Ontario Auto Insurance FAQ

[Skarbro]

Firstly there is one rule to this thread:

No posting “I pay $XXXX in premium”, or “How much do you pay in premium?”

For that you can post here:
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=10926

I’ve tried to limit the FAQ to questions commonly asked on the board. If there is anything else you would like added, please let me know. Also, please feel free to point out any corrections that need to be made. This didn't take me very long to write up, so I'm sure I missed something. This is a work in progress.

OK. Now some light reading:

This is a publication issued by the Financial Services Commission of Ontario (FSCO). It gives very good general outline of Ontario Automobile Insurance:
http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/insurance/auto/und-auto-Jan07.pdf

This is the Ontario Automobile Policy 1 (OAP1). It outlines all the statutory conditions and responsibilities of you and your insurance company:
http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/forms/autoforms/endorsement/OAP1_23-10-2006.pdf[/URL]


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Ontario Auto Insurance FAQ

How is my premium calculated?
FSCO’s website has an excellent tutorial on how insurance companies come up with your premium here:
http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/insurance/auto/educrateguide.asp (http://ontarioinsurance.com/english/insurance/auto/oap2005.pdf)

How can I tell who is at-fault in an accident?
In Ontario, the Fault Determination Rules apply. You can find them here:
[URL]http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/regs/english/elaws_regs_900668_e.htm

The police say that I am not at-fault but the insurance company says I am. Which is correct?
These are two different things. For the police, they determine fault to see if you will get charged. For the insurance company, fault is determined per the Fault Determination Rules to determine if you are liable for the accident under the Insurance Act.

What happens after I get into an accident?
FSCO has a good publication on this process:
http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/insurance/auto/after_auto_accident_ENG.pdf

If I am found not at-fault, will my premium go up?
No. It is illegal for the insurance company to increase your premium for not at-fault claims.

What is no-fault insurance?
Firstly no-fault insurance does NOT mean that no one is at-fault.
With no-fault insurance, you always claim against your own insurance company if you are involved in an accident with another Ontario vehicle or a vehicle in a jurisdiction with a no-fault reciprocal agreement with Ontario. It is designed to eliminate much of the court costs associated with people suing insurance third party insurance companies and visa versa. In theory, this reduces the overall costs to insurance companies and keeps our premiums lower.
Although you claim against your own insurance company, your rates will not go up if you are found to be not at-fault.

What modifications will the insurance company allow me to do to my car?
Appearance mods are ok. Electronics are covered up to a standard limit of $1,500 normally. Be sure to inform the insurance company of any electronics over the standard $1,500 limit so that they can insure them appropriately. Note – some insurance companies may have a different standard limit. Check with your insurance company to be sure.

What modifications are not allowed?
Most insurance companies have filed rules against performance and lowering modifications. For example, you fitting the vehicle with an aftermarket intake enhances the performance. The insurance company can use this information to cancel you and/or deny a claim. In general, if your car is not 15 years old or more, you can only insure your vehicle with Facility Association insurance.

What is the Facility Association?
(Taken from their website):
The Facility Association is an entity established by the automobile insurance industry to ensure that automobile insurance is available to all owners and licensed drivers of motor vehicles where such owners or drivers are unable to obtain automobile insurance through the voluntary insurance market.

Is racing at a track ok?
No. One of the statutory conditions in the OAP1 states:

1.4.6 You agree not to use or allow anyone to use the automobile in a race or speed test or for any illegal trade or transportation.

If your insurance company finds out that you race the vehicle at a track or anywhere else, they will cancel your policy and/or deny claims.

Can I let others drive my car without informing the insurance company?
Yes. However, you must inform the insurance company of all people in your household who hold valid driver's licences.
Also, as the owner, it is up to you to ensure that the vehicle is driven by someone trustworthy. Any claims would count against the owner's policy.

What happens if I hit an animal (i.e. moose, deer, etc.)?
There are two scenarios to consider. If the animal was in motion and ran into you or you ran into it, then this is a Comprehensive claim. You are not at-fault, but must pay your Comprehensive deductible.
If you hit a stationary animal (i.e., roadkill), then this could be considered a Collision claim. You would likely be deemed at-fault as if you hit a stationary object on the road.

Will my premium drop when I turn 25?
In general, your rate will go down with respect to your age with most insurance companies. So if all other factors remain the same, your premium will go down. However, some things like general rate increases or getting a speeding conviction can offset your savings.

