Here you go guys...
let's start with the most popular vehicle on this forum...how would one go about prepping a Mazda3 for CASC: OTA? What are some of the rules and nuances one must pay attn to in order to be competitive or at least, have fun?
Here you go guys...
let's start with the most popular vehicle on this forum...how would one go about prepping a Mazda3 for CASC: OTA? What are some of the rules and nuances one must pay attn to in order to be competitive or at least, have fun?
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"It is amazing how many drivers, even at the Formula One Level, think that the brakes are for slowing the car down." -- Mario Andretti
where is this held?
"There is no path to happiness: Happiness is the path " ~Buddha
"And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." - Ayrton Senna
"There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man: true nobility is being superior to your former self" -Ernest Hemingway
more the one place.
get registered on the CASC forum, theres a lot of information --> http://www.casc.on.ca/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=11
Past:
2003 Protege5
2007 Mazda3 GT
2002 E46 ///M
2010 Mazdaspeed3
2003 Honda S2000
Current:
2005 S2000
The classification system in OTA is an interesting one - it's like the one NASA uses in the states in the sense that you accumulate points for modifications and they eventually bump you up a class.
For those that don't know, you can classify your car on this site: http://www.macrocosm.on.ca/ccdb/
Coming from a guy with a Prelude I would argue the system certainly has its pitfalls. I think it is generally too hard on the FWD sport compacts. The Speed3 for example has a "handling index" of 70 - the same as an RX8. Not reasonable considering the Speed3's econobox roots, FWD-ness, and other factors, but it is what it is - and handling index is only a portion of the system, for the most part it is based on power to weight.
The idea of the system is to allow any given car, from stock to highly modified ones, to walk into the series and have a shot at competing effectively with good driving. It does a decent job of doing this if you don't take it too seriously.
The reason I like it for all its foibles is that at the end of the day it puts the responsibility for lap times on the driver and not the car. Sure I could have gotten the Prelude out of the 40s at MIR with better tires, but my class would have been upgraded to reflect the fact that it was my car that was faster, not my driving. To score better you need to drive faster. That has helped me focus on improving as a driver.
My advice for setting up a modern sport compact with pretty decent dynamics from the factory (eg, Prelude or the 3/Speed3) would be:
Don't add too much power, street tires, front camber, very big rear ARB.
- Street tires: A stockish car, especially one with struts like the 3 will have trouble dealing with sticky tires. Lots of body roll leads to the tire decambering. Street tires produce less grip and drop you down two classes, but that might make you more competitive.
- Camber: "Non-stock alignment", eg, an alignment outside of factory specs is only 1 suspension PIP and pretty cheap for what you get. Choosing how much camber you want on a strut based FWD car is tricky - but you want more than stock that's for sure.
- Rear ARB: Again only 1 pip and starts to address body roll while using the rear axle to soak up as much load transfer as possible. Means more front grip for other stuff, which is good. This combined with front camber can make for a touchy car to drive so don't overdo it - set up the car within your abilities to drive it otherwise you will go slower.
- Not too much power: The system doesn't account for the fact that high power FWD cars don't put their power down very well. Making such a setup work is not easy, although it is possible. I think both the 3 and Speed3 will get enough power out of engine mods that they won't kill you (especially if you qualify to use a dyno submission, read the fine print on that carefully). But adding power in a FWD car is tricky.
A few more notes:
Brakes are FREE, but you don't need that much in braking to just do 3 laps
Chassis bracing is FREE, but keep in mind it adds mass
If you can replace all the suspension bushings on the car for 1 pip - it's also a cheap pip if you do everything.
Fully built suspensions: In my Prelude I took pips for alignment, shocks, springs and a rear bar. I kept them on because it made the car more fun. Keep in mind that on street tires with a car that handles well stock don't expect a lot of time out of a suspension setup unless it is really well engineered and aggressive. It is hard to come out ahead when you do everything, although it is possible.
At the end of the day I would suggest keeping things simple and don't take the system too seriously. I went from 20th overall in 2010 to 3rd overall in 2011 by changing cars. It just helps you benchmark against yourself, and a bit against others. Fobio's car is in SGT1 for example, but if I was driving it I would probably be happy with SGT3 times, for example.
