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Thread: Details on Corrosion repairs (ZoomZoom Girl's car)

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    Default Details on Corrosion repairs (ZoomZoom Girl's car)

    Just came from an inspection of my car with my dealership's manager, Rico (Mid City Mazda in Sudbury ON). As expected, he believes that all my bubbling is due to stone chips. To prove this, he pressed down on some of the blisters and they were very hard. If they had had underlying rust, they would have been very soft and much larger. He did state that the body shop will sand those down (the ones on flat panels like my doors, roof, rear liftgate). If there is any rust beneath, they will know immediately that it is sheet metal corrosion and not rock chips and take it from there.

    This assertion of "stone chips" is supported by the fact that almost all the blisters are on my side sills and lower portion of my doors, where you would expect rocks to hit the car. So, it IS possible but we'll know for sure when they check the blisters. They will also open up the doors to verify that there is no rusting within which could be causing the surface bubbling.

    Plan is to sandblast and refinish the entire rear quarter panels, both rear bumper seams (removing part of the bumper), and the bottom trim of my rear passenger doors. In other words, all the obvious rust patches. Once those are done and refinished, they will put 3M protective tape over the areas to ensure further stone damage does not occur. Both side sills will be entirely coated with 3M since they have to remove those anyways, to get at the lower door trim. They'll even put the tape on the inside of the wheel wells (what a job!) He wasn't sure if Mazda Canada would ok that but did tell me that the dealership itself would cover the cost. So, no funds from my end!

    As for the rear doors, they will "blend in" the new paint from the quarter panels to ensure that the whole car's paint looks right. They'll get the blisters on the back doors via this process. All other blisters on the flat panels will be sanded down and refinished. As Rico (dealership manager) said, you don't want to start repainting entire panels unless absolutely necessary since that will negatively impact resale value. For now, since they believe it is all superficial damage, they'll take care of the blisters one by one.

    The blisters inside the bottom of the door jambs they will cover with 3M to prevent rusting. They are so tiny that just keeping them as is would be sufficient. Again, the less painting, the better for me and the value of my car! I did ask about "what if these areas really do rust or if the bubbling restarts?" Rico said that there is a 1 year warranty on repair work (typical for any rust repairs done at any body shop) so we just need to keep a close eye on the situation. Again, if they start to do the work and find out that there is rust beneath the blisters, that will be a whole different scenario.

    Lastly, I will be given a loaner car at no cost to me by the dealership. I'm booked for next Tuesday at the body shop so will drop the car off at the dealership and they'll handle things from there. They think it will take 2 days but if longer, I can keep the loaner as long as the job takes. Fabulous news since the job won't be rushed and I don't have to worry about the rental cost!

    At least I know that if this does turn out to be metal corrosion, we'll deal with it. For now the determination is surface damage which will be handled by refinishing the back of the car entirely and removing the blisters individually. I really didn't want the entire car repainted as that would drop the resale value dramatically! Hopefully he's right and this will be the perfect fix. Adding 3M to the wheel wells, area around these, entire side sills, and lower door jambs will address all the areas highly susceptible to stone chip damage....

    I'm not entirely convinced that this really IS rock chip damage since I'm not a specialist and can't tell myself if bubbles are internally based or externally caused. For now, I'm willing to try this "quick" fix and see how my car holds up until next year, especially considering that the work is being done entirely via goodwill, including providing me with a Mazda loaner car. Believe me, I'll be watching very closely for any more bubbling or recurrence of rust and will be into the dealership immediately.

    Last thing. My dealership manager again restated that these cases are being handled individually by each dealership. They need to do a visual inspection. That coupled with your service history will determine whether or not you get covered under warranty, goodwill, or not at all. Point is, each one of you must go in to your dealership. Speak to the Service Manager AND the owner/manager of the dealership, if needed. If that doesn't pan out, ask to meet with the District Service Manager whenever he/she is in town since they make the final decision on warranty issues. Last step would be to call Mazda Canada directly.

