Speeding ticket near Guelph. 30 over. Any suggestions from experience in Guelph?

[NetFace]

Was heading to a work assignment for a week, was speeding badly to make it there before dark.

I was approaching the bunch of cars, cop being the last one. Was actually going to pass, when i realized smokey was the caboose.

Cherries came on. Arm out the window for me to pullover.

I felt awful for the whole week. :bang

I have to act now its day 8 of 15. I have never fought a ticket before. I have had small ones i accepted, never this bad. I am planning to contact X Copper and Pointts today.



Any suggestions on who to deal with?



I am going to contact Pointts Whitby. The ticket is under the City of Guelph, not sure if i have to deal with Guelph ticket-fighters.
Read a lot of other traffic ticket forums. I wont be speeding again anytime soon, so no need to condemn me (unless you really want to :P )

[S.F.W.]

Be careful with X Copper and Pointts a lot of those agencies will take a plea for you, and that does not help you. You either have the charges dismissed/dropped or pay the fine and deal with insurance. A reduction does not help.

[NetFace]

My main goal is to protect my insurance rate.... The only way is for a not guilty plea, i get the redocution does not help.

However, What do you mean by "they will take a plea for you". ? Thanks

[m_bisson]

I think you're out of luck on this one. Your only chance is if the cop doesn't show up for court, which happens a lot less than people lead you to believe.

[S.F.W.]

My main goal is to protect my insurance rate.... The only way is for a not guilty plea, i get the redocution does not help.

However, What do you mean by "they will take a plea for you". ? Thanks

Means often times if you hire these companies they say we will fight the ticket for you. Then after the court date, they tell you we made a deal got it reduced to 15 over. They say they won for you. But really, still guilty=still lost.

[NetFace]

Ive read about the cop showing up thing..... If i were the cop and got paid overtime + minimum 6 hours i would not miss any court dates!

I honestly dont know what i can to do disprove the cops evidence.. but i have heard so many success stories :(

[S.F.W.]

I think you're out of luck on this one. Your only chance is if the cop doesn't show up for court, which happens a lot less than people lead you to believe.
Many more options outside of hoping the cop does not show up. A good paralegal or lawyer with experience knows many other techniques.

They will also charge you more than Pointts type services though.

[m_bisson]

Late for work isn't an excuse. Someone dying in the hospital, wife giving birth, etc (real emergencies) would likely work.

Know anyone who's died around the time of your ticket?

[S.F.W.]

Late for work isn't an excuse. Someone dying in the hospital, wife giving birth, etc (real emergencies) would likely work.

Know anyone who's died around the time of your ticket?

Let's look at this another way. How did the officer gauge your speed ? Did he have a radar gun ? When was it last calibrated ? When was his last refresher course ? Was he pacing you? Based on what ? The speedometer in his cruiser ? The flow of traffic ?

[gta_driver]

I've been to court several times, and witnessed these "paralegal" services talk on behalf of their clients. They say "so and so is willing to admit to the lesser charge, pay the fine, blah blah". They don't even try for 80% of their clients, if not more.

At the end, i can get exactly the same result by showing up and pleading with the prosecutor before the session starts.

Money wasted.

I used a lawyer just once, and he got the entire charge dismissed.

I haven't gotten a speeding ticket since 2008, mostly because my driving habits adjusted, and I'm not 22 anymore :)

[NetFace]

I was approaching a group of 6 cars, going about 120.

He said he clocked me at 121, which i believe unfortunatley..

he reduced it on the spot, which, is apparently in the evidence against me.

I believe they have running meters all the time now? I only was behind him for 10 seconds, which is all it took for me to catch up to him.. but i think that was enough for his radar to get a reading. I guess they have them reading at all times-this is what i gathered from another thread.

I was going to use the excuse: the abonrmallly large clump/ group of cars was going 75km/h *(due to the cop)* and i was accelerating to pass quikcly and safley. but an acceleration of 40km/hr seems excessive....

I was told by xcopper that they could potentially increase the fine back up to 41 over, which is the same demerit points, just an increase in the fine of like 40 bucks or something insignificant..


My goal now is to settle with prosecuter for less of a speed... i dont have any reason this should be totally dropped besides the one above


X copper quoted me 300 plus tax. the fine right now is 220 payable

[NetFace]

driving habits slowly adjusting ;)

[Hotsky]

I had a ticket got going thu a yellow light in Guelph (female cop...) anyways I went to see justice of the piece and accepted the reduced charge. $110 vs $180 fine and 0 points vs 3! The lame part is that I still had to show up for court date and plea guilty to the reduced charge. Perhaps I could've won the ticket (in my cercumstanc) but I didn't want to risk it at the time. This was some 3 - 4 years ago.

btw I went to X coppers or one of those other places and they also quoted me $300, which wasn't worth it.

[jaimie08mazda3]

Got 2 tickets in Guelph so far. 1 was a 35 over by a power tripping rookie and I was 17. His answer when I said can you lower it as I just bought the car and I don't want my insurance to go up. His answer was "well maybe your insurance won't care" and handed me the ticket. Got H.E.L.P to fight the ticket and they literally got nothing dropped. My advice is to go yourself and fight it. Explain the situation and maybe you can get it dropped. The last time I got pulled over (Acton) I got a failure to yield. Cop ended up having no notes and I got the ticket withdrawn. You never know. Just outta curiosity where did you get pulled over?

[XTOTHEL]

I got pulled over in Guelph once, for "going almost 70" in a 60. Though he didn't pull me over for that specifically, he said it was dangerous for me to accelerate really fast off of a red so I could pass a car on the left.

