MS3/DISI - Low Compression Discussion

[Fobio]

As the cars pass from new owners through to 2nd and even 3rd hand owners, a lot of information DOES NOT get passed on from one owner to the next. This is something that was not discussed openly as these issues sometimes arised from insufficient fueling capacity of the stock DISI drivetrain and 2007 MS3's suffered this when hard parts were added and no tuning solution was available and the HPFP couldn't keep up. Many owners at the time and still are concerned about resale value and these issues weighed heavily but never discussed.

Recently, there are a number of guys that came to MSpeed looking for a tune... From the get-go, I'm weary of tuning cars and owners that I don't know personally but I was open to meeting the new guys and helping them out. I was also insistent on doing a engine compression test and boost leak test on top of tuning, as part of the diagnostic service. Most passed...some required tightening of hoses...but some also had low engine compression. The cause(s) of low compression is discussed at length on MSF so I am not going to go into details. Mechanically speaking, it's a matter of overheating...and there are many and varied potential causes, one of which is tuning. At MSpeed, my tuning philosophy is tune for smoothness and the power will come naturally. This stems from our group's shared interest in road racing and the need for a smooth and consistent tune is paramount over power...it just so happens a nice track tune translates into pretty awesome street tunes in the right hands.

Beyond this, there's also methanol injection and guys getting tuned for meth and running out. One of the fastest MS3's to have been on Mosport GP track ran his hot tune without meth for 2 days and lost his engine. It's not rocket science, but compared to stock cars where you just change oil and add gas, sometimes our cars might as well be...if not a risky science fair project.

Anyway, a few guys here have recently remedied their engines with low compression. Some of us rebuild...some of us replace parts...some of us don't do anything, and that's fine cuz low compression in most cases, doesn't mean your car will blow up. In fact, all else being equal and unless you did something stupid to cause it, low compression usually just means you ain't making anymore power tomorrow than you did today...bro...

I will talk a bit more on that last point in the next installment of the Mod Path on Med/Big Turbo's. In the meantime, I want to see if the guys who have recently completed a rebuild are willing to share their experience.

Low compression doesn't mean your car is dead. There may be other issues that are causing it to make it worse and it can be fixed. So let's hear it...let's start with @mikey32235. Please share with us how you discovered the issue and how you went about dealing with it.

@MPS

[SomeGuy]

I usually give you (mspeed) guys a hard time but +1 to this post.

[S.F.W.]

MPS can't post..perma banned

[-cj-]

I usually give you (mspeed) guys a hard time but +1 to this post.

[Fack_Dude]

Epic fail. Haha

[Fobio]

MPS can't post..perma banned

He can read it without logging in tho right?

[S.F.W.]

He can read it without logging in tho right?

yes

[mikey32235]

sorry for the late response, i was not aware of this thread. nor did i see my tag.

I bought my speed back in 2012 june, with about 70km on it, the body was in great shape, it had a cpe cat back exhaust and i really enjoyed the way it drove. Picked it up for a pretty good price 16000 taxes in. I purchased it from 'the collection fine cars'. the gentleman there was a taller asian guy with long hair. don't remember his name but he knocked down the price significantly, and i bought it. After driving it for about a week i discovered the white smoke coming from the exhaust. ( my mistake from not noticing this from before, or looking up flaws in the speed 3, i was car-less for about 2 months after selling my S60R, i was in a rush to get a car). Anyways i drove it like that for about a month because the white smoke wasn't so much. the seal completely blew and there was no power from the turbo. picked up a rebuilt turbo from a mechanic down at buds mazda who takes all the cores and rebuilds them. after this i started modding. picked up an SRI, GFB bypass valve, coil overs ( switched to koni/eibach, ride was toooooo stiff for everyday driving), picked up a down pipe and internals, access port, FMIC, exhaust manifold. After running a tune from cobb, i just didn't feel like the car had enough power, by this time I've already been through 3 stock K04's, including the one already on the car. So, i ran a compression test. from what i remember the numbers from left to right cylinder 1-2-3-4… compression read 185-185-165-185. after reading this i found out that speeds have a common bad cylinder 3. after finding this out i just got fed up with the car and posted it online for sale. i felt like i got ripped off so i just threw it on and within the first 6 hours i had a sale pending. a guy came drove the car and he said he wants to buy it. i told him i need to find myself a car first before i sell it to you. after a week of searching i was about to put a deposit on an FRS. But, with the situation I'm in, i said to myself if i bought the FRS, id be deep in some monthly payments, so that means NO MODDING!… then i looked into the speed again, and i thought if i were to build the motor, i can put more power, safely and enjoy the car that i already have paid for. in the long run, it made more sense to build the speed.

