Mazda of Toronto - service questions

[J-Wo]

Hey everyone, I have my 2005 Mazda3 Sport GT for service today at Mazda of Toronto. My first time getting service there after hearing so many good things from here, plus they are very close to my work. Previously I've gone to Avante Richmond Hill (where I bought the car) but more recently Markham Mazda because that's where I live. However I've really never been happy with Markham Mazda, especially their service dept.

The car is about 2.5 yrs old with 53,500 kms on it. Today I have the car in for the big 48,000 km scheduled maintenance package, for which they charge $210. They just called and recommended the following:

Alignment off, check and fix - $120
Replace transmission oil - $140
Replace brake oil - $140
Flush fuel injector system - $160
Clean throttle body (emission system) - $80

With tax and including the original $210 service fee, they offered me a "special rate" of $940 for the whole shebang -- plus they'd throw in a coupon for a free oil change for my next visit. I politely declined all the extras as I'm pretty sure I can do those for a lot less at my local mechanic. But to be honest I'm a novice when it comes to cars and in the past have been easily hoodwinked into extra services that are not required (ahem, Markham Mazda!). So I'd love to know what the rest of you guys have to say about this.

[S.F.W.]

I had, the last two items recommended to me at both 48k and 72k. I passed on both.

[Iturralde]

J-Wo,

I am like you in that I am a nocive at this stuff also.

SFW, you said that you passed on these things. My question on this would be, how do we know when the above items need to be changed?

For example, why would we need to flush the fuel injector system on a 2.5 year old car? I thought you would do this for an older car. Same goes with replacing the braking fluid.

Thank goodness my father in law is a mechanic, sucks that he is in Miami!

Confused....

X

[J-Wo]

Well I think I finally discovered a nice, friendly mechanic in Markham who I went to do replace my brake pads after Mazda said they were shot at about 45,000 kms. I'd feel a lot better if someone said that all those things I mentioned in the 1st post can be done easily at a local mechanic, or are any best done at a Mazda dealership? Thanks guys

[Wild Weasel]

What does the manual say when it comes to those maintenance items?

Do you have any reason to suspect your alignment might be off?

A bottle of fuel system cleaner should take care of the last two items for less than $20.

Bear in mind that the stuff dealers recommend is not necessarily required. They're just things that wouldn't hurt to do now and then, and make them some money. Check the manual to know what's required and when.

[Fuman]

the alignment, Gilmen will do for 80 bucks.
Gilman Auto Service
1940 Ellesmere Road
Suite 6
Scarborough, Ontario, M1H 2V7
Telephone:416 289-1388
Contact: Ray

The rest. I did as well but even earlier. (except the brake fluid)

[Xerox]

A bottle of fuel system cleaner should take care of the last two items for less than $20.

I wonder how that really compares to an actual flush (Flush fuel injector system). The dealer has special machines that cleans them right (like a vacuum type device)?

[S.F.W.]

J-Wo,

I am like you in that I am a nocive at this stuff also.

SFW, you said that you passed on these things. My question on this would be, how do we know when the above items need to be changed?

For example, why would we need to flush the fuel injector system on a 2.5 year old car? I thought you would do this for an older car. Same goes with replacing the braking fluid.

Thank goodness my father in law is a mechanic, sucks that he is in Miami!

Confused....

X

I went to a third party mechanic, and has him check out the car. Was told flushing the injector system, and cleaning the throttle body were not necessary. They may help the car perform a little better, but I wasn't having any performance issues.

[FLIPDADY]

I wonder how that really compares to an actual flush (Flush fuel injector system). The dealer has special machines that cleans them right (like a vacuum type device)?

Well I had mine flushed because I have high KM's. There's an actual machine that is hooked up to the fuel rail during the service. I use to get crappy gas mileage but noticed an improvement after.

[Cardinal Fang]

$940.00!!!!

That's incredible. My wife's TSX never had that much in repairs when she actually needed repairs.

