Rust Proofing?

[x_o_k_x]

Do not drill holes, Either buy expensive module (if you plan to keep your car for long) or do rustproof ONLY at the bottom avoiding engine bay. And then get Rustproofing spray can and do the little stuff yourself, like the engine bay and between doors.

[Skarbro]

Do not drill holes, Either buy expensive module (if you plan to keep your car for long) or do rustproof ONLY at the bottom avoiding engine bay. And then get Rustproofing spray can and do the little stuff yourself, like the engine bay and between doors.

You've said a lot without actually explaining yourself. Why exactly are you saying not to drill holes? Why are you suggesting to get a module that is virtually unproven and potentially useless? Why rustproof only the bottom when clearly the rest of the car is made of rust-susceptible steel too?

[Soyabean]

the module is kinda weird. i dont get how it works but the guy told me it emits some kind of field that prevents rust from forming around a certain diameter.

I dont think it works but i dont know anything lol

[Flagrum_3]

Do not drill holes, Either buy expensive module (if you plan to keep your car for long) or do rustproof ONLY at the bottom avoiding engine bay. And then get Rustproofing spray can and do the little stuff yourself, like the engine bay and between doors.

I'm sorry, but that has got to be the "Most Retarded Statement I've ever read on this here board"


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[ghostdog]

the 'magic' box that prevents rust has been discussed before on this board and many other countless boards and websites... waste of money / it doesn't work... my brother bought one when he bought his TSX three years ago... there are some minor bolts on his car that are rusting... best bet is to wash your car frequently in the winter and get the annual krown treatment or equivalent...

[x_o_k_x]

I'm sorry, but that has got to be the "Most Retarded Statement I've ever read on this here board"


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You're retarded..

The car mostly rusts at the bottom due to rock damage, water damage etc. so it has to be done. This ALSO includes around the wheels.. The rest just get something like wd40 that prevents corrosion and rust and spray between the doors and little bolts that are easy accesible by rust. Now like somebody also said, carwash couple of times in the winter to get the salt off the car, but not to much since water particles may not dry out in little places, which what will cause to rust.
The module works and has longer warranty then spray. It causes some kind of chemical reaction that prevents from rusting by an ac current. Now it may not work on parts that dont carry these currents..
Car is a car, its made out of metal, it will still rust nomatter what there is no 100% rust protection, especcially where you live with roads full of salt and water.

[Flagrum_3]

You're retarded..

The car mostly rusts at the bottom due to rock damage, water damage etc. so it has to be done. This ALSO includes around the wheels.. The rest just get something like wd40 that prevents corrosion and rust and spray between the doors and little bolts that are easy accesible by rust. Now like somebody also said, carwash couple of times in the winter to get the salt off the car, but not to much since water particles may not dry out in little places, which what will cause to rust.
The module works and has longer warranty then spray. It causes some kind of chemical reaction that prevents from rusting by an ac current. Now it may not work on parts that dont carry these currents..
Car is a car, its made out of metal, it will still rust nomatter what there is no 100% rust protection, especcially where you live with roads full of salt and water.

Hey! No need to start calling names here.I didn't say you were retarded, but just that your comments were....and I still hold to that, especially with the recent one...

I can tell that you definitely have no clue what you are talking about and are just spewing out of the mouth.So do yourself a favour and do some real research on these matters, yes that may mean some reading, but I'm sure your up to the task.


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[Skarbro]

The car mostly rusts at the bottom due to rock damage, water damage etc. so it has to be done. This ALSO includes around the wheels..

I've seen plenty of cars with rust in all kinds of places above the areas you mentioned. What about the edges of the trunk lid and hood? Around the door handles? Fenders where the bumper meets? Gas door opening? I could go on.

The rest just get something like wd40 that prevents corrosion and rust and spray between the doors and little bolts that are easy accesible by rust.

Use WD40 for rust protection on a car??? That's obsurd man. Real rustproofing oil is nothing like WD40.

Now like somebody also said, carwash couple of times in the winter to get the salt off the car, but not to much since water particles may not dry out in little places, which what will cause to rust.

Um.... "water particles" drying "out in little places" does not cause rust. What causes rust is oxidation. Salt+water is an oxidation accellerant. Proper rustproofing oil deflects water, so it can't react with the salt directly on the surface of the steel. Oil also puts up a barrier against oxygen. What exactly is too much washing anyway?