    So, for now, good resolution to my complaint since I'm not paying for any of the costs. Again, I'm not really sure if this fix will be what my car needs in the long run but I have a year under repair warranty. If OTHER areas bubble/rust, my dealership assured me that they will cover those repairs too due to my excellent service history with them (and they know that my car is very well maintained).
    Sept 24/08 - Traded in 2004 Mazda3 Sport GT auto (Winning Blue) for 2009 Honda Fit Sport auto (Orange Revolution) due to paint/rust issue and sub-par dealership experience

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    Sr Member Flagrum_3's Avatar
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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Get the re-assurance in writing for one!

    Looking at the inside of the doors will be pointless as the corrosion is beneath the paint not all the way thru.It is probably true that some of the bubbling would be caused by chips but from your pics it definitely was not, rust will not be soft as he stated but hard and if pressed hard enough would crack.
    Anyways, its good to hear they are doing something and I hope they do a good job for you.

    Keep us posted!


    _3





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    Last edited by Flagrum_3; 07-03-2008 at 03:48 PM.

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    For sure I'll be getting any assurances of "oh, we'll take care of you if this happens again" in writing. Knowing what other Mazda3 owners have gone through, there really are no guarentees! I really do wish that I could have found a body shop expert to check over my car and tell me with 100% assurance what my root problem is...baring that, I have to trust to this whole process. I'll have a better idea next week once they break open the blisters....

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    I read something interesting in a magazine that Mazda sent me last week... Apparently they started using a new painting process on cars manufactured after July 2005, which is supposed to be more resistant to rusting. Probably not a coincident that the majority of the rust issues are on 2004s.

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Quote Originally Posted by WeatherB View Post
    I read something interesting in a magazine that Mazda sent me last week... Apparently they started using a new painting process on cars manufactured after July 2005, which is supposed to be more resistant to rusting. Probably not a coincident that the majority of the rust issues are on 2004s.
    Cool, can you scan this page? It might be an interesting read.

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Quote Originally Posted by liquidzyklon View Post
    Cool, can you scan this page? It might be an interesting read.
    Don't have a scanner but here is the quote...

    "In another global first, Mazda and Nippon Paint Co. launched a new e-coating technology in July 2005. This special process lowers VOC emissions in the basecoat process by 50%, reduces the volume of basecoat materials by 10% and actually improves paint quality and rust protection!"

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    The newer painting system isn't that much better, but it sure beats rust

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Quote Originally Posted by WeatherB View Post
    I read something interesting in a magazine that Mazda sent me last week... Apparently they started using a new painting process on cars manufactured after July 2005, which is supposed to be more resistant to rusting. Probably not a coincident that the majority of the rust issues are on 2004s.

    Guess I am screwed mine was built before July 2005
    Have bubbling-blistering on the inner door edge and one wheel well...

    2005 GT GFX AUTO Titanium Grey

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Quote Originally Posted by WeatherB View Post
    Don't have a scanner but here is the quote...

    "In another global first, Mazda and Nippon Paint Co. launched a new e-coating technology in July 2005. This special process lowers VOC emissions in the basecoat process by 50%, reduces the volume of basecoat materials by 10% and actually improves paint quality and rust protection!"
    Thanks for the quote. With a with Google search you can find a little more detail on this proccess.

    Links [search for "nippon paint"]:
    http://www.diginfo.tv/archives/energyenvironment/
    http://www.tomgarner.co.uk/archive/2...1_archive.html

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    New update on my car repairs...not good!

    My car was due to be dropped off to the body shop yesterday to get the rust damage repaired. I had a few more questions about the job so thought I'd pop into the body shop Monday morning. I thought it odd that Mazda was handling all of this themselves and that I'd never been asked to go to the body shop personally.

    On June 24th my car was left at the dealership for them to check into a CEL issue. That same day, my dealership received my letter of complaint and pictures. Also that day, my dealership manager and a Mazda rep. brought my car to the body shop and discussed the job with the manager there. What they showed him was ONLY the rust on the rear wheel wells, rear quarter panels, and bottom trim of the rear doors. They did not show him any of the bubbling. Note that this was all done with my knowledge or consent. The estimate was sent to Mazda Canada for approval and totalled $800 (again, without my being included in the process).