How does an at-fault accident affect my premium?
(copied from FSCO's website)
In many cases, if you have your first at-fault accident after six or more years of claims-free and conviction-free driving, your premium may not change or may increase by a relatively small amount. Some insurance companies offer endorsements to drivers that will allow them to maintain their driving record or premium after a first at-fault accident. Most companies will change your driving record to reflect the accident and increase your premium by a small amount. You will need to regain your six years of accident-free driving before you return to lower premiums. If this is your second at-fault accident in the last six years, you can expect your premiums to increase quite significantly.
If you have any convictions or cancellations of a policy, in addition to an at-fault accident, or are an inexperienced driver with an at-fault accident, you may be considered to be a high-risk driver and be placed with an insurer that specializes in these types of risks.

What is "Full Coverage"?
There's no such thing. No Ontario Automobile Insurance policy comes without exceptions.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

CORRESPONDING THREAD: MODIFICATIONS AND YOUR INSURANCE
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=23202

[3GFX]

Thank you. Stickied.

[Jeff-TheBiz]

Nice contribution Ken.. Good info.

[doughboyr6]

good job.

[Skarbro]

Thanks. I'll keep an eye out for more common insurance questions on the board and add them to the list.

[Gizzmo_jr]

What about a FAQ part? Like "If I hit an animal" question. I've been through it and its really quite simple. It's deemed no fault and covered under collision comprehensive. No rate increase cause of no fault. It's better to hit the animal, then to avoid and hit something else which is now an at fault accident and not covered.

[Skarbro]

What about a FAQ part? Like "If I hit an animal" question. I've been through it and its really quite simple. It's deemed no fault and covered under collision comprehensive. No rate increase cause of no fault. It's better to hit the animal, then to avoid and hit something else which is now an at fault accident and not covered.
Added!

[Soyabean]

speaking of this animal hitting thing. I have a question.

If i do hit one (knock on wood i hope i dont), do i stay at the scene and call the police? or should i keep driving and call the insurance company later on during the day? Like wouldn't the insurance company need to have someone check it out to see if your car was actually damaged because you hit an animal?

And im sure this is different from hitting a racoon which can cause minor bumper damage and hitting a deer which can cause some pretty severe damage to the front.

[Jeff-TheBiz]

And im sure this is different from hitting a racoon which can cause minor bumper damage and hitting a deer which can cause some pretty severe damage to the front.

Funny you should say that.

A client of mine that picked up last year, recently hit a racoon, spun, ditch, roll... = write off.

Yes... a racoon.

[jstro]

Hey, useful information - always wondered about a lot of this stuff.

Thank you, sir.

[Skarbro]

speaking of this animal hitting thing. I have a question.

If i do hit one (knock on wood i hope i dont), do i stay at the scene and call the police? or should i keep driving and call the insurance company later on during the day? Like wouldn't the insurance company need to have someone check it out to see if your car was actually damaged because you hit an animal?

And im sure this is different from hitting a racoon which can cause minor bumper damage and hitting a deer which can cause some pretty severe damage to the front.
It's always wise to take pictures. These days most everyone has a camera-phone. A raccoon is the same as a moose liability-wise. It's not your fault if he runs out of nowhere in front of your car. But you will still need to pay the collision deductible.

I've had arguments with some claims adjusters on this issue. Many of them charge this situation as at-fault. Fight this until you turn blue. It's a common mistake in the industry.

[doughboyr6]

my understanding is that if it is an animal that runs out in front of the car and alive before the impact, it would be paid under comprehensive not collision and your deductible applies. But if it was already dead on the road and you hit/run over it and causes damage, then it's paid under collision and its respective deductible applies.

[Skarbro]

my understanding is that if it is an animal that runs out in front of the car and alive before the impact, it would be paid under comprehensive not collision and your deductible applies. But if it was already dead on the road and you hit/run over it and causes damage, then it's paid under collision and its respective deductible applies.
I think that it's treated 2 different ways depending on if you hit the animal head-on or not. But you are right in that in many cases it is handled as a Comprehensive claim. I'll update the FAQ...

[SilentJay]

How about the length of time an at-fault accident stays a factor in premium determination? I've read 6 or 7 years through various sources.

[Skarbro]

How about the length of time an at-fault accident stays a factor in premium determination? I've read 6 or 7 years through various sources.
Added!