The module works

Please show us proof. I'de love to see it.

It causes some kind of chemical reaction that prevents from rusting by an ac current. Now it may not work on parts that dont carry these currents..

I don't even know where to begin with this one. You sound like you saw this thing in a Canadian Tire flyer and think you know everything about the issue.

Car is a car, its made out of metal, it will still rust nomatter what there is no 100% rust protection, especcially where you live with roads full of salt and water.

Of course there is no 100% rust protection. But we're more concerned with what works BEST.

Sorry to take your post apart, but you really should back up your comments with some supporting facts or links.

[ghostdog]

I wouldn't recommend wd40... it eats rubber amongst other things so spraying that around your car may have dire consequences... however there are other sprays at Canadian Tire, that advertises that it displaces moisture, provides a protective coating and is safe on wiring, vinyl, rubber, etc., etc. that can be used in its stead...

[Noisy Crow]

For those who are interested in the reason rust occurs:
http://www.ais-metallurgical-testing...rbon_steel.htm
Enjoy!

[ghostdog]

http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/jk/070221.htm
February 21, 2007

Rust and rust prevention

By Jim Kerr

Rust. It's a small word that can cause so much grief. Rusted bolts on a vehicle can make them difficult to repair, which adds to the cost of any repair work. Rusted sheet metal looks unsightly and devalues the vehicle. Let the rust get out of hand, and body panels can become rusted completely through, possibly causing structural failures or allowing exhaust fumes into the passenger compartment. This is extremely hazardous and in most areas of the country, can cause the vehicle to be certified unsafe to be driven. The hard-earned money you spent on that automobile just became almost worthless. So how do we prevent our vehicles from rusting?


Automobile manufacturers have been helping. Almost all metal body panels with the exception of roof panels on newer vehicles are galvanized. This zinc coating helps protect the metal from rusting, although it won't totally prevent it. Exterior trim and badges are often glued to the body rather than bolted in place so there are no holes in the body with chipped paint edges to allow rust to start. More durable seam sealers are used during assembly, and most vehicle manufacturers use electrostatic charges to attract primer paints into difficult to access body areas so that the complete body receives a protective coating during the assembly process. Even with all this attention to preventing rust, mother nature still takes her toll and you see rusty vehicles on the road.

Rust is a chemical reaction between iron molecules in the steel panels and oxygen. Add some moisture and/or heat and the chemical reaction occurs much faster. During the rusting process, a very small electrical current is generated, similar to the chemical reaction that takes place inside a battery, but with a much smaller charge. Hook up a sensitive voltmeter to a rusting panel in contact with salt water (salt accelerates the rusting process) and you can actually see the electrical potential generated.

Coating the body so that oxygen and moisture can't get at the metal is one method of reducing rusting - that's what paint, undercoatings and waxy rust prevention coatings do, but coatings aren't perfect. Scratches or stone chips in any coating will expose the metal. Rust occurs at the molecular level, so even the smallest mark can let rust start and it will continue to grow under the coating. I have seen large chunks of paint fall off badly rusted cars, where the paint looked pretty good but the metal was eaten almost entirely away.

Another way of reducing rust is to fight it electrically. Remember how rust creates electrical power? What if we could reverse the power? That's the concept behind electronic rust prevention systems. This system uses capacitance by attaching plates to the body to create a negative charge on the vehicle's body. The negative charge counteracts the electrical charge of the rusting action, slowing rust formation.

Other systems use cathodic protection, which is the real name of the technique these companies are trying to sell. This method of using a sacrificial cathode has been used with success to protect against corrosion on many structures and systems including sea-going ships, buried pipelines, and even reinforced concrete. The system produces a reverse charge in the component or structure to slow or prevent the rust action from taking place on the body and use up the cathode material instead. There's a catch however.

To create an electrical current, there must be a complete electrical circuit. In boats, the water forms one part of the circuit. In buildings, the ground forms one part of the circuit. Cars however, are not immersed in water or buried in the ground. If there was a good return path through water or dirt, this concept might work, but it doesn't have one. Another problem is that to create a charge over the complete vehicle body, the electronic rust prevention systems would have to use enough electricity from the vehicle's battery that it would keep draining the battery so your vehicle wouldn't start.

