Street-Racing Law Ruled Unconstitutional, OPP Will Continue To Lay Charges

[MPS]

or hefty fines
naa i kid

*points to previous message where states people would still probably ignore it anyways*

But very true...shiny things with a jingle would attract some people

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

Fixed the typo's for you...and I'm 'all in' for multiple Ro-Sham-Bo's of Premier Petersen and that of all 's, David Miller. Where do I sign-up?

I've read a blog that discussed the judge's reasons behind his ruling. For the record the judge is NOT saying the law itself is unconstitutional. Just one aspect of it. That aspect is the section that deems it as "racing" or "stunt" driving if you're caught doing 50 over the limit.

*Puts on fuzzy lawyers cap with feather BRA*

Breaking a traffic law is know as "Moral Blamelessness." You know that you are doing something wrong but your intent is not criminal in behavior. You don't leave your house in the morning with the the premeditated thought of breaking the law. It happens in the course of your day to day travel in a car. Breaking a criminal law requires to form an intent to do something illegal. By forming an intent you therefore have the basis of a criminal court case. In other words the Crown must prove your intent and you must defend it. This is important in law.

What the judge said is this. The "Speed Racing" law elevates this form of speeding from a Traffic Violation to a Criminal Act. By elevating it to a criminal act the defendants cannot provide an adequate defense because "intent" is not in the speed racing law. The law simply states if you go over by 50 you are racing. Because this law ignores intent you cannot defend yourself. Because the law does not allow you to defend yourself the law is therefor unconstitutional.

It's a pretty interesting read. What I think the judge wants is that if this law elevates this type of speeding to a crime then the officers must provide more than a "speed" reading to lay charges. They have to investigate and prove intent just like any other crimes.

*Takes off fuzzy cap but keeps BRA because it matches his eyes*

[MPS]

/\/\/\/\ lol

[Mafty]

Well it's bs in the sense that everyone should be given a right to a trial. Ever hear of innocent untill proven guilty?? What gives a cop on the side of a highway to act a judge and jury? Google Mahoney Brauer. That OPP cop that was making false accusations against speeders going over 50. I'm just playing devils advocate here. What if it happened to you? 7 day suspension, your car gets impounded etc. I had a couple of friends that were booked by this guy and who knows how many others are doing it?

lawl at the "innocent until proven guilty," its not a criminal charge. Its under the HTA which, unless the cop is pursuing the charges (at which point you will attend court and then the innocent until proven guilty applies), but otherwise its treated like anything else in the HTA and your given the ticket on the side of the road.

[5_Alive]

lawl at the "innocent until proven guilty," its not a criminal charge. Its under the HTA which, unless the cop is pursuing the charges (at which point you will attend court and then the innocent until proven guilty applies), but otherwise its treated like anything else in the HTA and your given the ticket on the side of the road.

Hence why its unconstitutional. Its like this law is a double-standard. The officer has the ability to take your personal asset away from you and charge you with an offence and leave you be while applying a set fine, whatever he/she deems fit. This isn't allowed in theory. A Police Officer doesn't have any right to just "take away" anything from you.

A set fine for 20km/h over the speed limit is $110.00. The fine for "stunt driving" can range at the officers discretion.

God this law makes me want to f'ing swear and punch babies..

[stas]

ok, haven't read most of this thread yet but, that SaunderCOCK guy is an idiot, like Fantino, and McGuinty. Won't go into details but i expect reasonable research that would suggest a lower speed limit would be helpful to save lives. Let's start with: How many people are killed at speeds of 40km/h, 50, 60, etc. Then look at how many are killed due to someone speeding. How many are killed due to idiot drivers? Deaths caused by driver with a vehicle that is running on 10+ old tires in winter!! And the list goes on. We still haven't received real data that can scientifically support the Street Racing law. Wish Mel Lastman was running this province, he was a dirty mayor but much better then anyone thats running this province now.
Also how about getting rid of cars with wholes in the floor, or making winter tires manditory? They have the data to prove winter tires reduce the risk accidnets, all other countries have this law and data to back it up.
Last but not least, aren't cops supposed to turn on their lights everytime they break the law (running a red, speeding in a school zone, blocking the driveway to get a morning s**t bucket of coffee and treats)?

ALL IN ALL THE MEDIA IS DOING A GREAT THING FOR THESE POLITICIANS AS IT GETS YOUR MIND OFF THE THINGS THEY CAN'T OR DON'T WANT TO FIX!!!!!

