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starscream
02-03-2010, 02:53 PM
My MS3 PSI/Piasini Reflash Tune Impressions

Here were the stock numbers: 240whp/253wtq
Here are the reflashed numbers: 276whp/316wtq
As seen as a increase: 36whp/63wtq

There were all done on a Dynapack Dyno, and from what I know it reads lower then a Dynojet, but higher
then a Mustang dyno. Its more of a happy medium. I prefer it because 1) I dont waste tires on the dyno,
2) no slipping 3) no loading the suspension, strapping it down and having the wiggles and 4) its more
accurate in the sense that the reading it taken from the hub rather then transitioning from the tires. In
either case there are gains to be seen.

The dynos were taken with the hood up, and a few pulls were with the fan on however the blasted thing was
too loud and strong (never seen a dyno fan like that), it could blow Dorothy out of Kansas so we had it
off most of the time.

The only engine-type mod on the car is the CPe CBE, and the CPe RMM (if that counts). So a relatively
speaking stock MS3.

The car drives amazingly! The powerband has been shifted up a bit, which I personally prefer as the peak
torque isnt in the 3000rpm range anymore. Shes smoother all round, just driving the car feels well
balanced and smooth on the pedal. When I romp on it (WOT) shes a different beast, I can see the traction
control freaking out in the upper RPMS and when I take off the DSC its amazing what the car feels like
now. Theres power all over in the map sorta speak, and its much less jerky when I am driving compared to
before.

The torque/boost limiters are gone in 1st and 2nd gear, as is the steering input limiters. I can tell you
when taking a turn and throttling it, its fun, much more fun then before with the car bogging or feeling
like your hitting a wall on power.

Boost has been increased to 18psi so about a 3psi increase, however the car ****en rips. Plain and simple
I need better tires now :( LOL. Driving the car around the city and on highways I feel comfortable in
every gear to press the gas a bit to get going, and if I need more power I downshift and WOT it. Power is
on instantly and boost rampup is nice. The throttle control on the car is much more responsive.
All in all, I am happy with the flash and it was totally worth it. I have been monitoring with my
dashhawk to see if theres any changes or worries to be watched (namely watching KR) and there has not
been. If I had known about this earlier, I woulda done the flash sooner/earlier. I would recommend the
flash and PSI Tuning to anyone. However it is important to note that this flash changes the stock ECU,
but the beauty is that the ECU will still learn and increase if you do mods, meaning that it reacts like
the stock ECU but better. BUT note that IS IT NOT for a BIG Turbo setup or for someone doing everything
under the sun. I am more of a set-it-and-forget-it type of person and I dont want to have the hassle of
separate tunes, or retuning constantly and more to point I would rather trust a tuner who has tuned
hundreds of cars and as well as a dozen MS3s then myself as I am no expert in tuning even though I grasp
what needs to be done. The ECU kept learning as the dyno pulls went on, each pull gave us an increase to
the point where we were getting consistent numbers.

I had gone recently to Quys for the informal MS3 meeting, and some of the members there were with me and I took them for a spin. I am sure they can vouch for how the car drives and reacts.

The dynos printer wasnt working so he took a screenshot for us and emailed it. I am still waiting for the
before and after on 1 graph shot, however I can give you the Final Dyno screenshot in the meantime

Dyno Video (before and after):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RfZqGDyvWA

Note: From what I understand the dyno calculates hub tq a different way and then you switch it to actual
wheel registered tq then the numbers make sense (you'll see 11xx wtq then the proper number) and as well
the bottom number is changed once the system processes the number after the pull. Incase you were
wondering why the number shows up after.

Dyno Screenshot
http://www.laleetsgarage.com/pics/photos/MS3/Dynos/MS3flashDYNOfinal.JPG

mleblond
02-03-2010, 02:58 PM
How much did you end up paying in total?

dadinho_nfg
02-03-2010, 03:06 PM
is this reflash done for non ms3?

Fobio
02-03-2010, 03:18 PM
those are good numbers for just a flash...the power delivery could be smoother tho. They did push your peak numbers to 4500rpm, so this is also good for safety as to keep the car from over-boosting in the danger zone of 3000 - 3500rpm...

but don't compare dyno's here, as you've done a baseline on the dynapak, and re-dyno'd on the same dynapak, it doesn't matter what dyno it is...you made 36whp/63wtq over stock...and that's all that matters.

starscream
02-03-2010, 03:18 PM
How much did you end up paying in total?
As according to the Flash Groupbuy w/ dyno
Reflash and dyno day (minimum 8 people required for the dyno day)
- Cost is $486.90 inclusive

I dont think that price will stay the same as it was a introductoary GB But PM PSI Tuning I am sure they can work something out if your interested


is this reflash done for non ms3?
Yeppers! check out their GB thread they have a stock non-MS3 tuned as well.

-cj-
02-03-2010, 03:21 PM
Impressive results Starscream.

Your stock numbers with a CBE seem right on the money (240-ish... My car did 233 bone stock on a Dynojet). I've been looking for comparisons between dynojet and a dynapack but it doesn't look like anyone has done back to back dynos unfortunately. I just did a run last night on the same dynapack as you and was left wondering how it stacked up against my previous run on a dynojet :(

optiklenz13
02-03-2010, 03:26 PM
good looking numbers you made there.

Mazda3X2
02-03-2010, 03:51 PM
Nice numbers, great write up and information there.

mleblond
02-03-2010, 04:48 PM
So you paid 500 for a pro tune. I just don't see this any better than a Cobb accessport or CPE-standback. I mean an ap will get you those gains + you can reflash and update your tune at no extra cost. On top you have a datalogger, Check CEL's and use it as a gauge.