So fast forward now to june of 2013, i got on the phone with eric at edge auto sport, we ordered ALL the parts i needed. overbore pistons, H beam rods, complete gasket kit, mahle oversize bearings, mahle undersize bearings, meth kit, catch can, grim speed ebcs, race pipe, thermal intake gaskets, cosmetic head gasket, big intake, 3 bar map sensor and probably some more things i am forgetting.. As for the turbo, i was really debating which size i wanted to go with. I was not sure how much power i can handle, if i go too big or too small. So i decided to go with the GT2871r.. after discussing with eric he advised me to take a look at the BNR S3 turbo. for the same turbine and less price, i decided to send a core out to brian at BNR for $1200 vs $1700. after receiving the core back it came to about 1500 after shipping both ways, duty and taxes. so I'm assuming the GT being much bigger in size and heavier, it would be over 2000 after everything.

All the parts everything shipped to my door i was looking at about $3500-$4000. Luckily i worked at the time at canadian tire as a service advisor. I was able to have access to a hoist. I did all of the labor myself, removing the block, putting all of the parts on etc. I made a ton of calls to local machine shops, but the prices were brutal. i will not state shop names, but they were all local in GTA and quoted me anywhere from the $2500 to $6000 range for the rebuild. and that is me sending them the block myself. and using all my parts, i thought this was insane. one of my technicians approached me and told him to give Rainbow engines a call right on bullock. He said he knew the owners father very well before he passed away. Now his son runs the place. I went for a drive to speak with him, the shop inside looks like a DISASTER! parts everywhere, blocks everywhere, bins full of gears, cams etc… so i was nervous about leaving my block and head here. But, i trusted my technician. I spoke with Paul the current owner, he told me he will rebuild the block for 500 CASH, not 5000, 500! and rebuild the head for 200, a total of 700$. i was in complete shock. he also said he will pick up the block and drop it off. So right after speaking with him i wasted no time and started the teardown in mid october. After two days i had the block stripped and it was ready for pickup. Paul came in his jeep picked up the block and it took about 3 weeks to receive it back. he re-finished the crankshaft, cams, head, bored and honed the block, etc.

beginning of november paul returned the block to me and the re assembly began. the re assembly took me about a week to do as i was working at the shop at the same time. after completion, i towed the car to Brian at APH and we did a base tune to break in the motor for 500km, brian is a great guy and i enjoyed working with him, staying later than close to finish my car, and wait for me as i pick it up, also we had a small problem with my access port screen not turning on, we tried directly tuning the ecu and it locked up. unfortunately the next day brian was leaving for hong kong and i had to send my ecu out to get it unlocked from cobb. this took some time, when brian returned we tuned for power.. During the break in process everything seemed fine and i had absolutely no issues. a week later i went back to brian and he tuned the car making 348whp and 414wtq. I was very happy and the car had a ton of power, it was pretty crazy. But i was also a little confused, i thought i would be making closer to 380+whp.

after doing some logs and talking to a few friends here on the forum, i was advised to do some logs and get them looked over. I spoke to a few people an they suggested maybe getting a street tune done, they all said i could be making more power… so me being as curious as i am I spoke with Lex at Stratified tuning and we have begun tuning. I will be completely honest right now, i am really enjoying the tune from lex as i find that the shifts are a lot smoother. with the previous tune each time i shift or let go of the gas it was boggy and would always jump. no matter how slow i let go of the clutch..

fast forward a few weeks later till today. Lex suggested i upgrade to a bigger nozzle and go 100% meth. I did so and ran into a small problem the other day. after looking at my logs it seems like my meth is not injecting. the light comes on, but no meth as my bats were still higher and did not decrease. This weekend i might try to see if its a bad ground, or manually turn the pump on. if it does not work i will have to go see jimmy and as him to replace it for me as i am just so tired of fixing the speed. ( the past few months i ran into some small problems, valve cover gasket leak, catch can leak, i can truthfully say I'm fed up with siting on my ass fixing the car.) I had to put a pause to the tuning process until i fix the meth issue. this is where i stand now.

Overall, the experience of building a car with my own two hands was great. Ive been dreaming of doing something like this for a long time and yes i know problems come with it which is what is expected. But i did enjoy it. Would i do this again? probably not. my next build i will definitely pay someone to do it for me. just so if i run into any problems its their problem not mine

the current status for my speed, i hate it because it is not running the way i want, with the meth not working lol.

But when it runs perfectly thats when i do enjoy it. hopefully by the time the weather warms up i have everything working, I'm fully tuned, and then i can post results of both tuners as i find they are both great.

