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Thread: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Looking forward to an update

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff7670 View Post
    Looking forward to an update
    Probably swap cams in April (on summer rubber by then)
    and dial suspension and tune back to track setting before
    logging new data with stage 1.5 Cams...then retune ECU
    and then do a dyno.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Installed Cams Yesterday... cost a bit more than expected, Install was 7 hrs
    but included replacing a few seals and other tweaks. Extra Time was to double check clearances and
    calibration / timing chain and so that buckets & new shims are spot on. No buckets replaced.. wear and tear
    at 220K was not noticeable only shims added. 500-1000Km break in (at grandma speeds under 3K for max
    effective break in).

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    How does the exhaust sound? What is your torque curve going to look like?

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff7670 View Post
    How does the exhaust sound? What is your torque curve going to look like?
    It will go on a dynojet once i build a cold airbox with velocity stack intake and once I have it tuned. Right now i am on Factory ecu settings.
    Must have stalled about 30 times already...idle has to be moved up to 950-1K. As cams are broken in becoming easier to idle at 650-700.
    Alot has changed to the hp/torque curve. Launch/Clutch engagement is above 1500-1800... below that car bucks. Having a lighter flywheel helps below 2K.
    3000 to redline opens up delivers it all. It revs up faster. The sound is awesome. The Cams have changed the exhaust note. Its actually clearer and more distinctive.
    I dont think it sounds like anything already out there. I'll record something this week and post here. But once new tune is installed i bet it will change a bit a gain...
    I would love to hear the MSDS Headers on the Borla ..

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Update ... Cams & winter project (2012 Mazda 3 Sedan 2.0L)
    After installing http://www.xero-limit.com/xl-mzr-cams.html (yup it says for MX5 but it fits all MZR engines 2.0/2.3/2.5L) in April and tracking the car many times ...yes they work very well. Ride height lowered in July (corkSport lowering spring found on kijiji... a sweet find in muskoka $180) RacingBees another source for great priced mazda 3 parts (they sell Megan Racing but not Megan from same factory that makes Megan Racing springs& other stuff ..spoilers/lights https://racingbees.com/search?page=4&q=mazda).
    Winter project 2019 : build and install air box with velocity stack while also using / incorporating oem air intake plus intake through driver side fog light panel. (Mine is a GX no fog lights).
    Also want to add this https://gramsperformance.com/inducti...9-10-0070.html hopefully find in on sale black friday or xmas sale... Kijiji probably not.
    Once all installed i will Dyno in April 2020 ... no extra tune require. Whatever tune i have now (according to OV tuning tune will adjust to increase in air intake flow)
    On my way to 200WHP (xerolimit estimates with my set up im already presently between 185-195... without air box and Grams throttle body)
    Last edited by G ~ MINI; 11-06-2019 at 03:24 PM.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    That's awesome, probably is a quick ride.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Any chance you want to go to cayuga next year? Would be cool to see how this compares to my MS6.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Hey its not a Speed 3 ...but i like the how she shifts and pulls thru the Rev Line and sounds.
    Cam supplier Xerolimit says it can rev past 8000 (but need to upgrade to stiffer valve springs).

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by pwdunmore View Post
    Any chance you want to go to cayuga next year? Would be cool to see how this compares to my MS6.
    I did a couple of advanced driver training in 2019. 2 times on the CTMP Mosport track ( i was the slowest car on the straight with Guys driving 400-500 hp cars V8 camaro , several M2 & M2 Comp, ) with BMW trillium club. This track is intense with all its blind turns and elevation drops and you absolutely need HP on the Andretti straight. I could only get up to 180 before turn 8. Took a ride in my instructor car (GT3 RS 505 hp and reduced weight its a rocket) and it was friggen insane and he brought his up to 220 before turn 8.
    With Hanson advanced driving on the DDT Track next door to Mosport (its bridge stone race academy training/teaching track. This track is very hard on the brakes. Pretty much at all turns are hard 90 degrees and not as fast mosport but perfect to show the limits of your car at lower speeds.