No offense but these guys should look at using or developing a similar tool. I'm not saying these guys don't know what they are doing, I would gladly pay them as a pro tunner to make me a map for my access port, and honestly they could be making more money that way also.

As for NA mazda 3's there isnt much options in the first place, so yeah perma Flash your ECU. Or buy a seperate ECU from the scrap yard.

Mty Mous
02-03-2010, 05:14 PM
Actually that $483 included the dyno sessions, so he knows exactly how HIS car is running. According to the explanation I got, this reflash would easily compensate for an Intake and\or downpipe, so he doesn't need to get it re-flashed\re-tuned. But he can always do another dyno session to see how the AFR is across the board once said mods are done.

However if you were to go balls out with your mods, like building up your internals with custom Cams and what-not, then this reflahs isn't meant for that sorta setup.

The best part? You can drive this into the dealer anytime you want and not even sweat it ... that in itself is a HUGE plus in my eyes. :)

-cj-
02-03-2010, 06:10 PM
Actually I'd be careful taking a flashed car to the dealer. With the AP you can unmarry it, but you can't really do that without contacting PSI in this case.

I'm not trying to be negative, just a heads up. I love the fact there's a local tuner and I think we should totally support them...

Mty Mous
02-03-2010, 06:25 PM
Actually I'd think the dealer won't even know the difference cause there's no extra wires\harnesses or any other tell tale signs to say otherwise ...
I'd be more nervous if I had a mechanical mod (Intake\downpipe\cat-back\etc\etc\etc) than the reflash, cause that's in plain sight for anyone to see. But that's just me.

Oh, the best part, you don't have to worry about re-marrying the correct tune to the ECU once you pickup the car. As Ron Popeil would say "Set it, and forget it!" :)

-cj-
02-03-2010, 06:39 PM
You're right about that, there's less headaches for regular dealership visits. The problem is when they decide to upgrade your ECU because a new fix/update came out. :) Like I always remove my AP from the car when I visit the dealer and at that point my car is no different from a PSI flash or any other flashed car. The difference is I can go the extra step and unmarry it to keep the dealer from snooping around. The reason I worry about them 'snooping around' is cause they might notice the power after 5.5kRPM or 1st and 2nd gear restrictions removed, etc... It's just nice to have the ability to remove the flash if I needed to. But only AP offers that, these flashes that PSI is doing is inline with what CP-e does...

mleblond
02-03-2010, 06:54 PM
trust me, you blow up tomorrow and youll be happy to unmarry the tune from the ecu before the mazda wizards look for an excuse to void your warranty....

I would pay 500$ for a custom tune don't get me wrong, but id rather be able to do what i want to the map rather than have a dedicated ecu...

Fobio
02-03-2010, 07:06 PM
Let's put a stop to this vs Cobb AP bullshit right here....it is obvious that this is a flash, and the Cobb AP is not.

to say they are comparable is ignorance...without a flashing device...you're at the mercy of the vendor. No problem if you're ok with it, but Cobb AP it is not.

Launch control? Flat foot shifting? Data logging? Open loop/close loop transition change? Remap throttle response? Remap traction control? Adjust load specific to each gear? run and test multiple maps? Need I go on?

Starscream is obviously happy with his tune, and that's all that matters...if PSI's marketing is to take on the AP, its tunes need to address a lot more than the guys "with an intake and exhaust"...and yeah, a flashing device so I don't need to worry about Mazda flashing over my PSI tune would be important...

-cj-
02-03-2010, 07:15 PM
Not really trying to turn this into an AP vs PSI thing. I think it's awesome that a LOCAL company is supporting the platform. My comments were really meant as a headsup to Starscream more than anything. I'm paranoid running something I can easily remove from my car, I'd be even more paranoid with a dedicated flash. Like I said, the gains are impressive.

iGOzoom
02-03-2010, 07:17 PM
those gains are awesome!

Fobio
02-03-2010, 07:24 PM
Not really trying to turn this into an AP vs PSI thing. I think it's awesome that a LOCAL company is supporting the platform. My comments were really meant as a headsup to Starscream more than anything. I'm paranoid running something I can easily remove from my car, I'd be even more paranoid with a dedicated flash. Like I said, the gains are impressive.

=)

my comments were directed at Mty Mouse who is commenting on the PSI, and hyping up certain features that those with AP's would not be able to accept, such as dealer visits convenience, and that you need to rebuild your engine to take advantage of what the AP has to offer.

-cj-
02-03-2010, 07:35 PM
Ahh my bad. =)

Fobio
02-03-2010, 07:39 PM
just so everyone knows...I've driven starscream's car and the flash does provide significant gains over the stock car....CBE or not...it is a great option, and for the price, it's also a good alternative besides the existing solutions...

dadinho_nfg
02-03-2010, 07:40 PM
what should i type in the search to find the reflash for non speeds?

Fobio
02-03-2010, 07:41 PM
what should i type in the search to find the reflash for non speeds?

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?40699-Official-ECU-reflash-dyno-day-group-buy

3DEE
02-03-2010, 07:51 PM
Didn't Michael from PSI say that he's working on AP sort of a hand held device? If that's the case I'd be willing to get the PSI flash as you'd be able to flash back and forth, same as AP. These numbers are bigger stock than those of Cobb, no? And if his tune can really learn extra mods like intake and downpipe and such, then it would be really good. Plus we would be supporting a local shop.