[Skarbro]

Here's a link to a Q&A in today's Toronto Star on insurance, mods, and racetracks. It hits the nail right on the head:

http://www.wheels.ca/article/213810



Mods for racetrack threaten insurance

Only resort is Facility Association when most insurers will not cover highly modified vehicles

Eric Lai
Toronto Star
Mar 22, 2008

Q: How do insurance companies handle people who run their cars on the race track?
I'd previously asked about modifying my suspension but was warned they would drop my coverage even for that. I've had no tickets or accidents.
What implications would there be if they found out that I track the car three to eight times during the summer season?
Everyone agrees that racing should be on the track rather than the streets, but there seems to be little information out there for people who want to enjoy this hobby safely and legally.
A: James Geuzebroek, media relations manager with the Insurance Bureau of Canada, advises that most underwriters in the regular market will not insure vehicles with major modifications – especially those designed to improve track performance.
Your existing automobile insurance policy also will not provide coverage while the vehicle is being used on the track.
Coverage can be obtained for regular, on-road use of modified or track-driven vehicles through the Facility Association, states Geuzebroek.
Eric Lai adds:
To guard against liability, insurers seem to presume that all vehicles modified for extreme-performance driving will be used for such – be it on-track or by endangering everyone on public roadways – rather than being just for show. As such, these autos are placed in the high-risk category and owners must seek insurance through the Facility Association, which is known as the insurer of last resort for convicted drunk drivers and others that regular underwriters do not wish to represent.
Owners of unmodified vehicles may also find themselves in the same dilemma if a driver on their policy is convicted of dangerous/impaired driving or a so-called "street racing" offence, or has multiple at-fault collisions currently on record.

[TheLouch]

A rather heavy read, but the OAP publication does address a number of 'grey' areas, such as allowing others to use your vehicle:


Section 3 - Liability Coverage
3.2 Who is Covered
You are covered when you, or anyone else in possession of a described automobile with your consent, uses or operates it. We will consider these other people insured persons.

So it seems that as long as you consent to another person using your vehicle, they and the vehicle are still covered under your policy. But that begs the question - what is the point of adding a secondary or "occasional" driver to your policy?

This is especially odd in circumstances where children use their parent's vehicles. I've always been under the impression that in order for a child to legally drive their parent's vehicle, they must be a named driver under the parent's insurance policy. Where as Para 3.2 suggests that all a child needs to do in order to be fully covered by the policy is have their parent's consent.

Does anyone have any insight into this?

Also the link to the above could use an update - new version as of 1 Jan 2007:
http://www.fsco.gov.on.ca/english/forms/autoforms/endorsement/OAP1_23-10-2006.pdf
...same document on ontarioinsurance.com:
http://ontarioinsurance.com/english/forms/autoforms/endorsement/OAP1_23-10-2006.pdf

[Wild Weasel]

Your insurance company must be aware of any licensed drivers living in your household. That's where things like secondary or occasional drivers come into play.

If you don't live with your parents, then you don't need to be listed on their policy. If you DO live with your parents though, and aren't listed, and need to make a claim, then they would be in violation of the policy for not having told the company about you, and the claim could be denied.

[TheLouch]

That makes no sense what so ever ... So let me get this straight - those who live in the same household have to pay an extra $100-150 a month premium to be listed as a second driver, where as those who live on their own are able to receive the exact same coverage benefits without paying a dime?

[Skarbro]

That makes no sense what so ever ... So let me get this straight - those who live in the same household have to pay an extra $100-150 a month premium to be listed as a second driver, where as those who live on their own are able to receive the exact same coverage benefits without paying a dime?
Occasional drivers have to pay extra? I can only speak from experience on this, but I know of a few insurance companies that do not charge extra for listed occasional drivers. The vehicle premium is normally tied to the driving record of the principle driver without any surcharges for occasional drivers.

EDIT: I guess they do charge a little extra:


Consider gaining experience as a named occasional driver under the insurance policy of a parent or guardian, rather than as a principal driver of your own vehicle. Premiums for young, occasional drivers are much lower than premiums for young, principal drivers.

I suppose it has to do with the predictabilty of the exposure. In general, they do not expect you to lend your car out to someone that has no experience like a new occasional driver in your household.

BTW, thanks. I've updated the OAP1 link.

[Wild Weasel]

That makes no sense what so ever ... So let me get this straight - those who live in the same household have to pay an extra $100-150 a month premium to be listed as a second driver, where as those who live on their own are able to receive the exact same coverage benefits without paying a dime?

That's correct. As Skarbro said, it's expected that people living with you will have regular access to your car, therefore the risk has to be considered when writing the premium.

[TheLouch]

I guess they do charge a little extra

I suppose it has to do with the predictabilty of the exposure. In general, they do not expect you to lend your car out to someone that has no experience like a new occasional driver in your household.

Actually it's hardly a "little extra" - when I was first starting out driving I was listed as an occasional driver on my dad's insurance, and I was paying $150 a month - 30 bucks more than what he was paying as the primary driver ... and that was 10 years ago, so I can only imagine how much that'd cost now days.

What I find really odd however, is that I could've moved out across the street, used those $150/mth on rent instead, still used my dad's car as much as I would've living at home, and would've been completely legal to drive without paying as much as a cent for insurance? See, that is what I find really strange.

