87 octane to 91/94 octane fuel economy improvement?

[jgerald]

My friend who has an 09 Acura TSX told me that using 94 octane on his car gives him more mileage to the dollar than the recommended 91 on his car. He probably drives 75% highway and 25% local.

I wonder if this is possible and has anyone experienced this before on their mazda 3 (1st or 2nd gen)?

[KenYork]

It depends on the grade of fuel your car is tuned(recommended) for. In our 3's regular is all we need, we'll probably lose mileage if we changed grades. His TSX is already tuned(recommended) on a higher grade so the 94 should help him.

[optiklenz13]

No Mazda3 benefits from higher octane fuel. You'd be throwing money away..

+1 waste of you money..

[JashiK]

I agree, it would be a waste of money to put in anything more than 87 grade.

[Takumi616]

87 Octane FTW!!!

[mzkaye729]

I agree, it would be a waste of money to put in anything more than 87 grade.

That's weird because for my car (05 GS), I get better mileage with a higher octane fuel (than regular) and the pickup (acceleration) seems a bit quicker than if I put in lowest octane gas in it. It even varies with the brand of gas station I get my gas from. I get mine from Esso and compared to Shell and Petro, Esso gas for some weird reason makes my car run a lot smoother and farther. I always put mid-grade octane though.

Hmmm.... *confused*..

[Turok]

Before my speed3, I always used regular octane in my mazda3 GT

As for gas's being different from station to station (Esso, shell, petrocan etc..) I do believe there is a difference. I find for my speed3 my car runs better on Shell V-power vs Petro Can premium for example. I'm not sure if this applies to regular 87 octane gas.. but for premium gas, I do find there is a difference.

[horto]

+1 for shell v-power. much better mileage compared to sonoco ultra 94.



Before my speed3, I always used regular octane in my mazda3 GT

As for gas's being different from station to station (Esso, shell, petrocan etc..) I do believe there is a difference. I find for my speed3 my car runs better on Shell V-power vs Petro Can premium for example. I'm not sure if this applies to regular 87 octane gas.. but for premium gas, I do find there is a difference.

[Default User]

I use mid-grade shell for both my 3 and my T4R
I find there are minimal benefits (such as no "pinging") and for the extra $3-5 on a full tank, it gives me peace of mind that the Nitrogen enriched formula is actually beneficial for the motor. (Plus the 3X Airmiles promo helps out)

I've read that using anything other than 87 does nothing for the car, and regular is all we need. But I'ms old skool and wes just does ours own thing, yo!



FYI - on my T4R, and my buddies T4R, Esso gas rotted the fuel flotter thing, causing inaccurate fuel level readings.

[Fobio]

That's weird because for my car (05 GS), I get better mileage with a higher octane fuel (than regular) and the pickup (acceleration) seems a bit quicker than if I put in lowest octane gas in it. It even varies with the brand of gas station I get my gas from. I get mine from Esso and compared to Shell and Petro, Esso gas for some weird reason makes my car run a lot smoother and farther. I always put mid-grade octane though.

Hmmm.... *confused*..

All butt-dyno...I'm not here to argue, but there's no quantifiable hp difference when running 91/93 on a MZ3 engine tuned for 87...there MAY be quantifiable difference in gas quality between stations/refineries, but there is no way a car tuned for 87 will make more power or run better with 91/93. That's truth.


Before my speed3, I always used regular octane in my mazda3 GT

As for gas's being different from station to station (Esso, shell, petrocan etc..) I do believe there is a difference. I find for my speed3 my car runs better on Shell V-power vs Petro Can premium for example. I'm not sure if this applies to regular 87 octane gas.. but for premium gas, I do find there is a difference.


+1 for shell v-power. much better mileage compared to sonoco ultra 94.

Both of you are likely running stock or in horto's case, a 91 tune...when running stock or a 91 tune, you will also not benefit from 94. When I was on a 91 tune, I also got worse mileage with 94 gas...once I started running a 94 tune, I got back the same mileage running 91 gas with a 91 tune.

POINT: run the octane your car is tuned for...anything else is unnecessary.

[JashiK]

Shell's Nitrogen enriched gas is in all 3 tiers.

Shell's V-power gas contains no ethenol. Could be the reason u notice a difference with V-power compared to all other premium fuels.

[TokyoKiller]

I notice better pick-up and smoother acceleration with Shell V-Power, I've tried both and I drive more spirited than your average joe, and with that, I notice I get a tad better mileage as I feel like less gas is used when accelerate.

Could be psychological though lol.

[Turok]

Shell's Nitrogen enriched gas is in all 3 tiers.

Shell's V-power gas contains no ethenol. Could be the reason u notice a difference with V-power compared to all other premium fuels.

Yup which is why I use V-Power, I find 91 octane with no ethanol runs better in my speed3.

[RBoy8]

Like others have said, there really is no need for any of the higher grade fuels. Unless you do lots of hard driving, 87 should be okay. My car calls for 91 but I run 87 because I am not a hard driver and do not go long distances.

When I do travel long distances however, that is when I put it 91.