    When I got to the body shop, I asked Keith (manager of body shop) which bubbling would be touched up. He was very shocked since he had never been shown any of this on my car! I'd also been told that 3M would be applied over the existing bubbling on the lower doors jambs, inside the car. Keith was also shocked by this since he stated "you can't just cover up the damage....it has to be fixed first!"

    So, Keith called Rico (my dealership manager) to discuss all the other work that needs to be done, to see if they'll still cover all the costs (now $2000). Keith did state that he didn't think that the blisters were all due to rock chips and is clear that all 4 doors, driver-side front quarter panel, roof, and liftgate need some type of patching. Even on my liftgate with all the scratches, he stated that the scratches were not the cause of the bubbling....some kind of issue with the paint no longer adhering to the car is at play.

    Right now I'm waiting to hear back from my dealership. Well, it was my right to go into that body shop since it IS my car and I wanted to be clear about the job. Fortunately I did go in since my expectations and what the body shop understood would be done were way off! I am now very concerned if this other work, to repair the bubbling panels, will be covered.

    I received a call from Rico on Monday, after he'd spoken to Keith. He asked why I had gone in for a new estimate to which I replied "no I didn't...I went in to verify what bubbling would be done". He then also said "this is repainting most of the car....do you really want that?" I replied that I was not convinced that all the damage was only due to rock chips, in which case yes, the damaged panels do need to be repainted. He then stated that he would send the new estimate ($2000) to Mazda Canada.

    I called Mazda Canada myself yesterday to be sure that the new estimate had been sent. I also wanted to make it clear to them that the first estimate was submitted without my knowledge and was based on misinformation. None of the bubbling was even included. They assured me of a reply by this Friday. I received a follow-up today from Talvia (very first Mazda rep. I spoke to) and she stated that the new estimate was being submitted and that she was ensuring that the District Service Manager gave me an answer ASAP. Considering that this person was present when that first estimate was generated, I'm not overly optomistic about this entire process.

    So, there you go. I'm by no means abandoning my quest for justice here but am getting seriously frustrated. The first call I received from my local dealer (2 days after receipt of my package, 2 days after he went to get an estimate on the partial repair) assured me of 100% coverage on ALL repairs. He even said "come in, we'll go over the car together and sticky all the bubbling then take pictures". He then stated that the repairs were being doing via goodwill since I'm such a loyal customer who obviously takes serious care of her car. The real test is to see if my loyalty is worth $800 or $2000 to Mazda.

    Well, we met but he only proceded to tell me all my damage was due to rock chips. No pictures taken. He did state that they would refinish the damaged panels at the back then have the bubbles individually sanded down and refinished. That's why I was so surprised that the body shop manager knew nothing about bubbling. Who exactly was supposed to patch up those blisters then? In any event, the body shop stated that the entire panels needed to be redone, not just a patch job. Note that this is body shop #4 that I visit and all said the same thing.....

    So, waiting game on my end as well! Alot of us are in the same boat so I wish you all the best in getting your repair costs covered....

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Man this never ends! What a mess!, I just wonder how Mazda expects customers to stay loyal to their brand with this kinda crap?!....Rooting for ya zoomzoom!

    _3

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Well, I just came from yet another body shop (like to do my research and all) and yes, they stated emphatically that I've been blatantly lied to. The bubbling is absolutely NOT due to rock chips. The guy (expert) looked at my car closely and stated that without an ounce of doubt, the issue is with the factory paint job. He can't be sure if it's metal corrosion or the paint that is not adhering to the car for another reason, but what he did state is that this IS a Mazda problem and not due to "wear and tear". Now that someone who actually is a body shop expert has told me this, without any shadow of doubt, I am more confident in fighting for my car to be covered. It's no longer an issue of "well, maybe it IS rock chips"...it is NOT. Even the body shop that my dealeship uses told me that it was a paint issue and not rock chips, at least on the liftgate. How much more proof do they need?

