Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 85

Thread: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

  1. #1
    Sponsor - Mspeed Tuning & Diagnostics
    Fobio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    46
    Posts
    6,742
    Thanks
    663
    Thanked 456 Times in 178 Posts
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Lightbulb CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    Here you go guys...

    let's start with the most popular vehicle on this forum...how would one go about prepping a Mazda3 for CASC: OTA? What are some of the rules and nuances one must pay attn to in order to be competitive or at least, have fun?

    MSpeed Tuning & Diagnostics - The Street Lab is always OPEN FOR BUSINESS
    All Powder & Ceramic Coating @ Quy's Coating . Tires and Wheels @ Simply Tire . Wraps by mleblond @ Seche Media . Dyno'd @ Advance Power House . Professionally Serviced by Jimmy @ Street Performance . Signature Pic by PCLoadLetter . Street Tuned by myself .
    "It is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula One Level, think that the brakes are for slowing the car down." -- Mario Andretti

  2. #2
    Sr Member Kiyomi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Age
    33
    Posts
    4,162
    Thanks
    205
    Thanked 453 Times in 259 Posts
    Mentioned
    116 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    where is this held?
    "There is no path to happiness: Happiness is the path " ~Buddha

    "And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." - Ayrton Senna

    "There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man: true nobility is being superior to your former self" -Ernest Hemingway

  3. #3
    Sr Member thanu31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Scarborough
    Age
    34
    Ride
    2003 Honda S2000
    Posts
    2,744
    Thanks
    76
    Thanked 87 Times in 42 Posts
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    Quote Originally Posted by MZ3-Kiyomi_17 View Post
    where is this held?
    more the one place.
    get registered on the CASC forum, theres a lot of information --> http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11
    Past:
    2003 Protege5
    2007 Mazda3 GT
    2002 E46
    ///M
    2010 Mazdaspeed3
    2003 Honda S2000
    Current:
    2005 S2000

  4. #4
    Noob
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Ride
    Chevy
    Posts
    37
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    The classification system in OTA is an interesting one - it's like the one NASA uses in the states in the sense that you accumulate points for modifications and they eventually bump you up a class.

    For those that don't know, you can classify your car on this site: http://www.macrocosm.on.ca/ccdb/

    Coming from a guy with a Prelude I would argue the system certainly has its pitfalls. I think it is generally too hard on the FWD sport compacts. The Speed3 for example has a "handling index" of 70 - the same as an RX8. Not reasonable considering the Speed3's econobox roots, FWD-ness, and other factors, but it is what it is - and handling index is only a portion of the system, for the most part it is based on power to weight.

    The idea of the system is to allow any given car, from stock to highly modified ones, to walk into the series and have a shot at competing effectively with good driving. It does a decent job of doing this if you don't take it too seriously.

    The reason I like it for all its foibles is that at the end of the day it puts the responsibility for lap times on the driver and not the car. Sure I could have gotten the Prelude out of the 40s at MIR with better tires, but my class would have been upgraded to reflect the fact that it was my car that was faster, not my driving. To score better you need to drive faster. That has helped me focus on improving as a driver.


    My advice for setting up a modern sport compact with pretty decent dynamics from the factory (eg, Prelude or the 3/Speed3) would be:

    Don't add too much power, street tires, front camber, very big rear ARB.

    • Street tires: A stockish car, especially one with struts like the 3 will have trouble dealing with sticky tires. Lots of body roll leads to the tire decambering. Street tires produce less grip and drop you down two classes, but that might make you more competitive.
    • Camber: "Non-stock alignment", eg, an alignment outside of factory specs is only 1 suspension PIP and pretty cheap for what you get. Choosing how much camber you want on a strut based FWD car is tricky - but you want more than stock that's for sure.
    • Rear ARB: Again only 1 pip and starts to address body roll while using the rear axle to soak up as much load transfer as possible. Means more front grip for other stuff, which is good. This combined with front camber can make for a touchy car to drive so don't overdo it - set up the car within your abilities to drive it otherwise you will go slower.
    • Not too much power: The system doesn't account for the fact that high power FWD cars don't put their power down very well. Making such a setup work is not easy, although it is possible. I think both the 3 and Speed3 will get enough power out of engine mods that they won't kill you (especially if you qualify to use a dyno submission, read the fine print on that carefully). But adding power in a FWD car is tricky.

    A few more notes:
    Brakes are FREE, but you don't need that much in braking to just do 3 laps
    Chassis bracing is FREE, but keep in mind it adds mass
    If you can replace all the suspension bushings on the car for 1 pip - it's also a cheap pip if you do everything.