[Wild Weasel]

That's correct. BUT, you would not have been building our own insurance history so when it came time for you to get your own car, you would have ended up paying much more.

Basically, if you're driving the car, you need to pay insurance. People aren't expected to lend their cars out regularly to people not living with them. It's a big risk to the insured because if they lend it out and something happens, it's their premiums that are going to go up. This expected minimal lending is already priced into every policy.

[Krisekca]

Does "2Way insurance" cover shot tranny ? or stuff like this ... ?
Is there a good insurance that you can buy and will cover stuff like this ?

[Wild Weasel]

Are you thinking about an extended warranty? Insurance doesn't cover break-downs. It only covers damage caused by mishaps. If you drive over a raised manhole cover that rips through your tranny (assuming you're not lowered) then insurance should cover it. If the tranny just breaks on it's own, then they wouldn't.

What's this "2way" think you're referring to?

[matt9]

This question 'probably' has been addressed before but 50% of the people on this forum has lowered their car? How are they getting insured?

[Noisy Crow]

This question 'probably' has been addressed before but 50% of the people on this forum has lowered their car? How are they getting insured?

It's pretty simple, actually:

You phone up your insurance company and tell them that you have bought a new car and want to insure it. The insurance company asks a bunch of weird questions (such as, "do you have any stickers on the car" ) and sends you a bunch of stuff in the mail.

You throw the stuff in a drawer, hop in your car and head over to Jimmy's to get it lowered.

Two months later you get rear-ended/hit a patch of ice/get hit by a flying truck wheel and the insurance company refuses to cover the damages because your car is 1.2" lower than stock.

[Wild Weasel]

That's pretty much how it works. About the only way to legitimately get insured with most major mods (such as lowering) is through facility. Most regular insurers will not insure modded cars.

[matt9]

So out of everyone on this forum, either:
- they never told the insurance company, so they could get screwed in the future
- they are insured through facility (how much is that?)

[Wild Weasel]

I know at least one person here posted that they were covered through facility. Facility rates vary based on all sorts of factors just like regular insurance. They're just generally higher because they're meant for high risk clients.

For everyone else... well... plenty of people like myself don't have mods that would make them uninsurable. They don't care about cosmetic things like minor body mods and rims and stuff.

And certainly plenty are hoping their insurers never find out what they have.

[matt9]

Well me personally, I get see them caring about anything small - lights, spoilers, tints - this sort of thing.

Wheels are another thing, but if I never told them about it, I would just assume they won't replace them if something happens to them.

As for lowering your car 1.2", I could see that being a problem but it's SO MINOR.

[EvilEric]

Now the real question is how many people have taken stuff out because of insurance reasons? This reminds of warranty conversations.

[evilempire]

good info
maybe this was mentioned already but
question: if both parties involved in the accident agree not to report and settle on the spot with cash
is it illegal?

[gsquared]

good info
maybe this was mentioned already but
question: if both parties involved in the accident agree not to report and settle on the spot with cash
is it illegal?

No, it's not illegal if you don't report. It's perfectly fine to have a private settlement.

[1337trix]

i'm lowered, got hit - repair guy took pics of the car and sent it off to insurance and nobody said jack....

dont wrap your car around a pole and you wont get bothered

[blankets3]

i want to turbo my 3 but would i have to tell insurance?


I was told that if i do it and didnt tell them and smashed my car up, they could null/void my insurance


anyone know about this?

[JashiK]

i want to turbo my 3 but would i have to tell insurance?


I was told that if i do it and didnt tell them and smashed my car up, they could null/void my insurance


anyone know about this?

they will void coverage for non-disclosure of modifications.

[dhlwtu]

Always disclose any mods. Otherwise it wont be covered!

[GTS]

There's always a catch-22 to modding cars.

You disclose mods to insurance companies: they increase rates or deny coverage/policy.

You don't disclose mods: assuming nothing happens, you're okay. However, if something does happen, you risk denial of claim and cancellation of policy for non-disclosure.

There are certain ways about it, it just depends on one's risk threshold.

[Alex2000]

No, it's not illegal if you don't report. It's perfectly fine to have a private settlement.
Thanks! wanted to know the same.

[Hoodzy]

Not sure if it's the same Alberta/Ontario.. but it is required by law to report anything over 1000 dollars worth of damage to the police. Insurance company doesn't matter...

[Alex2000]

I thought the limit was anything over $3000??
Not sure if it's the same Alberta/Ontario.. but it is required by law to report anything over 1000 dollars worth of damage to the police. Insurance company doesn't matter...

[rzapata]

I believe it's $700 and above in Ontario, it has to be reported to the police... Don't quote me on this though, just getting this info on top of my head......

