horto's tuning/logs

[horto]

Here we go...


Cobb SRI+TIP
Turbosmart BOV
Denso IVT22 1-step colder plugs
CP-e HPFP
CP-e DP
Cobb AP Stage 2 + SF v1.08 91 Octane (OTS map)

First one is a 3rd gear pull I think:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/117425/APlogs/datalog6.png

And a 4th gear pull knockin' on heaven's door:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/117425/APlogs/datalog5.png

The turbosmart BOV is missing the gasket. Car is possibly overboosting?
Despite all the black soot on my tailpipe, the AFR seems lean in the 3500-4500rpm range?

Also this is my first time grabbing data/posting logs. So be gentle. (But not too gentle, lol).

[Fobio]

finally...

1. LTFT's @ WOT should be zero or +/-0.16. Your MAF needs calibration...you may also have a leak.

2. Your car is taking a long long time to enter Open Loop...from flooring to it hitting appropraite AFR's, it's taking about 3 seconds...

3. Your Load and g/s is surprisingly low. There's likely quite a bit of tEh Fastz to be unlocked assuming everything is mechanically sound.

4. Boost curve looks fine but you're not making the power it's supposed to.

[horto]

I don't think I ever calibrated the MAF to begin with...
I agree it feels like it does take long to hit open loop... maybe something is leaking...

Short term plan:
1. Calibrate MAF
2. Make a gasket for BOV (gasket paper or rubber o-ring?)
3. Check all intake connections for leakiness

[breakfasteatre]

Could i get a definition of o(rhymes with wee)en loo(rhymes with wee)?

[Fobio]

Could i get a definition of open loop?

there's probably a technical definition, but for our intents and purposes, it's when the car runs WOT commanded afr's as opposed to closed loop where it's using its outputs to feedback and adjust operation for say emissions and fuel economy.

[fywdyl]

And the way you can tell is by looking at the AFRs, is that correct?
And def need a MAF calibration.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

after doing a MAF calibration, log Equivalence Ratio (Commanded AFR) as well to see if there's a leak in the system after the MAF.

[-cj-]

Could i get a definition of o(rhymes with wee)en loo(rhymes with wee)?

Man, buy a new keyboard already! :chuckle

Or use the on screen keyboard! =)

To OP: Can't you order the gasket from turbosmart? If you are leaking from the BPV, that could explain nearly all your symptoms. Weird AFR, low g/s, maybe even your knock...

[BlueStreak]

You have a boost leak. Guaranteed. This is evidenced by the almost 100% WGDC starting at 5200 RPM.

Once you calibrate your MAF: mass airflow, calculated load and the associated spark advance will fall into place. This will help with all your knock retard since too much timing advance is being applied to the assumed *lower* calculated load.

Finally, you're in closed loop for such a long time since you're running an OTS map. OTS tunes generally keep you in CL up to 4500RPMs or so.

Start with fixing the hardware issues first as tuning can never circumvent hard part issues.

[horto]

MAF calibration time. Can someone sanity check my multipliers? (because I'm a total tuning n00b)

Breakpoints (given) x Multiplier (calculated)
~0-5.00 g/s x 1.01
~5.01-16 g/s x 1.05
~16.01-28 g/s x 1.06
~28.01-77 g/s x 1.08
~77 - Full range g/s x 1.08

Here are the (uncalibrated) pulls to 100g/sec from last night: 5208

[fywdyl]

From the log, that's what I'd do. I'd maybe do a couple more MAF logs to get an average.

[horto]

From the log, that's what I'd do. I'd maybe do a couple more MAF logs to get an average.

well, funny you mention that... I concatenated ALL the logs (the 6 worksheets above) into one file and then calculated the averages here... a bit anal, but it's within 1% of my original #'s.

[horto]

All this was done on 91 Octane and to my 91 octane map. Can I apply the same multiplier to my 93 octane map? Or do I have to go through the entire process again on a tank of Sunoco/Petrocan Ultra 94?