As for your ticket, I don't think you really have many options now except for fighting it. What did he reduce it to? Who is your insurance provider? Maybe you can ask your insurance company if a minor speeding ticket or a 0 point conviction will affect your record, if so, how long will it stay on your insurance. Also if you're going to fight it, be ready to take the day off.

[NetFace]

I can get the day off

it was actually Hwy 109, it was on the outskirts of guelph for sure.

I was going 121 and he reduced it to 110, in an 80.

I am getting 4 points and 220 fine. It would have been 4 points with a 300 ish fine.

If i go to court there is a chance they will raise it back up to the original fine. The cops notes would say what he clocked me at. Those two points both according to x copper lady. I also asked about fighting it to the cop he said i would have to come back to guelph :(

Theres a CHANCE it was not filed..
but this cop seemed somewhat to the book, saying he wouldnt be doing his job properly if he let me off. My name on the ticket looks alot like "BRENOAN" not "BRENDAN". Called them today but they were closed, i give that a 5% chance of happening. it happened before! unnecessary noise ticket was let off, cop never filed it!

[XTOTHEL]

I think based on that it stayed 4 points you should fight it. I also don't think they can increase the fine back to what it was. Also if you're going to call your insurance company, don't mention who you are to them. Just do a general inquiry.

[jaimie08mazda3]

I can get the day off

it was actually Hwy 109, it was on the outskirts of guelph for sure.

I was going 121 and he reduced it to 110, in an 80.

I am getting 4 points and 220 fine. It would have been 4 points with a 300 ish fine.

If i go to court there is a chance they will raise it back up to the original fine. The cops notes would say what he clocked me at. Those two points both according to x copper lady. I also asked about fighting it to the cop he said i would have to come back to guelph :(

Theres a CHANCE it was not filed..
but this cop seemed somewhat to the book, saying he wouldnt be doing his job properly if he let me off. My name on the ticket looks alot like "BRENOAN" not "BRENDAN". Called them today but they were closed, i give that a 5% chance of happening. it happened before! unnecessary noise ticket was let off, cop never filed it!

Well I don't think they can bring it up to the original ticket of 121 because it was written on the ticket saying 110. Then again its your word against them which sucks. and highway 109? Maybe 129? Lol. Trying to figure out where that is. Anyway regardless of the fact he did spell your name wrong won't mean a thing. When I got my ticket they spelt my license plate BCBD A50 and my name was spelt Jamie (rather then Jaimie). I thought because of that I would get off on that charge. Nope they would just correct it. I would go and fight it yourself and tell them what happened. Could get a 20 over if the judge is understanding. All depends.

[Lmmorden]

Wait you were going 41 above in an 80 ... ?? ...

My suggestion is learn from this! Seriously... It's not worth killing yourself or someone else being late for work.. You need to plan man..

[loki]

Wait you were going 41 above in an 80 ... ?? ...

My suggestion is learn from this! Seriously... It's not worth killing yourself or someone else being late for work.. You need to plan man..

121 in an 80 is no big deal speadwise

Shit I swear people drive 120 up the Bayview extension and the speed limit there is 60

[Lmmorden]

121 in an 80 is no big deal speadwise

Shit I swear people drive 120 up the Bayview extension and the speed limit there is 60

Really? You justify 40 over with what's going on on bayview?

[loki]

Really? You justify 40 over with what's going on on bayview?

I'm not justifying anything I'm saying it happens all the time and it may not be as reduculous as it sounds

You can drive at 80kph in an unsafe manner in an 80 zone

This is why threads like this are silly

[jaimie08mazda3]

Thing of it is on the outskirts of Guelph its a lot of country roads. And what do a lot of people do on country seemingly deserted roads? They speed. I grew up in this area and roads going to Rockwood, Fergus, Elora, Guelph etc have little police supervision. So people generally speed on them. Not saying 41 over is a good thing but on back roads I can see it as I too find myself going a bit faster on a back road rather then on the main road.

[JonathanB]

Damn - that sucks! The last time I was caught for speeding was in 2005 when a cop stopped me for going 17 over the limit on the 407. He knocked it down to 15 over, and it was a $50 fee or something. Total douche bag. It wasn't even worth fighting the ticket because it was in the Peel region. He was clearly trying to meet his quota that day.

Anyway, don't get too down on yourself. I can't offer you any earth-shattering advice other than to say if I were you, I'd try fighting it to at least reduce it. Not much worse can happen. Good luck. :)

[Lmmorden]

I'm not justifying anything I'm saying it happens all the time and it may not be as reduculous as it sounds

You can drive at 80kph in an unsafe manner in an 80 zone

This is why threads like this are silly

Good point

[zzz3]

File for a court date first. And before you hire anyone request disclosure to see what they have on you and if any mistakes were made (guage whether you can fight it on your own). Finally, x-copper et al are all garbage. The only reputable paralegal service is redline but they cost half a grand at the minimum.

[Innovator]

Check the box to fight fight it, and file for the disclosure like zzz3 stated. Then you can examine your options. If all the ducks are in a line all x-copper etc will do for you is plea it down likely cutting it in half. You'll still have a ticket and then another bill from them so you will pay more all around. The cop not showing up for the ticket is a rare occurrence. The day I had my Court date they had just booked all of the people fighting tickets by this one cop for the morning so he was there all day.

Even if you get the disclosure and see you are screwed, you will likely get a plea deal pretty easy and it will get cut down, especially if your record is not awful. I was pegged going 138 on the hwy 400. My plea went from a speeding 38 over with a penalty of 4 points and like $280 (Major infraction) to disobeying a street sign $110 fine and 2 points (Minor infraction) which did help a small amount on insurance.