    CAYUGA : sure I'll go back but would rather do Shannonville or Calabogie https://www.calabogiemotorsports.com/
    I did Cayuga in October on a cool day and found the track slippery and bumpy ( i was on Hankook RS-4 tires). Their were few of cars that went into the grass and spun out that day.
    I would like to go back on a hot day.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by G ~ MINI View Post
    I did a couple of advanced driver training in 2019. 2 times on the CTMP Mosport track ( i was the slowest car on the straight with Guys driving 400-500 hp cars V8 camaro , several M2 & M2 Comp, ) with BMW trillium club. This track is intense with all its blind turns and elevation drops and you absolutely need HP on the Andretti straight. I could only get up to 180 before turn 8. Took a ride in my instructor car (GT3 RS 505 hp and reduced weight its a rocket) and it was friggen insane and he brought his up to 220 before turn 8.
    With Hanson advanced driving on the DDT Track next door to Mosport (its bridge stone race academy training/teaching track. This track is very hard on the brakes. Pretty much at all turns are hard 90 degrees and not as fast mosport but perfect to show the limits of your car at lower speeds.

    CAYUGA : sure I'll go back but would rather do Shannonville or Calabogie https://www.calabogiemotorsports.com/
    I did Cayuga in October on a cool day and found the track slippery and bumpy ( i was on Hankook RS-4 tires). Their were few of cars that went into the grass and spun out that day.
    I would like to go back on a hot day.
    I never did get a chance to take my old Mazda3 to Mosport GP back in the day so never did get a lap time for it. The Mazda3 makes a great momentum car for GP and cornering speeds should surprise some of the higher HP cars.

    Were you able to get any lap times at GP (or DDT) for your setup?

    the GT3 RS should hit 240 km/h before having to brake for 8...it's the getting down to ~160 km/h range that is arse puckering.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    No unfortunately no track time. I only started using a track app in OCT at Cayuga. I need to do that 2020 (in the hot months on the RS4) at all 3 tracks. Im still in the process of adding two more small mods and retune. Winter Project...Building a that air box with outside intake and adding Grams Throttle body swap (adding 35% more air intake & possible 4-6Hp gain no tune ..if it fits on the front wheel drive... fits on the 2.0L MX5 RWD) .

    Correct on the 240 km/h before turn 8...Instructor knew he can do more... he actually did tell me he had it lowered 1.5" front / 1" rear from OEM (which is set up to race from the factory) creating more downforce.
    That car had so much grip and passing at speed off line in turn 2,3 & 4 ... i need to get one ...lol

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by G ~ MINI View Post
    Update ... Cams & winter project (2012 Mazda 3 Sedan 2.0L)
    After installing http://www.xero-limit.com/xl-mzr-cams.html (yup it says for MX5 but it fits all MZR engines 2.0/2.3/2.5L) in April and tracking the car many times ...yes they work very well. Ride height lowered in July (corkSport lowering spring found on kijiji... a sweet find in muskoka $180) RacingBees another source for great priced mazda 3 parts (they sell Megan Racing but not Megan from same factory that makes Megan Racing springs& other stuff ..spoilers/lights https://racingbees.com/search?page=4&q=mazda).
    Winter project 2019 : build and install air box with velocity stack while also using / incorporating oem air intake plus intake through driver side fog light panel. (Mine is a GX no fog lights).
    Also want to add this https://gramsperformance.com/inducti...9-10-0070.html hopefully find in on sale black friday or xmas sale... Kijiji probably not.
    Once all installed i will Dyno in April 2020 ... no extra tune require. Whatever tune i have now (according to OV tuning tune will adjust to increase in air intake flow)
    On my way to 200WHP (xerolimit estimates with my set up im already presently between 185-195... without air box and Grams throttle body)

    Update : Grams Performance throttle body (for MX5 ) will not fit Mazda 3.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    A couple of great boxing day / black friday deals ...
    Im going to add new ignition coils and try the NGK Ruthenium HX
    https://ngksparkplugs.com/en/product...um-spark-plugs

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    is there another throttle body that may fit from a bigger mazda engine? v6 mazda6 throttle body?

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    [QUOTE=Frank the Tank;1361125]is there another throttle body that may fit from a bigger mazda engine? v6 mazda6 throttle body?[/QUOTE

    Issue is if it uses same attaching position/bolts for the space / location provided on the MZr 2.0L ...

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    with modifications or a swap done to the intake manifold, it could be done. i'll leave it at that. i dont want your thread to go in a different direction

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frank the Tank View Post
    with modifications or a swap done to the intake manifold, it could be done. i'll leave it at that. i dont want your thread to go in a different direction
    With the Camshafts i have installed from xero limit or Camshafts available from kelford ...
    i would not bother with increasing/swapping out oem throttle with slightly larger diameter throttle body.
    But ...i would go with this individual throttle body for the 2.0L non sky ( should fit the NA 2.3 & 2.5 RWD engine)...
    Dont know if there is room to fit it on the FWD 2.0L :
    https://bbrgti.com/products/bbr-mx-5...31925266972774
    For the cost of these throttle body i put the funds toward a Kraftwerk supercharger .

    Here is how it sounds on the MX5 NC 2.0L : https://youtu.be/jStyT8BRg2E
    Last edited by G ~ MINI; 07-28-2020 at 01:04 PM.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by pwdunmore View Post
    Any chance you want to go to cayuga next year? Would be cool to see how this compares to my MS6.
    Hey let plan something for 2021 for sure.
    Maybe even make a TM3 meet.

    I didnt do much cayuga in 2019 .
    I actually did several cayuga track days in 2020 ... my best was 1:32.15 on a 14C track temp.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by MajesticBlueNTO View Post
    I never did get a chance to take my old Mazda3 to Mosport GP back in the day so never did get a lap time for it. The Mazda3 makes a great momentum car for GP and cornering speeds should surprise some of the higher HP cars.

    Were you able to get any lap times at GP (or DDT) for your setup?

    the GT3 RS should hit 240 km/h before having to brake for 8...it's the getting down to ~160 km/h range that is arse puckering.
    I did record some cayuga lap times in 2020 ... 1:32.15 on a 14C track temp.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Update :

    Had some really nice track days and autocrosses in 2020 and decided to dyno in October 2020 just to see where i was at with 2.0L
    and as we were bringing the 2.0L to redline we had to stop at 6000 (160 whp) ... rod bearing issue. Dynojet guy estimates 180+ at redline.
    Not bad for NA engine.

    So .... engine rebuild time . I expected this and this a no brainer and knew I would eventually need a new engine. It lasted 268K with alot track and AutoX.
    Cost to re build is way cheaper than going for new car or even a speed3 at this stage. Its will be like starting at zero but with a stronger engine... ToBecontinued

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Hey g~mini,.did you ever wind up rebuilding your 2.0? Interestingly I find hardly any mazda3/6 info or builds regarding swapping cams. Lots of people claiming in can't be done or it's too expensive from older posts, meanwhile people swap the 2.5 into miatas, fords all the time.

    I'm really considering getting a set of those cams for my 2.5L. Ive got a 2011 non pzev, so if I understand correctly I have an ideal intake manifold minus the vtcs valves. Still trying to figure out if the same kit you have will swap right into my mzr 2.5 , but if they do I think I'm gonna drop a set in, as long as I can find someone to help me tune the thing... Cheers

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by timuhai View Post
    Hey g~mini,.did you ever wind up rebuilding your 2.0? Interestingly I find hardly any mazda3/6 info or builds regarding swapping cams. Lots of people claiming in can't be done or it's too expensive from older posts, meanwhile people swap the 2.5 into miatas, fords all the time.