Would I recommend electronic rust prevention? No. I would save my money and apply it to keeping the vehicle clean. Rust occurs mostly where dirt and debris collect in recesses in the vehicle body. This area dries out slowly, so rust has a prime environment to occur. Wash under the vehicle thoroughly, inside front fenders and along trim to flush dirt out of corners. A clean vehicle dries quicker and dry vehicles rust very slowly.

Jim Kerr is a master automotive mechanic and teaches automotive technology. He has been writing automotive articles for fifteen years for newspapers and magazines in Canada and the United States, and is a member of the Automotive Journalist's Association of Canada (AJAC).

[Jetmech]

Absolutely no drilling is done at the dealership. Clips are removed to avoid drilling and the rustproofing is applied into the holes. If there is a body or corrosion claim and you did in fact have the body panels drilled you can say goodbye to your warranty.

When I called Mazda Canada regarding Krown Rust control and my wifes 02 Tribute they said that it wasn't a problem. Had it sprayed every year and the only issue I had with Krown was that it caused the rubber hood seal to stretch out of shape.

Other than that it was great.

[Soyabean]

Mazdas have holes in the doors where people can spray into without drilling into isn't there? So there is a way for people to get the stuff into the panels without actually havign to drill holes.

[x_o_k_x]

www.wikipedia.com - WD-40 is the trademark of a widely used penetrating oil (cleaner, lubricant and anti-corrosive solution) spray. It was developed in 1953 by Norm Larsen (then working for the Rocket Chemical Company) to eliminate water and prevent corrosion.[1] The product is currently sold for many household uses.

WD-40 stands for Water Displacement, 40th formula. Larsen was attempting to concoct a formula to prevent corrosion by displacing water, and arrived at the formula on his 40th attempt.[1] Misconceptions about the name include that the "WD" stands for "war department".[2]

WD-40 was first used by Convair to protect the outer skin of the Atlas missile from rust and corrosion.[1] The product first became commercially available on store shelves in San Diego in 1958.[1] - www.wikipedia.com,
- http://metalwebnews.com/howto/rust/rust.html also talks about wd40

- What surfaces or materials are OK to use WD-40 on? www.wd40.com
WD-40 can be used on just about everything. It is safe for metal, rubber, wood and plastic. WD-40 can be applied to painted metal surfaces without harming the paint. Polycarbonate and clear polystyrene plastic are among the few surfaces on which to avoid using a petroleum-based product like WD-40.

http://www.ruststoponline.com/rust-questions.html - perfectly explains everything you need to know about RUST MODULES. Now I been to the dealer and reading different sites, I still think it works and worth it, just a little expensive to have. WD40 works, but not the best oil spray out there, but something that slows down the process for sure.

Need more???

PS. BTW Flagrum_3, YOU have no clue, what you doing on this post or in fact this website, but judging others. I may say something incorrect, but thats what forums are.. to find answers!

[Noisy Crow]

Sigh. Nothing like using biased advertising as scientific proof.

A bit of reading for you:

Baboian, R., CATHODIC PROTECTION OF AUTOMOBILES, DOES IT WORK, NACE
Paper, Corrosion/87, 1987 and Materials Performance, Vol. 26,
no. 7, 1987.

Baboian, R., STATE OF THE ART IN AUTOMOBILE CATHODIC PROTECTION, PROCEEDINGS OF THE 5TH AUTOMOTIVE CORROSION AND PREVENTION CONFERENCE, SAE p-250, Society of Automotive Engineers, 1991 and SAE Transactions, Sept, 1992.

Oh.... and since you don't mind biases:
http://ziebart.mb.ca/home/content/view/55/2/

[Flagrum_3]

PS. BTW Flagrum_3, YOU have no clue, what you doing on this post or in fact this website, but judging others. I may say something incorrect, but thats what forums are.. to find answers!

I think I've done alot more good in this post and on this website than you have or probably ever will to start with, and yes part of this forum is to find answers, but the right answers!...There is enough mis-information and uneducated statements made on the Internet already, we don't need anymore posted here on our website.

Also I beg to differ with you, in that I don't think I passed judgement on you, (or anyone else for that matter on this board) how can I? I don't even know you! I just pointed out the fact that you were completely wrong (or misinformed) in your writings to the realities of automotive rust control which I'm sorry, but that is very evident....and, there is a difference between pointing out that someone is wrong and passing judgment on them.


