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Thread: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

  1. #51
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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by timuhai View Post
    So i take it you found someone to do your rebuild? Sounds like it will be a fun car to drive, 12:1 would just be awesome. Does your 2.0 have the forged or cast crank? I thought I read before that the cast crank can handle quite a bit of power, but high RPM is where it has problems, Though this is with the 2.5L; not sure what the 2.0 has.

    I'm going to shoot xero limit an email sometime soon. Mostly just want to verify that I can drop those stage 1.5's without having to remove / plug VCT...not that it would keep me from doing it I suppose. You said yours came with shims and you left your buckets IIRC, yeah? I plan on doing it myself, but I haven't torn this engine apart much, unlike my old NB miata I no longer have.

    I know its no big number FI setup, but this 2.5L is a blast to drive as it is (IMO) being factory rated at almost 170 hp. I feel that with cams, i/h/e and a mild tune I could reliably be around 200HP crank. Not that I really care too much about the HP numbers, but I think it would be even more fun and help occasional lap times while being civil on the street.

    Anyway thanks for the info mini, hope your build goes well and look forward to seeing how it turns out!
    Hey ... not sure if 2.0L oem crank is cast or forged or rolled up chicken wire ...but it will get checked to see if it balanced and test what it can handle.
    Yes Gord Bush Performance will be doing the re build and flow the ports and engine balancing.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Well mini I might be going a similar route as you, but I havenít decided yet. My 3 is approaching 160,000 mostly highway (bought it with 50k) miles and Iím not sure how much life Iím going to get with 1.5 cams and a tune, but I really like this car a lot as well as NA builds so I think I may just swap cams, and maybe next year rebuild the internals. Or maybe this year all at one time... Rebore, pistons and rods, get the camshaft looked at or maybe replace it with a new oem shaft if I can find one. Water pump, radiator... refresh everything basically. I wouldnít be going for the maximum possible redline / power combo, but I think a reliable power and compression ratio increase could easily be had. Maybe a 7k redline . These are all just my random ideas so far, but perhaps I will order my cams this month and go from there. Hope your build continues to go well !

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    [QUOTE=timuhai;1362197]Well mini I might be going a similar route as you, but I havenít decided yet. My 3 is approaching 160,000 mostly highway (bought it with 50k) miles and Iím not sure how much life Iím going to get with 1.5 cams and a tune, but I really like this car a lot as well as NA builds so I think I may just swap cams, and maybe next year rebuild the internals. Or maybe this year all at one time... Rebore, pistons and rods, get the camshaft looked at or maybe replace it with a new oem shaft if I can find one. Water pump, radiator... refresh everything basically. I wouldnít be going for the maximum possible redline / power combo, but I think a reliable power and compression ratio increase could easily be had. Maybe a 7k redline . These are all just my random ideas so far, but perhaps I will order my cams this month and go from there. Hope your build continues to go well ![/QUOTE

    The 2.0L non sky already revs to 7,200 oem (maybe thats after my OV tune) .
    It all comes down to what makes you happy. How much money you got to spend and what are you looking for to do.
    I kept my paid off rust free 2012 and put money into it instead of new Mazda 3 lease payments at 320 monthly tax in (x4years = $15,000) plus insurance
    and you dont even own the car. I slowly upgraded parts as needed , replaced with upgraded parts.

    for example :
    Clutch started to let go so replaced with a exedy Stage 1 clutch (on sale at Rock auto 50% off) and race flywheel ( new on Kjiji for $100 ) I have the oem flywheel , its for sale.
    Put a hole in my muffler on winter drive to MTL , replaced it with cat back from Corksport (got it on a 9% off sale , stuff never on sale there)
    One of my shocks started to leak / rust decided to lower with Corksport springs and adjustable dampeners (mistake) .
    Needed to do more research what i really needed and went for is coilovers ( i wanted to be able to 4 corner balance the car).
    I Sold the lowering springs and oem springs too and corksport dampeners and recouped all cost and put it into coilovers.
    I was due for 4 rotors and pads so i went to bbk front and slotted oem size rears.
    I went to Enkei 17" RPF1 rims ... sold the 16" black mazda rims to off set cost.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Updating this thread to now include not only if you want upgrade your cams (message me and i can direct you t0 product options)
    but also to include info on upgrading the internals , valves springs , intake & exhaust porting, rod bearing (message me if you have a question)
    if you are considering going this route to add HP and keep her natural aspirated.