Mty Mous
02-03-2010, 07:53 PM
=)

my comments were directed at Mty Mouse who is commenting on the PSI, and hyping up certain features that those with AP's would not be able to accept, such as dealer visits convenience, and that you need to rebuild your engine to take advantage of what the AP has to offer.


Yes, I agree that both items have their own Pros and Cons, to each their own I guess.
At the end of the day it really comes down to what YOU want out of YOUR car.

All I'm saying is that for a daily driven car with mild mods, this seems to make sense (atleast it does to me).

I don't know what I've "hyped" ... just speaking from what I've witnessed with my own eyes. I'm not gonna get into a pissing match over this tho...

edit: - BTW, what I meant by the "built engine ..." comment was that the Reflash wasn't meant for that extreme end (atleast from what I was told) ... it wasn't meant as a stab against COBB.

Fobio
02-03-2010, 08:04 PM
I'm not gonna get into a pissing match over this tho...

Let's discuss!

The biggest problem I would have with the set it and forget approach is that it relies heavily on the tuner. And as much as these are advertised as flashes, they are really individual tunes. So perhaps, the set it and forget it appraoch works for PSI cars, but it leaves a lot on the table considering:

1. They're tuning each car individually, and promise a reflash if you lose it...so they're saving YOUR flash.
2. To have this type of control, from the smoothness and driveability, I suspect they have a lot more control over the ECU due to the program they use.
3. To me, a flash is a flash. A tune is a tune. Not the same. They advertise this as a flash, but it's in fact a custom tune...which is cool...now while they're at it, can they eleborate if they can control the other stuff that I also care about...

Devil's in the details...personally, I'm very interested in how they're custom tuning each car and how they maintain a level of adaptability, like the stock tune. So if you have more to share, please do not let my shortness stop you...

As a AP guy, I have a feeling PSI is tuning with exactly what all of us are looking for: a software that reads every table the MS3 ECU has to offer...cuz right now, for me, an ideal tune isn't one just for power.

MajesticBlueNTO
02-03-2010, 09:25 PM
The best part? You can drive this into the dealer anytime you want and not even sweat it ... that in itself is a HUGE plus in my eyes. :)

all the dealer has to do is hook up the diagnostic tool to the obd2 port, take the car for a spin, go WOT, see boost PSI at 18 and know that it ain't stock. it's not exactly invisible to the dealership.

Starscream, impressive numbers! enjoy the ride :)

3DEE
02-03-2010, 10:05 PM
Shop foreman at Ontario Mazda thinks our cars run 12 psi.lol

Fobio
02-03-2010, 10:31 PM
There are currently 4 users browsing this thread. (4 members and 0 guests)

Fobio tuned3 wolverineottawa x_o_k_x

I see you trollin'
I'm readin'
And trollin' to try'n catch you postin' up!

=)

wolverineottawa
02-03-2010, 10:42 PM
its just interesting...

Fobio
02-03-2010, 10:48 PM
its just interesting...

How so? Care to share? =)

And how much for a custom tune? ;)

I'm serious about the last question and I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE ASKING.

wolverineottawa
02-03-2010, 10:57 PM
To be honest I will have to let Hackish answer the tech questions. We will eventually have a reflash unit (hand held). The tune are reg 550cdn but we have been getting a good number of pms and emails asking when the next one will be. Mazda is fairly new for us so as the market grows so will we. Since we have the raw data we can change anything we want. Issue is that takes time and money. Again as the market grows we will be expanding "features" as we go.

I am semi-trolling...lol...had the window up and was looking at a Mitu wiring diagram.

mleblond
02-03-2010, 11:37 PM
I just think if you guys get a accessport pro tuner license you could bank in more money and not have to reinvent the wheel. COBB already stopped supporting the ms3's so their tool in your hands could mean good $$ especially cause the closest place is like in new jersey for a custom pro tune...

MajesticBlueNTO
02-03-2010, 11:40 PM
I just think if you guys get a accessport pro tuner license you could bank in more money and not have to reinvent the wheel. COBB already stopped supporting the ms3's so their tool in your hands could mean good $$ especially cause the closest place is like in new jersey for a custom pro tune...

^this guy

+1

Fobio
02-03-2010, 11:48 PM
maybe the AP/ATR/ATP can't control everything...and PSI can? inquiring minds want to know...everyone's talking about fueling and ECU walls, what's PSI's take on it?

and again, this isn't about Cobb vs. PSI...we're Canadians...we're level-headed...we can and will pay for the best solution.

starscream
02-04-2010, 01:56 AM
***Prefixing this with 1) Big post is BIG! 2) If I seem like I am coming at you with guns blazing, I do apologize I am just having some good debate, and some of the 'on the other hand' type answers. I am more concerned with getting the right information out and trying to get peoples questions answered.***


So you paid 500 for a pro tune. I just don't see this any better than a Cobb accessport or CPE-standback. I mean an ap will get you those gains + you can reflash and update your tune at no extra cost. On top you have a datalogger, Check CEL's and use it as a gauge.

No offense but these guys should look at using or developing a similar tool. I'm not saying these guys don't know what they are doing, I would gladly pay them as a pro tunner to make me a map for my access port, and honestly they could be making more money that way also.


