law about lowering the car

[Skarbro]

My main point is; Since Insurance is mandatory by law, Insurance companies should be obligated by law to supply coverage, without making stupid rules that do not effect the safety of the vehicle and also by law not be able to drop you unless of course you've prooved to be a problem driver and furthermore it should be our government and Insurance bureau that enforces it.

That is why there is Facility Insurance - the Insurance of last resort. If you are uninsurable in all the regular markets, you can still get insurance through Facility, but you are going to get raped in premium.

The problem is the Insurance companies are allowed to make the rules with absolutely no regulation from our government and that is just wrong, if by law we are forced to have insurance.

All Ontario insurance companies ARE regulated by the Ontario Government. The governing body is called the Financial Services Commission of Ontario (FSCO). Each insurance company has to get their filed rules and rates approved by FSCO.

[Flagrum_3]

That is why there is Facility Insurance - the Insurance of last resort. If you are uninsurable in all the regular markets, you can still get insurance through Facility, but you are going to get raped in premium.


All Ontario insurance companies ARE regulated by the Ontario Government. The governing body is called the Financial Services Commission of Ontario (FSCO). Each insurance company has to get their filed rules and rates approved by FSCO.

Argh!!, FSCO they should change the acronym to FARSE, Fucking arseholes that they are.


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[Cardinal Fang]

I was under the impression that FSCO stood for FiSting COmpany.

meh

[Unoriginalusername]

do any normal companies without outragoues premiums allow a few mods or no?

[dsichewski]

I can understand like if you change your exhaust or add a CAI.....i'm just wondering if i was to change my wheels...keep them at 17" but get like sportmax or rays or something. would i have to tell them? I know everyone does it but just wondering if changing the wheels would be considered a "material" thing or since its still stock size wise is it ok?

Also what is we get Mazdaspeed mods installed by Mazda dealers....I know its still modding but with its being made by mazda and installed by mazda would that work for you since they know its installed by a reputalbe shop and carries a warranty of some kind?

[alhope34]

I can understand like if you change your exhaust or add a CAI.....i'm just wondering if i was to change my wheels...keep them at 17" but get like sportmax or rays or something. would i have to tell them? I know everyone does it but just wondering if changing the wheels would be considered a "material" thing or since its still stock size wise is it ok?

You'd still have to tell insurance. Legally, even if you install a new stereo you have to tell insurance. It's the exact same reason for rims. Your car is now a greater target for thieves. Plus, if you don't tell insurance about new rims and you come out from work to see your car up on blocks or whatever, insurance won't cover the loss of those shiny new $2000 rims. If you tell insurance and they are stolen, they are covered.

[Cardinal Fang]

Also what is we get Mazdaspeed mods installed by Mazda dealers....I know its still modding but with its being made by mazda and installed by mazda would that work for you since they know its installed by a reputalbe shop and carries a warranty of some kind?

I understand your concern and you do pose an interesting dilemma. It's not just Mazda but many other car manufacturers are offering performance components at the point of sale and during regular scheduled car service.

I've emailed my insurance agent with a whole list of questions relating to what we've been talking about here in order to get some guidance on this. I've just received this email response.


This happens to be a perfect time to ask as we are working through those details. There is much to be said about "modified" cars right now. If you don't mind, I will take some time to go through each of your questions and get back to you with concise answers.

Off hand, however, I would like to mention that Echelon Insurance is now providing coverage for "Modified or Customized Autos" commonly referred to as Street Rods or Customs. The vehicles must be over 15 years old. I will send you a brochure today with respect to that coverage.

As for the rest, I will contact you at the first of the week with a concise answer.

Thank you,
Sandy

[Skarbro]

Off hand, however, I would like to mention that Echelon Insurance is now providing coverage for "Modified or Customized Autos" commonly referred to as Street Rods or Customs. The vehicles must be over 15 years old. I will send you a brochure today with respect to that coverage.

Yeah you can get insurance with a more regular market for modified cars if they are freaking old, but a newer modded car is left with Facility insurance.