[DruidB]

I just dont understand why this law is so severe... 50km/h = 31mph ... Impound your car and 10k fine for 31mph over.... This has to be one of the most severe speeding fines across north america

[Mafty]

Hence why its unconstitutional. Its like this law is a double-standard. The officer has the ability to take your personal asset away from you and charge you with an offence and leave you be while applying a set fine, whatever he/she deems fit. This isn't allowed in theory. A Police Officer doesn't have any right to just "take away" anything from you.

A set fine for 20km/h over the speed limit is $110.00. The fine for "stunt driving" can range at the officers discretion.

God this law makes me want to f'ing swear and punch babies..

your somewhat right. but keep in mind that when an officer pulls you over EVERYTHING is his discretion. Say you were pulled over for 20km/h over like you exampled, the officer can (and often does) drop that to 15km/h over. thus the officer can in essence charge what he wants in any scenario up to the limit he pulled you over for. Therefore I still disagree with the law being unconstitutional, I dont think the title of the law is appropriate (its not stunt driving by any means), but I definatly think the law is appropriate.

[Mafty]

I just dont understand why this law is so severe... 50km/h = 31mph ... Impound your car and 10k fine for 31mph over.... This has to be one of the most severe speeding fines across north america

way to look at it as the glass is half empty......its UP TO a 10k fine, and they can (dont have to) impound your car.

[DruidB]

way to look at it as the glass is half empty......its UP TO a 10k fine, and they can (dont have to) impound your car.

Um.... ok.. lets just look at the minimum...

$2000 fine for 31mph over... still one of the most severe speeding fines in North America

[Mafty]

Um.... ok.. lets just look at the minimum...

$2000 fine for 31mph over... still one of the most severe speeding fines in North America

dont go 50km/h over? pretty simple. If you need to drive 50km/h over the limit than somethings wrong. If you want to drive fast goto the track.

[fatsock]

I just dont understand why this law is so severe... 50km/h = 31mph ... Impound your car and 10k fine for 31mph over.... This has to be one of the most severe speeding fines across north america

In most cases the speed limit is 50 to 60 km/h...so if your driving double the speed limit don't you think there should be severe consequences...it's not like your driving on the auto bohn.

My friend has a porsche with wicked brakes, so maybe he should be allowed to do double, but Mazda 3's doing double, it's not like you can suddenly stop on a dime...

[stas]

your somewhat right. but keep in mind that when an officer pulls you over EVERYTHING is his discretion. Say you were pulled over for 20km/h over like you exampled, the officer can (and often does) drop that to 15km/h over. thus the officer can in essence charge what he wants in any scenario up to the limit he pulled you over for. Therefore I still disagree with the law being unconstitutional, I dont think the title of the law is appropriate (its not stunt driving by any means), but I definatly think the law is appropriate.

In 1 year they had the law less than 50% of charges were not dropped or decreased to a lesser charge in court. Note that you have to pay fee's to go with the charge (impound, cab/ttc for a week, insurance going up or dopped, towing, etc.), and you are not reimbursed if the charge is dropped. So given all that i believe the law is unjust to the people. I agree that going 50km/h over the limit should be punished, but it has to go through court. Give people the fine, have them to go court, let the judge decide on everything else. If you are caught going 20 over you still get to go to court for the judge to decide if it should be dropped or decreased. I have been against this law from the begining and still am, but agree that they had good intentions when making it. We already have enough problems with the police force, they are opening 6 new locations that are going to deal strictly with parking tickets. If you can take a BS parking ticket to court, and not suffer any consequences prior, then why are we letting cops do the judges work for much more severe "crime"? Give me the fine if i know i did wrong and agree to pay then i will but if the cop messed up i will go to court. Also they should make it clear in the law what is and isn't falling under this new law.

