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    Default fywdyl's logs

    As per Fobio's suggestions, here are some of my logs. All logs were done around a temp of -5*C to about 0*C.

    First two are stock tune logs, I did these when I first got the AP.

    In 3rd gear


    In 4th gear


    You'll notice that even on the stock tune I'm getting some knocking in 3rd gear and the car runs rich to compensate.

    This next one is a Stg1 CS SRI+TIP 91. Also in 3rd.


    It tries to hit boost targets (17.5psi tapering to 16psi), but then the fuel pump craps out on me and you get the "hit a brick wall" feeling. It happens twice for me, once around the 5 sec mark and another time around the 6.6 sec mark. Time for a new fuel pump.

    Fast forward a few months, installed the cp-e CDFP and here are the new logs.

    This tune is Stg1 CS SRI+TIP+CDFP 91. Also in 3rd.


    The fuel pressure is awesome now! This time there are a few boost spikes of almost 20psi at one point, boost targets are 18.5psi tapering to 16.5psi. You will notice that I'm running into the knocking problem again... from 10.5 sec to about 13.3 sec.

    Last is the same tune as above, but I put in Ultra 94 to see if it would do anything to prevent the knocking.

    This tune is Stg1 CS SRI+TIP+CDFP 91 on 94 octane. Also in 3rd.


    Again, boost spiking for a little bit. Up to 21psi at one point (scary). And again, if you look at the highlighted area, I'm seeing knock still. 94 octane, no dice. Again, because of the knock, the car is throwing fuel at the engine and it makes the car run rich.

    I've already bought a set of Denso ITV22 to be installed once my CS TMIC arrives. Until then, I prob won't be doing anymore logs.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    I know the speeds are much higher, but try to do a 4th gear log...in this cold weather, traction might be a problem ,and in third, it looks like it's retarding power to compensate.

    Once we can sort that out then we can address the richness.

    also...what is the boost target for your stg1+ map? I highly doubt it's supposed to target 20psi...did you bump that up yourself?
    Last edited by Fobio; 03-28-2011 at 06:34 PM.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    I'll try to do some 4th gear pulls this weekend depending on the weather. Thanks again Fobio.

    If only the richness was in my bank acct and not my car...

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Quote Originally Posted by fywdyl View Post
    I'll try to do some 4th gear pulls this weekend depending on the weather. Thanks again Fobio.

    If only the richness was in my bank acct and not my car...
    don't we all...

    boost wise, if you're boost tuned and say you're targeting ~17psi, then other than the spike, you look ok...it's possible for the turbo to spike 21psi, and the best way to address that is with a Electronic Boost Control Selenoid...then tuning it in ATR thru WGDC.

    With our CDN weather and wide temp swings, this is I think something to consider.

    What yr is your car?

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    It's a 2010. Awesome, more things to drain my bank acct.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Quote Originally Posted by fywdyl View Post
    It's a 2010. Awesome, more things to drain my bank acct.
    let's start with: did you up your own boost target? are you using boost tuning?

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Have you calibrated your MAF? My numbers were way off when I first put in my high flow CDFP, once I calibrated my MAF everything sorted itself out. All you guys are getting me nervous, I'm going to do some logs this afternoon to make sure everything is still good. Haven't done any all winter, but I haven't been into boost a whole lot either.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Quote Originally Posted by Fobio View Post
    let's start with: did you up your own boost target? are you using boost tuning?
    Nope, didn't touch anything for those runs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean80 View Post
    Have you calibrated your MAF? My numbers were way off when I first put in my high flow CDFP, once I calibrated my MAF everything sorted itself out. All you guys are getting me nervous, I'm going to do some logs this afternoon to make sure everything is still good. Haven't done any all winter, but I haven't been into boost a whole lot either.
    I did it recently, but I haven't done a log since due to the knock that I was getting. I will try to do a log in 4th this weekend thou to see how things are going.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Couldn't wait till the weekend, so I did a log last night.

    Amb temp is about 2*C. This was done in 4th gear.

    Again, some slight boost spiking, some richness in AFR. Nothing new.