Its much better IMO. Cobb and the CPe Standback do not modify all the maps and NOR do they have access to all of them. I havent seen a single AP or SB make that much gain in relatively stock form, If you can point me in the direction please do. Updating the tune/reflashing at no cost is a subjective thing. Also I have full throttle control (which is 500 alone from CPe), some of the limitations removed and debunked which I think the AP can change but the SB cannot or cant YET. I personally wouldnt trust myself tuning, sure I know whats involved, I know what numbers (AFRs I would want to hit) and all that jazz but I am no tuning expert, and nor do I think I can do as good as a job as someone who does this on a regular. Am I saying other people that arent pros cant do it, NO, I am saying that tuning is not for everyone as having a unit that cant be reflashed easily is not for everyone.

CEL's and Gauges I can totally understand, valid point. But for someone like myself I have a Dashhawk which can do more then the AP interms of gauges, and can clear CELs as well and log. The AP/SB can log more granted, but the SB cannot clear CELs from what I remember, could be mistaken on that.

Just want to note, I am not coming at you guns blazing and sorry if it seems that way, I just think that for someone like yourself your comfortable tuning and possibly want to constantly mod you car (you can correct me on that, and yes I do know your selling it but just saying if you were keeping it) for you maybe the flash might not make sense. But for me I dont plan on modding much (maybe an intake, but even that is a maybe because I am happy with the gains I have right now), and not wanting to tune becuase I am not comfortable it makes sense.


The problem is when they decide to upgrade your ECU because a new fix/update came out. :) Like I always remove my AP from the car when I visit the dealer and at that point my car is no different from a PSI flash or any other flashed car.

As said later on in the thread PSI would reflash it, but again is Mazda really going to come out with another fix/update? I highly doubt it. Also from what I was told by PSI the dealer would have a harder time finding this then the AP because of where and what is modified. I think that was said somewhere in one of the original threads just a FYI


Let's put a stop to this vs Cobb AP bullshit right here....it is obvious that this is a flash, and the Cobb AP is not.

to say they are comparable is ignorance...without a flashing device...you're at the mercy of the vendor. No problem if you're ok with it, but Cobb AP it is not.

Launch control? Flat foot shifting? Data logging? Open loop/close loop transition change? Remap throttle response? Remap traction control? Adjust load specific to each gear? run and test multiple maps? Need I go on?

Starscream is obviously happy with his tune, and that's all that matters...if PSI's marketing is to take on the AP, its tunes need to address a lot more than the guys "with an intake and exhaust"...and yeah, a flashing device so I don't need to worry about Mazda flashing over my PSI tune would be important...

I agree they are both different products, but some of the features you have said PSI can also tune for/change. The Launch Control, Flat Foot Shifting, Data logging, and multiple maps are some that I know arent really possibly. But the Remap Throttle has been done (as I have full control like the CPe flash), Mike also said he can remap traction but didnt tinker with it, Loads can be adjusted per gear as can boost as he was showing me some of the maps that can be I beleive that was one of them. Boost rampup can also be changed which Mike had done for me as well.

But then to which I ask can the AP do the full throttle control? can the AP modify ALL the maps on ECU? If you damage you AP or it gets stolen then what? What if I dunno how to tune? Will a OTS map be perfect for my setup and I'll have to do absolutely nothing? Just pointing out some of the 'other shoe' sorta speak, but I fear that this may cause the thread out of control and I dont want that, I agree with you there that they are different.

Basically like you said there both different products and both have their pluses and minuses BUT if theres anything we CAN agree on its that there is more then just Cobb and CPe that are doing stuff and thats a plus, the more the better. And yeppers I am totally happy with the tune :D


Let's discuss!

The biggest problem I would have with the set it and forget approach is that it relies heavily on the tuner. And as much as these are advertised as flashes, they are really individual tunes. So perhaps, the set it and forget it appraoch works for PSI cars, but it leaves a lot on the table considering:

1. They're tuning each car individually, and promise a reflash if you lose it...so they're saving YOUR flash.
2. To have this type of control, from the smoothness and driveability, I suspect they have a lot more control over the ECU due to the program they use.
3. To me, a flash is a flash. A tune is a tune. Not the same. They advertise this as a flash, but it's in fact a custom tune...which is cool...now while they're at it, can they eleborate if they can control the other stuff that I also care about...

Devil's in the details...personally, I'm very interested in how they're custom tuning each car and how they maintain a level of adaptability, like the stock tune. So if you have more to share, please do not let my shortness stop you...

As a AP guy, I have a feeling PSI is tuning with exactly what all of us are looking for: a software that reads every table the MS3 ECU has to offer...cuz right now, for me, an ideal tune isn't one just for power.

The set it and forget it approach works with some and not with others. They for the most part, I feel, that they are individualized. Each car is a MS3 and is the same, yes, BUT they are also different because each of us has different wear, driving characteristics, the way the car is generally. So the tune can take advantage for each person individually.

1. I agree they are saving my flash, but hey they have been a company of their word and are somewhat local and I am happy with my Canadian dollars staying Canadian :D LOL
2. Oh yes they definately have alot of control because of the program, the company (Piasini) and not to undercut Mike also knows what hes doing too that I can attest to as can my tune.
3. I agree its more of a custom tune, that is delivered as a flash. I am sure Mike can chime in on more of the features even though I have explained a few above.

Again Mike can elaborate and I can only give you what I have personally experienced and know. Youve driven the car and felt what its like. They are doing something right :D LOL


To be honest I will have to let Hackish answer the tech questions. We will eventually have a reflash unit (hand held). The tune are reg 550cdn but we have been getting a good number of pms and emails asking when the next one will be. Mazda is fairly new for us so as the market grows so will we. Since we have the raw data we can change anything we want. Issue is that takes time and money. Again as the market grows we will be expanding "features" as we go.

I am semi-trolling...lol...had the window up and was looking at a Mitu wiring diagram.

