BIG problem today.....

[tommy36]

The stories long so i'll try to make it short and sweet. I haven't been driving my car as often lately, so i pulled it out of the garage yesterday to drive to my parents. It had been in the garage since sunday night. When I got on the expressway the oil light came on, but i didn't think anything of it because it had been sitting and it was just starting to warm up so i went along with it. Until i noticed that it was a little sluggish accelerating then i became worried, before i could make a move the battery and then the engine light came on and the car shut down forcing me to glide over to the shoulder. I tried to restart but nothing happened. So, skipping ahead to the dealership where i was towed to. They checked it out today and found that all the oil had leaked out and was all over the bottom of the engine. So i get in touch with them later in the day and this is what they tell me; "We found that due to not using the correct oil filter housing socket, that i wore done the plastic housing causing it to fracture, leaking all the oil out, and seizing the engine". They were trying to tell me that this has been happening frequently on mazda engines. Now i've been changing oil on my cars all my life and i use an adjustable band oil filter wrench made for unscrewing oil filters, and your telling me that this caused the housing to break. Then he proceeded to tell me that this would not be covered, and that it would cost about $9,026.00 parts and labor to replace the engine. I am a little disgusted right now and i am going down to the dealership tommorrow to straighen this mess out. Does anyone think that i am in the wrong here?, or am i correct in thinking that this sounds like a technical issue with the plastic oil filter housing? I mean does it say in the manual that if you change your own oil you must use the exact oil filter cup wrench only to change your filter? Has anyone been using certain other tools like myself to change their filters? I just don't know what to think, i have all my records recorded in the manual and i have all the receipts from the oil filters and oil and other parts and services from this dealership, it is the only one that i've been dealing with since i bought the car. I mean what am i supposed to do?....i cant afford these repairs, and i shouldn't have to if the car is still under warranty.....

Tom

[FLIPDADY]

Damn Tommy that really sucks bro. The filter housings on the 2.3 motors are very delicate. Over tightening will cause a fracture if your not careful. It's good that you have records to help your case better.

[b]

If you are close to Erin Mills mazda try them out! I had a blown engine but I don't think my problem will help in your case.

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=15143&highlight=Blown+Engine

Either way it may help you out a bit. Hope you get this sorted out. That sucks. I was quoted around the same price for an engine too.

Let us know how it works out. Erin Mills was really understanding and fast if you can get it towed there...

B

[FLIPDADY]

Unfortunately blackman, tommy36 is stateside in Buffalo N.Y.
Erin Mills is kind of a stretch. Won't want to see the towing bill.

[3GFX]

Wow, sorry to hear Tom, it seems a little odd that happened to your motor. If I were you I'd get under there and see what it all looks like to see if their yankin ya. Either way good luck and sorry to hear.

[tommy36]

Well had a discussion today and it appears that even though the filter housing cracked without any notice the dealership can't do much, because mazda has been having this problem with these housings and they are going to consider it negligence and won't honor the warranty. So it appears that i am going to have to plead my case to a higher authority at mazda, and see what i can do. I'll keep you posted.....Oh and by the way, if anyone is wondering a new 2.3l engine lists for $7,500.00 without labor included.....That's an expensive stock 4cyl motor.....

[bubba1983]

eeeeeek, hope you get this figured out man!!!
im crossin my fingaz for yah!

[Flagrum_3]

Well had a discussion today and it appears that even though the filter housing cracked without any notice the dealership can't do much, because mazda has been having this problem with these housings and they are going to consider it negligence and won't honor the warranty. So it appears that i am going to have to plead my case to a higher authority at mazda, and see what i can do. I'll keep you posted.....Oh and by the way, if anyone is wondering a new 2.3l engine lists for $7,500.00 without labor included.....That's an expensive stock 4cyl motor.....

Talk to Mazda HO, but may I suggest atleast talking to a proper lawyer first.(proper in that he specializes in this area).
You might have to take Mazda to court or atleast threaten to take them to court and the threat is just that much stronger if you've already retained a lawyer.......$7500....thats a shit-load of paychecks!

Good-luck man.


_3


.

[b]

Unfortunately blackman, tommy36 is stateside in Buffalo N.Y.
Erin Mills is kind of a stretch. Won't want to see the towing bill.

Oops. I always just assume everyone in the toronto club is near by.