    Fully built suspensions: In my Prelude I took pips for alignment, shocks, springs and a rear bar. I kept them on because it made the car more fun. Keep in mind that on street tires with a car that handles well stock don't expect a lot of time out of a suspension setup unless it is really well engineered and aggressive. It is hard to come out ahead when you do everything, although it is possible.


    At the end of the day I would suggest keeping things simple and don't take the system too seriously. I went from 20th overall in 2010 to 3rd overall in 2011 by changing cars. It just helps you benchmark against yourself, and a bit against others. Fobio's car is in SGT1 for example, but if I was driving it I would probably be happy with SGT3 times, for example.

  5. #5
    Moderator Mr Wilson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Posts
    4,621
    Thanks
    1,341
    Thanked 700 Times in 381 Posts
    Mentioned
    227 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    Lloyd, thanks for the post. Super informative!
    0.000212524463 gigawatts

  6. #6
    Sponsor - Mspeed Tuning & Diagnostics
    Fobio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    46
    Posts
    6,742
    Thanks
    663
    Thanked 456 Times in 178 Posts
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    Thanks Lloyd!

    Guys, if you have plans to run OTA, please feel free to ask your questions here. Not every forum has the luxury of a resident OTA rep to help them navigate thru the rules and all the fine print. Gathering enough interest and momentum in a particular series will help us focus our efforts for bigger things.

  7. #7
    Noob
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Ride
    Chevy
    Posts
    37
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    Thanks guys

    Happy to help anyone with any questions about the series.

    And for what it's worth FWD certainly can work. I lost this year to a SOHC CRX which placed 2nd... and the enmo.ca has run in the series in both low and high power configurations and done well (which is a pretty built car).

  8. #8
    Sr Member thanu31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Scarborough
    Age
    34
    Ride
    2003 Honda S2000
    Posts
    2,744
    Thanks
    76
    Thanked 87 Times in 42 Posts
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    So I did some reading up on casc, but can you guys help clarify some things?

    I see it says you need to be apart of an affiliated club? And we need a C-class licence, but that link does not work any more.

    So basically, we are competing against our class right? For the regular 3's I guess we are all grouped in GT4 unless applicable mods bump us up right?

    Lastly, what kind of costs are we looking at to be a part of the OTA.


    Really interested in being apart of the series next year, hope you guys could help out.
    Thanks

  9. #9
    Noob
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Ride
    Chevy
    Posts
    37
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    CASC essentially an organization composed of a bunch of car clubs. So to run CASC events you need to be part of one of the clubs. http://www.casc.on.ca/club_list

    The Class C license covers some costs like insurance and timing equipment. I'm not entirely sure if it will be around for Time Attack again this year or if the fees will just be rolled into the event fees, but either way the cost will be about the same, just a difference in administration. You might find the link working better now....

    The scoring system is able to relate different classes against each other and there is an "overall" championship as well as class championships. Lots of folks focus on just winning their class which can be challenging in of itself in big classes.

    2012 will be a best 7 of 10 events, two of which will be at Grand Bend, the new track down by Lake Erie, with the rest at the usual collection of DDT/MIR/TMP/Shannonville (Pro and Long). Cost per event, if you pre-pay at the Open House in April is usually in the mid-low $100s per event at short tracks, and the mid-high $100s for MIR. I'm not sure what pricing for 2012 will be like, and it again depends if the Class C is rolled into events or not - either way it is likely to be cost neutral.

    So if you want to run enough events to compete for a trophy it is roughly $1000 for enough track events to fill up a summer. I found my Prelude pretty reasonable to run, a full season would take about:

    1 set of "street" tires
    1.5 sets of front pads (HP+/DS2500)
    1-2 sets of front rotors
    1 oil change (use good oil)
    1 brake fluid change (use good fluid)


    The new car is a bit more than that, although not much more. I would think a base 3 would be a little less in brakes and a Speed 3 would be a bit more.


    The base class listed in the CCDB is on premium R comp tires by the way (eg, Hoosier R6). Drop 1 class if you put on a treaded R (eg, RA1/R888/NT01), or 2 classes for a 140+ TW "street" tire.

  10. #10
    Member breakfasteatre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,385
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked 130 Times in 70 Posts
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    subbed
    Oh damn, that sucks. Oh well, I stopped reading the Speed section because according to certain people only speed owners are allowed to even look at that section.

  11. #11
    Member breakfasteatre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,385
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked 130 Times in 70 Posts
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    What is a TW "street" tire?