A handheld unit would be great, and honestly I think it would sell. Look at the questions and interest this thread is having. Theres been some great debate going, hell thats what a car forum is for to ask questions, get answers and debate on methods and generally learn more. If I can say anything about PSI they have been professional, friendly and fun when I was tuning. They have been a company of their word and to me thats important.


I just think if you guys get a accessport pro tuner license you could bank in more money and not have to reinvent the wheel. COBB already stopped supporting the ms3's so their tool in your hands could mean good $$ especially cause the closest place is like in new jersey for a custom pro tune...

I think part of the problem with that is the AP doesnt allow you to modify all the maps like the PSI/Piasini flash/tune does. I did hear that the AP Pro Tuner Race license allows you to modify more maps then what the regular license/tuner does but thats speculation.


maybe the AP/ATR/ATP can't control everything...and PSI can? inquiring minds want to know...everyone's talking about fueling and ECU walls, what's PSI's take on it?

and again, this isn't about Cobb vs. PSI...we're Canadians...we're level-headed...we can and will pay for the best solution.

From what I know theres just about every aspect of the ECU they can control. They have the complete ECU code disassembled so I would imagine they can do everything. I think now that they realise there is a market and people are interested and that partially it was a matter of getting the infomation out there, there might be a good enough market to look deeper and do more.


Also to note, thanks to everyone on their comments. Much appreciated!

Fobio
02-04-2010, 08:59 AM
SS...at this point, all I can say to your response is that you best leave it for PSI to answer our questions...as an end-user who's only tuning experience with the MS3 is letting PSI tune your car, you are not in any position to defend the PSI against the AP or the Stand-back...and obviously your views are biased as a customer, but why do you feel the need to defend PSI against anything? You got a good tune for a stock car, and everyone agrees...

I will say it one more time, no matter what anyone says, in its current incarnation, the PSI tune/flash is just that....YOU personally have no control over what they're doing...if you told whoever tuned your car, that you wanted this or that changed, would they have done it? would the typical person who gets a PSI tune/flash realize what they're potentially missing out on?

how are your LTFT's doing? what's a good AFR @ part throttle vs WOT? if you want to tweak your transition from closed loop to open loop? and yes, PSI may have control of everything, but do they know what they're controlling?

SS...you know I'm all up for debate, but like I said, best leave it to PSI to answer our questions... =)

Let me give you a taste at what I'm getting at bro: if they have full control, is max power really all they can do? and how safe was it when YOU told ME they pushed your stock car to 340wtrq, knowing full well you don't have any other supporting mods, like an upgraded fuel pump or spark plugs? all of us experienced MS3 owners who have been studious about reading about blow-ups KNOWS that is appraoching the danger zone...were you aware OR MADE aware by PSI about that?

if they have full control, why do they only up power? is that the only way to tune a car? I feel they have a tool that isn't fully exploited, and as one of those guys who's looking beyond "an intake and exhaust", I want to know how their tools can make my car better...

wolverineottawa
02-04-2010, 09:24 AM
I know my car is not a Mazda but we took a stock 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart (like the Mazda not much out there for that car) we built a turbo kit and (like the Mazda we have full access to the rom), we completly re wrote the ecu to run the turbo thus getting it to fuel properly. Mike/Hackish found a secret to getting NA cars to fuel properly, obviously I can't divuldge that but I have seen the development of my car and what he can do. We do not do generic maps and flash into your car yes we do custom tunes for one reason,over the past year we have found that a vehicle manufacturer will make a small change from the earlier batch had as thay discover something is wrong or simplly change the location of a certin map on the rom. Yes a generic map it will work but we like to make sure the changes we make are 100% geared for your car and you get the full bennifate of what we do.

Fobio
02-04-2010, 09:32 AM
I know my car is not a Mazda but we took a stock 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart (like the Mazda not much out there for that car) we built a turbo kit and (like the Mazda we have full access to the rom), we completly re wrote the ecu to run the turbo thus getting it to fuel properly. Mike/Hackish found a secret to getting NA cars to fuel properly, obviously I can't divuldge that but I have seen the development of my car and what he can do. We do not do generic maps and flash into your car yes we do custom tunes for one reason,over the past year we have found that a vehicle manufacturer will make a small change from the earlier batch had as thay discover something is wrong or simplly change the location of a certin map on the rom. Yes a generic map it will work but we like to make sure the changes we make are 100% geared for your car and you get the full bennifate of what we do.

wolverine, we're not asking you or anyone to give away the shop...chk out the US thread...just cuz I'm the most vocal (or resourceful, however you look at it), doesn't mean I'm the only one, I'm just the person who's putting the questions together with regards to all the rumours, speculations and inquiries that I'm privy to...

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f338/my-mazdaspeed-3-psi-piasini-reflash-tune-impressions-48069/

you guys need to post up now and answer some questions from the enthusiasts yourselves...

wolverineottawa
02-04-2010, 09:42 AM
wolverine, we're not asking you or anyone to give away the shop...chk out the US thread...just cuz I'm the most vocal (or resourceful, however you look at it), doesn't mean I'm the only one, I'm just the person who's putting the questions together with regards to all the rumours, speculations and inquiries that I'm privy to...

http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f338/my-mazdaspeed-3-psi-piasini-reflash-tune-impressions-48069/

you guys need to post up now and answer some questions from the enthusiasts...