[Flagrum_3]

Yeah you can get insurance with a more regular market for modified cars if they are freaking old, but a newer modded car is left with Facility insurance.

Yeah how stupid is that? My supervisor at work has a 1970 Challenger pushing about 700+ hp and he pays less on that than I pay on my 150hp 3 ...go figure and I would say his car is worth alot more than mine also.


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[EvilDeadFan]

After the cop finishes talking to you and takes off, you should pull HIM/HER over for the illegal use of an open screen while driving! They all have notebook computers open while driving, those bastards!

[Cardinal Fang]

Yeah how stupid is that? My supervisor at work has a 1970 Challenger pushing about 700+ hp and he pays less on that than I pay on my 150hp 3 ...go figure and I would say his car is worth alot more than mine also.


_3


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You have to factor in the person driving the 700 hp car with their past driving experience in order to obtain an accurate insurance rate. Assuming identical driving records:

24 yr old male with 700 hp car vs 64 yr old male with 700 hp car.

I don't think it comes to anyones surprise who pays more. Remember that insurance is about risk assessment. Given the statistics who is more than likely to be involved in an accident?

After the cop finishes talking to you and takes off, you should pull HIM/HER over for the illegal use of an open screen while driving! They all have notebook computers open while driving, those bastards!

Any chance they're surfing for porn while driving?

[Flagrum_3]

[QUOTE=Cardinal Fang;259957]You have to factor in the person driving the 700 hp car with their past driving experience in order to obtain an accurate insurance rate. Assuming identical driving records:

24 yr old male with 700 hp car vs 64 yr old male with 700 hp car.

I don't think it comes to anyones surprise who pays more. Remember that insurance is about risk assessment. Given the statistics who is more than likely to be involved in an accident?
[/QOUTE]

Well that doesn't work here as my supervisor is younger than me doesn't have as clean a record as I, has not been driving as long as I, only difference would be location and number of vehicles insured.But thats not the point.The point is lets say I install a CAI, it will not add much hp/tq at all, it'll possibly allow my vehicle to run better and add some mpg but they will call it a performance enhancement, throw me in a certain risk group and charge me more or cancel my policy, yet I could possibly go buy a 20 year old 400hp vehicle and pay less?...Call me simple but something does not add up there...Insurance Companies are thiefs, they come up with stuff all the time to increase their profits yet our so called FARSE group does in no sense regulate anything.What insurance companies want they get and that is my point and that is WRONG.

It used to be simple, if you added anything to your vehicle and it was stolen or destroyed in an accident, you would show receipts of such things and the insurance would pay you the money.It didn't matter what you added.But now for some reason you must tell them when you've installed something, and then your at their mercy if they will keep you insured I'm sorry....wrong, wrong,wrong.


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[Wild Weasel]

Just waiting for my Sunfire to be old enough to insure.

[Skarbro]

It's all actuarial data. The 20 year old car with 400 hp is most likely babied and driving hardly at all. Today's ricer cars are daily drivers clocking tens of thousands more clicks a year. Which is more likely to get into an accident?

And you ALWAYS still have Facility to fall on if you get cancelled. Would you rather your insurance company just charge you Facility rates?

[Skarbro]

Just waiting for my Sunfire to be old enough to insure.

In 2021? Heh....

[Wild Weasel]

Nah... should be able to get coverage in 2016.

[dsichewski]

I understand your concern and you do pose an interesting dilemma. It's not just Mazda but many other car manufacturers are offering performance components at the point of sale and during regular scheduled car service.

I've emailed my insurance agent with a whole list of questions relating to what we've been talking about here in order to get some guidance on this. I've just received this email response.


This happens to be a perfect time to ask as we are working through those details. There is much to be said about "modified" cars right now. If you don't mind, I will take some time to go through each of your questions and get back to you with concise answers.

Off hand, however, I would like to mention that Echelon Insurance is now providing coverage for "Modified or Customized Autos" commonly referred to as Street Rods or Customs. The vehicles must be over 15 years old. I will send you a brochure today with respect to that coverage.

As for the rest, I will contact you at the first of the week with a concise answer.