So go to court see what they offer.

[m_bisson]

I was approaching a group of 6 cars, going about 120.



I was going to use the excuse: the abonrmallly large clump/ group of cars was going 75km/h *(due to the cop)* and i was accelerating to pass quikcly and safley. but an acceleration of 40km/hr seems excessive....



So, if the cop wasn't there, you would have tried to pass 6 cars at once?

I'm all for having a helpful car forum, but guys like you are the reason we have laws in the first place: common sense wasn't passed to you via DNA.
Pay the ticket, learn from this, and stop driving like a moron.

[geobur]

So, if the cop wasn't there, you would have tried to pass 6 cars at once?

I'm all for having a helpful car forum, but guys like you are the reason we have laws in the first place: common sense wasn't passed to you via DNA.
Pay the ticket, learn from this, and stop driving like a moron.

so many White Knights in this forum. I think he understands that 40 over was excessive, and that passing those cars was a bit much...But I grew up in a country area and you have tons of room on some of them....without knowing the conditions, or the section of road he was driving on, or if there was oncoming traffic...maybe people should keep their judgements to themselves...on many country roads there is lots of space to pass groups of cars, and unfortunately they follow each other so closely it isn't possible to pass 1 car at a time...

Like I said...if you have something valuable to add to his question great...if you want to play White Knight, hop on twitter, or facebook./rant

that being said...I would definitely attempt to fight it like others have said. File for disclosure and see what your options are, the difference between costs in tickets is nothing when looking at 4 points. You need to get the points reduced. Once you have all the information about your ticket, and any evidence the officer had. I would look into a proper lawyer or paralegal service like Redline, it may cost you more than the original ticket but again, in the long run on your insurance it would save you double if not triple what the insurance will cost you. (until the ticket falls off your record, I think 4 or 5 years for tickets?)

[CloudPump]

Check the box to fight fight it, and file for the disclosure like zzz3 stated. Then you can examine your options. If all the ducks are in a line all x-copper etc will do for you is plea it down likely cutting it in half. You'll still have a ticket and then another bill from them so you will pay more all around. The cop not showing up for the ticket is a rare occurrence. The day I had my Court date they had just booked all of the people fighting tickets by this one cop for the morning so he was there all day.

Even if you get the disclosure and see you are screwed, you will likely get a plea deal pretty easy and it will get cut down, especially if your record is not awful. I was pegged going 138 on the hwy 400. My plea went from a speeding 38 over with a penalty of 4 points and like $280 (Major infraction) to disobeying a street sign $110 fine and 2 points (Minor infraction) which did help a small amount on insurance.

So go to court see what they offer.

Speeding (38 over) is NOT a major infraction. This is a minor ticket.

All speeding tickets from 1km over to 49km over are minors. 50-59 over are major and 60+ is serious.

-Geoff

[CloudPump]

so many White Knights in this forum. I think he understands that 40 over was excessive, and that passing those cars was a bit much...But I grew up in a country area and you have tons of room on some of them....without knowing the conditions, or the section of road he was driving on, or if there was oncoming traffic...maybe people should keep their judgements to themselves...on many country roads there is lots of space to pass groups of cars, and unfortunately they follow each other so closely it isn't possible to pass 1 car at a time...

Like I said...if you have something valuable to add to his question great...if you want to play White Knight, hop on twitter, or facebook./rant

that being said...I would definitely attempt to fight it like others have said. File for disclosure and see what your options are, the difference between costs in tickets is nothing when looking at 4 points. You need to get the points reduced. Once you have all the information about your ticket, and any evidence the officer had. I would look into a proper lawyer or paralegal service like Redline, it may cost you more than the original ticket but again, in the long run on your insurance it would save you double if not triple what the insurance will cost you. (until the ticket falls off your record, I think 4 or 5 years for tickets?)

The points aren't that big a deal. They have no effect on insurance and unless you have a lot of other infractions, they aren't going to do anything to you. It takes 15 demerit points for your license to be suspended (G licensed drivers) and points come off your license after only two years. To get a demerit point suspension, you have to really deserve it.

Tickets are rateable against your insurance for three years.

-Geoff

[geobur]

The points aren't that big a deal. They have no effect on insurance and unless you have a lot of other infractions, they aren't going to do anything to you. It takes 15 demerit points for your license to be suspended (G licensed drivers) and points come off your license after only two years. To get a demerit point suspension, you have to really deserve it.

Tickets are rateable against your insurance for three years.

-Geoff


Cloudpump is the man when it comes to this topic.

But can hypothetically an insurance company raise someone's rates because of a ticket like this?

[CloudPump]

Cloudpump is the man when it comes to this topic.

But can hypothetically an insurance company raise someone's rates because of a ticket like this?

Certainly they can. But it would be no different than if he had a 1 over ticket or a failure to stop at sign or roadway marking ticket.

Insurance only classifies tickets in three categories: Minor, Major and Serious/Criminal. All tickets of each respective category are rated the same. Therefore a 1km over speeding ticket is going to have the exact same effect as a 49km over ticket.

-Geoff

[Nikhil Pali]

I just got off phone paying my ticket that I got in Guelph, came here on forum and saw you also got ticket in guelph. Was 25 over but cop dropped it to 15. I think there are too many cops out handing tickets in Guelph, hiding in behind every bush.

[geobur]

Certainly they can. But it would be no different than if he had a 1 over ticket or a failure to stop at sign or roadway marking ticket.

Insurance only classifies tickets in three categories: Minor, Major and Serious/Criminal. All tickets of each respective category are rated the same. Therefore a 1km over speeding ticket is going to have the exact same effect as a 49km over ticket.