[wtom]

Tommy sorry to hear about this! Does the dealership still have your car? Make sure they don't TRY to tamper with anything. Hopefully you were able to check the oil filter housing to make sure it wasn't on wrong or whatnot. When was the last time you changed the oil anyway? I doubt it was recently (ie. you've been driving the car for at least a gas refill since the oil change, meaning it isn't your fault the oil leaked). Fingers crossed!

[Wild Weasel]

I'm a little bit conflicted over this. I mean... if it's been happening a lot as you say and Mazda accepts that this is a design defect, then I think they should replace it under warranty.

If not though... then I hate to say it because it sucks so bad but in all honesty it would be your fault for over tightening it and you can't expect Mazda to pick up the tab for your mistake, no matter how expensive.

Have you checked the manual yet? Do you have a service manual for the car? Does it list specific torque specs for this? If so... and they're much lighter than just wrenching on it, then you might be SOL.

I really hope for your sake that they take good care of you but if they don't, I hope you won't be screaming about what crap service Mazda has or some such thing.

[Skarbro]

I'm sad to hear about your situation. I actually bought the OEM Mazda oil filter wrench cup. I haven't done my own oil change yet, but I'll be sure to check the torque specs prior to doing it. At least your situation is a bit of education for the rest of us.

So when oil leaks out it doesn't find its way onto the ground?

[EvilEric]

Is this Mazda's way of saying "ONLY CHANGE OIL AT THE DEALER" or they won't honour issues that are caused by factory design?

What if you go to a different garage and get it changed there? Would that void the warrenty?

[MPS]

im sure Mazda will fix this it will take more time .....they fixed my motor 2 times with out warranty you may want to try a new dealer like MOT or Avante

[mf5781]

I don't think any dealers will help you if you don't have services with them. The warranty is from Mazda Canada and not from the dealers. If they did not change oil for you and the oil leaked, that's your responsibility. Why would the dealers fight for you? If you changed oil there, then you can blame the dealer. It would accept the blame and fight for you or absorb the cost itself. If I am wrong here, I hope Joe or Jeff of MOT can correct me.

Now I think you have to fight with Mazda Canada directly and hope you all the best because I know how tough it is. They would look at your past service history. For my claim on grooved rotors, they would even said I did not do my tire rotation with the dealer.

I doubt whether you should hire a lawyer. I think for a lawyer, it might cost even more than your engine. It's not a feasible way to fight a large corporation. They have money, they can drag the case on forever. Do you think you have enough money to continue?

In the recent BC case, a book store called Little Sisters, wanted to sue Canada Custom. But they did not have money, so they apply to court to ask for the government to pay the legal fees. But the court rejected it few days ago. So you know suing a large corp. is not making business sense.

[tommy36]

Thanks everyone for the ideas and support. I have been to the dealership, and this is the dealership that has taken good care of me since i bought the car, they have all my service records, and i have other receipts for everything else i have purchased. Yes to the question regarding having another garage change your oil. There happens to be another mazda3 in the back of the dealership with only 3,000 miles on it and the engine is blown because of the same problem, and the person had taken it to Valvoline and they must have used an improper tool. Now this person is fighting with valvoline over the whole incident, the car has been at the dealership since september. So this is a serious problem. Now my problem is that the owners manual does not even give directions on how to change the oil filter, it just says you SHOULD take the vehicle to the dealership and thats it. What kind of bulls%$t is that? Then on top of that i've been purchasing all my oil filters from the same dealership, and they have a 3 page bulletin on this problem and they never sent it out to any owners. How am i supposed to know about it if no one informs me of the problem. It all comes down to a lack of communication and someones in mazda is going to take responsibility, whether it be the dealership or someone higher up. The whole thing sucks because no matter what happens good or bad, i have lost respect for mazda. That's what kills me the most, i never had any problems, i documented everything in order to honor the warranty, something does happen and everyone turns their head. Thats messed up, and thats all i'm going to say. Whatever happened to customer service?.....

[mazda lover]

Why would Mazda use a plastic housing? just don't get it. Idiot engineers, cost cutting is probably the reason, why wouldn't they use a spin on filter like the 2.0? Hell the system used by Mazda and I believe other manufactures these days dates back to the 50s but a least they used a metal housing. I guess they want you to go to the dealer for oil changes so they can make a few dollars, big deal.