    I'm really considering getting a set of those cams for my 2.5L. Ive got a 2011 non pzev, so if I understand correctly I have an ideal intake manifold minus the vtcs valves. Still trying to figure out if the same kit you have will swap right into my mzr 2.5 , but if they do I think I'm gonna drop a set in, as long as I can find someone to help me tune the thing... Cheers
    Hey ya... i am actually having my 2.0L rebuilt. ConnectingRod bearing let go (at 268K kms) during a dyno. Had to stop at 6000 rpm (160whp) (estimated 175-180 at 7200 redline)
    For me, it cheaper to rebuild than to buy the same performance i have invested in the 2012. So the plan is increase compression to 12:1 (i can still supercharge it later +80whp ) with
    stronger wiseco piston/rings (larger bore 87.5 to 88) and K1 Rod and ACL bearings. Lighter internals = less hp loss and faster hp to the road. Increased bore and compression
    will add up to 8% HP. Balance the crank shaft & Increase valve springs goal to rev to 9,000 . Plus i am also having the head intake and port flow increased (up 5- 10%hp gain here).
    Not sure how much more hp is gained going to 9000. If i track the dyno curve on the pre re-build set up its about 6-9whp at 8000K. So based on 10:1/ 160whp add compression increase
    8% (12 whp). But now porting increase 5-10% will be on the new 12:1 (estimate 172whp at 6000k) 10% is + 17whp = 189whp at 6000K rpm. Its hard to estimate until the flow is
    checked on the porting. This can add more HP or just make the engine more responsive. On this set up (without going supercharger or turbo (better suited for the 2.5L) ..
    The only way to make more HP is to put more fuel in the 12:1 compression and to increase injector from oem 265cc/min (in the 2.0L) to 310+cc/min.
    The internals will be set up to handle 400HP. Anyways... In the end i get a stronger new engine to play with.


    Xero Limit is where i got my custom cams from : https://www.xero-limit.com/xl-mzr-cams.html
    Mike who tunes (ecutek and Haltech, knows mazdaedit but doesnt have the platform) all the (non sky) MZR 2.0L for MX5 and swaps in 2.5L and also supercharges
    (with Kraftwerk supercharge kits) is very approachable and super knowledgeable. If you can hold on they sometimes have a sale on certain mods.
    Email Mike, he may offer 10% off first time buys , not sure if he still does that though).

    Fab9 Tuning is another good site to source ideas and internals for the MZR 2.0L / 2.5L (non sky). They are MX5 MZR specialist.
    https://fab9tuning.com/nc-miata-mx-5-2006-2015/

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by G ~ MINI View Post
    Hey ya... i am actually having my 2.0L rebuilt. ConnectingRod bearing let go (at 268K kms) during a dyno. Had to stop at 6000 rpm (160whp) (estimated 175-180 at 7200 redline)
    For me, it cheaper to rebuild than to buy the same performance i have invested in the 2012. So the plan is increase compression to 12:1 (i can still supercharge it later +80whp ) with
    stronger wiseco piston/rings (larger bore 87.5 to 88) and K1 Rod and ACL bearings. Lighter internals = less hp loss and faster hp to the road. Increased bore and compression
    will add up to 8% HP. Balance the crank shaft & Increase valve springs goal to rev to 9,000 . Plus i am also having the head intake and port flow increased (up 5- 10%hp gain here).
    Not sure how much more hp is gained going to 9000. If i track the dyno curve on the pre re-build set up its about 6-9whp at 8000K. So based on 10:1/ 160whp add compression increase
    8% (12 whp). But now porting increase 5-10% will be on the new 12:1 (estimate 172whp at 6000k) 10% is + 17whp = 189whp at 6000K rpm. Its hard to estimate until the flow is
    checked on the porting. This can add more HP or just make the engine more responsive. On this set up (without going supercharger or turbo (better suited for the 2.5L) ..
    The only way to make more HP is to put more fuel in the 12:1 compression and to increase injector from oem 265cc/min (in the 2.0L) to 310+cc/min.
    The internals will be set up to handle 400HP. Anyways... In the end i get a stronger new engine to play with.