    I tried to calibrate the MAF this time, but on idle and cruising speeds, the LTFT is between -3.2 to -1.6.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    For a little more information into what is going on, I suggest raising the knock sensor cutoff limit to 6700 RPM in ATR. If you notice in your earlier datalogs, knock disappears after 5700 RPM. This is because the ECU stops reading knock sensor values after that and won't compensate by adding fuel/reducing timing.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
    For a little more information into what is going on, I suggest raising the knock sensor cutoff limit to 6700 RPM in ATR. If you notice in your earlier datalogs, knock disappears after 5700 RPM. This is because the ECU stops reading knock sensor values after that and won't compensate by adding fuel/reducing timing.
    I agree...this was also brought up by MBNTO when we discussed the previous logs, that KR died at where the knock sensor goes deaf in stock form. Using the new ATR, you can move this up to redline.

    With this new log, the good thing is that the knock isn't the same as the previous logs. Personally, I still think it's a traction issue, as it's still cold outside. In your new log, there's much less KR in the same range right?

    I'm still a little surprised you're hitting 19psi...

    I can't say from looking at the logs, why you might get a bit of knock, but KR under 1 @ WOT is not the end of the world.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Quote Originally Posted by Fobio View Post
    I agree...this was also brought up by MBNTO when we discussed the previous logs, that KR died at where the knock sensor goes deaf in stock form. Using the new ATR, you can move this up to redline.

    With this new log, the good thing is that the knock isn't the same as the previous logs. Personally, I still think it's a traction issue, as it's still cold outside. In your new log, there's much less KR in the same range right?

    I'm still a little surprised you're hitting 19psi...

    I can't say from looking at the logs, why you might get a bit of knock, but KR under 1 @ WOT is not the end of the world.
    Cool, I'll raise the knock sensor thing. I remember reading that somewhere, and I just forgot about it. There's def much less knock in the new log. I'll take your advice and wait for warmer weather before doing anything major.

    The knock thing is just me being anal. I'm one of those guys that HAVE to fix a crooked picture hanging a wall if I see one.

    Thanks guys.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Quote Originally Posted by fywdyl View Post
    The knock thing is just me being anal. I'm one of those guys that HAVE to fix a crooked picture hanging a wall if I see one.
    I wouldn't look at LTFTs as the temperature changes, if I were you. Haha.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueStreak View Post
    I wouldn't look at LTFTs as the temperature changes, if I were you. Haha.
    LTFT's change during partial throttle, but during WOT runs, your LTFT's are basically 0's...if however, you're logging funky LTFT's during WOT, then that is cause for concern. Once you do a few WOT runs and you're ok with the LTFT's then you can definitely leave them out for logs.

    Yes, temp changes will greatly affect your LTFT's, but the range should still be +/- 5% from max to min, or no higher than +/- 8%...as long as they're within this range for partial throttle, you'll be fine.

    And yeah, I'm anal about things that I can fix too...in terms of the knock, the only way to address it, is to ensure you know its cause. And from what I see, I don't think there's anything wrong with your engine at this point...

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Looks like I'm gonna be chasing my tail if I keep trying to get LTFT to be 0s...
    Prob won't do much WOT until I get the plugs in.
    Thanks for the info guys.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Quote Originally Posted by fywdyl View Post
    Looks like I'm gonna be chasing my tail if I keep trying to get LTFT to be 0s...
    Prob won't do much WOT until I get the plugs in.
    Thanks for the info guys.
    as per Cobb, don't chase your tailll...your LTFT's at partial throttle will never be zero's...

    plugs may or may not help, but tuning is difficult if you can't pin down your mechanical setup 100%.

    also...where you log also matters...say, in a new subdivision (good luck...lol...) sand and dirt on the ground affects traction...

    tip: hwy on ramps...late at night...double back and forth if you have to...be safe.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Quote Originally Posted by Fobio View Post
    as per Cobb, don't chase your tailll...your LTFT's at partial throttle will never be zero's...

    plugs may or may not help, but tuning is difficult if you can't pin down your mechanical setup 100%.

    also...where you log also matters...say, in a new subdivision (good luck...lol...) sand and dirt on the ground affects traction...

    tip: hwy on ramps...late at night...double back and forth if you have to...be safe.
    Yup, not gonna chase my tail anymore, I'll leave that to my cat.

    That's where I get my logs done! 404 N in the dead of the night...

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Just installed the CS TMIC over the weekend. I did a couple of logs. First one was with the OTS map, the second one I just upped the AFR to 11.5 and taper to 10.8 at redline.