[cwp_sedan]

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/news/local/article/25692--when-do-you-have-to-go-a-collision-reporting-centre-what-happens-to-your-insurance


What Do You Report?

If the damage is minimal - under $1,000 - police don't need to be involved. You only need to involve them if:
There's a death or serious injury.
The accident is a result of criminal behaviour (like impaired driving or a stolen car).
The mishap involves a T.T.C. bus or streetcar or a federal or provincial vehicle.
The accident involves someone who's not insured or whose license is already under suspension.
It involves a vehicle or truck transporting dangerous goods, like chemicals.
There's serious property damage.

[mazidane]

Anyone know if Collision Reporting Centres (CRC) send a copy of Collision Reports to your insurance company? Just curious because I read that CRC's are funded in part by insurance companies.

[Darkice]

$3000 wow thats way to high! lol to answer some questions below , i recently got into a accident my car was a complete write off, i had a CAI and a full cat back exhaust as well with upgraded brakes ,subs , touch screen deck and a painted lip kit.... however insurance hasnt said anything to me about it, some ppl say mods are illegal


I thought the limit was anything over $3000??

[Dina]

I have a general question(s) about Ontario teen insurance. My 17 year old son just got his G2 licence. He lives with me...his mom and brother (who has his own insurance and own car.) If I'm to put my year old 17 under my insurance policy so he can be a very occasional driver in my car, does this mean he can drive anyone else's vehicle that is not at our address with this (my) insurance? You see....this is the scenario...his father who lives elsewhere will be letting him drive his car whenever and however (if you know what I mean) he wants. If he should get into an accident with his father's car will my insurance be punished (increase) since he's covered under my insurance, which is allowing him to be covered for driving his father's car?
Another scenario....if my son is out one night with a friend and ends up driving the friend's car...who's insurance will be implicated if an accident should occur...the friend/or his parent, (since they are allowing him to drive their car,) mine or both ? Yes I'm paraniod...I have a teenager! Thanks so much in advance for any insite you may give me!

[peterm15]

I have a general question(s) about Ontario teen insurance. My 17 year old son just got his G2 licence. He lives with me...his mom and brother (who has his own insurance and own car.) If I'm to put my year old 17 under my insurance policy so he can be a very occasional driver in my car, does this mean he can drive anyone else's vehicle that is not at our address with this (my) insurance? You see....this is the scenario...his father who lives elsewhere will be letting him drive his car whenever and however (if you know what I mean) he wants. If he should get into an accident with his father's car will my insurance be punished (increase) since he's covered under my insurance, which is allowing him to be covered for driving his father's car?
Another scenario....if my son is out one night with a friend and ends up driving the friend's car...who's insurance will be implicated if an accident should occur...the friend/or his parent, (since they are allowing him to drive their car,) mine or both ? Yes I'm paraniod...I have a teenager! Thanks so much in advance for any insite you may give me!

Ok. As far as I understand.

If he gets into an accident, it will affect your insurance no matter what. Even if it wasn't your car involved. This being because he then becomes a higher insurance risk so he will have to pay more.

If he drives a friends car, and something happens. The friends insurance should cover it BUT that insurance company has the ability to go after your sons insurance for the repair as well.

And if I'm correct. Your insuring him under your vehicle and his fathers vehicle? ( I don't even know if you can do that but I'm sure it's possible)

At the end of the day, as long as he's under your policy, if he is in an at fault accident, both his and your insurance will be affected.


NOW.
If he drives like a total ass and gets a few tics, a couple accidents. YOUR insurance company can refuse to insure YOU as you live in the same household. They can also raise your rate because he lives with you and has access ( even in non legal ways) to your car.

A few years ago I actually had to say I was renting my house to get a break on insurance as my dad was high risk. His high risk status affected my insurance by 1200 a year. Just because we were under the same roof.

I'm sure there is more people on here that can clarify better. I'm just going off of what happened to me in a similar situation. Insurance is a tricky thing.

[Dina]

Thanks so much Peter for your lengthly reply. No, the father will not be putting him under his insurance since our son lives with me. So if I include my 17 year old in my insurance, I would be liable even if he's driving his father's car and gets into an accident?

Ok another question...my insurance company told me my son and I will have to sign a waiver (if we don't get him that coverage to the insurance) stating that he will, under no circumstances drive my car, nor his brother's car (who also lives with us and gets his insurance through my company.) Ok....here's another scenario...let's say we sign the waiver and do not get coverage for him and let's say....he's a real ass...and takes my or his brother's car without permission and get's into an accident...then what happens? Since he's under 18 years of age could I get sued because he's my responsiblity?? Or is it 16 that parents are no longer legally responsible for that kind of stuff??? Or does that have no bearing at all? Thanks again?