[Fobio]

All this was done on 91 Octane and to my 91 octane map. Can I apply the same multiplier to my 93 octane map? Or do I have to go through the entire process again on a tank of Sunoco/Petrocan Ultra 94?

changing gas does not change your MAF sensor. keep it up man!

[horto]

applied the calibration... car feels smoother and less laggy in the mid-rpm range. saw AFR's in the 11's (finally) out of the corner of my eye on the dashhawk. more logs to follow.

[horto]

post maf-calibration (try #1 anyway), few on-ramp pulls on my way home from work. how do these look? AFR's are much lower now. LTFT's are still out of whack. WGDC is way low compared to what it was.

3rd:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/117425/APlogs/3rd.png

4th:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/117425/APlogs/4th.png

Will try to grab some harder WOT pulls between now and the weekend.

[horto]

GASKET INSTALLED ON BOV

3rd:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/117425/APlogs/june%2016/gasket_3rd.png

3rd - graph:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/117425/APlogs/june%2016/graphs3rd.png

4th:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/117425/APlogs/june%2016/gasket_4th.png

4th - graph:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/117425/APlogs/june%2016/graphs.png

Much better now I think?

although the car doesn't feel like it's pulling as much as I think it should...

someone tell me how to make the sexy graphs in excel?

[Fobio]

much better

run it for a day or so...as it looks like it might be learning from the drastic changes. at least it's going in the right direction!

[BlueStreak]

Looks like you played with fueling since the last few datalogs. I see consistent AFRs until redline. Good stuff.

Your TRL X Gear tables are definitely playing a roll in managing boost and airflow as they differ from 3rd to 4th gear. You're also in closed loop for a good chunk of the pull.

Looking good!

[horto]

Looks like you played with fueling since the last few datalogs. I see consistent AFRs until redline. Good stuff.

Your TRL X Gear tables are definitely playing a roll in managing boost and airflow as they differ from 3rd to 4th gear. You're also in closed loop for a good chunk of the pull.

Looking good!

actually, I didn't touch any tuning parameters. I simply calibrated my MAF curve and added a gasket to the BOV to try and eliminate the boost leak. I know just enough about ATR to be dangerous, afraid to touch anything else! LOL.

how can you tell closed loop vs. open loop? what are the clues/parameters that identify it?

Thanks everyone for your advice so far. Very much appreciated!!

[Fobio]

how can you tell closed loop vs. open loop? what are the clues/parameters that identify it?

Thanks everyone for your advice so far. Very much appreciated!!

leaks...or the lack thereof makes a huge difference!

Your OL/CL transition: you floor it...you count 1-one thousand, 2-one thousand, 3-one thousand...then you hit you target AFR's...

Proper OL/CL...you floor it...you try to count 1-one-th...but you're already hitting you target AFR's...

[horto]

Proper OL/CL...you floor it...you try to count 1-one-th...but you're already hitting you target AFR's...

So how do I make that happen? Start editing commanded AFRs?

pondering what's next... self tune, street tune, pro tune...

[BlueStreak]

Are you a member on MazdaSpeedForums.org? Read up on Dano's Boost Tuning 101 (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f533/danos-boost-tuning-101-cool-stuff-68239/). The first 10 pages contain a wealth of information on how to tune your speed.

[horto]

Are you a member on MazdaSpeedForums.org? Read up on Dano's Boost Tuning 101 (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f533/danos-boost-tuning-101-cool-stuff-68239/). The first 10 pages contain a wealth of information on how to tune your speed.

I am a lurker of MSF but have never posted. When I click on that link I get:

horto, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:

Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.

Do I need a VIP membership or something?

/noob

[MajesticBlueNTO]

I am a lurker of MSF but have never posted. When I click on that link I get:


Do I need a VIP membership or something?

/noob

VIP yes...donate and you'll gain access.

[horto]

2 short pulls tonight while driving home on the highway

car is knocking under WOT :(

first one, felt a noticeable shudder + hesitation in 4th gear while accelerating down the 427

running a tank of esso 91 instead of my usual vpower

thoughts?

