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View Full Version : Anyone tried E85 yet ?



speed77
10-08-2011, 01:16 AM
With lots of talk over on MSF about E85, I was wondering if anyone in the GTA has tried it yet? I did a little research and found that it was available at a UPI station in Guelph.

http://www.upienergylp.com/aboutUs/findGasBar.php

Fobio
10-08-2011, 01:19 AM
I was going to ask, are you sure they have it? I guess I should give them a call. I heard the gov't is pulling all funding for ethanol and there will be no more available.

I'd bring back at least 60L and sapce it out over 3 - 4 tanks.

TheMAN
10-08-2011, 03:06 AM
I wouldn't store it for too long...
ethanol is hygroscopic and it'll easily phase separate in a matter of months

besides that, the fuel system and ECU isn't designed to handle it... plus ethanol has a low MON, which is actually more important than RON... so sure it's "high octane", but it's no true substitute for race gas!

slam525i
10-08-2011, 03:22 AM
I'd hate to think what E85 would do to our fuel system, let alone the engine itself. AFAIK, our fuel systems are only rated for like 10 or 15% ethanol.

speed77
10-08-2011, 10:00 PM
I was going to ask, are you sure they have it? I guess I should give them a call. I heard the gov't is pulling all funding for ethanol and there will be no more available.

I'd bring back at least 60L and space it out over 3 - 4 tanks.

I tried a google maps street view, the sign on the road said E85. I'm not sure how old the street view is for that area....

I'm not too far from Guelph, maybe I'll go for a ride and find out if they still have it.

With respect to phase separation, I know that you can get Stabil designed for marine applications using Ethanol enriched fuels. I'm thinking that adding the stabilizer would address these concerns.

speed77
10-08-2011, 10:04 PM
I'd hate to think what E85 would do to our fuel system, let alone the engine itself. AFAIK, our fuel systems are only rated for like 10 or 15% ethanol.

There are guys on MSF making big power on E85 with no real negative effects to the car. E85 allows you to run more boost, more timing,and leaner A/F ratios, also generally lower EGTs. All around it appears to be a cheap alternative to "real" race gas. Main problem right now is availability.

taz4432
10-08-2011, 10:41 PM
There are guys on MSF making big power on E85 with no real negative effects to the car. E85 allows you to run more boost, more timing,and leaner A/F ratios, also generally lower EGTs. All around it appears to be a cheap alternative to "real" race gas. Main problem right now is availability.

But they're running only E85, correct? Or are they mixing it in with the gasoline? I'd think if it's the latter that meth-injection is probably a good way to go to achieve the aforementioned 'pluses' of using E85. Also, I'd think it'd be quite hard to keep a consistant mix of E85/Fuel which means proper tuning would be hard to...

And yes, ethanol will allow for more boost/timing/leaner/etc., but typically you need about 20-30% more ethanol than gas (assuming the use of only ethanol), so mileage goes down and you need a system capable of flowing a lot more fuel, which, with the MS3 DI setup, is an issue with gasoline as it is. That being said, assuming a capable setup is used, then there should be no issues switching back and forth between gas and E85, but it will require keeping a laptop/tuning software on hand to do the switch.

Also, as mentioned, there's really only the gas station in Guelph to get E85 in Southern Ontario (possibly all of Ontario???) unless you're ordering in a large shipment. I know at UWaterloo we have it brought in for us for our Alternative Fuels/other teams, but we have a large storage tank where it is kept. I suppose if you switched to it for use 100% of the time you could probably do something similar, especially if there are other vehicles in your household that could make use of it (FlexFuel vehicles, etc.).

Fobio
10-09-2011, 12:39 AM
I tried a google maps street view, the sign on the road said E85. I'm not sure how old the street view is for that area....

I'm not too far from Guelph, maybe I'll go for a ride and find out if they still have it.

With respect to phase separation, I know that you can get Stabil designed for marine applications using Ethanol enriched fuels. I'm thinking that adding the stabilizer would address these concerns.

Let me know how it goes, Aleks. BlueStreak and I have been throwing the idea of messing with an E85 tune for sh!ts and giggles...

To address the majority of concerns, proper storage with Stabil, along with one of those fuel filters off a Mustang or something will do the trick for the fuel system.

Those of you who actually read MSF will know that:

1. Running more fuel for power is NEVER a concern for those looking to make more power.

2. That ppl are already making good HP running mixes AND straight E85.

3. Scaling the timing and fuel tables to account for the extra load produced, and extra fuel needed is achievable yet, to a certain extent, problematic.

4. Meth and eth are not the same...and thus ran for different reasons, EVENTHO, the expected results maybe similar. However, NO ONE I know is squeezing 50+whp out of any form of meth injection....like they're doing with some form of E85.

5. The MS3 has been doing and already does fine with E85 done by knowledgeable ppl...anyone who claims to read 95% of MS3 threads would know that.

Nothing beats real world knowledge...

Fobio
10-09-2011, 12:52 PM
Here's a thread from a recent convert to 100% E85 on MSF. Start reading taz...

Bozo's 100% E85 Swap (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f541/bozos-100-e85-swap-93490/)

Here's the thread that started it all...only in April/2011. When the Americans are motivated, they get shit done fast. More reading for you taz....

E85 Discussion - HPFP lubrication and Flow issues (http://www.mazdaspeedforums.org/forum/f303/e85-discussion-hpfp-lubrication-flow-issues-79030/)

This technical hurdle has been quickly overcame. Everything else is pie.

stevenma188
10-09-2011, 01:17 PM
FYI I live in Guelph, and as far as I can tell that UPI still is selling E85. This is current up to about a week ago when I drove past the place last.

Impressive
10-09-2011, 02:06 PM
Would it make a different to a regular MZ3 engine to go with E85? If so, maybe I'll have to check it out.

Fobio
10-09-2011, 02:15 PM
FYI I live in Guelph, and as far as I can tell that UPI still is selling E85. This is current up to about a week ago when I drove past the place last.

Thanks. We'll start making plans.


Would it make a different to a regular MZ3 engine to go with E85? If so, maybe I'll have to check it out.

No...and you will potentially damage your fuel system without prior pre-cautions. Like Ultra94, you will have to be tuned for it to benefit.