[Wild Weasel]

What's involved when they do this flush? Do they remove the injectors and test flow rates and spray patterns and what not?

[Jeff-TheBiz]

I think the flush is a good idea if you do not do much highway (always at lower speeds) IIRC.

I was told not to bother, because my car is 25km on the highway at breakneck speed everyday, twice a day.

[Jeff-TheBiz]

BTW, Wo, what is your mileage like... not specifically, cuz really I wouldn't know if you did tell me, but how many kms are you getting out of a full tank? Approx?

[J-Wo]

TheBiz: my mileage is pretty crappy, but probably because I'm a pretty aggressive driver. I drive a mixture of 50/50 highway/city, and I have to admit I am pretty much always speeding or trying to pass someone so I can get to my destination faster... but I am trying to avoid hard breaks and hard accels, also using cruise control more (partially because of the new 50+km/h over speed limit laws!).

That being said my mileage is almost always over 10L/100km. For example just yesterday my odometer read ~400km since last fillup when the gas light when on, so I filled up and it was 43 L. That makes it ~ 10.75L/100km

[Fuman]

TheBiz: my mileage is pretty crappy, but probably because I'm a pretty aggressive driver. I drive a mixture of 50/50 highway/city, and I have to admit I am pretty much always speeding or trying to pass someone so I can get to my destination faster... but I am trying to avoid hard breaks and hard accels, also using cruise control more (partially because of the new 50+km/h over speed limit laws!).

That being said my mileage is almost always over 10L/100km. For example just yesterday my odometer read ~400km since last fillup when the gas light when on, so I filled up and it was 43 L. That makes it ~ 10.75L/100km

It sounds about right, if you are driving auto.
I get 9.8L/100KM on a more passive driving pattern

[J-Wo]

It sounds about right, if you are driving auto. I get 9.8L/100KM on a more passive driving pattern

Yes that's right, I have an auto

What does the manual say when it comes to those maintenance items? Do you have any reason to suspect your alignment might be off?

I picked up the scheduled service menu at MOT.. . it simply says all those items listed should be inspected every 4 months or 8000 kms, it really never says when they should be flushed/replaced! I'm guessing the implication is do it whenever your service guy says to...

I also do feel that my alignment is a bit off, so I asked them to look at that (even though it is one of the inspection points for the 48000km service package). Sometimes on city roads I feel the car pulls to the left, but I always wondered if it was simply the roads on the specific route I use to get to work that are curved or uneven. However it is very minor and I really dont' notice it all the time but I wanted them to look at it anyway... So the service guy called and said something about the steering wheel having some problem so the alignment is off. I don't remember his exact wording but I wrote it down at work. He didn't make it sound like it was life and death though so he had no problems with me declining the service for now.

the alignment, Gilmen will do for 80 bucks...[...]...The rest. I did as well but even earlier. (except the brake fluid)

Meaning you did them at a 3rd party mechanic or at the dealership?

[Fuman]

Yes that's right, I have an auto



I picked up the scheduled service menu at MOT.. . it simply says all those items listed should be inspected every 4 months or 8000 kms, it really never says when they should be flushed/replaced! I'm guessing the implication is do it whenever your service guy says to...

I also do feel that my alignment is a bit off, so I asked them to look at that (even though it is one of the inspection points for the 48000km service package). Sometimes on city roads I feel the car pulls to the left, but I always wondered if it was simply the roads on the specific route I use to get to work that are curved or uneven. However it is very minor and I really dont' notice it all the time but I wanted them to look at it anyway... So the service guy called and said something about the steering wheel having some problem so the alignment is off. I don't remember his exact wording but I wrote it down at work. He didn't make it sound like it was life and death though so he had no problems with me declining the service for now.


Meaning you did them at a 3rd party mechanic or at the dealership?

Alignment I did at Gilmen. Brake Fluid I did at Motor Workshop

Transmission/Throttle Body/Fuel Injector was all done at the dealership.