[cwp_sedan]

Thanks so much Peter for your lengthly reply. No, the father will not be putting him under his insurance since our son lives with me. So if I include my 17 year old in my insurance, I would be liable even if he's driving his father's car and gets into an accident?

Ok another question...my insurance company told me my son and I will have to sign a waiver (if we don't get him that coverage to the insurance) stating that he will, under no circumstances drive my car, nor his brother's car (who also lives with us and gets his insurance through my company.) Ok....here's another scenario...let's say we sign the waiver and do not get coverage for him and let's say....he's a real ass...and takes my or his brother's car without permission and get's into an accident...then what happens? Since he's under 18 years of age could I get sued because he's my responsiblity?? Or is it 16 that parents are no longer legally responsible for that kind of stuff??? Or does that have no bearing at all? Thanks again?

In this case there would probably be two options/results.

One, you say you let him take the car and they cancel your insurance and charge/sue you. You would then find it very difficult to get insurance in the future and your premium will be much, much higher.

Two, you follow the agreement that you signed and tell them that you didn't allow him to take the car and claim the vehicle as stolen. He would then be charged and responsible for the theft. Ultimately it could come back to bite you in terms of covering the loss/damage and possible fines.

Ultimately I would talk to your insurance company even anonymously to find out what the policy is. Everything on here can be good information but isn't always 100% accurate.


When I was under my parents insurance as an occasional driver I got into an accident. It affected their policy until I got my own car and policy. At that time it was transferred to my policy and their rates went back down.

[Dina]

Thank you CWP....my mom was right...when the kids are small...there are small problems to deal with. When they are big...there's bigger problems to worry about.

[Sebi]

Quick question regarding the addition of an occasional driver...

Is it mandatory to add my wife to the insurance policy as an occasional driver? What happens if she drivers without being on the policy? I'm asking because she got her G2 a few months ago, but the insurance company wants to increase my policy by $500/year.. which is basically a 40% increase.

Thanks!

[peterm15]

Quick question regarding the addition of an occasional driver...

Is it mandatory to add my wife to the insurance policy as an occasional driver? What happens if she drivers without being on the policy? I'm asking because she got her G2 a few months ago, but the insurance company wants to increase my policy by $500/year.. which is basically a 40% increase.

Thanks!

For $500/year I'd just add her. Well worth the lack of hassle if something does happen.

[3zilla]

great thread ... just had a deer incident myself in my old 3. over 6 years without incident just got new insurance quote for my new 3 and my premiums actually dropped a little.

[CloudPump]

I have a general question(s) about Ontario teen insurance. My 17 year old son just got his G2 licence. He lives with me...his mom and brother (who has his own insurance and own car.) If I'm to put my year old 17 under my insurance policy so he can be a very occasional driver in my car, does this mean he can drive anyone else's vehicle that is not at our address with this (my) insurance? You see....this is the scenario...his father who lives elsewhere will be letting him drive his car whenever and however (if you know what I mean) he wants. If he should get into an accident with his father's car will my insurance be punished (increase) since he's covered under my insurance, which is allowing him to be covered for driving his father's car?
Another scenario....if my son is out one night with a friend and ends up driving the friend's car...who's insurance will be implicated if an accident should occur...the friend/or his parent, (since they are allowing him to drive their car,) mine or both ? Yes I'm paraniod...I have a teenager! Thanks so much in advance for any insite you may give me!

I'm a Registered Ontario Insurance Broker, so I'll clear this up.

All licensed driver's in your household need to be declared to your insurance company. If a declared driver is insured elsewhere (IE: on their own policy with their own vehicle) your insurance company will likely just note this on your file. If they do not have insurance elsewhere, they will need to be listed as a secondary or occasional operatator on your vehicle. For G2 or G licensed drivers over the age of 25 with no tickets and no accidents this will have no bearing on your insurance rate (9 times out of 10, this is not cast in stone, but I'm not going to get into very specific scenario's here). For G2 or G licensed drivers under the age of 25 who are male this will generate an occasional or secondary driver premium for which you will have to pay extra. For G2 or G licensed drivers who are female this will generate a (lesser) occasional operator premium (9 times out of 10, there are some companies who simply do not charge for female occ. operators).

Now if your occasional operator has tickets or accidents this can have a very adverse effect on your insurance. There are different limits for how many tickets or accidents are "acceptable" (I use that word very loosely) depending on the number of years licensed and the class of license (G2's get almost no leeway).

