Bottom line - NOBODY should encourage anybody to drive in the winter without snow tires.
Even brand new 3-season tires can not compare to used snow tires in these frigid conditions.
Bottom line - NOBODY should encourage anybody to drive in the winter without snow tires.
Even brand new 3-season tires can not compare to used snow tires in these frigid conditions.
I guess we are gonna have to agree to disagree.
When my girlfriend bought her Jeep brand new the first winter we took it to a big empty parking lot multiple times throughout the year. Once after the first major snowfall, and later when it had turned to ice. Threw it around in 2wd and 4wd so she could get used to its limits. No matter what we did, we could not get it to spin out. We could barely get it to even slide. It had all seasons on. It is now the 3rd winter on the tires she got when she bought them. And they still glue themselves to the road.
I've never been in an accident or spun out or ended up in a ditch due to loss of control during winter driving. And I've always driven front wheel drive sedans. For a while I was driving on balding tires. And still managed to safely commute to Toronto during the winter from north of the city up near Barrie without any issues.
And @McGuyver_3 must be nice that you have so much money you can just throw it around buying new tires whenever you want. I don't care what you see working in a shop. Saying that people shouldn't be driving if they can't afford to buy snow tires is a stupid and ignorant thing to say. You have no idea what people's situations are and many people need their cars to get to work.
I'm not encouraging people to drive without winters, the OP asked if they couldn't afford a whole set if they could just mount 2 on the front. I answered with if you can't afford a full set of winter tires just stick to your full set of all seasons because that is safer than driving with 2 winter tires on front and 2 all seasons on the back.
People have managed for years without winters long before they were even a thing and now people seem to think you can't live without them.
Like I said guess we will have to agree to disagree on this, because I believe driver knowledge of their vehicle and their skill level trumps just about anything else.
You take a shitty driver throw them in an SUV with winters and they will still manage to find themselves in a ditch. I've seen it time and time again and yet I trudge on along past all the morons in the ditch in my little Mazda 3 with bald all seasons.
People need to understand that regardless of what tires you have you still need to drive for the conditions, and if you start losing control the worst thing you can do is slam on the brakes which is how most people end up in the ditch.
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I can buy tires/fix my cars because I know my limits of my financial situation. And because if a problem shows up I fix it so it doesn't get worse. Not ignorant at all. People rely on their cars to get back and forth to work. They buy a car because it's JUST in the budget not including repairs or tires or brakes etc etc. The only time a car needs a safety is when they change ownership. Oil leaking on to the exhaust, chorded tires, blown shocks, worn out brakes. This is ignorant, you are putting everyone's life at risk around you and not just your own. You complain that tires are 1000$ for a complete set but you have an iPhone X. Thats ignorant. Put your priorities first. Just because a car looks good from the outside doesn't mean it's safe. How many cars have I seen with a fresh safety that I scratch my head and wonder how the car passed. Again, I see to much of this.
I really hope they make it mandatory for winters. Insurance companies are even giving discounts for winter tires.
1991 Nissan Pathfinder - trade in, 2005 Mazda 3 GX ty grey - Write off, 2010 Mazda 3 GT E sedan CWP- trade in, 2010 Speed 3 w/tech CWP - Up for sale (soon), 2007 Mazda 3 GS silver- motor swapped in to 2009 MS3 CWP that had blown engine, 2002 BMW 330ci silver- new winter ride, 2005 BMW M3- new toy
geobur (01-06-2018)
Ya having safety problems and an iPhone X is stupid I'll agree with you there. But someone with a perfectly safe vehicle with healthy all seasons on is not the same thing. That isn't their priority. Maybe putting food on the table is. I'm not defending all those other idiots. But if the car is safe otherwise I'm saying don't be so quick to judge.
My girlfriend was unemployed for about a year things were tight yet we managed to get all the regular maintenance done and any repairs or in the case of my old Mazda I didn't drive it until I had the money for the appropriate repairs. Winter tires were not a priority.
I am a student. And neither of us have brand new phones. Our phones are like 3 or 4 generations old. Yet our vehicles are as safe as the day we got them.
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OK I'll bite.
1) Everything your car does comes down to 4 contact patches of rubber, approximately the size of your hand on average. Look at your hand. 4 patches of rubber, one for each corner of the car. That's it. Forget FWD vs RWD vs AWD. Everything comes down to how those 4 small rubber patches are manipulated. We'll discuss drivetrains later. Keep this point in mind as your read further.
2) It follows then that you want to maximize the amount of grip these patches have. In temperatures below 7c all season tires harden like hockey pucks (and we all know how good those are on ice) while winter tires stay soft. They will outperform all seasons even on dry pavement in winter temperatures. It follows that winter tires are the best choice.
3) Winter tires will be better at evacuating water, snow and slush, maximizing grip when not on dry pavement. Therefore they are a better choice than all seasons.
4) The most important factors in driving have nothing to do with acceleration. In daily driving, you need to be able to stop and you need to be able to turn. Doesn't matter if you have AWD. AWD is useless if no tires have grip. It's an acceleration feature only (it does reduce front tire demand as well but acceleration is its primary bonus). AWD will not help you stop. Only your tires will. Therefore winters are the best choice.
5) Oversteer (your rear end whipping around) is much more difficult to control than understeer (front end slide). You want to minimize oversteer in daily driving. Therefore, if you have to only get 2 winter tires, they should only be mounted in the rear, regardless of drivetrain.
6) Now let's discuss cost. Yes they cost money. That spending is reduced in several ways:
- Wear to your winter tires spare your summer tires during that time frame, extending their life.
- Insurance discounts for using winter tires
- Winter tires are cheaper than almost any collision. Even if they only save you from 1 incident, you come out ahead.
- Winter tires are less likely to crack in cold temperatures, reducing the possibility of blowing out a tire
- Used tires can be purchased for less than half the cost of new
- Winter tires have an average life of 5 years. It's not a frequent cost.
- Time saved by not having to crawl in winter conditions, stress saved by being able to deal with winter conditions easier, and safety for yourself and your passengers (the most important thing of all).
Similar arguments can be used for all seasons vs summer tires in the warm months. There's no logical reason to use all seasons ever except for:
- Being so poor you can't afford to maintain your car. In which case you should probably look into alternative transportation. Not just for safety but for financial health.
- Your car using a particular size which makes winter tires unavailable.
- Ignorance
Do the right thing. Use 4 winter tires in the winter. 2 on the rear if you can only do 2.
Never stop zoom-zooming
That's a bold statement cars being safe as the day you bought them, how do you know that? Same bold statement I'm safe with winter tires. Define safe first and we can argue after. I couldn't take a picture of a car that had 2 winter tires at the rear, Camry . IF, for various reasons you just have 2 winter tires use them. And install them at the back, until you can get two more, install those at the Back and move the already used ones to the front. It's stupid to have two winter tires and not use them because are not a set of four, just plain stupid.
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What I see is people buying for the brand to say "I DRIVE THIS" and this is not the way to buy a car. Dial it back a notch, go down a grade and include some other features such as winter tires. I wanted to buy a focus RS, but I put the money towards a bigger investment. But even with the bigger investment, i didn't just buy the first thing I saw because I wanted it, like many people did and struggle to hold it or put food on the table. This goes back to knowing my limits of my financial situation. In which case allows me to buy winter tires. And I will stand by my statement that winter tires should be a top priority for every driver