    Xero Limit is where i got my custom cams from : https://www.xero-limit.com/xl-mzr-cams.html
    Mike who tunes (ecutek and Haltech, knows mazdaedit but doesnt have the platform) all the (non sky) MZR 2.0L for MX5 and swaps in 2.5L and also supercharges
    (with Kraftwerk supercharge kits) is very approachable and super knowledgeable. If you can hold on they sometimes have a sale on certain mods.
    Email Mike, he may offer 10% off first time buys , not sure if he still does that though).

    Fab9 Tuning is another good site to source ideas and internals for the MZR 2.0L / 2.5L (non sky). They are MX5 MZR specialist.
    https://fab9tuning.com/nc-miata-mx-5-2006-2015/

    Quote Originally Posted by G ~ MINI View Post
    Hey ya... i am actually having my 2.0L rebuilt. ConnectingRod bearing let go (at 268K kms) during a dyno. Had to stop at 6000 rpm (160whp) (estimated 175-180 at 7200 redline)
    For me, it cheaper to rebuild than to buy the same performance i have invested in the 2012. So the plan is increase compression to 12:1 (i can still supercharge it later +80whp ) with
    stronger wiseco piston/rings (larger bore 87.5 to 88) and K1 Rod and ACL bearings. Lighter internals = less hp loss and faster hp to the road. Increased bore and compression
    will add up to 8% HP. Balance the crank shaft & Increase valve springs goal to rev to 9,000 . Plus i am also having the head intake and port flow increased (up 5- 10%hp gain here).
    Not sure how much more hp is gained going to 9000. If i track the dyno curve on the pre re-build set up its about 6-9whp at 8000K. So based on 10:1/ 160whp add compression increase
    8% (12 whp). But now porting increase 5-10% will be on the new 12:1 (estimate 172whp at 6000k) 10% is + 17whp = 189whp at 6000K rpm. Its hard to estimate until the flow is
    checked on the porting. This can add more HP or just make the engine more responsive. On this set up (without going supercharger or turbo (better suited for the 2.5L) ..
    The only way to make more HP is to put more fuel in the 12:1 compression and to increase injector from oem 265cc/min (in the 2.0L) to 310+cc/min.
    The internals will be set up to handle 400HP. Anyways... In the end i get a stronger new engine to play with.


    Xero Limit is where i got my custom cams from : https://www.xero-limit.com/xl-mzr-cams.html
    Mike who tunes (ecutek and Haltech, knows mazdaedit but doesnt have the platform) all the (non sky) MZR 2.0L for MX5 and swaps in 2.5L and also supercharges
    (with Kraftwerk supercharge kits) is very approachable and super knowledgeable. If you can hold on they sometimes have a sale on certain mods.
    Email Mike, he may offer 10% off first time buys , not sure if he still does that though).

    Fab9 Tuning is another good site to source ideas and internals for the MZR 2.0L / 2.5L (non sky). They are MX5 MZR specialist.
    https://fab9tuning.com/nc-miata-mx-5-2006-2015/

    So i take it you found someone to do your rebuild? Sounds like it will be a fun car to drive, 12:1 would just be awesome. Does your 2.0 have the forged or cast crank? I thought I read before that the cast crank can handle quite a bit of power, but high RPM is where it has problems, Though this is with the 2.5L; not sure what the 2.0 has.

    I'm going to shoot xero limit an email sometime soon. Mostly just want to verify that I can drop those stage 1.5's without having to remove / plug VCT...not that it would keep me from doing it I suppose. You said yours came with shims and you left your buckets IIRC, yeah? I plan on doing it myself, but I haven't torn this engine apart much, unlike my old NB miata I no longer have.

    I know its no big number FI setup, but this 2.5L is a blast to drive as it is (IMO) being factory rated at almost 170 hp. I feel that with cams, i/h/e and a mild tune I could reliably be around 200HP crank. Not that I really care too much about the HP numbers, but I think it would be even more fun and help occasional lap times while being civil on the street.

    Anyway thanks for the info mini, hope your build goes well and look forward to seeing how it turns out!

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Apologies for the double quote! lol

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