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Fobio
05-30-2008, 10:37 AM
How many are running HP+?

Have you bedded your pads yourself? or you think your mechanic did it? how many track event is a set good for?

and

do they squeek and squeal?

Elder_MMHS
06-10-2008, 01:40 AM
I now run HP+ on all four corners. I bedded them in myself.

They squeal in a variety of scenarios, but not as loud as I thought they'd get.
I don't notice them much when I have the windows up or have music playing. I can hear them with the windows down. I have been driven in a Miata and 240SX with HP+ and they squealed much louder than my car.

For me, it is livable. They don't squeal on most light-moderate applications at low-medium speeds. Getting the brakes warmed up may be a factor too.

Elder_MMHS
06-11-2008, 08:03 PM
I posted too soon. As I'm using the brakes more regularly, they are squealing more frequently as well. It's almost as if they don't squeal when cold, but only when warmed up.

Anyways, I'm observing. It's noticeable, but I haven't gotten annoyed. :)

Fobio
06-11-2008, 11:51 PM
+1 on the updates. pls keep them coming!

Marsh
06-13-2008, 03:57 PM
I run HP+ on my '90 miata. They squeal, but not quite as much as when they were new. It also seems that going to a lapping day and getting them good and hot gets them noisy again. It's a known thing in the miata community that HP+ squeal and there's nothing to be done about it.

That said I had them on my Prelude and they didn't squeal as much on that car.

Elder_MMHS
06-29-2008, 06:11 PM
I just returned from a 3000km road trip with the HP+. They are squealing more loudly, frequently and easily as the ambient temperature goes up.

I was also carrying about 500 - 550 lbs of additional 'cargo' (people, luggage) and I noticed the rear brakes make a different noise when the car is loaded. It sounds like a medium hum (think big rig truck brakes, or the mating call of a whale :P ) rather than the typical high-pitched, "metal-on-metal" squeal from the fronts that you'd liken to say, subway or bus brakes.

I must admit, while I still think they're tolerable, I'm starting to get pretty conscious about using my brakes around my neighbourhood when I return home late at night. I feel kind of guilty making the brake squeals while most people are sound asleep.

Fobio
10-09-2008, 08:44 AM
a little off topic but still relevant...

as the season draws to a close, I'm starting the mental review of some of my experiences...particularly about braking. My first event out, with the stock pads and rotors to Dunnville, the brakes were fan-f'ing-tastic...but alas, I still boiled the fluid and apparently glazed my brakes. So on goes the SS brakelines, Elf Frelub, and HPS pads (thinking that HP+ is too aggressive and perhaps annoying for street use). Leaving my mechanic, I noticed noo improvement at all but this is just street driving. Within that week I take it to the track.

Again, no improvement at the track in terms of bite or feel but the brakes are more consistent throughout the session. I'm all for consistency and stuff...but let's see what these brakes can do. So I push a bit harder and harder...and yeah, I did end up boiling them...but I suppose the pads are "alright"...

So the quest continues into the off season...I want to find a pad/fluid combo, that will work well with the stock rotors. The stock brakes "feel" was great...will I have to go HP+ to get the bite back while improving longevity and consistency? Will I have to swap pads between events to have good brakes?

maplephin
10-09-2008, 09:03 AM
Fobio, did you change out the rotors when you changed the pads?

I know my stock rotors wear was inconsistent because the original pads had degraded and broke apart. When we removed the pads about 1" around the outside of the pad was gone. This caused the new pads (HPS) to not have proper contact with the rotor.

As we talked about my pedal was very, very mushy at TMP and especially after. My mechanic did a bleed, no air in the lines, so he clamped off the front brake lines and voila, my pedal felt like new again. (Don't think that would be possible with the steel lines)

So, diagnoses was that the pads did not sit true on the rotors. With new rotors it feels much better, not perfect, but better. Since the new pads where used on the old rotors, I think it might take a bit for them to get up to their full coverage on the rotor.

I spoke with Raymond (?) who ran the Prelude. He said that it is good to bleed the lines after new pads on old rotors have broken in. This will bring the peddle feel up even higher.

So, do I blame the pads yet, not sure. Will have to give it a bit to break in.
I did learn that stock rotors are not expensive ($70+) and I wish I had changed them the first time around. Think I would have been much happier:)

cereal83
10-09-2008, 09:42 AM
I wouldn't use HP + for track. I have EBC Yellow which are suppose to be race but after 5-6 laps, you can def feel the brakes starting to feel mushy. If I were you, I would go with something a bit better then HP+ and get something that can handle high heat also.

Last time at the track, I ran hard for 5 laps and came off along with a dude with a Subaru beside me. He had Brembo calipers rotors and I dunno what pads but when I got off, my pads where on fire and after I blew they fire out, I used a heat gun to measure the temp of the brakes. They were at like 520 front and 480 in the back. The dude with the brembo was fine and he measured like 700 in the fron and 620 in the back and he said he could still drive on the road and the pads didn't have to be heated to work. I think they were CC-X.
Moral of the story, buy better stuff and you seem to track alot so you can take advantage of it. Change the fluid also to something that can handle high heat. Also when people speak of brake noise, its not necessarily squealing. Like if I drive on a bridge you can year what sounds to be like a helicopter because of my slots in the rotors. I have no squealing but it does make noise. If traffic with the windows down and no music, you can hear it for sure but turn up the radio and you won't hear it at all.