    The whole journey im having now is to re-build the MZR 2.0L ( engine rod bearing on piston #4 let go ) so as to maximize output but keep it Naturally Aspirated.
    Some may say why dont you just get the Mazda 3 AWD Turbo 250HP ... For me is cheaper to re-build engine , the 2012 body is rust free with many upgrades.
    In the end i should be at 240HP and i will weight 650+ lbs (possibly minus another 50 lbs ) less than the AWD Turbo.

    Gord Bush Performance is doing the rebuild .
    Lighter pistons & rods than OEM. OEM piston are Cast and rod look like a machined stainless steal ... not sure how much gain , but lighter internal spoon up faster & more balanced.
    Wiseco piston & rings 12.5:1 compression , OEM is 10:1 . Here Gord said i was looking at a 8% increase per 1 point compression increase. So 2.5x8 = 20% .
    Rods K1 forged which are lighter than oem and stronger too. Again ... lighter piston & connecting rod will make engine more efficient in HP delivery.
    Intake & exhaust porting . Gord is a master at this and says easily 10 extra HP but more important on increasing the over all flow making engine breath easier.
    This will also add more low end torque and help add more redline HP.
    Supertech valve springs. OEM are great if you keep it under the redline. Stronger springs with Titanium retainers (loosing a bit of weight here) will keep valves from floating.
    With stronger valve springs i can move the redline past 8500 maybe even 9000. This all depends on air intake.
    Crank shaft (luckily did not get damaged with engine rod bearing failing) will get polished and balanced. Smoother running engine and helps me get to 8500 rpm+
    This being being smoother and polished & shaved will increase engine efficiency ... hopefully add a few hp. (shaving ...hmm more lb lost)
    Supertech gasket kit replaced all seals gaskets , new timing chain lit, Water pump & pulley (this was about to also fail) , ACL race series rod bearing ,
    Bore will increase from OEM 87.5 to 88mm , maybe a 1-2 hp gain . Gord says ...stroger than oem this being your daily and some , easily 300K KMs.

    When my engine rod bearing failed car was on a dyno pull and had to stop ( my redline is 7200 & estimated WHP is 161 = aprox HP is 190-200 )
    I will be potentially adding :
    intake / exhaust porting 10hp
    Increased bore 2 hp
    lighter internals 2 hp
    higher compression 20% of 200 = 40hp ( I will be floored if it is this high )
    If increase rpm to 8500 or 9000 based my my dyn curve 8 - 10 hp
    Maybe pick up 2-3 HP with racing oil.

    Lets see what it actually pulls ( end of April - mid May i should it back )

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Late to this but curious if you went through with the new cams? I'm thinking about doing it myself on my 2.3 but dint know where to get cams that fit that aren't oem. I'm not too concerned with power because I'm completely stock with 160 hp. I do want some good exhaust tone to it though.

    Sent from my SM-A715W using Tapatalk

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by theblack23 View Post
    Late to this but curious if you went through with the new cams? I'm thinking about doing it myself on my 2.3 but dint know where to get cams that fit that aren't oem. I'm not too concerned with power because I'm completely stock with 160 hp. I do want some good exhaust tone to it though.

    Sent from my SM-A715W using Tapatalk
    In order to maximize (sound or HP) cams stage 1 or 2 or higher you do need to upgrade intake and exhaust and also get the ecu tuned.

    My cams came from Xerolimit and were their custom stage 1.5 (2 from other suppliers) https://www.xero-limit.com/mx5-miata...ooling-nc.html
    I do not see the stage 1.5 ... email Mike at Xero to find out . These cams fit 2/2.5/2.5 NA Engines . Also many MX5 part suppliers have Cams that fit.
    The MX5 NC uses the same engine as in the 2.0L in the mazda3 (non sky) the MZR 2.0L . As Xerolinit mentions with the Kelford cams , they fit 2.0L /2.3L 2.5L.
    The customs cam xerolimit was selling which i have installed we made by Brain Crower (Xerolimit specs) which OEM Mazda billiets.
    CAms can also be found at Fab9 Tuning another MX5 specialist. https://fab9tuning.com/brian-crower-...-mx5-2-0-2-5l/
    Although Fab 9 says these are for the MZR engine (2.0L /2.5) MZR engines range from 1.3L to 2.5L including the NA 2.3L. Double check with Fab9 anyway.
    As with xerolimit the cams are being grinded by Brian Crower and Fab 9 has Stage 2 , 3 , & 3+ .