[stas]

way to look at it as the glass is half empty......its UP TO a 10k fine, and they can (dont have to) impound your car.

they always impound your car, it might say they don't have to but do anyways. just like you being pulled over for having a loud exhaust, there is no such thing as rules/laws/regulations for it, as cops told me "loud is loud". they do whatever they want, and i'm sick of it

[Mafty]

they always impound your car, it might say they don't have to but do anyways. just like you being pulled over for having a loud exhaust, there is no such thing as rules/laws/regulations for it, as cops told me "loud is loud". they do whatever they want, and i'm sick of it

similarily there is no law as to what % of tint is to dark. if officer cant see in the window its too dark. not sure why tint places always say 35% is legal. no such thing as legal tint really. (look it up in hta if you disagree)

but there is a law for excessive noise for the exhaust. your right there is no decible limit, but there is still a law for having a noisy exhaust. its just how much of a prick the cop is and how far he is going to take it

[stas]

similarily there is no law as to what % of tint is to dark. if officer cant see in the window its too dark. not sure why tint places always say 35% is legal. no such thing as legal tint really. (look it up in hta if you disagree)

but there is a law for excessive noise for the exhaust. your right there is no decible limit, but there is still a law for having a noisy exhaust. its just how much of a prick the cop is and how far he is going to take it

if there is no decible limit or regulations on the amount of light entering the vehicle through the window how can they write tickets? tinting issue i understand, but excessive noise must be measured in decibels. For example if you stand by a truck or a bus you will notice that they are much louder than most aftermarket exhaust systems, at same RPM. atleast that is my subjective oppinion. Without a dB reading i would be more enclined to write them a ticket than to a modified car (all interests aside). What if a cop has a headache and any noise for him is loud? How do we justify such a ticket? What is an officers deffence when he goes to court, "Loud is Loud"? Similarly, a cop can't give you a speeding ticket without proof, either: 1. radar reading or; log of your speed for a period of time and then taking the average of highest and lowest. A speeding ticket based on officers interpretation of how fast you were driving will not stick in court room, even if he based it off the speed officer was driving at or says "at the time i was going 80km/h in a 60km/h zone, and the distance wasn't increasing or decreasing between us."
There are standards in every law we have, and they are clearly outlined. If we look at it from the standpoint that "loud is loud", then say that they are allowed to write you a ticket because you had a red car when you bought it and now it looks pink due to weathering, so he was write you for having wrong info on your registration.

[towelsnap]

but... all of us "tm3" members don't need to worry we race on the track not the hwy or streets

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

Okay, seriously, WTF???? This sounds like something I would expect to hear in the bible-belt of the U.S., not here in communist Ontario. The "Lord's Work"... Fark me...

The media is just as bad for perpetuating this tripe.


Speeding law 'Lord's work' for Fantino
By BRETT CLARKSON, SUN MEDIA

OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino calls it "the Lord's work" and says cops "will make no apologies" for continuing to enforce a law that gives police the power to impound vehicles and slap high fines against drivers before a conviction is reached in court.

After a Napanee judge ruled a section of the provincial anti-stunt driving law to be unconstitutional last week, Fantino yesterday defended the legislation and said police shouldn't be regarded as the "bad guys" for trying to save dangerous drivers from themselves and others.

"We're saving lives," Fantino said. "The people who need to get their act together are those who are driving aggressively, who are driving dangerously, who in this case are driving in excess of 50 km/h over the posted speed limit.

"They're the ones who are the problem, we're not it. We're just trying to save them from being killed and killing other people."

Jane Raham, 62, was returning from Kanata when she was clocked at 131 km/h in an 80 km/h zone. She had her licence automatically suspended and car seized for seven days.

The government said it plans to appeal Justice Geoffrey Griffin's ruling. In the interim, the street-racing law is still in effect because the decision is not binding on other cases, a spokesman for the ministry of the attorney general said.

"Our position is that the street-racing provisions are constitutional and that they are an important public safety initiative," said ministry spokesman Brendan Crawley.

"People should understand ... police can still lay charges."

In an interview with the Sun, Fantino defended the legislation against claims it grants police too much power.

"We don't consider this a frivolous piece of legislation, nor do we see it as an abuse of due process or people's rights or entitlements," Fantino said.

"When you look at the carnage that we're experiencing on our highways, the kinds of injuries we're having to deal with, the extraordinary health costs, the loss of productivity, the loss of a loved one, all of which is preventable, and you look at speed being a causal factor, I think we're doing the Lord's work, personally. And we'll continue doing it."

BRETT.CLARKSON@SUNMEDIA.CA

[Fuman]

Lord's work, lol.
Thought Religion and government isn't suppose to mix?

[Iceman_F1]

Okay, seriously, WTF???? This sounds like something I would expect to hear in the bible-belt of the U.S., not here in communist Ontario. The "Lord's Work"... Fark me...

The media is just as bad for perpetuating this tripe.