  12. #12
    Noob
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Toronto
    Ride
    Chevy
    Posts
    37
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    TW = treadwear

    140 is the arbitrary line that a lot of organizations (eg, SCCA) use to determine what a "street" tire is.

  13. #13
    Member breakfasteatre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,385
    Thanks
    17
    Thanked 130 Times in 70 Posts
    Mentioned
    35 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    thanks lloyd

  14. #14
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Age
    48
    Ride
    2010 Mazda MX-5
    Posts
    209
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    While I am lucky since the MX-5 is an incredible platform to build a competitive car from, most of what I'm going to say applies to any car. In stock form the MX-5 is a bit underpowered and a bit soft for what we do but I realized I could change that.

    I also realized that if I wanted to build a class competitive car, I needed to choose my modifications carefully. The guys in the U.S. are hyper-competitive at everything, so I started reading what they did and what worked (and what didn't) and found that since my car is used as the basis as a race car in the MX-5 Cup series, I could learn a lot from those cars and drivers.

    The same goes for the Mazda3, there are people that race them now and more recently the 2010 Mazdaspeed3 is raced in the Grand Am/Koni Challenge/Continental Series. What are they doing to it that could translate to any Mazda3? The off season is the best time for research.

    So once I figured that out, I optimized the mods I was planning on doing. I took pips for shocks and springs but run the same spring rates as the MX-5 Cup cars, I also run the exact same sway bars from a Cup car as well. So I've used a proven set-up that should help me go fast. I worried less about power in my car and more about handling. Like Lloyd, I'd recommend you guys do the same.

    Due to my select group of mods and street tires, I am currently in GT3. At the end of the day it all depends on how competitive you want to be in your class. I like the challenge. However my #1 recommendation is seat time. Get as much feedback you can and as many people in the car with you as possible. Just be willing to learn and don't get discouraged because fun is what its all about.
    2010 Competition Yellow Mazda MX-5 - Motul Fluids, AEM CAI, Goodwin Racing Header & Midpipe, RoadsterSport Exhaust, AutoEXE FSTB, Mazdaspeed Sway Bars, AWR End Links, JIC FLT-TAR Coilovers w/Swift Springs, 949Racing Forged Lugs, 17x9 TR Motorsports C3's with 245/40/17 Kumho Ecsta V710's, 17x9 Enkei RPF1's with 235/40/17 Advan AD08's

  15. #15
    Sponsor - Mspeed Tuning & Diagnostics
    MajesticBlueNTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    3,287
    Thanks
    77
    Thanked 241 Times in 113 Posts
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    I did some mock-ups of a regular 3 on the CCDB

    * base class GT4

    note, intakes and cat-back exhausts appear to be free

    Common Mods Config 1 - GT4 (grooved/premium R-compounds bumps up to GT2, treaded R's bumps up to GT3)
    * Header
    * no cat (with cat doesn't change class)
    * street tires
    * front sway bar
    * rear sway bar
    * shocks (includes coilovers)
    * springs (includes coilovers)

    Common Mods Config 2 - T1 (grooved/premium R's bumps up to GT3, treaded R's bumps up to GT4)
    * street tires
    * shocks
    * springs
    * front sway bar
    * rear sway bar

    Common Mods Config 3 - GT4 (grooved/premium R's bumps up to GT2, treaded R's bumps up to GT3)
    * cat delete
    * street tires
    * shocks
    * springs
    * front sway bar
    * rear sway bar

    Common Mods Config 4 - T1 (grooved/premium R's bumps up to GT3, treaded R's bumps up to GT4)
    * street tires
    * shocks
    * springs

    Results from 2011 ...note that the overall champion was an 01 Mustang GT classed in T1, and 2nd was an 89 Honda CRX in GT4

  16. #16
    Noob
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    21
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    Some great information in this thread, very impressed. I'm the driver of the 03 Mustang GT that won last year. Funny enough, I was looking to buy a Mazda 3 last year:

    http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/sh...ht=#post716330

    That should tell you guys that the car has a chance to do really well in Ontario Time Attack if you're competitive, and if not, it's still a great car to learn on and have fun in.

    Majestic Blue has done the hard work in quickly figuring out the MZ3 classifications. Just FYI, last year, I was looking at getting it into T3 so basically stock everything and just camber (maybe).

  17. #17
    Newbie
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Age
    48
    Ride
    2010 Mazda MX-5
    Posts
    209
    Thanks
    0
    Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    Modern cars are tuned to run with cats so there isn't the performance gain there once was from removing them. If I had a Mazda3 I would look at running T1 on street tires.