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[Soyabean]

NOW NOW. To end this, I found my solution to rust proofing lol. IF ANYONE NEEDS TO RUSTPROOFING, PM ME FOR ADDRESS.

Good morning everyone

[ghostdog]

http://www.dansdata.com/danletters153.htm

Just to show an article/opinion to debunk ruststop...

Honestly of all the electronic gadgets that advertise rust control, I would go with Counteract. Canadian Tire carries it so that in itself proves that it works!

BTW, with regards to WD40, I remember from my olden days of paintballing, I made the mistake of using WD40 on my paintball gun... the orings were all damaged the next time I went out to play... now I have searched the web and there are a lot of opinions out there on whether WD40 is safe on rubber or not but since I've seen it first hand I, myself, would be hesitant on using WD40 all over the car as a rustproof agent...

Rust bug killer
I want your opinion on electronic rust prevention - specifically, the RustStop RS2000.

According to this page, it overcomes the weaknesses of electronic rustproofing by using more than one method.

I'm sceptical, but I don't want to get all messy with underseal on my rust-prone car. If this is a simple way out, I'm all for it.

Shuhel

Answer:
I'm sure the RustStop works perfectly, provided you remember to dig a big hole and bury your car in it after installing the device.

You could also drive the car into a lake. Or the ocean. That might screw up the electrics, though. The RS2000 will probably only keep working (battery charge permitting) if the car's buried.

The reason why this thing won't work on a car that's above ground is that there's no circuit between the sacrificial/impressed current anode and almost all of the rustable parts of the car. The conductive tape that you stick the anode(s) in place with means they'll protect the metal right under them just fine, but, y'know, paint'll do that too.

Passive galvanic cathodic protection (your standard "sacrificial anode" system, like when they bolt chunks of magnesium to ships below the waterline) and active impressed current cathodic protection (as used for underground pipelines and other Big Things where there's a long and lousy current path between the anodes and the metal they're protecting) both rely on the fact that the things they're protecting are lumps of metal surrounded by an electrolyte - water or earth.

Iron and steel rust essentially by forming tiny electrochemical cells anywhere that water and oxygen can get to the metal. Zero humidity air: No rust. Iron in a big box full of humid nitrogen: No rust. Iron submerged in salty water that's got no dissolved oxygen in it (which can almost be the case, deep in the ocean): No rust.

The particular curse of iron is that its rust is flaky, so more metal is continuously exposed to the air. Aluminium is much more reactive than iron and corrodes much faster, but its oxide forms a hard thin layer over the rest of the metal and protects it - if something doesn't cut the oxide layer, almost all of the metal survives indefinitely.

To protect flaky-rusting metal like iron, you attach a more reactive metal to it, applying current if necessary to boost the electrochemical path from the iron through the surrounding electrolyte to the sacrificial anode, which corrodes away instead of the iron.

You can demonstrate this effect yourself at home, quite easily; in a bucket of salty water, immerse one "tin" can (which'll actually be made out of steel these days; "tinfoil" was originally tin as well, before aluminium became cheap) and one otherwise identical can with a chunk of magnesium attached to it. Lightweight metal pencil sharpeners are cheap, and for some reason are made from a magnesium alloy, as everybody who had a cool science teacher in high school should already know.

Any way of attaching the magnesium that gives it metal-to-metal contact to the can will do - not glue, but just tying it on with some steel wire would do.

Can A will rust. Can B should remain pristine, while the sharpener slowly disappears. If you leave it long enough, the magnesium will vanish entirely, and then Can B will rust.

Try the same stunt with the two cans just sitting outdoors exposed to the elements, though, and the piece of Can B right under the sharpener will stay unrusted, while the rest of it rusts as normal, because there's no surrounding electrolyte. Rain will form a current path from the magnesium to the steel for a short distance around the sharpener, but most of the can will be unprotected most of the time, and applying a voltage to it won't help.

Modern steel-bodied cars have high quality galvanised panels as a matter of course anyway, which has largely eliminated the rapid-and-serious rust problems that people used to know and hate. They'll still rust eventually, of course, but if you don't scratch the finish and/or expose it to lots of particularly inclement weather, I wouldn't be surprised if a 2005 Toyota Corolla remained cancer-free 20 years from now. Maybe even longer.

A 1985 Alfa Romeo will, of course, probably fit in a matchbox today.