Speeding law 'Lord's work' for Fantino
By BRETT CLARKSON, SUN MEDIA

OPP Commissioner Julian Fantino calls it "the Lord's work" and says cops "will make no apologies" for continuing to enforce a law that gives police the power to impound vehicles and slap high fines against drivers before a conviction is reached in court.

After a Napanee judge ruled a section of the provincial anti-stunt driving law to be unconstitutional last week, Fantino yesterday defended the legislation and said police shouldn't be regarded as the "bad guys" for trying to save dangerous drivers from themselves and others.

"We're saving lives," Fantino said. "The people who need to get their act together are those who are driving aggressively, who are driving dangerously, who in this case are driving in excess of 50 km/h over the posted speed limit.

"They're the ones who are the problem, we're not it. We're just trying to save them from being killed and killing other people."

Jane Raham, 62, was returning from Kanata when she was clocked at 131 km/h in an 80 km/h zone. She had her licence automatically suspended and car seized for seven days.

The government said it plans to appeal Justice Geoffrey Griffin's ruling. In the interim, the street-racing law is still in effect because the decision is not binding on other cases, a spokesman for the ministry of the attorney general said.

"Our position is that the street-racing provisions are constitutional and that they are an important public safety initiative," said ministry spokesman Brendan Crawley.

"People should understand ... police can still lay charges."

In an interview with the Sun, Fantino defended the legislation against claims it grants police too much power.

"We don't consider this a frivolous piece of legislation, nor do we see it as an abuse of due process or people's rights or entitlements," Fantino said.

"When you look at the carnage that we're experiencing on our highways, the kinds of injuries we're having to deal with, the extraordinary health costs, the loss of productivity, the loss of a loved one, all of which is preventable, and you look at speed being a causal factor, I think we're doing the Lord's work, personally. And we'll continue doing it."

BRETT.CLARKSON@SUNMEDIA.CA

Reading that left a bad taste in my mouth...

I see what both sides are trying to say. Kind of. But to bring religion and god into this topic....REALLY?

Frankly, I agree. Police should crack down on street racing and those "bad eggs" should have harsh punishments. Do I really think people should be going 50km/h over the speed limit? Nope. Have I done it? Yes, without realizing I'm going that fast and I slow down. But to say people should never speed and anyone speeding at all is basically the same as those going the 50km/h over? (and yes, some people think this way). GIVE ME A BREAK!!

I've seen people say the people speeding to get in front of someone are those that like to be in front. Ok, I can kinda see that. Hell, I'll admit I don't like following people sometimes and would rather pass someone so I have more clear space because I feel the person in front of me is driving slower than he/she should.

What about a situation where you are stuck behind someone weaving on the road, not staying in their lane, whatever. To me, that would justify a brief time to speed up, pass the person, then slow back down so that you aren't stuck behind that person and have the chance of getting caught up in a mess they may make.

There are some laws that I can agree if you break them, you get a very harsh penalty. I can understand some driving laws can have pretty harsh punishments and should not really be argued since it does save lives. But my thoughts have always been "Speed alone does not kill. It is the person speeding and in what situation" that does. Same as those shirts "Guns don't kill people. People kill people." They are cracking down on "speed" without looking at the situation and just assume that by "speeding" you are bad.

UGH...people infuriate me...

[Fobio]

Fantino, Saundercook and Miller = circle-jerking car Nazi's

[Cardinal Fang]

The Lord's work?

Ah yes God, through his mysterious ways has infiltrated our politicians to enact Laws to save people who are well off from speeding and killing themselves and others. Yet he still allows countless people to die from starvation in Africa. God has some pretty interesting priorities if you ask me.

[Fobio]

The Lord's work?

Ah yes God, through his mysterious ways has infiltrated our politicians to enact Laws to save people who are well off from speeding and killing themselves and others. Yet he still allows countless people to die from starvation in Africa. God has some pretty interesting priorities if you ask me.

shhh...god only talks to white ppl.

[Cardinal Fang]

And Christian Fundamentalists and those locked up in some Mental Wards. The differentiation between the two is often blured.

[Fuman]

The Lord's work?

Ah yes God, through his mysterious ways has infiltrated our politicians to enact Laws to save people who are well off from speeding and killing themselves and others. Yet he still allows countless people to die from starvation in Africa. God has some pretty interesting priorities if you ask me.

Jesus is Jewish, and look at holocaust.