    Didn't gain any g/s, but that's unimportant, weather's getting warmer so that may be why. Huge difference in the delta of IAT and BAT compared to the previous logs. All in all I'm happy w/ the TMIC.

    I did some revisions to my map. I might load it up tonight and give it a go.

    Edit: Uploaded the maps backwards, so first one is 11.5 AFR and 2nd one is OTS.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Did some new logs after the tweaks. Changed the target boost, changed the TRL tables (as per MSF.org), changed the WGDC.

    There is some knock in some areas. I have pulled some timing in hopes of clearing that up.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    the knock...it's the moment your IAT and BAT climbs...it'll likely happen on your last run of the night...

    ultimately, for a safer tune, taper your Target AFR richer nearer to red line...you can prolly start around 5500rpm...end up around low 11's at 7000rpm...

    Timing changes should your last resort. I would go back to the original timing and add a little fuel instead.
    Last edited by Fobio; 05-13-2011 at 12:58 AM.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Quote Originally Posted by Fobio View Post
    the knock...it's the moment your IAT and BAT climbs...it'll likely happen on your last run of the night...

    ultimately, for a safer tune, taper your Target AFR richer nearer to red line...you can prolly start around 5500rpm...end up around low 11's at 7000rpm...

    Timing changes should your last resort. I would go back to the original timing and add a little fuel instead.
    Thanks for the tip. On the last revision, I lowered the AFR starting at 5500 to 10.8 at 7000. If that helps then I can leave the timing alone. Too bad it's raining all weekend.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    More logs.

    This time I made the AFRs richer and changed the timing back to the OTS map. I'm using Shell 91, so I think the AFRs still have to be richer. Right now it's 11.5 @ 3000 and starts to taper to 10.6 from 5000 to redline.

    The knock isn't as bad as the last log, but there's still some left. Going to drop the AFR to 11.2 to see how it goes.

    I'm not hitting my boost targets beyond 5000rpm, how can I remedy this? Do I increase the TRL tables, or do I increase the WGDC? Right now I'm using the (WGDCx2)+10 formula. Should I try (WGDCx2)+9?

    Thanks.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Quote Originally Posted by fywdyl View Post
    More logs.

    This time I made the AFRs richer and changed the timing back to the OTS map. I'm using Shell 91, so I think the AFRs still have to be richer. Right now it's 11.5 @ 3000 and starts to taper to 10.6 from 5000 to redline.

    The knock isn't as bad as the last log, but there's still some left. Going to drop the AFR to 11.2 to see how it goes.

    I'm not hitting my boost targets beyond 5000rpm, how can I remedy this? Do I increase the TRL tables, or do I increase the WGDC? Right now I'm using the (WGDCx2)+10 formula. Should I try (WGDCx2)+9?

    Thanks.
    You can raise your TRL to a "flatline", then adjust WGDC...or conversely, leave WGDC then adjust TRL...ultimately, one should have more resolution in the WGDC table to play with than the TRL tables, so you can set the TRL tables to say, 2.2 from 3000rpm and up, start off with lower WGDC values, and then tune up to achieve your boost target....assuming your boost target tables is set correctly to start with.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    Quote Originally Posted by Fobio View Post
    You can raise your TRL to a "flatline", then adjust WGDC...or conversely, leave WGDC then adjust TRL...ultimately, one should have more resolution in the WGDC table to play with than the TRL tables, so you can set the TRL tables to say, 2.2 from 3000rpm and up, start off with lower WGDC values, and then tune up to achieve your boost target....assuming your boost target tables is set correctly to start with.
    Man, love the way you explain things... so straight forward. Looks like it's gonna be a busy weekend.

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    Default Re: fywdyl's logs

    I tried the flatline method over the weekend, but I was still over/under boosting at certain points. So what I did was I changed the load to mimic the calc load, then I zeroed out the load dynamics table and tweaked the boost dynamics table and I'm hitting my targets quite nicely now (within +/-1 psi).

    Here are my logs.

    Ignore the knock in the 3rd gear log, the car wasn't properly warmed up yet.

    My next step is to tweak the 1st and 2nd gear so that I'm not spinning the tires when I go WOT. I plan to use the target boost table and the APP table to achieve this. So I'm gonna set a lower boost at, say, 52% pedal position and then just max out 1st gear at 52%. In theory, this should work right?

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