  18. #18
    Sr Member thanu31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Scarborough
    Age
    34
    Ride
    2003 Honda S2000
    Posts
    2,744
    Thanks
    76
    Thanked 87 Times in 42 Posts
    Mentioned
    19 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    thanks for the info lloyd

  19. #19
    Sponsor - Mspeed Tuning & Diagnostics
    MajesticBlueNTO's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Posts
    3,287
    Thanks
    77
    Thanked 241 Times in 113 Posts
    Mentioned
    49 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    Found the 2012 CASC Time Attack schedule on the CASC forums

    I'm planning on the MIR dates as I can use as much seat time at MIR as possible and CASC had some of the cheapest prices when paid at the Open House.

    Grand Bend Raceway is out by Lake Huron... the track configs look interesting

  20. #20
    Sponsor - Mspeed Tuning & Diagnostics
    Fobio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    46
    Posts
    6,742
    Thanks
    663
    Thanked 456 Times in 178 Posts
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    Those MIR dates are pretty good...and I would like to try out Grand Bend, even tho it's another "flat" course. And Grand Bend...it's always fun to hang out on the 10km+ long white sand beach!

  21. #21
    Member standsideways's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,643
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fobio View Post
    Here you go guys...

    let's start with the most popular vehicle on this forum...how would one go about prepping a Mazda3 for CASC: OTA? What are some of the rules and nuances one must pay attn to in order to be competitive or at least, have fun?
    Ide love to run my car in OTA.. But the rules arent in my favor.

  22. #22
    Sponsor - Mspeed Tuning & Diagnostics
    Fobio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    46
    Posts
    6,742
    Thanks
    663
    Thanked 456 Times in 178 Posts
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    Quote Originally Posted by standsideways View Post
    Ide love to run my car in OTA.. But the rules arent in my favor.
    and I've posted that they're not in mine either...but it's not like I'll get upset about it...at the end of the day, fun comes first for me.

    having said that, note that any regionally sanctioned series (official, in the eyes of the FIA) will run a proper rule-book.

    Nothing stops us from running a "Mazda3-only series" on TM3 based off of the points. =) But of course, we need enough interest and momentum.

  23. #23
    Member standsideways's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,643
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fobio View Post
    and I've posted that they're not in mine either...but it's not like I'll get upset about it...at the end of the day, fun comes first for me.
    .
    My 2.3 turbo sedan gets more PIP than youd think, wich really basically puts my car out.

    I bet it gets quite a few more than your speed3!!

  24. #24
    Sponsor - Mspeed Tuning & Diagnostics
    Fobio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Age
    46
    Posts
    6,742
    Thanks
    663
    Thanked 456 Times in 178 Posts
    Mentioned
    173 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default Re: CASC: Ontario Time Attack 101

    Quote Originally Posted by standsideways View Post
    My 2.3 turbo sedan gets more PIP than youd think, wich really basically puts my car out.

    I bet it gets quite a few more than your speed3!!
    Not my speed3, my friend...but it's not like I'm gloating or anything. I can get into the Mod class just by changing tires...lol...and as it stands, I'm already in SGT1.

    Also, I'm talking about running our own series...but I'll let MBNTO chime in since he's got some ideas as well.

  25. #25
    Member standsideways's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    1,643
    Thanks
    13
    Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post
    Mentioned
    5 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fobio View Post
    Not my speed3, my friend...but it's not like I'm gloating or anything. I can get into the Mod class just by changing tires...lol...and as it stands, I'm already in SGT1.
    It looks like im up at about 45 pip and 10bpip

    Is that around what you have fobio?

    Ide be up for it but it seems like im in need of a cage,supression system, and all the other racing gear, wich is more $ than running an entire season at cscs + more track days.

    I like the mazda series idea also, with the way people are buying up mazdas im sure itd be a great series, and mazda would always be in on some racing!

Page 1 of 4 123 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Mosport - Canadian Time Attack Championship
    By Lloyd in forum Other Events
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-26-2011, 10:03 AM
  2. Announcing the 2011 Ontario Time Attack Season
    By Lloyd in forum Tracking/Handling
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-10-2011, 03:39 PM
  3. SEMA Time Attack 3
    By Mr Wilson in forum Mazda3 General Discussion
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 11-10-2010, 06:13 PM
  4. SPDA Attack Time Trial Series
    By sjd in forum Tracking/Handling
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: 07-23-2009, 08:11 AM
  5. Pics... 06 HB GT with 18' ADVANTI M85 Time Attack
    By hammer in forum Wheels & Tires
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 05-14-2009, 02:02 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •