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Thread: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

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    Default Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Hey Guys
    Im currently in a 2012 2.0L and looking at my next upgrade project for 2019
    and looking to upgrade the intake and exhaust Camshafts. (stage 1 or 2
    looking to increase low to mid HP/Torque) From the little research i've done
    i know Kelford and Cosworth fit. Did i miss any?

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by G ~ MINI View Post
    Hey Guys
    Im currently in a 2012 2.0L and looking at my next upgrade project for 2019
    and looking to upgrade the intake and exhaust Camshafts. (stage 1 or 2
    looking to increase low to mid HP/Torque) From the little research i've done
    i know Kelford and Cosworth fit. Did i miss any?
    Save your money, unless you plan to make the car track dedicated. I believe the money can be spent elsewhere to make a car faster without affecting reliability.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Thanks for the feedback

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by G ~ MINI View Post
    Thanks for the feedback
    Just trying to help. If you really want to go fast look on Kijiji at all the use MS3's. Lots of car for the prices I have seen them at.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    if not done yet solid motor mounts will make a huge difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lmmorden View Post
    Costco = good cheap solution
    Just go to automotive and ask to see their nuts
    It's like a buck a nut

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Hey Thanks !!
    I dont really want to go Turbo .. I love my sedan M5 2.0L (not like all the MS3 hatches out there)... its my daily drive and just enjoy driving it... Just want to max this fun ride.
    First thing i did was engine motor mount... and holy F ! what a difference , although it did take a good while to break in. I suggest you do it in the hot months ...
    At present i have already installed and did some of the work myself : cold air intake , light weight pulleys ( had to change serpentine belt anyway so went lighter pulleys ,
    exedy race flywheel (12lbs) ( my clutch was starting slip so i did flywheel too... found new racing flywheel and clutch for 300$) ,
    CatBack exhaust ( I punctured oem exhaust and was starting to make funny noise ) . Upgraded the suspension , dampers , stabilizer bars.
    Headers were only part i didnt have to upgrade but i did. Car drives like its better than new. I was considering getting into a mx5 but cost was way cheaper
    to stay with what i have and upgrade ... As for the MS3 maybe as a future track car.

    As for Camshafts Im leaning towards the Kelford Cams 211-B ... no rush ..maybe ill find them on kijiji or Craigs in canada or usa.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by G ~ MINI View Post
    Hey Thanks !!
    I dont really want to go Turbo .. I love my sedan M5 2.0L (not like all the MS3 hatches out there)... its my daily drive and just enjoy driving it... Just want to max this fun ride.
    First thing i did was engine motor mount... and holy F ! what a difference , although it did take a good while to break in. I suggest you do it in the hot months ...
    At present i have already installed and did some of the work myself : cold air intake , light weight pulleys ( had to change serpentine belt anyway so went lighter pulleys ,
    exedy race flywheel (12lbs) ( my clutch was starting slip so i did flywheel too... found new racing flywheel and clutch for 300$) ,
    CatBack exhaust ( I punctured oem exhaust and was starting to make funny noise ) . Upgraded the suspension , dampers , stabilizer bars.
    Headers were only part i didnt have to upgrade but i did. Car drives like its better than new. I was considering getting into a mx5 but cost was way cheaper
    to stay with what i have and upgrade ... As for the MS3 maybe as a future track car.

    As for Camshafts Im leaning towards the Kelford Cams 211-B ... no rush ..maybe ill find them on kijiji or Craigs in canada or usa.
    i would be surprised if you find these on kijiji i dont think i have ever heard anyone wanting to change cams on a mazda 3. you for sure would be the first. sadly everyone wants to go turbo myself included but by the sounds and struggles of others.. its a lot of money and not worth it. and easier to find a speed 3.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Hey Booter
    Thanks for your feedback.
    I totally agree with you MS3 and turbo is the easiest way to I crease HP ..but to do it right a proper upgrade or engine swap is
    $2000- 6000 usd at minimum plus the little extras.
    Call me an old fashioned non boost guy...
    Btw your right camshafts will be hard to source
    On Kijiji...was looking yesterday and some is selling
    HKS cams for 1.6 miata. I sources a new clutch and racing flywheel for $350 on Kijiji I'm in no rush ..this car is a slow project Daily drive... Got all winter to source and pick up a
    Deal..

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by G ~ MINI View Post
    Hey Booter
    Thanks for your feedback.
    I totally agree with you MS3 and turbo is the easiest way to I crease HP ..but to do it right a proper upgrade or engine swap is
    $2000- 6000 usd at minimum plus the little extras.
    Call me an old fashioned non boost guy...
    Btw your right camshafts will be hard to source
    On Kijiji...was looking yesterday and some is selling
    HKS cams for 1.6 miata. I sources a new clutch and racing flywheel for $350 on Kijiji I'm in no rush ..this car is a slow project Daily drive... Got all winter to source and pick up a
    Deal..
    well good luck, like i said this is the first time ( less 1 other turbo 3 that went back to non) but i dont know if he did cams that ive ever heard anyone want to change them on here, so i have a feeling its a small market and you will end up getting a new set. also unless they are new in a package or purchased from someone on here i dont know how i would feel about buying used cams out of an open box, anyone can sell you anything and tell you what it is.

    i would be safe and buy them brand new before you get something used or thats shot and you put it in and blow up the motor, then you would have wised you spent 2-6k on a speed 3 motor.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    I agree... New easier to find. And for all you MS3 considering adding Camshafts to your projects.
    Cosworth fit (all Duratec and MZR) NOn & Turbo 2.0 , 2.3 & 2.5 at $728 usd and not sure if VVT compatible and not sure about Springs that work with it. Supertech has Kits for all MS3
    Kelford supplies non & turbo and has spring kits at $684 plus $283 and are VVT with gains at 20WHP with a oem setup ...more if exhaust is opened up plus a tune.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Can't wait to see the build. Most people that post about this mod couldn't install a cai themselves which is why they get the don't waste your money comment. It is clear you know some stuff. Can't wait to see the dyno results. It should be a cool sounding motor.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by G ~ MINI View Post
    And for all you MS3 considering adding Camshafts to your projects.
    Considered it then skipped them. I am not bashing but forced induction adds way more.

    An upgraded turbo gets more HP/TQ than any camshaft for us.
    If there was a huge gains from them you would see more options on the market for MS3/6's. Also, upgrading a turbo is easier than doing cams on MS3/6's (we don't need to realign timing on the engine). The money from an upgraded cam being used for a better turbo would net me more HP/TQ.

    Cams on an NA motor may be different so go for it. Cams on the 2.3L DISI engine are not needed.
    @jeff7670 It's clear you don't know that I have done a full build with a forged engine and upgraded turbo w/ aux fueling. Installing a CAI is tough though...

    I am not trying to discourage anyone but I don't want to see money wasted on small gains, when larger gains can be made with small changes.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    True on the Cams for DISI ... but if you go big..larger Turbo (especially over 350whp ) you need to upgrade the Cams and springs to handle the extra boost ... plus a larger heatexchanger to keep the turbo cool
    With all that HP at the wheels. You need to stop that HP with better brakes and a suspension. Its always a balancing act.

    Forced Induction....Im thinking about. And yes more power but no kits for Mazda 3. MX5 kits from Kraftwork for MZR 2.0L engine will work but configuration is wrong... all connecting parts and tubing with have to be made. This UK company has turbo and forced induction kits and parts for the 2.0L but they are pricey .. http://www.bbrgti.com/shop/?filter_car_model=mx-5-05-on
    I get all my ideas from them and source them for cheaper here.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Camshafts Update for those who are interested in exploring that avenue NA Or MS3.
    Kelford offers Stage 1 & 2 Camshafts for both. Springs upgrade required for MS3 mainly because you want max boost if you are upgrading it past OEM capabilities.
    No need to Upgrade Springs on NA unless you plan on driving your baby in the redline all the time. OEM springs start to float with excessive redline (race conditions).
    Price is over $700 usd and Spring Kit $285 . Kelford said expected gains (depending on mods and tune 15-30 WHP for a 2.0L)

    Moto East does a stage 1.5 Camshaft from Blank Mazda OEM camshafts and is specific MX5 supplier and product description says its for all VVT MZR 2.0L & 2.5L and some 2.3L
    No spring upgrade needed unless you plan to Tune the rev limiter above factory. I'm waiting for them to get to back to me on exact fit for 2012 Mazda 3 2.0L
    Stage 1.5 $599 usd Expected gains is about the same as Kelford.

    What is not talked much when we add mods , simple and complicated modification, a proper tune makes it all come together.
    I added a lighter flywheel and what a difference it is off the line especially after the final OV Tune.
    The biggest complaint i read about lighter flywheels is that they rev up faster but also rev down faster and daily traffic drive
    will be difficult... to be honest i drive 45 mins in traffic per day each way ..i find the lighter flywheel better in slow stop and go traffic than the OEM dual mass.
    Maybe its different with MS3 with 300whp engines with a light flywheel............

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Moto east camshafts fit all MZR 2.0L VVT

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    A 20whp upgrade on a N/A 2.0 would be sweet.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff7670 View Post
    A 20whp upgrade on a N/A 2.0 would be sweet.
    ....
    I'm getting a quote from my mechanic for swapping out camshafts to stage 1.5
    I'll decide then if its worth it. Im not that mechanical to do a camshafts install with shims ..etc

    I'm also looking at this throttle body : https://www.xero-limit.com/grams-70m...2006-2015.html $449 us
    Waiting to find out if it fits a mazda 3 and what HP gains are expected. This i can install myself.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Is the mx-5 factory intake manifold and throttle body any better then the mz3? That may be a cheap alternative.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff7670 View Post
    Is the mx-5 factory intake manifold and throttle body any better then the mz3? That may be a cheap alternative.
    Hey Thanks ...
    Maybe mx5 is a bit more less restrictive... for the install time and cost of swapping manifold I would swap and do an upgrade the throttle body
    https://gramsperformance.com/inducti...9-10-0070.html. Looking into it to see if it fits Mazda 3 2.0 configuration and expected HP gains.
    But with 30% more airflow ... but have to have exhaust and headers to handle the flow out to maximize the extra air flow

    For the MS3 https://corksport.com/performance-th...azdaspeed.html

    Check out what BBR in the UK is doing ... Individual cylinder throttle body.... no need for a oem manifold or oem throttle body ...
    https://www.bbrgti.com/product/bbr-m...rottle-bodies/ ....fits MX5 could probably fit mazda 3 configuration and would absolutely need a hands on tune.
    Minimum 15whp gain (CAI & Exhaust upgrade..much more with Cams upgraded) ... but with the sound similar to some of those carburetor-ed
    JDM Legends (240Z, GTR, 510 4& 6 cylinder naturally aspirated engines)
    Last edited by G ~ MINI; 12-20-2018 at 02:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by jeff7670 View Post
    Is the mx-5 factory intake manifold and throttle body any better then the mz3? That may be a cheap alternative.
    Quote Originally Posted by G ~ MINI View Post
    ....
    I'm getting a quote from my mechanic for swapping out camshafts to stage 1.5
    I'll decide then if its worth it. Im not that mechanical to do a camshafts install with shims ..etc

    I'm also looking at this throttle body : https://www.xero-limit.com/grams-70m...2006-2015.html $449 us
    Waiting to find out if it fits a mazda 3 and what HP gains are expected. This i can install myself.

    https://gramsperformance.com/inducti...9-10-0070.html Now $354 usd
    Last edited by G ~ MINI; 12-20-2018 at 02:08 PM.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    i like this discussion, please keep it up! very informative. i'm at work right now but will chime in when i have some free time! cheers all!

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by G ~ MINI View Post
    ....
    I'm getting a quote from my mechanic for swapping out camshafts to stage 1.5
    I'll decide then if its worth it. Im not that mechanical to do a camshafts install with shims ..etc

    I'm also looking at this throttle body : https://www.xero-limit.com/grams-70m...2006-2015.html $449 us
    Waiting to find out if it fits a mazda 3 and what HP gains are expected. This i can install myself.
    .........

    btw.... stage 1.5 camshafts swap out estimate (my mech usually estimates more time) is at 4-5 hrs at 80$/hr ..lets say 450$)
    Parts : camshafts from MotoEast / xero limit is $599 usd minus 10% ..today eguals $736 Cdn plus hst (no duty ..its usa made)
    Expected gains is about 20whp + (with CAI, header and cat back and tune is needed )
    So if you break down cost its about (not count hst and shipping cost or install because it may vary with each mech)
    $736 cdn gets you about 20WHP (at factory redline 7200/7500 NA...swap springs and retainers and seals and let it rev to
    8500-9000... of course you need a tune for that to happen and you should recondition your engine too ie : new gaskets and bearing
    and once you have engine opened up might as well replace rods and cylinder heads and rings ...its a new engine now and about $4000
    cost parts and labor) ...and lets compare to a Borla exhaust which is about $764 (Garage 16) and expected about 20hp.
    What you also get extra with the camshafts is increase power band response ( more with a lighter flywheel )
    with exhaust note changes, increased savaging (absolutely need a tune to take advantage of this extra suction created with the
    intake/exhaust valve overlap.

    P.S. please correct me if i am not correct or off. I'm learning this all from many sources ... Feedback is essential to minimize mistakes
    and costs.

    happy new year

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    When replacing cams, you'll also need to do the valve lash adjustment. So worst case scenario, if you had to replace all 16 buckets, you might be adding a lot more in cost. Last I remember when I did my engine build was that some buckets can cost as much as $14 a piece, so about $224 more in cost. The small shit adds up fast. Oh yeah, there's there friction washers needed for the camshafts and gear (cams are not keyed) and the one time use cam gear bolt that's used to bolt the gear to the camshaft.
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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Quote Originally Posted by Polish_Eagle View Post
    When replacing cams, you'll also need to do the valve lash adjustment. So worst case scenario, if you had to replace all 16 buckets, you might be adding a lot more in cost. Last I remember when I did my engine build was that some buckets can cost as much as $14 a piece, so about $224 more in cost. The small shit adds up fast. Oh yeah, there's there friction washers needed for the camshafts and gear (cams are not keyed) and the one time use cam gear bolt that's used to bolt the gear to the camshaft.
    Hey Thanks.
    I just ordered the Camshafts and they do provide shims/buckets with the cams. BTW..if i have not mentioned ...these are custom cams (stage 1.5 or stage 4)
    from OEM blank mazda cams .
    This something i cannot do myself .. Like you said to many little things to looks for and that wear over time that need to be new that i wouldnt know was worn.
    That why I have super confidence in the Mechs ar Oakville Auto Center. Each guy that works there and owners all have modified rides.
    They include alot of shop stuff in the labor.
    Last edited by G ~ MINI; 01-08-2019 at 10:45 AM.

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    Default Re: Upgrading Camshafts on MZR L engine (non DISI)

    Update : FYI if you plan on a Camshaft swap....2.0 or 2.5 NA Mazda 3 or Miata/MX5 non sky.

    Stage 1.5 Cams from MotoEast(https://www.xero-limit.com/) are $599 usd and got them at $500usd over xmas holiday. Just swapping OEM cams to stage 1.5 is average 15whp.
    Crower cut the cams from new factory blanks, ground and heat treated. Reliable as OEM. Buckets do not need replacing unless worn. Shims provided are precisely measured
    to take into account the diff in base cycle and variation due to wear of valvetrain or production variability. You maybe able to swap buckets back and forth between to
    achieve desired lash. Break in 10-20 mins on and off revving to 1500-3000. Should take experienced mech non stop 3-4 hrs.

    WHP Gain vs cost of product vs (example) a borla exhaust $765 CDN (garage 16)approx gains with CAI is 15-20 whp and probably about same time to install)
    Stage 1.5 cams $599usd ($780 Cdn today , but i think rate was better when i purchased them) 15 whp with no mods straight swap.
    I need to do a dyno and see what i got... TBC

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