    Some more Cam sources :
    https://dynotronicstuning.3dcartstor...CAMS_p_75.html
    https://esslingeracing.com/camshafts...-cams-vct-cams


    If exhaust sound is primary concern theyou should only look at cat back exhausts
    Corksport
    Racing Beat
    Ultimate
    Last edited by G ~ MINI; 05-02-2021 at 04:00 PM.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Update on rebuilding an engine during Covid :

    One word that best describes of all --> DELAYED

    The whole journey continues. Now my expected delivery will be / should be week of June 14. The reason for the delay , as Gord mentions ...
    parts that normally take a few days to receive now take months or are no longer available ...

    Gord Bush Performance rebuild .
    Changes ... cannot find Wiseco 12.5:1 pistons going with 10.1:1 Wiseco forged ( instead of Supetech ) Supertech composition uses more silicone and hence are considered
    more brittle in extreme internal engine conditions like Turbo charging high pressures or Forced Induction supercharging but ideal if only intend for Natural Aspiration or light boost
    but have been known to be susceptible to cracking under pressure /misfire from a improper tune. Supertech piston higher silicone composition also results in a piston that expands
    very little and require less clearances and is a overall tighter fit from cold. Wiseco forged piston as basically the opposite. They do require more clearance and expand cold to hot
    ( a little piston slap when cold and warming up ). Are about the same weight but overall composition but can take higher pressures and temps overall.

    K1 connecting Rods cannot be found so we are now going with Brian Crower ProH2K connecting rods. Like the K1 and Manley & Eagle, the metal is forged in China and machined/honed/balanced in USA.
    The other option was Carrillio connecting rods and these start at 1000 USD. I am not doing a SEMA build so that was a no. The extra cash i save i'll spend on track lapping days and Poutine.

    Another change ... Increasing intake valve +1mm (supertech valves) will increase Air
    Intake flow .
    Like mentioned Gord is a master at flow and says easily 20 extra HP by increasing the over all flow making engine breath easier.
    This will easily add more low end torque and help add more redline HP.
    With the stronger
    Supertech valve springs , a balanced crankshaft and the additional changes the internal can go past 9K and even 10K redline. Will it make power past 8000, got to get it on a dyno we will know. It will all depends on air intake flow and exhaust flow. As mentioned ..Bore will increase from OEM 87.5 to 88mm

    Reviewing this ... I will be potentially adding :
    intake / exhaust porting with increased +1mm intake valve 20hp
    Increased bore 1-2 hp
    lighter internals 2 hp maybe more (overall less load on the engine and more HP delivery available to the wheels)
    Higher compression not happening ... maybe supercharging it later with Grassroots Performance
    If increase rpm to 8500 or 9000 based my my dyn curve 8 - 10 hp ...
    Maybe pick up 2-3 HP with racing oil.

    Lets see ...

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    2nd Update on rebuilding an engine during Covid :

    Finally got the engine back in the car on July 13. Still have some minor issues.
    Car sat for 5months ..rotors rust new pads rubbing ...should go away omce i bed new pads.
    New belt & tensioner & waterpump making a womp womp noise at low idle. Checking it out once break in complete.
    Put in a AWR passenger engine mount and holy mother its vibrating ...should tone down after 500kms.
    Battery cant hold a charge ... so thank god i picked up a portable mirco lithium jump starter. With no battery using this to get car started.
    This jump starter is even better than the one i got : https://ultraraymotorsports.com/prod...0-micro-start/
    Also New oil going is Millers Oil also from UltraRay Motorsport... Reach out to Jon. Here is special pricing for TM3
    Miller Oils Triple ester synthetic oil is available at Ultraray Motorsport
    Email Jon to order ----> jdunski@ultraray.com
    Pricing for TM3 : (free shipping within GTA & surrounding towns, check with Jon)
    5L jugs 0w20, 0w30 - $105
    5L jugs 5w40, 10w50, 10w60 - $99

    https://ultraraymotorsports.com/product-category/brand/miller-oils/motorsport/

    Wiseco pistons on a cold start sound like a diesel ..slap slap clang ...once warmed up
    the engine does sound different at idle and light revving because intake valves were increased 1mm.
    Once the break in over and on new oil i'll be doing a dyno to see what the output is for this NA engine.

    Tonight i'll be out near Pullman Crt and Finchdene square (quiet commercial area at night) to do some pulls and bedding the new pads.

    Anyone know a better location in Scars?


