and releasing the clutch slowly, or by shifting at 3,000+ RPMs.

I've driven other cars where 1st to 2nd is no harder than shifting from 2nd to 3rd and above. You just drop it like its hot and it's smooth. In this car you really have to smoothen it out manually.

Perhaps those other cars had torque? :)

*running from the masses*

Wild Weasel
02-08-2007, 09:49 AM
Actually... I should really retract that. The 2.3 only has 5 ft-lbs less than what my car came stock with.

Mazda != Honda :)

Skarbro
02-08-2007, 10:00 AM
Heh..

Well from your replies it seems like I've been shifting it correctly afterall (theoretically). It just seems weird to have to do that to shift.

I'm hoping some others chime in here...

faibs
02-08-2007, 03:27 PM
i tried today shifting from 1 to 2 at 3k and it happened to be a lot smoother than usual. but i couldnt just drop it, it was done slower than 2-3, 3-4 or whatever

Skarbro
02-08-2007, 03:46 PM
i tried today shifting from 1 to 2 at 3k and it happened to be a lot smoother than usual. but i couldnt just drop it, it was done slower than 2-3, 3-4 or whatever

Cool. I think the key here is to release the clutch slower.

Flagrum_3
02-08-2007, 04:10 PM
Cool. I think the key here is to release the clutch slower.

You stated earlier that you get this problem all the time right?! Well I think its odd,....I get the problem only when the tranny is cold and I solved it by either double clutching or just giving extra time to shift before releasing the clutch.But once the tranny is warm there's no delay whatsoever, I just release the clutch normally, smooth release timed to equal gas pressure.Also synthetic will not help as I've also changed to Redline and the problem still exists but Only When Cold.


_3


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faibs
02-08-2007, 05:36 PM
hmm im gonna try reving really hit and going 1-3

Skarbro
02-08-2007, 05:48 PM
You stated earlier that you get this problem all the time right?! Well I think its odd,....I get the problem only when the tranny is cold and I solved it by either double clutching or just giving extra time to shift before releasing the clutch.But once the tranny is warm there's no delay whatsoever, I just release the clutch normally, smooth release timed to equal gas pressure.Also synthetic will not help as I've also changed to Redline and the problem still exists but Only When Cold.


_3


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I wouldn't call it a problem. I'm sure nothing is wrong with the car as many others have had similar questions.

I think this is more of a technique thing. I can shift smoothly with little effort now - it's just different than the higher gears in that you need to do a couple more steps.

What RPM are you shifting at?

Flagrum_3
02-08-2007, 07:09 PM
When cold I shift at 1800-2k, once warm usually 2500/3000rpm


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MAZDA Kitten
02-09-2007, 12:07 AM
^^ +1

But going back to the original poster I have the same deal

Skarbro
02-09-2007, 05:31 AM
I'm moving towards regularly shifting (when warmed up) at 3,000-3,250. I find by doing this, I can let the clutch out a little faster while still keeping it smooth. Also have to keep the gas going just a little. This seems to work well.

Wild Weasel
02-09-2007, 07:31 AM
I paid special attention this morning. I really don't treat 2nd differently than any other gear. Just let the clutch out quick and smooth. http://www.michelleandkevin.ca/forum/images/smiles/gotme.gif

Skarbro
02-09-2007, 08:14 AM
I paid special attention this morning. I really don't treat 2nd differently than any other gear. Just let the clutch out quick and smooth. http://www.michelleandkevin.ca/forum/images/smiles/gotme.gif

Exactly! In other cars, this isn't an issue.

Anyway I stated above 3,000-3,250 RPMs shifting - This morning I was consistantly just shifting at 3,250-3,500 and its really smooth that way. Seems a little high in my head, but it works pretty well.

Flagrum_3
02-09-2007, 08:23 AM
^^^There is a drawwback to that method, you'll undoubtably notice an increase in fuel consumption when shifting at those higher rpms, especially if the engine is cold....wheather that bothers you or not!?


_3


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Skarbro
02-09-2007, 08:38 AM
Well, I don't shift that high when the engine is cold - I don't go above 3,000.

The solution to shifting at lower RPM's is to let out the clutch slower and give it some gas.

Either method seems ok to me. It all depends on how fast you want to go and how much you are concerned about fuel efficiency.

Wild Weasel
02-09-2007, 09:10 AM
Yeah, that seems a bit high to me as well for casual driving, but if it works...

I didn't really pay much attention to how much gas I was giving. I was just giving enough that everything was smooth. :)

It's funny how second-nature the whole process becomes that it's really just like walking now. I know I can drive my car smoothly... but haven't a clue about the details involved in doing so. :)

wtom
02-09-2007, 11:40 AM
I'm moving towards regularly shifting (when warmed up) at 3,000-3,250. I find by doing this, I can let the clutch out a little faster while still keeping it smooth. Also have to keep the gas going just a little. This seems to work well.