[RECREATIONAL_ANXIETY]

OK, having studied fuels in college I can lay this one to rest. The ONLY thing a fuel with a higher octane rating does is ignite at a higher temperature. It has the same explosive force, same burn, etc as 87 octane, but resists "self igniting" that can occur with lower octane fuels in high compression engines. This is why higher compression engines, or boosted engines require the higher octane numbers. If they use low octane, there is a good chance that the heat generated on the compression stroke of the engine will cause the fuel to ignite before the spark plug fires. In standard engines this doesn't happen because there isn't enough heat generated by the compression of the air/fuel mix to cause it to self ignite. All those who think they've experienced better fuel mileage or better performance are either getting a "psychological boost" or getting a bad batch of regular gas to compare against. There are definitely differences in different batches of fuel & different companies. The best example of this I can give is this - those "discount" type gas stations typically use the gasoline that the name-brand gas companies have left over from the previous batch that wasn't used up before the new stuff - the mixtures are changed several times per year to accommodate for changing climate conditions. The discount gas stations sell the older, leftover fuel, which isn't going to be as good as the newer stuff.

[Default User]

The best example of this I can give is this - those "discount" type gas stations typically use the gasoline that the name-brand gas companies have left over from the previous batch that wasn't used up before the new stuff - the mixtures are changed several times per year to accommodate for changing climate conditions. The discount gas stations sell the older, leftover fuel, which isn't going to be as good as the newer stuff.

Very true. The old Beaver gast station on Sheppard, east of McCowan (they have a coin op wash) have a sign showing that they sell Sunoco gas.
However, they do not mention its older fuel, and the sign is hand written on a piece of paper

[Pokey]

I notice better pick-up and smoother acceleration with Shell V-Power, I've tried both and I drive more spirited than your average joe, and with that, I notice I get a tad better mileage as I feel like less gas is used when accelerate.

Could be psychological though lol.

You should get better mileage with the 93? octane - the lower grades both contain ethanol while this one does not. Ethanol has a lower energy potential than pure gasoline - it takes more ethanol than pure gasoline to travel the same distance. Therefore by adding ethanol to gasoline they are effectively lowering your fuel efficiency - however is it being lowered by 10% to make you buy the vpower (usually 10% more expensive these days) that's for you to decide.

[jgerald]

thanks for the response guys!

But what my friend actually means is using higher octane gives him better "dollar - to - mileage" ratio. He doesn't say that it runs faster or better he just means that if I spend 50 bucks on regular 87 and spend the same 50 bucks on premium 91/94, I would get more mileage if not the same using the 91/94.

[bman13]

I get better mileage with better gas...if my car was used, I prob would put 87...but thats me.

[mzkaye729]

All butt-dyno...I'm not here to argue, but there's no quantifiable hp difference when running 91/93 on a MZ3 engine tuned for 87...there MAY be quantifiable difference in gas quality between stations/refineries, but there is no way a car tuned for 87 will make more power or run better with 91/93. That's truth.

Probably just me then as I notice the difference in the way the car runs compared to when I put in regular gas vs. a higher-octane gas.

Oh well. I'm happy as long as the car is running !

[Elusivellama]

I know Canadian Tire gas is 10% ethanol, but would you guys consider it to be 'leftover' gas? I've been meaning to go try Shell V Power or Sunoco.

[Charlie S]

How about the engine supposedly runs cleaner with Shell V power Is that a Myth ?

Plus if I pump 20 liters of V power, I am getting 20 liters of pure gas, not 18 liters of gas and 2 liters of Ethenol.
Even though it costs you a few cents more. Probabbly it will turn out even.

[cobra]

Before my speed3, I always used regular octane in my mazda3 GT

As for gas's being different from station to station (Esso, shell, petrocan etc..) I do believe there is a difference. I find for my speed3 my car runs better on Shell V-power vs Petro Can premium for example. I'm not sure if this applies to regular 87 octane gas.. but for premium gas, I do find there is a difference.

I used 91 Gas from Shell Canada on my old Ford F150 because it had ZERO ethanol (87 has 10%, 89 - 5%). Some people say ethanol is bad for the engine. I stopped throwing money down the drain when I learned that in USA ALL GAS (even the 93 at their Shell) has ethanol. If ethanol was that bad, they wouldn't be adding it to all brands of gas. I switched back to Regular 87 and hardly noticed any difference in performance. Plan to use only Regular in my new Mazda 3.

[ssolidd]

Its my first car that I got a few months ago I remember using a 91 -octane fuel (mazda3I)on my first 1 month since the manual says it... : (

[cobra]

Its my first car that I got a few months ago I remember using a 91 -octane fuel (mazda3I)on my first 1 month since the manual says it... : (

As long haul trucker who buys on average $4,000 worth of DIESEL fuel every month :(, I can recommend this: once in a while buy a bottle of Lucas Upper Cylinder Lubricant and Injector Cleaner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRy0QnzuW58). This stuff works like magic. What it does it cleans up the inside of the engine and in this way you can help your engine run smoother and have more power, despite bad fuel. I buy a 4 L can of this stuff and put 1/4 of it in the tank of my diesel monster every other filling. Each time I do that there' s a surge in power and much improved FUN factor. Also, I think it's a good idea to buy gas from the same station: once you find the one that you think has quality gas (the car runs good after the fill-up), it's best to stick to the location/brand. I personally like Shell.