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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Sheeeeeeeit isnt covid blowing by so fast and now its 2022

    Just as i was about feel good about upcoming 2022 and that the engine is ready / with a good break in during 2021.
    I Take the 3 to Cayuga in Nov 2021 on the new RE71-R tires and my 3rd gear in my 5spd blocks (synchro need replacing at 270k kms)
    (btw ... i dropped 3.5 sec on a lap with these tires and it was about 12C)
    She is still drivable (just dont take her to 3rd she wont let you in). Used the start of winter to do my
    research to find the best solution for the 5spd. Rebuild or swap in a JDM 5spd (supposedly under 50K kms)
    for about $5-600 and Jimmy (at street performance) said about $600 to drop and put back the transmission.
    $1200 for an almost new transmission (from japan where driver . how it was driven is unknown) is still not bad.

    Forget going new. I did not even inquire as for sure is looking at (im sure its $4K +++) alot. So with no rush to get
    this rebuilt i started to look to see it it can be rebuilt and upgraded like with carbon fiber or Chromoly metal
    reinforced synchro's or upgraded bearing. Looking at differential and if there was a LSD available for this 5 spd (G35M-R)
    Short answer ... No .
    If you have the 6spd FWD or RWD MX5 ... yes there is upgraded parts and an LSD and increasing your Diff gearing.
    (dont remember which ...if you need to know message me and i'll dig up my notes_)

    After doing some more digging i was able to source all OEM synchros and internal bearings from a parts supplier in usa
    discounted our the holiday black friday saving for $350 usd (dealer pricing was double to triple per part working out o about $1K CDN)
    Then my eyes lit up after i find this https://www.tractionconcepts.com/ $349 usd for a kit to convert any diff to LSD.
    (they do custom and they ask a whole bunch of measurements when diff is disassembled)
    After i mention this my mech (btw its Gilman Sport in Scarborough ) he says order it and lets do it ..easy enough (I became a test car for him)
    The diff will require some lathe on the gears to create the right gap to maximize the Diff . So essentially i will have a LSD
    but i would not say equivalent to the OEM LSD in the Speed3. Aftermarket new LSD are over $1500 usd

    So in the end i will have a rebuilt (all new internals and that was about 1 hr of labour to remove and repack the tranny ) 5spd with an LSD performance.
    Dropping and install with a used was going to run about $1300+ tax in. Im figuring $2500 with parts labour - new and improved.

    I will using Millers Oil race transmission fluid in it - https://ultraraymotorsports.com/prod...nsmission-oil/
    Its GL 4 and GL5 approved and no it will not harm brass synchros ( i asked ) . Im used this rather than redline cuz it has better
    lube and temp control at higher temps... If you recall ..my engine was rebuilt to spin to 9K rpm.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Truely amazing, what you've done with that car.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flunk View Post
    Truely amazing, what you've done with that car.
    Thanks @Flunk !
    Its a nice project to turn into a street / track car and cheaper that a Porsche Cayman GT
    Not bad for a 10 year old car now ...but was my thought even in 2018 when i started improving as parts needed replacing.
    To build / modify something and make it different and unique and its a sedan ... Kinda in the same vein as Sung Kang project 240Z
    and Magnus Walker 993(1964) Porsche 911 building a Urban Outlaw car. Here have alook at what i mean in this video:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jp_HOVJP1Mw

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Yes time has sure flown by. I agree with @Flunk you've done a lot to your vehicle glad things are working out despite delays and what not.

    I'm probably just going to replace front sway end links with the MOOG's so they're matching the rears and that's about it for my 3 haha. Going to drop her off for full detailing and single stage paint correction. Will probably ask them to ceramic coat the face of my OEM wheels now that they're powder coated Satin Black and get them to restore my headlights as they're starting to fade.

    She's been good to me for the 1 year (and few months) I've owned her. Just routine maintenance. Put on almost 30k last year alone. Now she'll sit in the garage since I got a company vehicle now. Will be sure to take her out twice a week for some pulls on the highway so nothing seizes and the battery stays in good shape. Glad I bought my Mazda they really are great cars

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Its on my car bucket list too to do something with the headlights fade. Somax has a restore kit

    https://www.sonaxcanada.com/product/...storation-kit/

    I need to also add side skirts since the GX did not come with it to complete the look.

    My hood has so many paint chips rusting (about the only place i have rust on the car)
    it looks like freckles ... I may just hand sand those and OEM touch up them.
    Im not building a SEMA car ...more of a fuctional Street/track thing
    It does nt need to be perfect...

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Hey // letting you know LSD kit upgrade was done when rebuilding the internals (All synchros, seals and bearing and 3rd gear)
    of the 5 spd (see below for links) and on Miller OIl gear oil.