I agree and since we are "the new guys on the block" (had to becareful there...lol) we have alot of proving. Please fire away all the questions you want after all its your car. As I said Hack is the best to answer the thec questions but at the moment he is prepping for us to go adapt our turbo flash to the Ripp Mods supercharger kit. Look Hack has been tuning cars in Ottawa for over 10 years and his resume is quite long not that he will talk about himself thats not what he is about he will let the customers car do the talking.....Thus far everyone ahs beed forced fed other companies products and now there is local company doing things differently that what you are used to. What you are looking for yes we can do it but you will need to bring the car to us to make these changes.

I am not too framiliar with the accessport or other companies products but can you have full access to tune your ecu with thier product? or do they have tunes you download for each mod you have?

Fobio
02-04-2010, 09:51 AM
you know I have lotsa questions...I'll gather my thoughts and get at you guys...

in the meantime...I'm thinking...

you guys + my car + 1 wknd = sexy time for all

Donutz
02-04-2010, 10:04 AM
you guys + my car + 1 wknd = sexy time for all

:pop

Fobio
02-04-2010, 10:24 AM
:pop

let me give you some butter for that popcorn...

I was told and verified by several others that they were able to push the stock MS3 to >330wtrq...ECU wall? what ECU wall?!

imagine the possibilities...

Zoom Zoom Boy
02-04-2010, 10:29 AM
Certainly one of the more interesting threads on here in a while...

Starscream, nice write-up and glad you're happy with the flash and your car's performance.

Fobio, great questions all and thank-you for asking them.

The PSI tune and it is just that, a tune delivered as a flash, is certainly intriguing for those that are more interested in a custom tune where you 'tune it and forget about it'.

This said, it is way too new, unproven and has too many unaddressed questions that still need to be answered for me to personally consider it, but it does certainly hold interest. I would be far more interested however, that once the product has a little more proven maturity, that a handheld device with reflash capabilities is a capable part of the package. There is simply too much reliance on the tuner and risk with the dealerships otherwise.

I'll continue to watch these threads really closely as they are very informative and interesting to be sure

mleblond
02-04-2010, 11:37 AM
wolverine, I would recommend to take the time to sit with a local ottawa member that has an AP and also has Access port Tuner to realize what it offers. When you said "I am not too framiliar with the accessport" that tells me you guys don't do your homework. Especially since your market is the same.

P.s. the Pro Tuner offers more than what the Tuner Race version offers for us single users.

Mty Mous
02-04-2010, 11:51 AM
:pop

+1 :)

Fobio
02-04-2010, 01:17 PM
Here is my open ltr to PSI:

Open Letter to PSI (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?41311-Open-letter-to-PSI&p=564475#post564475)

PSI Tuning
02-04-2010, 01:47 PM
Sorry I don't have a lot of time to pick apart everything posted up that's wrong. A lot of the things you said Fobio are not accurate.

We adjust more than 6000 parameters on the ECU. Piasini was the first to release a reflash for these cars. Not the first by a few weeks but the first in the magnitude of a year or more. To give you an example, we already have a reflash for the Mazda2 and we're working on tuning a turbo kit for it. All this and you can't even buy the car here yet. We've got partners in Japan whom we work with in order to develop reflashes before the cars are even available in North America. Sometimes there are minor differences from car to car but for the most part these maps are the same from car to car to car and we've got hundreds of people around the world running them already.

I have sold and tuned the accessport since they released it for the first Subarus. Why would I drop $4k USD on a system to tune Mazdaspeeds when they have only a small fraction of the stuff figured out in the ROM and the client ends up spending a good deal more money on their solution than ours? Hrm, less performance for more money. You do however get a cool little box with some buttons you can push and as Brent points out, all guys like to push buttons. Our focus is around doing the button pushing and giving you something that is well tested, reliable and powerful. Flash it and go enjoy driving it. Pretty hard for an individual to learn what a professional tuner does in 10 years of full time tuning. We did this group buy at below cost to get the product out here on the streets in Canada and those who got in on it were able to benefit from the $365+GST price. For the rest, yes the price will be higher but still well below the cost of an AP. So you pay less and you get more.

The only downside I have seen is that it's harder to commit warrantee fraud if you do cook your engine. Most times the dealerships are smart enough to catch you if you had any reflash or other mods - ours or anyone elses. If you're afraid of breaking something and warrantee not covering you then leave your car stock. We've had excellent results and we've put thousands of hours into developing this stuff but these engines were designed to put out their 263hp from the factory and some of those things break in stock trim.

-Michael

starscream
02-04-2010, 02:04 PM
SS...at this point, all I can say to your response is that you best leave it for PSI to answer our questions...as an end-user who's only tuning experience with the MS3 is letting PSI tune your car, you are not in any position to defend the PSI against the AP or the Stand-back...and obviously your views are biased as a customer, but why do you feel the need to defend PSI against anything? You got a good tune for a stock car, and everyone agrees...

I will say it one more time, no matter what anyone says, in its current incarnation, the PSI tune/flash is just that....YOU personally have no control over what they're doing...if you told whoever tuned your car, that you wanted this or that changed, would they have done it? would the typical person who gets a PSI tune/flash realize what they're potentially missing out on?

how are your LTFT's doing? what's a good AFR @ part throttle vs WOT? if you want to tweak your transition from closed loop to open loop? and yes, PSI may have control of everything, but do they know what they're controlling?