If your occasional operator has more tickets or accidents than acceptable by your insurer, you may be forced out of your insurance company and into a high-risk carrier. To avoid this, you may choose to use and OPCF 28a form to exclude the driver from your policy. This will prevent the "bad" driver from being rated against your policy, but also has the consequence of preventing this person from operating your vehicle under ANY circumstance, even emergencies. Violations of this excluded driver agreement have severe financial and potential criminal penalties.

For your specific scenario:

From what you've described, your son needs to be insured on either his father's policy or BOTH his father's and your policy. If he is allowed to drive his father's vehicle "whenever and however" he wants, he is an occasional operator even if he's not living in that home. If he is listed on his father's policy, you can potentially avoid having to list him on your policy as long as he is not a frequent occasional operator of your vehicle. If he does operate your vehicle on occasion, then you should list him on your policy as well.

If he is listed on just your policy and not his father's and is operating the father's car "whenever/however" and an accident occurs, there are two potential outcomes:

1) If the accident is minor, the insurance company (father's) will likely just pay out. Your insurance will be impacted because your occasional operator has just had their driving record negatively impacted. This will not effect you until the policy renews.

2) If the accident is major and the insurance company is on the hook for a large sum of money, they will investigate very thoroughly and may be able to prove that your son was an unlisted occasional operator of his father's vehicle. If so, they will deny the claim for material misrepresentation, they may (but likely won't) proceed with insurance fraud charges against his father, and your son will be unprotected from any potential lawsuits from the injured third party.

If your son is operating a friend's car and has an accident and he is insured on your policy. Your policy will be impacted as previously described (a driver on your policy just had their driving record get worse, - won't impact you until renewal). If he is not insured on your policy (or anywhere else for that matter) the accident will hurt the friend's policy until your son gains insurance of his own (or through you/the father,etc.). Once your son has insurance of his own where he is being rated for the accident, the friend may submit proof to his insurance company showing that your son is being rated for the claim and they will stop rating the friend for the accident.

-Geoff

[CloudPump]

Quick question regarding the addition of an occasional driver...

Is it mandatory to add my wife to the insurance policy as an occasional driver? What happens if she drivers without being on the policy? I'm asking because she got her G2 a few months ago, but the insurance company wants to increase my policy by $500/year.. which is basically a 40% increase.

Thanks!

Unless your wife is insured on her own policy with her own vehicle, then yes, it is mandatory, by law, to inform your insurance company of her newly licensed status and list her on your policy.

If she drives without being a listed driver and is involved in a claim, your insurance can/may be voided (void is a legal term that means it never existed). If your policy is voided, you will be refunded whatever premium you have been paid for the year, and then your wife will be charged with "operate motor vehicle - no insurance" and you will be charged with "vehicle owner without insurance". You may also be charged with insurance fraud.

That's the worst case.

Likely, your claim will be denied, your policy will be canceled and you will have a charge of "Material Misrepresentation" leveled against your insurance.

-Geoff

[ssolidd]

Hi guys this is really informative and thanks for bringing it up I have question regarding 2nd driver. I sometimes let my gf use my car when im at work (although I hate it... >.< ) can I declare it to my insurance as my second driver and do I have to pay something or no? (note: I have already paid my car insurance premium for one year already in advance).

[jaynsue13]

I am an Allstate insurance agent. If your GF is living in your household and she does not have insurance elsewhere then you are required to add her to your policy as a second driver. If she is insured elsewhere with another company then with your consent she is able to drive your vehicle without being on the policy. Hope this helps

[ssolidd]

I am an Allstate insurance agent. If your GF is living in your household and she does not have insurance elsewhere then you are required to add her to your policy as a second driver. If she is insured elsewhere with another company then with your consent she is able to drive your vehicle without being on the policy. Hope this helps

She live with her parents and she doesnt have an auto insurance only me but she got G liscense.

[orGhatcH]

Great info here. These scenario based answers help alot cause they are easier to understand. :)

Thank you guys!

[S.F.W.]

She live with her parents and she doesnt have an auto insurance only me but she got G liscense.

Is she on her parents policy as an occasional driver ?

[bubba1983]

Good info....
Now heres my q...
Im to be married soon this yr..which is my best route?
We both have our own cars and own insurance thru diff csrriers....were both 30 and up
Keep our sep carriers? Merge into one? Add each other to ea h others policy?
Go!

[ssolidd]

Is she on her parents policy as an occasional driver ?

No she doesnt have anything at all she just want to drive my car :(

[Wisecraker]

Good info....
Now heres my q...
Im to be married soon this yr..which is my best route?
We both have our own cars and own insurance thru diff csrriers....were both 30 and up
Keep our sep carriers? Merge into one? Add each other to ea h others policy?
Go!