    So, the body shop guy plainly told me that Mazda Canada is trying to get out of paying for the costly repairs on my car. With sure knowledge of the cause (factory paint), this is FAR from over. I'm supposed to get an answer from Mazda by tomorrow. I anticipate that they'll want me to contribute to part of the $2000 repair bill. Well, my dealer manager gave me a verbal promise that ALL the damage, including bubbling, would be taken care of so I'm going to hold him to that....

    Seriously, how can Mazda expect any level of customer loyalty when this is what someone who has had all her servicing done at the dealership and who obviously takes very good care of her car has to go through?

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Interesting couple of days trying to get my repairs sorted out with my dealership. After going over my car with the dealer principal (Rico) and the manager of the body shop (Keith) on Monday, Rico submitted the new pictures and estimate to Mazda Canada. I got a call at 6 pm to update me.

    Mazda Canada has 'officially' issued AWA (after warranty assistance - aka secret warranty) to cover: rear wheel wells, rear quarter panels, rear bumper seams, and lower trim of rear passenger doors. In other words, this has been blanket approved due to the volume of complaints coming in over the past year or so. However, this doesn't mean you can just go in and get this work done (though you should!) It means that if you're persistent and diplomatic, then you'll get covered. Obviously Mazda is looking to spend as little $ as possible on this so only the most determined customers will get compensated. Stick to it, knowing that there ARE funds allocated by Mazda to cover these repairs now. You know there's a AWA if the dealer has to fill out a long form which you must sign....

    As for the bubbling, work still needs to be done! Their line is 'oh, this is rock chips'....odd since the back rusting is obviously rock chip damage and they're covering that now. Also, several of us have bubbles with no impact points.

    After weeks of questioning, I finally got some useful info. on these bubbles. Smooth ones are more indicative of rock chips....dimpled one, likely an underlying factory defect. Even though my dealer acknowledges at least two spots with bubbles due to a factory defect, Mazda Canada is still totally unwilling to cover the cost of these repairs on my car.

    So, my dealer will pay to get the lower part of my doors (below door mouldings, below part that curves down) refinished since the bulk of the bubbles are there. 3M will be applied over these areas afterwards, to protect against future "rock chips". My front passenger-side lower door jambs with the "factory defect" bubbles will be redone. Again, 3M applied over that area and all lower door jambs. The back end with the actual rust patches is approved via AWA. 3M will be applied inside the wheel wells, and around the perimeter. Also, since the rocker panels have to be removed to get at the lower door trim, they will be entirely covered with 3M. There is "suspect" bubbling, ironically right under my Mazda3 badge on the liftgate which will also be investigated.

    I asked repeatedly, "now if this turns out to be rust or if the bubbling returns, I'll be covered again, right?" My dealer assured me of this though I'm not 100% convinced of that. So, all in all, this is a patch job but at least it addresses all the current rusting/bubbling on my car. Also, the 3M and loaner car are all being done completely free of charge to me.

    Best I can do, aside from continuing to pursue our group case with the backing of the APA, is to accept this "deal" and keep a very close eye on my paint. I've been assured that if rust shows up (they will open all the blisters and check underneath), I'll be contacted immediately. Again, I have to trust that I WILL be contacted but what else can I do now? Knowing that alot of you are not getting any assistance makes me reluctant to refuse a deal. However, knowing that some are getting complete assistance (um, even entire doors replaced) makes me furious!

    Also note, I inquired about the actual process to refinish panels and was told that they only sandblast rust patches, not bubbling. Since this generates alot of heat, sandblasting flat panels (i.e. doors) would result in warping and pitting. If rust is found on these sections, generally they replace the entire panel (as several people in Quebec have had done). So, on my car, sandblasting will be done on the lower door trim, rear bumper seams, rear wheel wells, and section just around the wells with rust. The bottom part of my doors (part that turns down on the car) will be sanded down to half the thickness of the existing finish, then covered with new primer (2 coats)/paint/clearcoat. This explains why so many of our cars re-bubble/re-rust....they put the new finish on top of the (perhaps) defective primer and don't get down the metal to treat that first! Therefore, I'm not overly optomistic that this will be the end of my paint woes. I'll keep a very close eye on things and report back to Mazda if (when) issues pop up again....