Also, if you have new pads, I would bed the rotors at a shop. Maybe you spend more now but less down the road.

Fobio
10-09-2008, 11:49 AM
dude...do you know of the fitment/part number of the Endless CC-X for MS3's?

They're like $400 a set tho?!

Kevin@nextmod
10-09-2008, 12:09 PM
They should be about $300 a set tax in for the speed 3. But i'd go with the better, CCR for track and motul Dot 5.1 or Dot 4 brake fluid. I'll be getting my BBK and fluid, and a few sets of pads next year for the track. But for sure.... you'll never regret using endless CCX or CCR. Amazing on the track.

cereal83
10-09-2008, 12:21 PM
I will see what I can find. It might be around $400 but that's for front and back. It is expensive but its a great pad. You can check with SSG as I am sure he sells this stuff.

Fobio
10-09-2008, 12:23 PM
They should be about $300 a set tax in for the speed 3. But i'd go with the better, CCR for track and motul Dot 5.1 or Dot 4 brake fluid. I'll be getting my BBK and fluid, and a few sets of pads next year for the track. But for sure.... you'll never regret using endless CCX or CCR. Amazing on the track.

Yeah...after some reading, the CC-R's are even better. Where are you sourcing them? Is there a catalogue? nothing on their website...


I will see what I can find. It might be around $400 but that's for front and back. It is expensive but its a great pad. You can check with SSG as I am sure he sells this stuff.

M3F has a list of applicable pads for the MS3, but nothing listed for Endless...

Please clarify...are they usually $3 - 400 for a set of fronts? Or a set of 4 (front and back) for ~$400?

Kevin@nextmod
10-09-2008, 12:24 PM
Its usually $300 just for the fronts.

cereal83
10-09-2008, 01:42 PM
I am not sure exactly of the price but they are a bit more expensive.

http://endlessusa.com/appguide/Brake%20Pads.htm is the website for application guide and I guess they don't make it for the ms3 which is weird but I would still ask a store just to make sure

///M
10-09-2008, 02:27 PM
I have tracked extensively with HP+ on my Mazda3 (2 sets) and BMW (1 set). They do squeal quite a bit and dust a whole lot, but I have yet to use a streetable pad that offers so much initial bite. They are hard on rotors though, and the dust is very difficult to wash off once if you let it stay there for too long.

I have since switched to Ferodo DS2500s, but haven't had a chance to try them on the track yet. Less initial bite, but supposedly better at high temperatures and less prone to overheating. Also, they're a lot quieter and do not dust nearly as much.

Kevin@nextmod
10-09-2008, 10:17 PM
I am not sure exactly of the price but they are a bit more expensive.

http://endlessusa.com/appguide/Brake%20Pads.htm is the website for application guide and I guess they don't make it for the ms3 which is weird but I would still ask a store just to make sure
You can actually check to see if the Mazda 6 or the RX8 have the same part number or the same size pad. You might be able to buy those to fit on your car.
The good thing about hondas are my car, the pads are the same as the RSX type S, and then S2000

Elder_MMHS
10-13-2008, 05:09 PM
I wouldn't use HP + for track. I have EBC Yellow which are suppose to be race but after 5-6 laps, you can def feel the brakes starting to feel mushy. If I were you, I would go with something a bit better then HP+ and get something that can handle high heat also.

Last time at the track, I ran hard for 5 laps and came off along with a dude with a Subaru beside me. He had Brembo calipers rotors and I dunno what pads but when I got off, my pads where on fire and after I blew they fire out, I used a heat gun to measure the temp of the brakes. They were at like 520 front and 480 in the back. The dude with the brembo was fine and he measured like 700 in the fron and 620 in the back and he said he could still drive on the road and the pads didn't have to be heated to work. I think they were CC-X.
Moral of the story, buy better stuff and you seem to track alot so you can take advantage of it. Change the fluid also to something that can handle high heat. Also when people speak of brake noise, its not necessarily squealing. Like if I drive on a bridge you can year what sounds to be like a helicopter because of my slots in the rotors. I have no squealing but it does make noise. If traffic with the windows down and no music, you can hear it for sure but turn up the radio and you won't hear it at all.

Also, if you have new pads, I would bed the rotors at a shop. Maybe you spend more now but less down the road.

I don't see how your experience with EBC Yellow relates to HP+, except that saying a streetable pad will not perform at 100% for a track day. I think that much is always a given with any streetable pad.

If there's any pad you can daily drive and take to the track, you will always be making a compromise. When you compromise, you need to modify your driving style to manage the trade-off (in this case, heat) accordingly. I've yet to see a product that doesn't eat rotors and have a broad operating temperature range that accommodates daily driving to full-on track days.

What brake fluid were you running and when was the last time you changed it prior to the track day?

Fuman
10-14-2008, 04:41 PM
What brake fluid were you running and when was the last time you changed it prior to the track day?

+1 I suspect its brake fluid as well.
OEM brake pads holds up for me at DDT during a 10-15 minute session. Brake fluid gave up on my first.