Lloyd, thanks for the post. Super informative!
0.000212524463 gigawatts
Thanks Lloyd!
Guys, if you have plans to run OTA, please feel free to ask your questions here. Not every forum has the luxury of a resident OTA rep to help them navigate thru the rules and all the fine print. Gathering enough interest and momentum in a particular series will help us focus our efforts for bigger things.
Thanks guys
Happy to help anyone with any questions about the series.
And for what it's worth FWD certainly can work. I lost this year to a SOHC CRX which placed 2nd... and the enmo.ca has run in the series in both low and high power configurations and done well (which is a pretty built car).
So I did some reading up on casc, but can you guys help clarify some things?
I see it says you need to be apart of an affiliated club? And we need a C-class licence, but that link does not work any more.
So basically, we are competing against our class right? For the regular 3's I guess we are all grouped in GT4 unless applicable mods bump us up right?
Lastly, what kind of costs are we looking at to be a part of the OTA.
Really interested in being apart of the series next year, hope you guys could help out.
Thanks
CASC essentially an organization composed of a bunch of car clubs. So to run CASC events you need to be part of one of the clubs. http://www.casc.on.ca/club_list
The Class C license covers some costs like insurance and timing equipment. I'm not entirely sure if it will be around for Time Attack again this year or if the fees will just be rolled into the event fees, but either way the cost will be about the same, just a difference in administration. You might find the link working better now....
The scoring system is able to relate different classes against each other and there is an "overall" championship as well as class championships. Lots of folks focus on just winning their class which can be challenging in of itself in big classes.
2012 will be a best 7 of 10 events, two of which will be at Grand Bend, the new track down by Lake Erie, with the rest at the usual collection of DDT/MIR/TMP/Shannonville (Pro and Long). Cost per event, if you pre-pay at the Open House in April is usually in the mid-low $100s per event at short tracks, and the mid-high $100s for MIR. I'm not sure what pricing for 2012 will be like, and it again depends if the Class C is rolled into events or not - either way it is likely to be cost neutral.
So if you want to run enough events to compete for a trophy it is roughly $1000 for enough track events to fill up a summer. I found my Prelude pretty reasonable to run, a full season would take about:
1 set of "street" tires
1.5 sets of front pads (HP+/DS2500)
1-2 sets of front rotors
1 oil change (use good oil)
1 brake fluid change (use good fluid)
The new car is a bit more than that, although not much more. I would think a base 3 would be a little less in brakes and a Speed 3 would be a bit more.
The base class listed in the CCDB is on premium R comp tires by the way (eg, Hoosier R6). Drop 1 class if you put on a treaded R (eg, RA1/R888/NT01), or 2 classes for a 140+ TW "street" tire.
subbed
Oh damn, that sucks. Oh well, I stopped reading the Speed section because according to certain people only speed owners are allowed to even look at that section.
What is a TW "street" tire?
TW = treadwear
140 is the arbitrary line that a lot of organizations (eg, SCCA) use to determine what a "street" tire is.
thanks lloyd
While I am lucky since the MX-5 is an incredible platform to build a competitive car from, most of what I'm going to say applies to any car. In stock form the MX-5 is a bit underpowered and a bit soft for what we do but I realized I could change that.
I also realized that if I wanted to build a class competitive car, I needed to choose my modifications carefully. The guys in the U.S. are hyper-competitive at everything, so I started reading what they did and what worked (and what didn't) and found that since my car is used as the basis as a race car in the MX-5 Cup series, I could learn a lot from those cars and drivers.
The same goes for the Mazda3, there are people that race them now and more recently the 2010 Mazdaspeed3 is raced in the Grand Am/Koni Challenge/Continental Series. What are they doing to it that could translate to any Mazda3? The off season is the best time for research.
So once I figured that out, I optimized the mods I was planning on doing. I took pips for shocks and springs but run the same spring rates as the MX-5 Cup cars, I also run the exact same sway bars from a Cup car as well. So I've used a proven set-up that should help me go fast. I worried less about power in my car and more about handling. Like Lloyd, I'd recommend you guys do the same.