Thanks @Fobio for giving me the opportunity to share my experience.

-Mikey

[MPS]

like **** i am
i wish i was
stop talking about me

[MPS]

like f@ck i am
i wish i was
stop talking about me

yes

[Fobio]

like f@ck i am
i wish i was
stop talking about me

This thread is for you. Shut up and read.

EDIT: LOL...HAHAHAHA...

[MPS]

my motor is blown tuned by you with a meth kit and all that stuff

[Fobio]

my motor is blown tuned by you with a meth kit and all that stuff

good...go with that...while a 400whp+ car that's well taken cared of is running fine.

this is us doing you a favour. and with that last comment, I feel I have zero need to help you any further...good luck.

[MPS]

sorry i dont get the point of this post
if you cant call me and talk i rly dont know what u want from me
anyways im off this forum
bye

good...go with that...while a 400whp+ car that's well taken cared of is running fine.

this is us doing you a favour. and with that last comment, I feel I have zero need to help you any further...good luck.

[Fobio]

sorry i dont get the point of this post
if you cant call me and talk i rly dont know what u want from me
anyways im off this forum
bye

This is your opportunity, as a senior member, to learn from somebody who had a tough time to start on the forum, kept it up and read enough to save himself. We, as a group are fairly certain why you pooched your motor. No, we're not gonna hold your hand...you can read, just like anyone else.

[SomeGuy]

Oh the drama...lol

[zzz3]

anyways im off this forum
bye

No more "TTT"?

[mikey32235]

rebuild list:

1. Complete motor gasket kit
2. recommend thermal intake gaskets and throttle body
3. COSMETIC head gasket
4. over bore pistons (wiseco, cpe etc.)
5. connecting rods (K1/Eagle/manley etc. stock wrist pin 22.5)
7. Cpe injector seals (might as well since your taking it out anyways)
8. 5.4L of break in oil 5w40 (500km only)
9. 5.4L of rotella t6 or 5w40 choice oil for after break in
10. get head rebuilt/re finished
11. bore and hone block, camshafts, crankshaft
12. have a ton of patience
13. two hands
14. a wife/gf to blow off steam
15. few cases of beer.
16. timing chain
17. oil pump
18. rear main seal
19. main, thrust, rod bearings

@MPS

that should be everything… if I'm missing something ill add it in.

[S.F.W.]

MPS will not be replying, he has been permanently banned.

[breakfasteatre]

the thermal intake gaskets are a waste of money. motoiq debunked that shit
cometic headgasket is not worth it over oem unless you need to get a thicker headgasket because you had to mill down the block or head. if it aint broke (oem), dont fix it
you can get the complete gasket set from rockauto, its considerably cheaper than oem, and i was happy with the stuff. Also comes with injector donuts and valve seals
for the rear main seal, you have to go OEM because it comes with a special plastic 'tool' that is paramount to installing it correctly

[mikey32235]

all the stuff i ordered from edge autosport, was given a pretty good discount. I'm happy

[breakfasteatre]

i paid 650 for all the bearings and gaskets from mazda and rockauto, edge has it listed for like 1400 or something stupid. I dont think you got 50% off

just an fyi

[mikey32235]

i paid 650 for all the bearings and gaskets from mazda and rockauto, edge has it listed for like 1400 or something stupid. I dont think you got 50% off

just an fyi

you got the oem gaskets i did as well, but i bought separately the cosmetic head gasket, the thermal gaskets, a new chain etc. also i didn't go with mazda bearings i went with mahle which was more expensive.

fyi

[Fobio]

I'm gonna step in for a moment to facilitate. There is obviously 2 schools to this, if not many more ways to skin a cat [no I don't run a restaurant...].

Many approach this from a let's get it fixed stand-point on a reasonable budget. There may be many reasons to this, not just a reality of life...and to those this discussion will be most useful and hopefully lead to this thread being stickied.

Second school is, well, since you're doing it anyway why not get "uprated" parts. Better this than stancin'...amirite?

At this point, I'd dare say most considering a rebuild will choose from both schools if possible to upgrade performance while restoring engine compression.

Of course, even when I upgraded, the original engine I was on had typical ringland issues...if I wasn't constantly dyno'ing, datalogging, tracking and I was just daily driving it only, then I wouldn't even notice. And I just bought an engine built by @BlueStreak. Like I said...many ways...

[breakfasteatre]

I would have never known there was anything wrong my motor if i hadnt of done a compression check "for fun"

Its crazy, when i pulled the piston out, there was a 4" long piece cracked off of the side, sitting in the cylinder bore. There was zero damage to the cylinder wall, not even one scratch, it was amazing.