[-cj-]

What plugs are you running? How old are they? Did you play with your timing at all while tuning?

That's some really bad knock. I'd make sure everything is properly tied down and secured in the engine bay to eliminate the possibility of external noises being registered as knock. I'd also get back on your regular gas.

I'm leaning towards it being your plugs or maybe even injector seals. There's a way to test the injector seals listed on MSF.

One more thing you should try: leak test. I had some WOT knock when my hot pipe was leaking. Starscream is borrowing my tester but AFAIK, he's done with it. You just need an air compressor.

(Does your clutch vibrate/pulsate?)

[horto]

What plugs are you running? How old are they? Did you play with your timing at all while tuning?

That's some really bad knock. I'd make sure everything is properly tied down and secured in the engine bay to eliminate the possibility of external noises being registered as knock. I'd also get back on your regular gas.

I'm leaning towards it being your plugs or maybe even injector seals. There's a way to test the injector seals listed on MSF.

One more thing you should try: leak test. I had some WOT knock when my hot pipe was leaking. Starscream is borrowing my tester but AFAIK, he's done with it. You just need an air compressor.

(Does your clutch vibrate/pulsate?)

Denso ITV-22 one-step colder plugs have been in for around 5000km now. I have not changed any tuning parameters since calibrating my MAF, I've just put about 500km on the car. In fact, I didn't dick around with any tuning parameters outside of the MAF tables. The funny thing is, I didn't see any knock in my previous logs after I calibrated the MAF. Things were looking pretty stellar a couple days ago.

The clutch does not vibrate or pulse.

Might be worth doing a leak test.

[-cj-]

It might just be the gas causing the knock, since that's the only thing you changed. I only fill up at Sunoco/PetroCan... I think 99% of my fill ups since I bought my car, have been 94 Oct. If you're modding the car, you might as well use the best gas you can...

Definitely do a leak test though. It'll tell you a lot... and use (blue) loctite on your t-clamps lol... They will back out otherwise, especially on the hot side.

[Fobio]

If nothing mechanically changed, it could be the gas...tho we have much more stringent regulations, I've heard stories of "watered down" gas.

Mechanically speaking, it's possible that your "stellar for a couple of days" has put stress on the next weakest link and is now manifested in a leak...

[-cj-]

+1

I've been chasing leaks for ages. I finally figured one out that's been plaguing me for over 1.5 years and then discovered another one on my BPV. Incorrect hose size FTL. It's possible your next weakest link has shown it's face.....

[horto]

k, well I'll finish this tank, switch back to vpower 91 or ultra 94 and do some more logs. provided the knock remains consistent, gremlin hunting...

http://renovacoaching.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/stripe-gremlin.jpg?w=150&h=150

Actually I sort of suspect a new leak as well. I noticed on the drive home on Monday the exhaust isn't quite as loud/awesome as it was previously... maybe my ears playing tricks on me... maybe i'm imagining it... maybe it's a leak

[Fobio]

k, well I'll finish this tank, switch back to vpower 91 or ultra 94 and do some more logs. provided the knock remains consistent, gremlin hunting...

http://renovacoaching.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/stripe-gremlin.jpg?w=150&h=150

Actually I sort of suspect a new leak as well. I noticed on the drive home on Monday the exhaust isn't quite as loud/awesome as it was previously... maybe my ears playing tricks on me... maybe i'm imagining it... maybe it's a leak

don't feed your Mogwai after 11...and no water...ancient chinese secrets...lol...

in the meantime, don't wait til you're done this tank...I mean you eventually use it up, but you can also try a bottle of octane booster.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

k, well I'll finish this tank, switch back to vpower 91 or ultra 94 and do some more logs. provided the knock remains consistent, gremlin hunting...

http://renovacoaching.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/stripe-gremlin.jpg?w=150&h=150

Actually I sort of suspect a new leak as well. I noticed on the drive home on Monday the exhaust isn't quite as loud/awesome as it was previously... maybe my ears playing tricks on me... maybe i'm imagining it... maybe it's a leak

There's also the possibility that, if the pump is a "blendy", there was more 87 remaining in the lines than usual and you got the short end of the stick.