[tommy36]

As you all know by now from this thread, this past Thursday, January 18th I had the engine in my 3 seize up because the plastic oil filter housing had cracked and sprayed out all the oil on the expressway. When the dealership had investigated they claimed it was my fault, because in changing my own oil and using an oil filter adjustable band wrench the wrench had supposedly weakened the housing causing it to crack. Then they proceeded to tell me they had a bulletin at the dealership explaining this issue. So I asked why I hadn't received this info when I always come in there for my filters. They said it was just sent to the dealerships. So to make a long story short, I have followed all the quidelines and paperwork for the warranty and never had a problem. Now something happens and they want me to pay about $9,000.00 to have a new engine put in, that's not right. So I am in early discussions with Mazda to get the issue resolved, but if these discussions fall through I might need help from anyone that this housing problem has happened to. I have been informed through some of the forums that this has occured in several cases. If these others wouldn't mind giving out their names and cities of location for a sort of petition showing that I am not the only one this has happened to, would be greatly appreciated. I want to express to Mazda that they have an issue with this part and their communication methods, so that they may understand our concern. Also if anyone would just like to contribute to this cause either way feel free to leave your info as well, this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks everyone,

Sincerely,

Tom Was
Buffalo, NY

[MAZDA Kitten]

All the best and good luck against Mazda


FYI; my bf said an engine rebuild would be around $2000 - if all else fails?

[Wild Weasel]

Firstly, I don't think going with plastic is a bad idea simply because it can break. So long as it won't break when done correctly, then it's likely better because it's probably lighter. If this is the case, then this is an improvement.

Things are going to change over time and people who work on cars have to be aware of this. I was talking to my mom the other day and I asked her if she'd read her owner's manual to know when to take her car in for oil changes. She responded with that "you think just because I'm a woman I don't know this stuff??" tone of voice saying she knows when to do oil changes, as if oil change intervals haven't changed since the beginning of time and are the same for all cars.

The fact is, if you're working on a car, you should have the service manual for the car. The owners manual doesn't tell you how to change the oil because as an owner, you don't need to know. If you want to do work on the car yourself, you need the service manual. That's what mechanics have.

I really do feel for you and it sucks that this is such an expensive lesson but you really have no right to expect Mazda to pick up the tab on this, or to be angry at them if they don't.

[Skarbro]

The online manual is for 2004 cars I believe. It doesn't have the torque spec for the new plastic housing.

However, according to this DIY oil change page (http://robert.aitchison.org/tiki-page.php?pageName=Mazda3+DIY+Oil+Change), the torque spec for the housing is stamped right on it! (30 n-m (265.5 lb-in / 22.1 lb-ft) - check yours. It may be different)

Did you use the torque spec from the housing?

[BLKOUT]

It is things like this that make me take my 3 to the dealership for everything, including oil changes. The last thing I want is a fight with Mazda over warranty work. If they service it, they are responsible.

I feel for ya man!

[tommy36]

First of all, I understand that cars are changing but with changing cars there should be responsibility to inform the buyer of the information they need to know. Most of my generation is into DIY, for the reason that you don't need to worry about someone else screwing up things. I understand that just because I've been changing my oil for 12 years now without a problem until now doesn't mean I know everything. Obviously cars are changing as I found out in this case, but parts should not be breaking under these conditions. All I'm saying is that Mazda and other car makers need to do a better job getting the word out about things like this. I shouldn't have to buy a service manual in order to change my oil filter, just be straighforward and tell me I need to use this certain tool, don't leave me guessing.
So I did get a call from the Service Manager today and they are going to cover a new engine, except they want me to assume some responsibility and pay $500.00, which is perfectly fine with me. They also ordered me one of the cap wrenches so this won't happen again. As you might assume I am very relieved and pleased that the dealership fought for me, now I can stop worrying and get my baby back safe and sound. Thanks everyone for the support.

Tom

[bubba1983]

pony up $500, no problem, id hit it!

[mf5781]

I'm happy you have this happy ending. I admit I was wrong in saying that no dealer would fight for you. I hope there are such dealers in Canada.

[S.F.W.]

great news Tommy. Seems like a fair deal.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Tommy, good to hear that your dealership is going to bat for you.

if you check out the blown engine thread on m3f (http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=50920.0), you'll see that the majority of blown 2.3L engines are the result of a cracked cartridge filter cover...whether it be from DIY or the dealership.