[Flagrum_3]

Well I'm going to stir the pot here because this whole issue has been discussed or should I say beaten to death before on this forum....

"None of the extra services suggested, with the exception of the alignment are necessary at the OP's specified mileage of 48k"

Its a good practice to have the alignment checked atleast every 2-3 years as our roads can be pretty harsh on our steering and suspension components but,
as for the tranny fluid; Its a sealed unit folks!!(auto); meaning unless the fluid shows signs of contamination or a burnt smell, it never needs replacing.
Same goes for the brake fluid!!...What a line of shit that is,...brake fluid will never need replacing, unless its has been contaminated and the only way to do so, is to leave your brake reservoir cap off or if the brake lines or hoses, have been replaced or you like submerging your vehicle in pools of water.
Finally as for the injector flush,...maybe after 120k+ kms and an obvious drop in performance is noticed, otherwise as WW meantioned a bottle of quality fuel injector cleaner a couple of times a year will do the job fine.

As far as I'm concerned its a total cash grab, and dealers should be ashamed of themselves for trying to soak unsuspecting customers!! $640 in unnessary work!!...Shame!



_3


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[Wild Weasel]

Not true about the brake fluid. It should be changed after 80 to 100k km's or so. Moreso if you're an aggressive driver and tend to heat up the fluid more than the average bear.

It takes a long time, but it does slowly absorb water from the air. It's not a completely sealed system.

[Flagrum_3]

Not true about the brake fluid. It should be changed after 80 to 100k km's or so. Moreso if you're an aggressive driver and tend to heat up the fluid more than the average bear.

It takes a long time, but it does slowly absorb water from the air. It's not a completely sealed system.

It takes a very long time for brake fluid to absorb enough water (moisture), for it to be contaminated enough to need replacing...like 10-15+ years under normal conditions, and sorry but the system is completely sealed and has to be or else your brakes system would not function properly...But I'll agree that if you do heat your system up to extreme temperatures and we would be talking race track type heat here, it may need changing eventually.But for probably 99% of those who drive it would never be neccessary.


_3


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[Wild Weasel]

The system is not completely sealed. The reservoir is vented to the atmosphere to allow the fluid to go down over time.

[Fuman]

brake fluid wise:
if you notice your brake pedal getting mushy after a few stops. Get a brake fluid flush because that usually means your brake fluid is boiling. It will boil at lower temperatures if your brake fluid is contaminated with water.
Also check your brake fluid level and top it off (assuming what WW saying is true).

As for your transmission fluid. Check it. It is suppose to be red. If yours is a relatively dark or smells burnt (as Flagrum said) you should change it

[Wild Weasel]

DO NOT TOP UP YOUR BRAKE FLUID!!!!

Unless there's a leak somewhere in the system, your car will not "consume" brake fluid.

The fluid level goes down as the pads wear. When you put new pads on, the fluid will come back up. If you'd topped it up, then it could overflow and brake fluid does very nasty things to paint!

If the fluid level is dangerously low (the reservoir is near empty) then have it checked out to find out where it's going.

[Fuman]

DO NOT TOP UP YOUR BRAKE FLUID!!!!

Unless there's a leak somewhere in the system, your car will not "consume" brake fluid.

The fluid level goes down as the pads wear. When you put new pads on, the fluid will come back up. If you'd topped it up, then it could overflow and brake fluid does very nasty things to paint!

If the fluid level is dangerously low (the reservoir is near empty) then have it checked out to find out where it's going.

how much does the brake fluid level change when the pads wear?

Sorry should of been more explicit. Fill it back up to the appropriate level (should be a max line) and get it checked out. I was thinking of a brake line fluid leak.

[Wild Weasel]

It goes down quite a bit, though not all the way down to the minimum line.

If you have or suspect a leak and put more in, ensure you let whoever is fixing it know that you've added some.

If you're not sure you have a leak, check your pads and replace if necessary.

As I said though... never ever add brake fluid as a maintenance procedure. It's not necessary and can end up harmful if it overflows.