[horto]

dumped a bottle of fuel injector cleaner into my gas tank and filled up with ultra 94 today, flipped the map to 93 octane. we'll see how see runs down the highways tomorrow.

[-cj-]

Shoulda left it on the existing map... I think that's one of the ways you test for injector seal failure.... If the knock stays after adding higher octane fuel, then it's your seals. But whatevs, at least you get to play around with more power in the meantime. Just keep an eye on your knock....

[horto]

There's gotta be a post-MAF leak. I thought my ears were playing tricks on me (or I'm getting deaf), but everyone out tonight agreed that my car (w/ DP) was WAY quieter than the last time I was out. Must find leaky gremlin...

[BlueStreak]

Horto, I'll be wrenching on my car all day tomorrow with a friend installing a new turbo and have a boost leak checker in posession. If you want, you can pass by my place and I can give you a 5 minute spiel on how to use it and you can go to town on the driveway. I'm in Richmond Hill.

That is, as long as your turbo inlet pipe is stock sized...

[Fobio]

a little off topic, but a compression test session is likely a service that we should offer.

I don't know who "we" is tho...lol...good looking out boys!

[horto]

ok, here's a new set of logs.

my spidey sense is up... the exhaust is quieter than it was right after putting the DP on... I thought it was just my ears, but everyone else agrees. The car was mysteriously knocking badly a few weeks ago (on 3 different tanks of gas), but now not anymore. I haven't changed ANYTHING on my tune (v1.08 stg 2 sf 91 oct+maf calib). I had the car at Jimmy's on Monday and he said I was crazy. He checked the exhaust bolts on the underside of the car and everything is torqued. Didn't wrench on the intake track, however the car appears to be holding boost fine (albeit perhaps boost spiking slightly). however WGDC seems totally whack? it was high like this before I did the MAF calibration, then it was perfect, now it seems to be the only thing out of whack?

anyway hopefully you guys can tell me if i'm :loco or not

[BlueStreak]

If that were my car, I would check for a boost leak as a first point. A pegged WGDC for a Stage 2 car at ~16PSI is just off.

I see alot of potential in unlocking some serious power in your tune though. Your car should be a lot faster than what I'm seeing here.

I'll be working on my car (AGAIN. argh.) this Saturday morning/early afternoon as I have some boost leak gremlins to attend to post big turbo install. You can swing by my place to use my boost leak checker and seal everything properly.

[horto]

If that were my car, I would check for a boost leak as a first point. A pegged WGDC for a Stage 2 car at ~16PSI is just off.

I see alot of potential in unlocking some serious power in your tune though. Your car should be a lot faster than what I'm seeing here.

I'll be working on my car (AGAIN. argh.) this Saturday morning/early afternoon as I have some boost leak gremlins to attend to post big turbo install. You can swing by my place to use my boost leak checker and seal everything properly.

I have a wedding on Saturday :( But yeah... ****ing gremlins. How about Friday?

[BlueStreak]

I'll let you know. I have to meet someone that wants to have a look at the family snowmobile that is up for sale so it'll have to work around that.

[horto]

popped the hood at lunch b/c the car was running like poop (sluggish in low rpm, could be the humidity). discovered a broken SRI mount. maybe more... need to start wrenchin'. bah.

edit: broken SRI mount = engine noise = triggering my knock sensor? hmm (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/images/icons/icon3.png)

[horto]

Resulting of a wrenching session on Friday night with bluestreak (thanks buddy!)
- Found and removed broken Cobb SRI bracket, which may have been clanging metal-on-metal against the bottom of the battery box mount erroneously contributing to knock
- Boost leak test showed no sign of boost leak in the intake tract
- car is still mysteriously quiet (even my dad noticed last night at a wedding, lol)
- testing first boost-based tune (still needs further tweaking)
- cobb AP live datalogging to laptop is AWESOME