SS...you know I'm all up for debate, but like I said, best leave it to PSI to answer our questions... =)

Let me give you a taste at what I'm getting at bro: if they have full control, is max power really all they can do? and how safe was it when YOU told ME they pushed your stock car to 340wtrq, knowing full well you don't have any other supporting mods, like an upgraded fuel pump or spark plugs? all of us experienced MS3 owners who have been studious about reading about blow-ups KNOWS that is appraoching the danger zone...were you aware OR MADE aware by PSI about that?

if they have full control, why do they only up power? is that the only way to tune a car? I feel they have a tool that isn't fully exploited, and as one of those guys who's looking beyond "an intake and exhaust", I want to know how their tools can make my car better...

Just gonna clear up a few things here, not meant to be hellfire. I agree I'll let PSI do more of the talking about the product specifically, I can only speak about what I know and more so what I have experience.

However to say that I am not in any position to defend the reflash against the AP or SB is pretty crude. I agree I am biased as a customer, but then again arent you with a AP? Its like the pot calling the kettle black.

Again with it being tuned by a tuner, I agree there is a chance that they may not have done what I wanted, BUT again from their demeanour, how they conducted business, I have nothing but respect for PSI and what they did. They were straightforward and upfront when we were tuning, I dont think that would even be a question if they did what they asked. However the few things I did ask for they DID do so moot point I suppose. A person maynot fully realize the potental the car is missing out on, however thats the ability of the tuner as well tho. They can extract as much as they can, not just talking about Mike, but anyone that tuning. Taking a person that knows little tuning, to someone like Steve Kahn that does RX7s he can make some impressive tunes. Does the person knowing little, know what hes missing out on, hopefully, unless hes arrogant to say he can tune as well as a full fledged tuner thats tuned hundreds of cars. (just to note, I am NOT saying you dunno how to tune, not trying to insinuate anything about your personal intelligence).

Does PSI know what their controlling? Again a question they can answer themselves, I am only a bi-product of that with the reflash, so take it as you will.

Well pushing the car to 340wtq was something that BOTH me and Mike agreed wasnt really something that was safe or where I wanted the car to be. I mean because I dont tune the MS3 myself, isnt to say that I dont have the understanding or knowledge of the car. I mean I did do my research, I also understand most of the limitations of the car and also what I personally want out of the car. Was I made away by PSI about it? or did I know about it? It was a bit of both, I knew I didnt want that for various reasons (see my research) and they knew it wasnt what I wanted and it was at the blocks limits (as discussed by me and Mike over various PMs before tuning).

I agree that they have a tool thats great and hey there is a crowd interested in getting more answers and possibly a tune, such as yourself. And yes, those are questions they can answer. But again like I said before this is what the forum is about, intellectual people discussing and debating. I am pretty happy this thread, thus far hasnt gone to the "HEY YOUR GAY GTFO!" route. None of this is trying to insinuate anyone here is dumb or stupid, its intellectual debate if you will and I think were making progress, not sure how far, but its progress none the less.

Zoom Zoom Boy - Thanks for the notes! Come out to a meet sometime see how she feels :D

Fobio
02-04-2010, 02:04 PM
please elaborate on on where I am not accurate on and please to take the time to address the concerns presented in the open letter.

please also refrain from comparing your services to the Cobb AP, as it should only be a point of reference that we are familiar with, not the end all of solutions.

furthermore, pls take the time to understand that I've taken the time and effort to not attack your product, so don't waste time defending it...we all just want to klnow more and how it applies to more than just a flash.

thanks.

Fobio
02-04-2010, 02:08 PM
SS...take it down a notch...we don't need any lord of the flies chest beating in here...

but I assert the point...you haven't played with the AP and only gotten a ride in my car...I've tuned with the AP and driven your car...so please, let it not be about the AP vs PSI...I've tried so hard to move the discussion along, why drag it back into useless drivel?

are you not reading my posts correctly? where have I put the PSI down for what it is now? where am I comparing it to the AP and/or putting down PSI?

how much more clear to I have to make my intentions...obviously others reading understand, why don't you? =)

starscream
02-04-2010, 02:10 PM
SS...take it down a notch...we don't need any lord of the flies chest beating in here...

but I assert the point...you haven't played with the AP and only gotten a ride in my car...I've tuned with the AP and driven your car...so please, let it not be about the AP vs PSI...I've tried so hard to move the discussion along, why drag it back into useless drivel?

LOL, but I wanna put a head on a stake (reference to Lord of the Flies)...Jokes. I just felt like there was a need for me to make a few things clear. If they came off rough I do apologize and I'll be more eased from here on. I agree we dont want it to go into a AP/PSI debate and we'll stop that here, or rather just in case, I'll stop that here as well.

mleblond
02-04-2010, 04:30 PM
I think what fobio is trying to say is that with the AP and Tuner Race we can see and know what we can change within the ECU map. So we know how some of the ECU tables are working.

From that stand point we want to know how PSI can work with the tables from the ecu that we know and how (if you do) work with tables we don't know about? Were not trying to get info on how to change it or access it. Its just PSI says something like "we do much more" but leave out the details... We don't want to know how to build it, we just want to know YOU can change/mod it to make it work.

Try and read or go through the msf forum on issues this car has and limitations the ecu does and address how PSI addresses them. I'm just frustrated by this MAGIC bs of a tune without knowing if those ISSUES were addressed. We want you to help us, but as an enthusiast, we like to understand what was addressed without necessarily going into full details how it was done.

Fobio
02-04-2010, 04:40 PM
^^^ I thank you for summarizing my position. =)

starscream
02-05-2010, 01:24 AM
I had done some brief logging before the flash. One of the things I was really interested in was the TPS to see how much control I get. I have a log of Absolute TPS before and Absolute TPS after.