-Geoff

So really unless he can completely get the charge dropped it isn't worth spending money to fight the ticket?

[Prezi]

Ive read about the cop showing up thing..... If i were the cop and got paid overtime + minimum 6 hours i would not miss any court dates!

I honestly dont know what i can to do disprove the cops evidence.. but i have heard so many success stories :(

Maybe a long shot... but:
Request for a copy of the officers notes, ect. If there is any inconsistency, you can argue against that if you plead not guilty...
I think you can also request for when the last time the radar gun was serviced. .. argue that the radar gun may be faulty, ect

I hope the best for you in this situation, tickets aren't fun!

[m_bisson]

so many White Knights in this forum. I think he understands that 40 over was excessive, and that passing those cars was a bit much...But I grew up in a country area and you have tons of room on some of them....without knowing the conditions, or the section of road he was driving on, or if there was oncoming traffic...maybe people should keep their judgements to themselves...on many country roads there is lots of space to pass groups of cars, and unfortunately they follow each other so closely it isn't possible to pass 1 car at a time...

Like I said...if you have something valuable to add to his question great...if you want to play White Knight, hop on twitter, or facebook./rant

that being said...I would definitely attempt to fight it like others have said. File for disclosure and see what your options are, the difference between costs in tickets is nothing when looking at 4 points. You need to get the points reduced. Once you have all the information about your ticket, and any evidence the officer had. I would look into a proper lawyer or paralegal service like Redline, it may cost you more than the original ticket but again, in the long run on your insurance it would save you double if not triple what the insurance will cost you. (until the ticket falls off your record, I think 4 or 5 years for tickets?)

The value is in the lesson, which I'm trying to help him learn. If he speeds this much and gets away with it, what do you think he'll do in the future?

Also, don't start calling me names or telling me my input isn't useful. I don't like that.

[geobur]

The value is in the lesson, which I'm trying to help him learn. If he speeds this much and gets away with it, what do you think he'll do in the future?

Also, don't start calling me names or telling me my input isn't useful. I don't like that.


So, if the cop wasn't there, you would have tried to pass 6 cars at once?

I'm all for having a helpful car forum, but guys like you are the reason we have laws in the first place: common sense wasn't passed to you via DNA.
Pay the ticket, learn from this, and stop driving like a moron.

oh I am sorry...I must have missed the memo that said it is ok for m_bisson to call other members names but it isn't ok to call him something indirectly.

[CloudPump]

So really unless he can completely get the charge dropped it isn't worth spending money to fight the ticket?

That's about what it comes down to.

-Geoff

[m_bisson]

He is a moron for speeding like that. I'm not doing anything wrong by offering advice. If he doesn't like being a moron, he should stop acting like one.

Hmm, so let's see.... What makes my advice so worthless? Is it 5 years of school and an honour degree in this field of study? Yeah, maybe that means nothing.... Oh wait! I could actually testify in court as an "expert" witness. Hmm, neat.
Criminals who get criminal records and actually spend time in jail have about a 30 percent chance of ending up in jail again. What do you think the rate of reoffending is for people who commit minor crimes and get away with it vs those who pay their tickets/fines (hta, tpa, lla)?

Pay the ticket, deal with insurance for 3 years, and don't speed again.

[geobur]

He is a moron for speeding like that. I'm not doing anything wrong by offering advice. If he doesn't like being a moron, he should stop acting like one.

Hmm, so let's see.... What makes my advice so worthless? Is it 5 years of school and an honour degree in this field of study? Yeah, maybe that means nothing.... Oh wait! I could actually testify in court as an "expert" witness. Hmm, neat.
Criminals who get criminal records and actually spend time in jail have about a 30 percent chance of ending up in jail again. What do you think the rate of reoffending is for people who commit minor crimes and get away with it vs those who pay their tickets/fines (hta, tpa, lla)?

Pay the ticket, deal with insurance for 3 years, and don't speed again.

hmm you really found it necessary to inform us all of your education? Good job! I don't know how we can possibly live up to your superiority. Next time just attach your resume...might be easier

[CloudPump]

He is a moron for speeding like that. I'm not doing anything wrong by offering advice. If he doesn't like being a moron, he should stop acting like one.

Hmm, so let's see.... What makes my advice so worthless? Is it 5 years of school and an honour degree in this field of study? Yeah, maybe that means nothing.... Oh wait! I could actually testify in court as an "expert" witness. Hmm, neat.
Criminals who get criminal records and actually spend time in jail have about a 30 percent chance of ending up in jail again. What do you think the rate of reoffending is for people who commit minor crimes and get away with it vs those who pay their tickets/fines (hta, tpa, lla)?

Pay the ticket, deal with insurance for 3 years, and don't speed again.

If you call people names, you're going to get called names. If you don't like being called names, don't call other people names.