[Impressive]

Its my first car that I got a few months ago I remember using a 91 -octane fuel (mazda3I)on my first 1 month since the manual says it... : (

The manual says to use 91 in your regular 3? What manual are you reading? 87 octane is all you need man.

[TheMAN]

I used 91 Gas from Shell Canada on my old Ford F150 because it had ZERO ethanol (87 has 10%, 89 - 5%). Some people say ethanol is bad for the engine. I stopped throwing money down the drain when I learned that in USA ALL GAS (even the 93 at their Shell) has ethanol. If ethanol was that bad, they wouldn't be adding it to all brands of gas. I switched back to Regular 87 and hardly noticed any difference in performance. Plan to use only Regular in my new Mazda 3.

if ethanol isn't bad, why do many engine manufacturers and lawn mower equipment companies continually oppose it?
oh I guess that's because it eats out fuel lines, rots out seals, eats out gas tanks, causes water in the fuel lines? :rolleyes

they add ethanol in the gas because they're made to do so by the government
if oil companies had their way, they wouldn't put that crap in the gas

[sudz]

as long as your car is designed for ethanol, its all good.

However, MOST cars get worse performance/mileage with ethanol. If you look at those E85 cars, they'll have two sets of HP/Torque/MPG readings depending if you're burning regular gas vs E85 gas... And the E85 sucks the big one.

[MattL]

As long haul trucker who buys on average $4,000 worth of DIESEL fuel every month ... I personally like Shell.

That, is a lot of air miles xD

[cobra]

That, is a lot of air miles xD

I go to an LCBO, they always ask me, "AirMiles?". I always answer, "I'm a trucker. I don't fly." Usually that gets a smile ;)

[cobra]

as long as your car is designed for ethanol, its all good.

Was reading the manual today and it said, DO NOT USE GAS WITH MORE THAN 10% ETHANOL. So, our 87 gas is right there on the edge with its 10% content. Maybe we should use 89? At least that one has only 5%, at least at Shell Canada stations.

[cobra]

Found an interesting web site that lists gas stations in US and Canada that sell Ethanol Free gas. Here's the link (http://www.pure-gas.org). I was glad to see that the Esso in Waterloo, On (885 King St. North, Waterloo, Wagners Corner) sells all its gas with ZERO ethanol (87, 89 and 91). This goes into my Favorites on the GPS ;)

[sudz]

Doesn't Petro Canada and Esso say on their pumps "may contain up to 15% ethanol" ?

Nvm...
Esso:
Ethanol-blended gasoline
Ethanol-blended gasoline is currently available at participating Esso service stations in British Columbia, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Ontario. Stations selling ethanol-blended gasoline have a label on the pump indicating the gasoline may contain up to 10 percent ethanol.

Petro canada:
Ethanol-blended gasoline
Ethanol-blended gasoline is a fuel that typically contains up to 10% ethanol in unleaded gasoline. We use ethanol in our gasoline where legislation requires its use and where conditions warrant. The Federal Government has regulated that motor gasoline sold in Canada after Sept. 1, 2010 must contain an annual pool average of 5% ethanol. Different provincial mandates also exist, some with higher ethanol pool requirements. Because of these mandates, most grades of Petro-Canada fuel may now contain up to 10% ethanol. This represents a change from the previous state, where premium fuel was ethanol-free at Petro-Canada. To find out if ethanol-blended gasoline is sold at a station look for the yellow labels in the pump area indicating that the fuel may contain a maximum of 10% ethanol.
Can I use this in my car?
Fuels blended with levels of up to 10% ethanol, are safe for engine components, and do not require engine or gas-line changes in vehicles
Since 1988, most automotive vehicles sold in Canada have been designed to use ethanol-blended gasoline, at the levels of up to 10% ethanol. If you have concerns check your owner’s manual or contact the vehicle manufacturer.
Ethanol-blended fuels are not for aircraft. For two-stroke and four-stroke engines contact the manufacturer to find out what precautions to take.

[2012speed3]

I seem to get the best mileage on Shell 91

[Fobio]

There is so much misinformation in here, that I'd not even care to comment. Look for a proper and concise discussion of octane, ethanol and tuning by MSpeed.

The highest whp Mazdaspeed3's in Canada are tuned to run on Ulta94 with up to 10% ethanol. Ppl who don't know what they're talking about should STFU and not spread half-truths like it's gospel.

Most of what is posted in this thread DO NOT APPLY to Mazdaspeed3's....

[Lockdown]

Fobio is correct. I wish people would say something like, I think, or in my opinion, when they don't know or have any experience and just regurgitate what they read 5 mins earlier.
misinformation is running rampant on several topics

[JrCanuck]

Mainly highway driving, I used a tank of Premium 94 Octane in 467.2 KM. This is with not exceeding 4000 RPM ever, and when compared to using Regular gas I had 570.8 KM.

Never wasting my money again.