Before
http://www.laleetsgarage.com/pics/photos/MS3/Dashhawklogs/StockTPS1.jpg

After
http://www.laleetsgarage.com/pics/photos/MS3/Dashhawklogs/PiasiniTPS1.jpg

jaybhola
01-03-2012, 01:03 PM
so what mods does the speed3 thats running 270+ whp have?

Mr Wilson
01-03-2012, 01:11 PM
Starscream's/the OP?

First post for mods + tune,

'The only engine-type mod on the car is the CPe CBE, and the CPe RMM (if that counts). So a relatively
speaking stock MS3.'

jaybhola
01-03-2012, 01:45 PM
wow, so his numbers are pretty good.

BTW any idea of any good tuners in NY??

Mr Wilson
01-03-2012, 01:56 PM
Are you currently tuning with an AP? If so MSpeed Tuning in the sponsors section of this site can tune you (even from America's hat).

jaybhola
01-04-2012, 12:06 AM
no i dont have an AP yet. kinda dont know where to start on my car. any suggestions?
im trying to reach around 300whp

AlphaMotorsports.ca
01-04-2012, 12:19 AM
no i dont have an AP yet. kinda dont know where to start on my car. any suggestions?
im trying to reach around 300whp

Here is a start - http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?58283-*MSpeed*-Mod-Path-Series-Stage-1

Fack_Dude
01-04-2012, 12:21 AM
[QUOTE=jaybhola;870426]no i dont have an AP yet. kinda dont know where to start on my car. any suggestions?
im trying to reach around 300whp[/QUOT
fully bolted with a proper tune

jaybhola
01-04-2012, 12:40 AM
so what do you guys have on the car?

what kinda tune? AP tune or professional tuner?

the only tuner i know of nearby is Akumasports in nj, i live in ny

starscream
01-04-2012, 02:11 AM
so what mods does the speed3 thats running 270+ whp have?

For that PSI/Piasini Tune it was just a CPe CBE that was the only engine modification that would allow some hp gain, even then a CBE is not ever known for its hp gain more for tone/sound.


wow, so his numbers are pretty good.

BTW any idea of any good tuners in NY??

They were good number, the car was really enjoyable. Ive taken a bit of a different path but none the less the original tune was good. There is a good shop in Buffalo NY which is Innovative Tuning I believe Christan from Cobb was there in the summer doing tunes there before he came up here. Apparently he taught their lead tuner. I believe they have a dyno there too incase you wanted to see what real numbers you put down.


no i dont have an AP yet. kinda dont know where to start on my car. any suggestions?
im trying to reach around 300whp

If youre trying to reach 300whp you'll need some boltons and a tuning solution. Theres a few solutions out there and atleast 1 more thats coming out. Cobb AP is the foremost known one, but not the only one. I would say set yourself a budget and plan out youre mods. Intake, Downpipe, FMIC/TMIC upgrade, Sparkplugs, HPFP and a Tune would be a good start.... not necessarily in that order but those are majority of what you'll need to get to 300 whp.

I would say power is 1 component of a good car, handling is another component. Also look into ways to reduce weight as you can feel those differences too (light weight rims, something like RPF01 in 17's with some nice rubber will also help to put a smile on youre face even if you dont have your 300whp).


so what do you guys have on the car?

what kinda tune? AP tune or professional tuner?

the only tuner i know of nearby is Akumasports in nj, i live in ny

Akuma from what I remember does a pretty good job, if they are close to you and the price is right go for it. I would say do ALOT of reading and plan out the mods. See what you want from your car and what youre willing to sacrifice for it.

jaybhola
01-04-2012, 01:02 PM
Thank you so much for the detailed explanations!

and i probably definitely will get akuma to tune it than, i have read that the owner of akuma worked for cobb so thats a plus.

Now i have a different question away form this topic and you really seem to know what you are talking about, so i have a p2006 code, which is an issue stating that the shutter valve in the VTCS system is stuck closed. i brought it to the dealer and they changed the solenoid actuator which did not fix the problem and suggested i change the manifold saying it was dirty. Any advice on what to do?

starscream
01-04-2012, 01:43 PM
Thank you so much for the detailed explanations!

and i probably definitely will get akuma to tune it than, i have read that the owner of akuma worked for cobb so thats a plus.

Now i have a different question away form this topic and you really seem to know what you are talking about, so i have a p2006 code, which is an issue stating that the shutter valve in the VTCS system is stuck closed. i brought it to the dealer and they changed the solenoid actuator which did not fix the problem and suggested i change the manifold saying it was dirty. Any advice on what to do?

I would start a new thread for this, however I'll indulge you here for quick sakes. Theres plenty of knowledgeable people on the forum here so ask away. P2006 is a Intake Manifold Runner control issue (VTCS). Now if they dealer already changed the solenoid, then I would say get the lines checked. Then clear the code and go from there. I suspect it could be the cold and the lines having an issue. I would say if anything go get some quality silicone line (not the spectre/vibrant shit) get some quality line and replace the line and check if that helps.

Car still under warranty? Get the dealer to fix it, or rather keep harassing them till they do fix it if it is under warranty.

jaybhola
01-04-2012, 02:04 PM
thank you once again, and yes the car is still under the powertrain but the dealer said that that issue isnt covered by warranty

starscream
01-04-2012, 02:20 PM
thank you once again, and yes the car is still under the powertrain but the dealer said that that issue isnt covered by warranty

You need to find another dealer then. If powertrain is covered then its covered as its apart of the powertrain and is NOT a wear item. As in brakes pads are a wear item and are not under warranty (in a very general level of speaking).