Thank you,
Sandy

Once Again Thanks Cardinal! I appreciate you looking into this and I look forward to seeing what they come back with as an answer.

David

[SP33D 3]

yea my insurance company has the same offer with street rods or customs having to be 15 years or older... and it says they can't be a daily driver and another vehicle must be owned

[WLS ZMZM]

As a few have mentioned not notifying your insurance company, of your mods can result in cancellations, most situations I've seen they'll fix the car... but back to stock... (they don't replace your mods). You should be reporting everything... with both my civic and my 3... my insurance is fully aware of the stereo systems in the cars.. and in fact I had to go get them both appraised.

As for the older car insurance, someone hit it right on the nose, the car may be more dangerous.. but the chances of it being on the road all the time are slim to none, I had the classic insurance on my old buick before I sold it.. it was like $125 for the year, but you couldn't take it when you wanted and there were alot of stipulations, but it was okay...


Gotta love the YRPD... no fresh donuts I guess when they saw you guys. I am sorry but these guys are TOp cocks in my opinion the biggest of all the 5-0, at least he didn't try to pull the whole two finger issue , I remember asking an OPP officer about this and he started laughing and he brought something up that never even crossed my mind.. my two fingers... your two fingers.. his two fingers they all different. The only rule I've ever heard of which I think is in the E.R.A.S.E manual is that the vehicle can not rub when the wheels are cranked. Many officers just play mechanic....

[04GTFX]

as everyone said, as long as your not rubbing/scraping your in the clear


but I did read somewhere that headlight/taillight height does have regulations that is were they may nab you

[whiteomega]

<snip>

This happens to be a perfect time to ask as we are working through those details. There is much to be said about "modified" cars right now. If you don't mind, I will take some time to go through each of your questions and get back to you with concise answers.

Off hand, however, I would like to mention that Echelon Insurance is now providing coverage for "Modified or Customized Autos" commonly referred to as Street Rods or Customs. The vehicles must be over 15 years old. I will send you a brochure today with respect to that coverage.

As for the rest, I will contact you at the first of the week with a concise answer.

i think another valid question, and something that should be looked into, is why we can buy a mazdaspeed3 for more money with more power and be covered by insurance, but mods like the mazdaspeed accessories can possibly kick you off insurance? the mazdaspeed3 is obviously faster, costs more money, etc. how is it different than modding a regular 3 to that point, especially if the mods are installed by the dealership?

is it just because the speed3 is "factory-equipped"?

Let us know when you hear back...

[Cardinal Fang]

That was exactly one of the questions I asked.

[WLS ZMZM]

that would be correct sir... the speed3 comes equipped like that, you will pay a little more on insurance because the car is factory modded. Since it is O.E.M equipped its not techincally defined as "modified" if you take a base 3 and add all the parts from mazdaspeed they may be OEM as they are made by mazda but are not on the vehicle when it leaves the factory. Kind of a stupid stipulation. but thats how it goes...

[whiteomega]

that would be correct sir... the speed3 comes equipped like that, you will pay a little more on insurance because the car is factory modded. Since it is O.E.M equipped its not techincally defined as "modified" if you take a base 3 and add all the parts from mazdaspeed they may be OEM as they are made by mazda but are not on the vehicle when it leaves the factory. Kind of a stupid stipulation. but thats how it goes...

this is precisely my point; speed3 owners pay more for insurance because it's a "higher-risk" car..but it's not any higher risk than a normal mazda3 modified with mazdaspeed accessories, so why the refusal to insure? it drives me kind of nuts sometimes.

i'm sure there is a logical reason beyond "so your premiums are higher and we see more phat loot"...but i can't fathom what that is. would be nice to know.

[alhope34]

this is precisely my point; speed3 owners pay more for insurance because it's a "higher-risk" car..but it's not any higher risk than a normal mazda3 modified with mazdaspeed accessories, so why the refusal to insure? it drives me kind of nuts sometimes.

The MS3 should still be a higher risk than a regular 3 even with all the MS parts, seeing as how Mazda does not offer a turbo kit for the regular 3, and the turbo is what should be adding most of the power to the MS3.