    Also was able to re-flash ecu and increase redline to 8500 (I did test and spin in to 8400 about.. speedo ends at 8K)
    I will have log some data and post.

    Next step is to move it 9500 redline after i deal with an exhaust leak (CEL says it post cat lean fuel trim)
    So its too much air to fuel (Air added post combustion from exhaust or vacuum hoses or Low fuel pressure)
    She pulls easily to redline so im leaning on extra air . I did find ,y high flow cat from Yonaka is disintegrating
    (sounds like sand ) and has holes. Replaced it with magnaflow high flow 200 cell (exhaust note has changed a bit)

    Hopefully by the time i sort this out Matt from OVT will introduce new VF Tuner for Mazda's
    and get some added HP from my set up. It may require upgrading fuel pump and higher flowing injectors too.
    All in the name of more HP and that 200WHP on a NA engine.





    Quote Originally Posted by G ~ MINI View Post
    Sheeeeeeeit isnt covid blowing by so fast and now its 2022

    Just as i was about feel good about upcoming 2022 and that the engine is ready / with a good break in during 2021.
    I Take the 3 to Cayuga in Nov 2021 on the new RE71-R tires and my 3rd gear in my 5spd blocks (synchro need replacing at 270k kms)
    (btw ... i dropped 3.5 sec on a lap with these tires and it was about 12C)
    She is still drivable (just dont take her to 3rd she wont let you in). Used the start of winter to do my
    research to find the best solution for the 5spd. Rebuild or swap in a JDM 5spd (supposedly under 50K kms)
    for about $5-600 and Jimmy (at street performance) said about $600 to drop and put back the transmission.
    $1200 for an almost new transmission (from japan where driver . how it was driven is unknown) is still not bad.

    Forget going new. I did not even inquire as for sure is looking at (im sure its $4K +++) alot. So with no rush to get
    this rebuilt i started to look to see it it can be rebuilt and upgraded like with carbon fiber or Chromoly metal
    reinforced synchro's or upgraded bearing. Looking at differential and if there was a LSD available for this 5 spd (G35M-R)
    Short answer ... No .
    If you have the 6spd FWD or RWD MX5 ... yes there is upgraded parts and an LSD and increasing your Diff gearing.
    (dont remember which ...if you need to know message me and i'll dig up my notes_)

    After doing some more digging i was able to source all OEM synchros and internal bearings from a parts supplier in usa
    discounted our the holiday black friday saving for $350 usd (dealer pricing was double to triple per part working out o about $1K CDN)
    Then my eyes lit up after i find this https://www.tractionconcepts.com/ $349 usd for a kit to convert any diff to LSD.
    (they do custom and they ask a whole bunch of measurements when diff is disassembled)
    After i mention this my mech (btw its Gilman Sport in Scarborough ) he says order it and lets do it ..easy enough (I became a test car for him)
    The diff will require some lathe on the gears to create the right gap to maximize the Diff . So essentially i will have a LSD
    but i would not say equivalent to the OEM LSD in the Speed3. Aftermarket new LSD are over $1500 usd

    So in the end i will have a rebuilt (all new internals and that was about 1 hr of labour to remove and repack the tranny ) 5spd with an LSD performance.
    Dropping and install with a used was going to run about $1300+ tax in. Im figuring $2500 with parts labour - new and improved.

    I will using Millers Oil race transmission fluid in it - https://ultraraymotorsports.com/prod...nsmission-oil/
    Its GL 4 and GL5 approved and no it will not harm brass synchros ( i asked ) . Im used this rather than redline cuz it has better
    lube and temp control at higher temps... If you recall ..my engine was rebuilt to spin to 9K rpm.

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    Jr Member G ~ MINI's Avatar
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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
    is there another throttle body that may fit from a bigger mazda engine? v6 mazda6 throttle body?
    I would say to check with Grams Throttle
    They do make the 70mm for the Mx5 https://www.xero-limit.com/grams-70m...2006-2015.html
    But i think the one on the V6 is a 70mm ?
    Either way if you find a bigger that will fit will it be able to work with your MAF and ECU

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    BTw ... Its official (no data collected yet ), i re-flashed my mazdaedit to spin to 8500
    Track tested it Monday at Mosport DDT track with the advanced group (its a pass allowed anywhere on the track
    and pretty much every car is 350+ HP ) for 4 hours + . I was able to drop a second for my best time so far with the increased redline.
    I will have to collect some rpm data.
    Next test will be 9000

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