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Well congratulations on the progress!

    You need to get in writing that in the future you will be covered if it comes back.

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Well that's the problem. Although the rusted back end repairs are now being covered by AWA, this is only available for the most persistent customers, likely also dependent upon the working relationship with the servicing dealership. The bubbling, right now, is all being done via goodwill alone. Therefore, Mazda Canada/dealerships basically hold all the cards.

    Any future promises of coverage will again be based on goodwill, unless I can manage via the group case and the APA's involvement to get bubbling repairs done via AWA too. Not so easy when Mazda is sticking to the "rock chip" argument for dear life! These repairs are quite costly (thousands) so you can bet that it will take a monumental effort to sway their decision. So, since this is all based on goodwill, there is no written guarentee of coverage for recurrence or new corrosion.

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    Jr Member Dan Da Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    My girlfriends has been waiting 2 months for mazda to get back to her after taking photos of her rust. They have repaired it once on each rear wheel well but its back and it didnt even go trought a winter with the new paint. ill make sure she gets on mazdas ass about this.

    glad to hear your getting lots of work done to yours.

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Thanks and good luck to your girlfriend! It can be a seriously frustrating process, but one you have to stick to in order to get results. I didn't get an ideal resolution to my case since entire panels are not being refinished. However, the existing rust/bubbling will be repaired. I anticipate swift recurrence of the issues too, in which case you better believe that I'll absolutely insist on whole panel repairs! Not encouraging to hear that the problem with your girlfriend's paint was back so soon....

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    Jr Member Dan Da Man's Avatar
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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Yeah but im sure all they did with hers was sand it down and prime and paint, cheap bastards.

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    congrats on getting mazda to repair the problems for you
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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Hi ZoomZoomGirl,

    Just wondering, any update on your car situation? How did the repairs go?

    Hope you have you car back in top shape?

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Good timing with that question! I just got my car back today after 10 days in the shop. Thankfully they gave me a free loaner (2008 Mazda6). It poured today so I couldn't do a thorough check, but a quick look (and I'm a fussy girl) shows an excellent repair job! They even gave me "during" pictures to show exactly which areas were done. Pretty dramatic since the rear lights, my side mirrors, door handles, belt moulding were all removed as well as the rear bumper. Talk about "stripped down" look! I'm really glad I didn't pop into the shop to see my car like that.

    My entire liftgate had to be refinished after they found bubbling (with rust underneath) under the Mazda3 badge. Aside from that, they redid 3/4 of the driver-side (literally, up 3/4 of the car) and about 1/2 of the passenger-side. I really can't see a difference in paint color since they blended the colors. Also, 3M was applied: inside both rear wheel wells, around the perimeter of all wheel wells, and entire side sills up to 1/4 of all passenger doors. That job alone took 1.5 days.

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Congrats on getting your "new" car
    His: 2008.5 White Pearl Hatchback
    Hers: 2012 Black Mazda5 GT
    Sold: 2006 Grey Sport GT
    HUY-zel... It's pronounced "wee-zel"

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    Thanks. It really does look brand new. They even fully detailed the inside and it smells like new too! Well, if they were trying to impress me they certainly met that goal. Fortunately they told me to wait 1 month to wax as I would have went to town on the car this weekend. As is, I'm hoping for a day without rain to do a good washing/examination. I'm also glad that they gave me the "during" shots so I can see exactly where they did the work. Can't really ask for more than that. Oh, the free loaner and free application of TONS of 3M (kaching) were nice added touches too....

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    WOW, scan and post the pics, this might be something we all need to keep an eye on.
    - - - - - - | NOW | 08' VW Jetta 2.0T | - - - - - - - | BEFORE | 04' Mazda 3 GT/GFX | - - - - - -

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    Default Re: Update on ZoomZoom Girl's car corrosion

    I've been trying to get the body shop to send me the 3 "during" pics in an email so I can post them here. No luck so far but I'll keep on trying. I'll take "after" pics next week and also post them since I'm sure some of you would like to see my car looking like it should! The winning blue is definitely back....

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