-Geoff

[jeffjones]

Its a long read but very informative.
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforum/showthread.php?59068-What-to-do-when-you-want-to-fight-your-ticket-in-court-(new)

DO NOT REQUEST DISCLOSURE RIGHT AWAY, you want to wait until after you have received your notice of trial and then request it. (This way you have a better chance of not receiving it by your court date and have a better chance for an 11b, If they try to give it to you at your trial, refuse it and ask for a new court date to review and prepare your defence)

.
and if anything you have asked for is not included make sure to ask for it again as this will take more time as well)

Sample disclosure request:

DISCLOSURE REQUEST



Date: April 15, 20xx
Offence Number: 123456789A
Offence Date: December 22, 2010
Defendant: [YOUR NAME HERE]
Charge: Speeding 148 km/h in a 100 km/h zone
Court date: October 22, 2012 [ASSUMING THAT YOU HAVE A DATE ALREADY]
Court Location: Room A1, 465 Davis Drive West, Newmarket, Ontario

Dear Sir or Madam,

I am scheduled to appear in court room A1 on October 22, 2012 at 9:30AM to respond to a charge of Speeding contrary to the Ontario Highway Traffic Act. I request a complete disclosure of the case against me, including but not limited to the following items:

1. Copies of all witness statements, including explanations of shorthand, or coded notes by officers.
2. The officer’s notes regarding the alleged infractions, including explanations or shorthand, or coded notes by the officer.
3. Both sides of the officer’s copy of the Ticket.
4. Information about any speed monitoring devices used in the alleged offence.
5. A copy of the officer’s training record, or certificate of qualification specific to said speed-monitoring device, or speed estimation device.
6. A copy of the calibration, and repair history of any speed-monitoring device used in this alleged offence.
7. A copy of the operator’s manual for said speed-monitoring device.
8. A copy of the officers call sheet from the day of the allegation.
9. And any other document that the Crown, or Crown’s witness, may rely on at trial.


As I am sure you realize, I require timely disclosure in order to make full answer and defense to the charge. Thank you, for you assistance, and please forward all requested information to above noted address.

Thank you.


[YOUR NAME HERE]
123 Something Street
Vaughan, Ontario
L1L 1L1




__________________________________________________ ______

Here is another one, asking for even more details:


DISCLOSURE REQUEST
Re: Ticket Offence # ___________________


Dear Provincial Prosecutor,

I am scheduled to appear in courtroom _______ on ___________, at ___________ to answer to a charge of Speeding, contrary to section 128 of the Highway Traffic Act.

In order to make full answer and defense to the alleged charge, I hereby request complete disclosure of the case against me. Please include the following items:

A) both sides of the officer's copy of the ticket;
B) a detailed legible copy of all officers notes regarding the alleged offence;
C) a copy of the officer's training record with respect to operating radar speed monitoring devices to include all certification and training dates and times for the last 5 years;
D) the officer's log for radar/laser speed equipment testing on the alleged offence day;
E) the make, model, serial number, purchase date, software revision, and repair history log of the radar speed monitoring device used;
F) copies of the manufacturer's specifications for testing the 'speed monitoring device' ;
G) a detailed description of the settings the radar speed monitoring device was in a the specific time of the alleged offence;
H) detailed accuracy specifications of the radar device in moving mode and stationary mode which is obtained via the manufacture and or authorized distributor;
I) information regarding the last speed violation written prior to the alleged offence to include the time, date location and speed of that offence;
J) the daily inspection log for the police vehicle used in detection of the alleged speed offence on the alleged offence date;
K) any document the Crown may rely on at trial;

If any of the above items are unavailable, please specify the reason(s) and have an authority certify the facts, which will be used as an affidavit at trial. Failure to respond to each item requested may deny the accused to make FULL ANSWER AND DEFENCE.

As I am sure you realize, I require timely disclosure in order to make full answer and defense to the charge. Thank you for your assistance, and please send me all the information to the address below. If more time is needed please contact me for resolution and or court date changes.

Sincerely yours,

[YOUR NAME]
123 Farm Rd
Barrie, Ontario
L4M 1L6

[JonathanB]

m_bisson I see where you're coming from. 41 over is pretty high, but the OP is well aware of this. He already feels down about it. Why put more salt in the wound and call him a moron? He's very remorseful, and I believe him when he says he won't be doing it again. We have all made bad judgements while driving at some point. Some of us have just been fortunate enough to not get caught.

[jaygb48]

That's about what it comes down to.

-Geoff
CloudPump while we are on the topic... Quick question.

I got a ticket about 1.5 years ago. I never mentioned it to my insurance company nor did they contact me about it. I got my renewal for insurance and my rates actually went down. I have heard that the insurance companies need to check your record in order to know you have tickets/points attached to your record. With that said I have also heard that the only time insurance companies check your record is if they are quoting you on a new policy and not when you are renewing with them unless they have reason to check.

This is all word of mouth... Can you confirm? You seem like the expert on this topic.

Thanks!
Jay

[aris]

@CloudPump (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/member.php?u=21951) while we are on the topic... Quick question.

I got a ticket about 1.5 years ago. I never mentioned it to my insurance company nor did they contact me about it. I got my renewal for insurance and my rates actually went down. I have heard that the insurance companies need to check your record in order to know you have tickets/points attached to your record. With that said I have also heard that the only time insurance companies check your record is if they are quoting you on a new policy and not when you are renewing with them unless they have reason to check.

This is all word of mouth... Can you confirm? You seem like the expert on this topic.

Thanks!
Jay

If they didn't check your driving record when your policy renewed then don't worry about.... I wouldn't say anything lol

[jaygb48]

The value is in the lesson, which I'm trying to help him learn. If he speeds this much and gets away with it, what do you think he'll do in the future?

Also, don't start calling me names or telling me my input isn't useful. I don't like that.

No one listens to you when you talk down to people and call them names. If you can't take what you dish out... then that's something you need to speak to someone about.

Sad thing is you have some useful points but they are lost in your ignorant rant speaking down to the OP.

We all make mistakes... Get off the OP's back.

[CloudPump]

CloudPump while we are on the topic... Quick question.

I got a ticket about 1.5 years ago. I never mentioned it to my insurance company nor did they contact me about it. I got my renewal for insurance and my rates actually went down. I have heard that the insurance companies need to check your record in order to know you have tickets/points attached to your record. With that said I have also heard that the only time insurance companies check your record is if they are quoting you on a new policy and not when you are renewing with them unless they have reason to check.