It depends because some insurance companies give multi car discounts. There is no harm in you both going to the same coverage provider. Just make sure that there are no penalties for cancelling your policy, or find out when your policy ends and wait till then to cancel. In the meantime you can shop around. I found my amazing insurance rate through Kanetix.ca

[CloudPump]

No she doesnt have anything at all she just want to drive my car :(

She is required to be listed on her parents' policy. They are flirting with disaster.

-Geoff

[ssolidd]

She is required to be listed on her parents' policy. They are flirting with disaster.

-Geoff

Her parent doesnt have any policy... I just want to know if I declare my gf as second driver would it cost me alot or nothing at all?

[CloudPump]

Her parent doesnt have any policy... I just want to know if I declare my gf as second driver would it cost me alot or nothing at all?

If she is 25 or older with a G2 or better licence, no tickets and no accidents it shouldn't cost you a thing with most insurance companies.

If she's under 25 with tickets & accidents, you'll see a premium.

Either way, if you want her driving your car, you need her on your policy.

-Geoff

[JPJPJP]

Her parent doesnt have any policy... I just want to know if I declare my gf as second driver would it cost me alot or nothing at all?

If she gets into an accident, it would be rated on your own personal insurance, because you gave her consent to drive your car. It would be rated against you, until your girlfriend has insurance of her own, either being a primary or secondary driver. Reason being, any accidents need to be rated against someone. You should listen to CloudPump, and just add her to your insurance. It can and will, as he said, be disastrous on your part. Just out of curiosity, do her parents not drive?

[ssolidd]

JPJPJP haha yes her father/mom cannot drive not even speak good engrish : )

[monkeyyy]

In terms of percentage, what type of increase can I see at my first at-fault accident? Clean record otherwise.

I've been insured with Meloche Monnex for 6-7 years as an occasional/secondary driver under my parents. I've only recently (~2 months ago) switched to my own plan since I purchased my 3. There was an at-fault against my parents at one point of time during the time I was insured under them, will this effect me at all?

Thanks.

[RetroLite]

Hey guys Im turning 25 in October and I was wondering if the insurance company will lower my premium down if I call them after my birthday and tell them I am 25. Or would they make me wait until the Renewal date? Has anyone been through this?

[Hyperion]

Renewal seems more plausible

[peterm15]

Mine didn't get lowered until I switched insurance companies. Paid the same amount from before and after 25.

[CloudPump]

Hey guys Im turning 25 in October and I was wondering if the insurance company will lower my premium down if I call them after my birthday and tell them I am 25. Or would they make me wait until the Renewal date? Has anyone been through this?

On Renewal.

Insuance is a contract to provide you with a service (insurance) in echange for a consideration (money) for a period of time (generally one year). The contract is based upon the terms and conditions agreed upon at the inception of the contract. The contract is not renegotiated until renewal.

-Geoff

[CloudPump]

In terms of percentage, what type of increase can I see at my first at-fault accident? Clean record otherwise.

I've been insured with Meloche Monnex for 6-7 years as an occasional/secondary driver under my parents. I've only recently (~2 months ago) switched to my own plan since I purchased my 3. There was an at-fault against my parents at one point of time during the time I was insured under them, will this effect me at all?

Thanks.

If you have been clean for 6-7 years you should have been offered an accident waiver with your policy. This would mean that (depending on the wording of your company's accident waiver) either your first accident is completely forgiven or that your 6* driving record is preserved upon your first at fault loss.

This would mean that you wouldn't see an increase due to an accident.

If you had an at-fault on your parents' policy then that *should* have followed you to your new policy and then I'm not clear on your claims of a "clean record"

-Geoff

[CloudPump]

Mine didn't get lowered until I switched insurance companies. Paid the same amount from before and after 25.

It's likely/possible that you were insured with Wawanesa. They will rate you as if you're 25 from the start of your policy if your 25th birthday occurs during the policy period.

-Geoff

[RetroLite]

Awesome thank you for the input and taking the time to answer! Very informative!

[gabsdt]

Thanks for the info

[Hyperion]

Thanks for the infoThanks for bumping a post from 6 years ago.

Sent from my SM-G955W using Tapatalk

[HellIan33]

absolutely yes

[ZoomZoomZda]

Do you guys inform your insurance company after getting a speeding ticket? This year I got a minor speed ticket with no points deducted and my insurance is up for renewal soon. The renewal letter they sent me shows that I have zero violation which means they don't know about my speeding ticket. Should I tell them?

[S.F.W.]

Do you guys inform your insurance company after getting a speeding ticket? This year I got a minor speed ticket with no points deducted and my insurance is up for renewal soon. The renewal letter they sent me shows that I have zero violation which means they don't know about my speeding ticket. Should I tell them?No. Say nothing. It is up to them to pull a new abstract.