The only really foolproof rust prevention system, of course, is to use one or another "stainless" metal. We may see more stainless steel used in cars in the future, but seeing as it's historically been more expensive than aluminium - which, in turn, is far more expensive than carbon steel - I wouldn't hold my breath for it to show up in many affordable vehicles, if I were you.

There've been a few cathodic protection gizmos for cars in the past, none of which have worked, but the RustStop people insist their product isn't like all those other Scams Engineered By The Barely Literate.

RustStop is stated on various pages to be "the only system to successfully combine both Impressed Current and Sacrificial Anode technologies"... except that impressed current is just a way of making sacrificial anodes work better, so, uh, every impressed current system, uh, combines the "technologies".

They also say that the RS2000 has been "independently tested by an unrelated company" and shown to work, but they won't say who that "unrelated company" was, or where the results can be found. They mention the "tests" over and over, but keep unaccountably forgetting to fill in those blanks.

Instead, they offer testimonials.

No, wait - those are some other equally reliable testimonials. The RustStop ones are here.

And, in a side point, the ruststoponline.com domain is registered by my fellow Australian, Paul Barrs. As get-rich-quick artists go, he does not appear to be a particularly notorious one. But he's still a get-rich-quick artist. Make of this what you will.

While you're making of it what you will, you might also like to make what you will of the RustStop site's numerous irrelevant-link pages, presumably intended to make it look all hip to search engines.

A concept related to impressed current cathodic protection, by the way, is electrolytic rust removal. It really works, and amazingly well; you can use it to do tricks like cleaning up ancient tools so well that you can read the maker's name stamped on them.

To do it, you need an alkaline bath. Some sodium bicarbonate or carbonate in water will do; professional shops use sodium hydroxide, but bicarb or washing soda won't turn your hands to soap nearly as quickly. I've found a large cat litter tray makes a great cheap bath for various hand-tool-sized objects.

You also need a DC power supply. A car battery charger or surplus PC PSU should be just dandy; some sources recommend quite weedy power supplies, because they are weak and have no honour. If you're de-rusting something really big and want the job done inside a week, you'll need a lot of current capacity and enough voltage to push that current through the solution, so something scary like a DC arc welder could be called for.

The last piece of the recipe is a piece of iron you really don't care about. For small jobs, another "tin" can will do. Any plain iron or steel is suitable, but, as a reader reminded me, you should not use stainless steel for this sacrificial electrode unless you feel you need more chromates in your diet.

Connect the object to be cleaned to the negative terminal of your power supply, the sacrificial iron to the positive terminal (don't dip a positive-terminal alligator clip into the bath unless you want it to get eaten), submerge both pieces of metal in the bath without letting them touch, and turn on the juice.

The result will be bubbles, the rapid destruction of the sacrificial iron with lots of 'orrible red gunk accumulating in the bath, and the mystic disappearance of the rust on the object to be cleaned. Just running some water over the cleaned object should remove the loose gunk sitting on it afterwards.

This process verges on the magical the first time you see it, but all it does is remove iron oxide while preserving iron. Actually, technically, it eats a tiny amount of good metal where rust used to be, converting it into a super-thin layer of black oxide. Shiny steel won't be changed.

This process won't, however, regenerate the maker's name on some amorphous blob of oxide that someone dropped in your garden in 1952. The makers of some RustStop-ish gadgets apparently make regenerative claims (or their testimonials do, anyway...). The continuing health of the Bondo Corporation would appear to contradict them.

But since, to borrow a quack medicine favourite, healthy tissue is not harmed, this is by definition the world's least destructive de-rusting technique.

Electrolytic de-rusting does leave a very, very rustable fresh surface, though; anywhere that used to be rusty will now be black and ready to rust again, so as soon as you pull the item out of the bicarb bath, you should give it a coat of oil.

For in-situ de-rusting of bits of cars, houses, battleships and so on, the best quick solution is phosphoric acid products - phosphoric acid is the active ingredient in various "rust converter" paints. The very thought of "naval jelly", however, induces involuntary twitches in many of the world's military personnel for very good reason. If you're going to have to use much of the stuff, serious thought should be given to just selling the car or ship to a suitably gullible person or nation.

[zoomzoom30]

Once I get my car rust proofed, do I need to get it done yearly, another interval, or never again?

[ghostdog]

Once I get my car rust proofed, do I need to get it done yearly, another interval, or never again?

if you are going the oil route then it must be done yearly...