This is all word of mouth... Can you confirm? You seem like the expert on this topic.

Thanks!
Jay

They may have checked and know about it. Not all companies raise rates at one minor violation. Some companies wait until two before they add on a surcharge, you may be with a company that lets one minor violation fly. Other companies like Aviva give a 15% conviction free discount and if they find out you have a ticket, you will see an increase. Aviva also offers a minor conviction protector, much like an accident waiver, where the first ticket is forgiven and you maintain your discount.

That said, they might not have pulled your record. Pulling driver history reports is a large expense for insurance companies. They run an algorithm for policies set to renew and certain people get picked for a report while others do not. You are under no obligation to call your insurance company every time you get a ticket and let them know. If they did not pull your reports and they are giving you a better rate than you deserve... say nothing. If an insurance company has made an error in your favour when issuing a policy, they have only 60 days from policy inception to correct this error. On day 61, they have to live with their mistake for the rest of the year. If an insurance company has made an error to your detriment, you have the entire policy term to get this corrected.

Companies always pull reports for new policies. Some companies do this before the policy is issued, thus ensuring a correct rate, others do this after the fact and adjust your premium higher if you were not honest in your disclosure.

-Geoff

Edit: Please remember that tickets matter, points do not. This is one myth that never seems to die.

[NetFace]

CloudPump Geoff thanks for your input!

B_misson I realize these laws are to protect people, include myself.

Thanks Prezi, i will request. New to this whole process so it will be a learning experience in many ways.


Nikhil Pali thats a coincidence!! Did you pay the set fine, no arguing at all?

[NetFace]

just saw this.

at least i didnt get rocks throw at my car!


http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2014/06/02/man-throws-rocks-at-40000_n_5435410.html

[thanu31]

I would suggest Redline too.

I currently filed a speeding ticket with them and they are doing their best to drop it. its a 40 over ticket :(

They are pricey but id rather spend money on them.

[CloudPump]

I would suggest Redline too.

I currently filed a speeding ticket with them and they are doing their best to drop it. its a 40 over ticket :(

They are pricey but id rather spend money on them.

From a professional standpoint, this is what I don't understand. Unless they get the ticket completely dropped... why fight it? If they reduce it and you pay a smaller fine, often the fine combined with the cost of the legal services is more than the ticket was initially and it still has the EXACT SAME IMPACT on your insurance.

So you pay more in total (reduced fine + legal costs) > original fine and you saved nothing on your insurance.

This is why I always council people to pay minor tickets right away and not fight them. Major tickets should always be contested and attempted to be reduced to minors.

-Geoff

[thanu31]

From a professional standpoint, this is what I don't understand. Unless they get the ticket completely dropped... why fight it? If they reduce it and you pay a smaller fine, often the fine combined with the cost of the legal services is more than the ticket was initially and it still has the EXACT SAME IMPACT on your insurance.

So you pay more in total (reduced fine + legal costs) > original fine and you saved nothing on your insurance.

This is why I always council people to pay minor tickets right away and not fight them. Major tickets should always be contested and attempted to be reduced to minors.

-Geoff

I usually would reduce myself and pay it but I can't really afford to get another speeding ticket on my record. So I'm trying to get it dropped and willing to spend a bit to do so. I'm willing to take the risk of not getting it dropped and wasting my money rather then not trying at all.

I choose redline because my chances seem higher then any other paralegal

[loki]

Speeding (38 over) is NOT a major infraction. This is a minor ticket.

All speeding tickets from 1km over to 49km over are minors. 50-59 over are major and 60+ is serious.

-Geoff


He is a moron for speeding like that. I'm not doing anything wrong by offering advice. If he doesn't like being a moron, he should stop acting like one.

Hmm, so let's see.... What makes my advice so worthless? Is it 5 years of school and an honour degree in this field of study? Yeah, maybe that means nothing.... Oh wait! I could actually testify in court as an "expert" witness. Hmm, neat.
Criminals who get criminal records and actually spend time in jail have about a 30 percent chance of ending up in jail again. What do you think the rate of reoffending is for people who commit minor crimes and get away with it vs those who pay their tickets/fines (hta, tpa, lla)?

Pay the ticket, deal with insurance for 3 years, and don't speed again.

Next time you call someone a moron yet complain about people calling you names I'll ban you for 6 months

If you have a problem with that you can take it up with Aitch S.F.W. starscream Mr Wilson or wheoever on the mod team

And that goes for anyone on the forum willing to dish out their opinion but not able to be the receiver of anyone else's opinion

[starscream]

He is a moron for speeding like that. I'm not doing anything wrong by offering advice. If he doesn't like being a moron, he should stop acting like one.

Hmm, so let's see.... What makes my advice so worthless? Is it 5 years of school and an honour degree in this field of study? Yeah, maybe that means nothing.... Oh wait! I could actually testify in court as an "expert" witness. Hmm, neat.
Criminals who get criminal records and actually spend time in jail have about a 30 percent chance of ending up in jail again. What do you think the rate of reoffending is for people who commit minor crimes and get away with it vs those who pay their tickets/fines (hta, tpa, lla)?

Pay the ticket, deal with insurance for 3 years, and don't speed again.

LOL. you testify in court as a 'expert' witness, would have to be deemed by the court AS an expert witness for starters, and anyone else that is an expert witness wouldnt carry themselves in the same manner as you do...