Due to my select group of mods and street tires, I am currently in GT3. At the end of the day it all depends on how competitive you want to be in your class. I like the challenge. However my #1 recommendation is seat time. Get as much feedback you can and as many people in the car with you as possible. Just be willing to learn and don't get discouraged because fun is what its all about.
2010 Competition Yellow Mazda MX-5 - Motul Fluids, AEM CAI, Goodwin Racing Header & Midpipe, RoadsterSport Exhaust, AutoEXE FSTB, Mazdaspeed Sway Bars, AWR End Links, JIC FLT-TAR Coilovers w/Swift Springs, 949Racing Forged Lugs, 17x9 TR Motorsports C3's with 245/40/17 Kumho Ecsta V710's, 17x9 Enkei RPF1's with 235/40/17 Advan AD08's
I did some mock-ups of a regular 3 on the CCDB
* base class GT4
note, intakes and cat-back exhausts appear to be free
Common Mods Config 1 - GT4 (grooved/premium R-compounds bumps up to GT2, treaded R's bumps up to GT3)
* Header
* no cat (with cat doesn't change class)
* street tires
* front sway bar
* rear sway bar
* shocks (includes coilovers)
* springs (includes coilovers)
Common Mods Config 2 - T1 (grooved/premium R's bumps up to GT3, treaded R's bumps up to GT4)
* street tires
* shocks
* springs
* front sway bar
* rear sway bar
Common Mods Config 3 - GT4 (grooved/premium R's bumps up to GT2, treaded R's bumps up to GT3)
* cat delete
* street tires
* shocks
* springs
* front sway bar
* rear sway bar
Common Mods Config 4 - T1 (grooved/premium R's bumps up to GT3, treaded R's bumps up to GT4)
* street tires
* shocks
* springs
Results from 2011 ...note that the overall champion was an 01 Mustang GT classed in T1, and 2nd was an 89 Honda CRX in GT4
Some great information in this thread, very impressed. I'm the driver of the 03 Mustang GT that won last year. Funny enough, I was looking to buy a Mazda 3 last year:
http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/sh...ht=#post716330
That should tell you guys that the car has a chance to do really well in Ontario Time Attack if you're competitive, and if not, it's still a great car to learn on and have fun in.
Majestic Blue has done the hard work in quickly figuring out the MZ3 classifications. Just FYI, last year, I was looking at getting it into T3 so basically stock everything and just camber (maybe).
Modern cars are tuned to run with cats so there isn't the performance gain there once was from removing them. If I had a Mazda3 I would look at running T1 on street tires.
thanks for the info lloyd
Found the 2012 CASC Time Attack schedule on the CASC forums
I'm planning on the MIR dates as I can use as much seat time at MIR as possible and CASC had some of the cheapest prices when paid at the Open House.
Grand Bend Raceway is out by Lake Huron... the track configs look interesting
Those MIR dates are pretty good...and I would like to try out Grand Bend, even tho it's another "flat" course. And Grand Bend...it's always fun to hang out on the 10km+ long white sand beach!
and I've posted that they're not in mine either...but it's not like I'll get upset about it...at the end of the day, fun comes first for me.
having said that, note that any regionally sanctioned series (official, in the eyes of the FIA) will run a proper rule-book.
Nothing stops us from running a "Mazda3-only series" on TM3 based off of the points. =) But of course, we need enough interest and momentum.
Not my speed3, my friend...but it's not like I'm gloating or anything. I can get into the Mod class just by changing tires...lol...and as it stands, I'm already in SGT1.
Also, I'm talking about running our own series...but I'll let MBNTO chime in since he's got some ideas as well.
It looks like im up at about 45 pip and 10bpip
Is that around what you have fobio?
Ide be up for it but it seems like im in need of a cage,supression system, and all the other racing gear, wich is more $ than running an entire season at cscs + more track days.
I like the mazda series idea also, with the way people are buying up mazdas im sure itd be a great series, and mazda would always be in on some racing!