+1

Shifting from 1st to 2nd, under 3K it can be unsmooth, but higher RPM shifts, it will be smoother.

blk_muzda
02-09-2007, 02:12 PM
I had this problem since day 1. When it's cold and engine idles at 1500+, I actually have to shift a bit higher. If I shift low in first, say 2000, when I get into second the car will be at 1500 rpm and start to stall.

Going from 1st to 2nd, I always have to clutch in, shift to second, wait around 1 or 2 second before releasing the clutch to match the rev. I can also let the clutch out really slowly. If I let the clutch out right away, the car will jerk.

pahecko
02-10-2007, 10:50 PM
hmmm.... I have notice that, at times, 1st - second can be result in some unpleasentries and in those cases the rpms where lower. The solution does seem to be, as pointed out, riding the clutch more then you probably should or slowing your clutch release to a crawl. Personaly, it's rare if i'm shifting lower then 3k, on any gear. :D

On a similar note, I notice 3's are a bit more touchy when it comes to releasing the clutch. I haven't drove that many dif cars but it seems I can release the clutch much quicker without jerking versus my 3, regardless of gear or rpms.

PlatMS6
02-11-2007, 11:41 AM
4 words....Beefier rear engine mount

pahecko
02-12-2007, 10:09 PM
4 words....Beefier rear engine mount

And this will fix the "problem"?

PhantomPurple_07
02-13-2007, 04:21 PM
i read somewhere, that b/c new cars are going from cable throttle to electronic controls that there is a tendency to have the revs stay higher when the gas is release for just a few seconds. so it could be that you're shifting to quick while the revs are "artificially" high and thus the unsmooth shift. I have noticed that my revs can stay high every once in a while when i let off of the gas while i'm shifting.

not sure if that could be part of it.

plus, i've noticed that it's a little hard to shift when its really cold, like this morning... i dunno??

marc
02-24-2007, 12:06 AM
Skarbro, it's not just your car man.

This is just the way the Mazda tranny is, took me a while to adjust as well. The 1st-2nd shift requires more gas than any other upshift in my experience. I know what you mean about it not feeling right, but that's the car.
and yeah, the the mazda3 tranny doesn't like the cold much, but once it warms up I have no problems nailing the shifts.

Skarbro
02-24-2007, 07:29 AM
Well after adjusting to the techniques I've outlined above, I shift smoothly every single time. It was tricky to figure out, but now that I have, it's easy as pie. ;)

Elder_MMHS
04-14-2007, 03:59 AM
i read somewhere, that b/c new cars are going from cable throttle to electronic controls that there is a tendency to have the revs stay higher when the gas is release for just a few seconds. so it could be that you're shifting to quick while the revs are "artificially" high and thus the unsmooth shift. I have noticed that my revs can stay high every once in a while when i let off of the gas while i'm shifting.

not sure if that could be part of it.

plus, i've noticed that it's a little hard to shift when its really cold, like this morning... i dunno??

Sorry for responding to an old thread - just thought I'd put in my two cents since I notice this daily.

I chalk it up to the same thing - basically our engines -- especially the 2.3L ones -- run really rich (ever notice all the soot on the exhaust finisher?) and because of DBW, the ECU keeps the revs up for a bit to burn off the excess fuel and help with emissions. This results in a rev hang and if you're doing a straightforward gas-off, clutch-in, shift, clutch-release, gas-on, you'll notice the car jerks a bit as the engine tries to match the transmission. It's around on some other cars too - supposedly the pre-'07 Honda Civic Si is exceptionally notorious for this. To remedy, I usually let off the throttle slightly before actually disengaging the clutch and the revs will fall accordingly. 2-3 and other upshifts aren't so bad since the relative ratios are closer, but ultimately it's about being smooth.

As for the shifter being a bit difficult when cold, it just hasn't had time to warm up, as others have stated. Just take it easy for the first few minutes and don't force anything.

Skarbro
04-14-2007, 09:14 AM
Glad you brought this thread back up because I wanted to add to it now.

After installing the Street Unit engine mount, shifting is even smoother. The issue with 1st to 2nd has been solved for me with technique, but the mount makes it even easier.

Flagrum_3
04-15-2007, 08:16 AM
You could have chimed in any time Skarbro, you started the thread! and by the way I was hoping you would....thanks for the info!


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maumau
04-20-2007, 11:53 AM
i found it stuck at 2 to 3 all the time

wingnut12
04-20-2007, 10:13 PM
I've never found an issue between 1-2 other than the fact that it really surges if I shift above 3500 rpm. Then again, after 2+ years, I might have just subconsciously found a way around it.

It's good to know about the engine mount though. I've heard a few people on here complaining about the stock ones.