A trial judge must determine on a voir dire whether the individual is qualified as an expert, and if so, what the "nature and scope of the proposed expert evidence" will be.[1] The qualification process is one of delineating the boundaries of the evidence and the language used. [2]

The judge cannot permit the expert to give an opinion on common matters or matters that the expert has no special skills, knowledge, or training.

To qualify a person as an expert, the evidence must meet the Mohan requirements: [3]

1.the opinion must be relevant;
2.the opinion must be necessary to assist the trier-of-fact to draw the correct inference;
3.the absence of any other exclusionary rule;
4.the required qualifications of the proposed expert.

The relevance requirement includes both logical relevance (the relationship between the evidence and the fact in issue it is being used to establish) and legal relevance (the probative value). (R. v. K.(A.), 1999 137 CCC 3d 225 (ONCA))

The necessity requirement is not a strict standard. It is necessary where it furnishes scientific information that is likely to be outside the experience and knowledge of the trier of fact.(R. v. B.(R.H.), [1994] 2 SCR 656)

Qualified expert evidence can nonetheless be excluded if: (R. v. D.D. [2000] 2 SCR 275)

1.the evidence would tend to usurp the duty of the trier of fact
2.the prejudicial effect outweighs the probative value
3.the time required outweighs its probative value
4.the cost required outweighs the probative value
5.the influence of the evidence outweighs the evidence's reliability.
The proposed expert must have some indicia of scientific knowledge. It cannot be admitted if the witness is giving personal opinions based on their experience, knowledge from "some" literature, and interviews. (R. v. Bedford (2000), 143 CCC 3d 311)

Expert evidence should be expected to be impartial to be admissible. There must not be any bias or appearance of bias.


You would FAIL as an expert witness on points 1 and 2 of the mohan requirements. Additionally your evidence would need to be impartial to be admissable, calling someone a moron...yeah... not impartial. Dont go around tossing crap like "I could actually testify as a expert witness" without having ALL the necessary qualifications to back it up, including NON-educationary requirements. Might want to be careful how you throw around your 5 years of education and an honor degree...not everyone has to have education to be intelligent or beable to see/smell bullshit ;).

Interesting that you call him a moron...you might also want to stop acting like one. I resonate with what loki; says as well.

[Aitch]

Next time you call someone a moron yet complain about people calling you names I'll ban you for 6 months

If you have a problem with that you can take it up with @Aitch (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/member.php?u=2301) @S.F.W. (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/member.php?u=2131) @starscream (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/member.php?u=5838) @Mr Wilson (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/member.php?u=10406) or wheoever on the mod team

And that goes for anyone on the forum willing to dish out their opinion but not able to be the receiver of anyone else's opinion

This.

Further off-topic posts will get deleted in here.

It may be worth just paying the ticket rather than fighting it, if you don't have other speeding tickets currently on your record. I am surprised that the officer was able to effectively radar clock you while you were approaching from the rear, is it common for the radar to be on all the time? Would be interesting to see what is in the disclosure of officer's notes.

[CloudPump]

Next time you call someone a moron yet complain about people calling you names I'll ban you for 6 months

If you have a problem with that you can take it up with Aitch S.F.W. starscream Mr Wilson or wheoever on the mod team

And that goes for anyone on the forum willing to dish out their opinion but not able to be the receiver of anyone else's opinion

Hey now, I didn't call anyone any names.

-Geoff

[aris]

Hey now, I didn't call anyone any names.

-Geoff
I don't think Loki was saying you did

[geobur]

Hey now, I didn't call anyone any names.

-Geoff

he was quoting your post for posterity in regards/and to back up the fact that 40 over is not a major infraction, thus not worthy of being called a moron. :P

he wasn't accusing you of calling anyone a moron. Nor was he threatening to ban you :P

relax lol

[m_bisson]

It was geo and I doing the name calling.

Anyways. I'm guessing it was OPP? Municipal police cars usually only have the car-mounted radar if it's a dedicated traffic unit. The officer wouldn't have had the hand-held radar pointed out the back window.
If you would have asked to see the radar I'm guessing you would have had to walk to the police car to view the radar.

[cwp_sedan]

Hey now, I didn't call anyone any names.

-Geoff

He wasn't referring to you.

[Prezi]

This.
It may be worth just paying the ticket rather than fighting it, if you don't have other speeding tickets currently on your record. I am surprised that the officer was able to effectively radar clock you while you were approaching from the rear, is it common for the radar to be on all the time? Would be interesting to see what is in the disclosure of officer's notes.

+1!

If you don't have any other infractions on our record... it may be in your best interest to go to the court date and take a deal with the prosecutor.
At one point (I was in university) I didn't have anything on my record, and I got a ticket for doing around 34km over the limit. Went to court and took a deal... on my next insurance renewal it went up maybe $12. I dealt with that for three years, which was ok with me. This could totally different for you.. . I'm with royal bank now (thieves), and I think they have an anonymous line for stuff like this.. . or did. Check if your insurer has one...

At least you didn't get an out of country ticket like I did in NY this past winter...

I say try and fight the ticket...which ever way best fits you!

[geobur]

If it has already been dropped and it is noted as such on the police report I doubt going in to plea will get you anything better, and I can almost guarantee in this area the officer will show up I got a ticket around the same area and thought that the demerit points were going to screw me (unfortunately before I knew about what CloudPump was mentioning earlier) so I paid one of those paralegal services to get the ticket lowered...but almost no one would take me because they said in that area the Police have nothing better to do so they almost never miss court dates.

You could try Redline, but I think at this point knowing what Cloudpump said I would just bite the bullet and pay the fine :/

it would have cost me $300 to get mine dropped from 30ish over to failure to obey a sign, from I think 3 demerit points to none...but luckily the paralegal I went through required $150 upfront and the remainder upon winning, well after a ton of problems we finally got my court date sorted got my ticket reduced, then he went out of business presumably as I have never received an invoice for the last half lol.

[gta_driver]

I had a ticket got going thu a yellow light in Guelph (female cop...) anyways I went to see justice of the piece and accepted the reduced charge. $110 vs $180 fine and 0 points vs 3! The lame part is that I still had to show up for court date and plea guilty to the reduced charge. Perhaps I could've won the ticket (in my cercumstanc) but I didn't want to risk it at the time. This was some 3 - 4 years ago.

btw I went to X coppers or one of those other places and they also quoted me $300, which wasn't worth it.

The interesting thing is that whether you had 0 points or 3 points made no difference to your insurance company, and the only thing you really saved was $70.
For $300, X-copper would've done the same thing, so good for you for not going with them.




As for your ticket, I don't think you really have many options now except for fighting it. What did he reduce it to? Who is your insurance provider? Maybe you can ask your insurance company if a minor speeding ticket or a 0 point conviction will affect your record, if so, how long will it stay on your insurance. Also if you're going to fight it, be ready to take the day off.

Most insurance companies will not change your rate for 1 minor infraction. Some won't even for 2, but I think that's rare.

They do not care how many points the infraction cost. You can have a speeding ticket for 40 km/h over, or for 10 km/h over, the end result is the same - 1 speeding ticket. So if the insurance company takes 1 ticket into account, you'll pay a higher rate, regardless of what your over speed was.



If i go to court there is a chance they will raise it back up to the original fine. The cops notes would say what he clocked me at. Those two points both according to x copper lady. I also asked about fighting it to the cop he said i would have to come back to guelph :(



They will only go based off what you were charged with. They cannot raise it. And in just about every case, if you plead with the prosecutor before the trial, you can get it down even further.


I think based on that it stayed 4 points you should fight it. I also don't think they can increase the fine back to what it was. Also if you're going to call your insurance company, don't mention who you are to them. Just do a general inquiry.

Points don't matter unless you're planning on racking up more points over the next 3 years to the point of losing the license. Your insurance rate is based on number of tickets, not the points.

Second, don't trust the insurance company answer either. They can tell you one thing on the phone, but in actuality can do a different thing at the time of renewal.

Edited. No need to rehash...

Edited the post, was addressed already :)



Edit: Please remember that tickets matter, points do not. This is one myth that never seems to die.

This myth is further propagated by paralegal services who want your $300 to do absolutely nothing that you can't do yourself, and which won't matter at the end anyway. That's what employs those guys - ignorance of the people, who are only too happy to hear that they aren't getting any points or their points got reduced.

[loki]

gta_driver multiquote is your friend

Will merge all these into single post when I get to a computer

[jeffjones]

They will only go based off what you were charged with. They cannot raise it. And in just about every case, if you plead with the prosecutor before the trial, you can get it down even further.


I don't believe this is true, The prosecuter has the ability to raise the ticket back to the original speed in court. Not saying it happens often, but it can happen.
I believe you need to have an R written somewhere on the ticket stating the officer reduced it.

[S.F.W.]

I don't believe this is true, The prosecuter has the ability to raise the ticket back to the original speed in court. Not saying it happens often, but it can happen.
I believe you need to have an R written somewhere on the ticket stating the officer reduced it.

They do have the ability to do so, but I have never heard of a case where they have actually raise the ticket back up. If you can find one please post it. More than anything, this is a tactic by police offers to try and get offenders to accept the ticket and not fight it in court.

[ericssonfan]

People I know that used XCopper before said it cost a lot of $$$. Like others stated, they will (sometimes) take a plea which means guilty but of a lesser degree but regardless, still guilty. Usually that pts taken away are reduced or even eliminated so I guess you can see that as a win from that standpoint.

When I need to pass somebody going 80km/h on a 2 lane backroad/hwy I sometimes DO find myself going 110-115km/h but just for that brief period that I need to burst ahead of them. Passing 6 cars at once does seem kind of a bad decision though. Although I'm guessing if the officer saw you burst ahead at your said speed to pass a car or 2 and returned to your lane, you'd have more lea-way with the cop?

Book a trial date--> receive your hearing in the mail-->attend the court date->have an opportunity to take a plea in a lineup before the trial(s) begin-->(a)Accept the plea or (b)prepare to defend your case -->wait for your name to be called

[zzz3]

From a professional standpoint, this is what I don't understand. Unless they get the ticket completely dropped... why fight it? If they reduce it and you pay a smaller fine, often the fine combined with the cost of the legal services is more than the ticket was initially and it still has the EXACT SAME IMPACT on your insurance.

So you pay more in total (reduced fine + legal costs) > original fine and you saved nothing on your insurance.

This is why I always council people to pay minor tickets right away and not fight them. Major tickets should always be contested and attempted to be reduced to minors.

-Geoff

Redline will not take your case unless they see fit. Their strategy essentially hinges on making lengthy disclosure requests (i.e, the entire laser/radar manual and the copyright arguments associated with doing so) as well as charter arguments (for example 11b) based on previous precedent and case law.

[samanthastyle]

Ok, so Guelph is officially the worst for speeding tickets apparently. I went there ONCE to drop a friend off at her parents house (doing a favour) ... NEVER AGAIN! Was doing 30 over but he gave me 29... I decided to just pay it and deal with the consequences... I mean, it was my fault. I was speeding LOL

[m_bisson]

That 1 km difference means you get less demerit points and also a lower fine. Once you hit 30k over, the price per kilometer goes up.