I monitor my oil level every week and, one week after 1000kms of driving, I had to add 1L of oil. the next week, after another 1000kms of driving, I had to add another ~1L of oil... the next week, after a little less than 700kms of driving, i had to add ~0.5L of oil. this was ridiculous, almost 3L of oil in 3000kms.
I checked for visible leaks, nada...however, i did remember seeing a tech at one dealership using an oil filter wrench to remove and tighten the plastic cap a few years back. who knows if all the techs that've changed my oil used the proper cap wrench or not.

in any case, after reading all that stuff about cracked cartridge filter covers, and not wanting to 1) be a victim and 2) go about proving that it was cracked, i got the spin-on conversion done at MoT (first car that their shop foreman has converted :) )...

http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35101171367.jpg
http://img1.putfile.com/thumb/12/35101171360.jpg

since then, oil consumption has virtually disappeared...makes you wonder.

[Skarbro]

in any case, after reading all that stuff about cracked cartridge filter covers, and not wanting to 1) be a victim and 2) go about proving that it was cracked, i got the spin-on conversion done at MoT (first car that their shop foreman has converted :) )...


Whoa... I was under the impression that the dealer would void the warranty if I converted to the spin-on filter. MoT is willing to do the conversion for me? How much did it cost? If the dealer is willing to do it, then I'm in! No more worries about warranty problems and no more plastic filter cap.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Whoa... I was under the impression that the dealer would void the warranty if I converted to the spin-on filter. MoT is willing to do the conversion for me? How much did it cost? If the dealer is willing to do it, then I'm in! No more worries about warranty problems and no more plastic filter cap.

i'm way past both factory warranties :)

[MPS]

that is sweet that ur getting ur baby back btw how much is the tool i want 1 also

[Skarbro]

Ah I see. So you don't really care because you aren't under warranty. I guess I'll stick to the plastic cap thing for now then.

[b]

Glad it worked out for ya. You got lucky! Welcome to the 2nd engine club lol.

[MPS]

BTW i told you there going to take good care of you
as bad as you think mazda is they alway look after there costumers thats why i still drive a Mazda...
mine had 3 trannys and 2 motors all warranty 8-)




im sure Mazda will fix this it will take more time .....they fixed my motor 2 times with out warranty you may want to try a new dealer like MOT or Avante

[Chiburashka]

...
mine had 3 trannys and 2 motors all warranty 8-)

How do you drive lol...

[Skarbro]

First of all, I understand that cars are changing but with changing cars there should be responsibility to inform the buyer of the information they need to know. Most of my generation is into DIY, for the reason that you don't need to worry about someone else screwing up things. I understand that just because I've been changing my oil for 12 years now without a problem until now doesn't mean I know everything. Obviously cars are changing as I found out in this case, but parts should not be breaking under these conditions. All I'm saying is that Mazda and other car makers need to do a better job getting the word out about things like this. I shouldn't have to buy a service manual in order to change my oil filter, just be straighforward and tell me I need to use this certain tool, don't leave me guessing.
Tom

I disagree with you whole heartedly. Cars are constantly evolving. They don't have to give you a shop repair manual with every car. They don't really want you doing your own oil changes anyway! You should really be pro-active and obtain a shop manual whenever you get a new car that you've never worked on before. No responsible mechanic would tackle a car without first learning about it by referencing a shop manual. It isn't Mazda's responsibility to inform you of engineering changes they've done on each car.

My generation is the DIY oil change generation too. I've always done my own (except the first 2 on my Mazda 3 so far). When I read a long time ago that we need a special tool, I went out and bought that Mazda special tool. You can't mess around with plastic.

I'm going to assume that you didn't torque it with a torque wrench?

Anyway, congrats on getting them to admit fault. I can see where they are coming from though. You got pretty lucky.

[Flagrum_3]

Hey thats great news Tommy! Sounds like a great dealership, they definitely bent backwards for you and $500 bucks I guess covers thier labour which is pretty fair...I'd suggest a round of coffee for dealer boys! and buy yourself a manual.


_3


.

[tommy36]

There is no question that the dealership is going to get a big meal on me, maybe even a few beers(after the work is done of course). I don't want my engine in backwards. The dealership actually ordered me the tool, it's like $16.00 us or something, I told them to get it. I just wish it was done already. I'm going to drive all next weekend when I get it back, I can't wait.....Hopefully I can pass on the word to everyone that this is a serious problem, and learn from my mistake, and others who did the same thing. Buy the tool, it's only about $20.00 at the most, it could save you a lot in the long run.

[tommy36]

Dealership came through way ahead of schedule. They called this morning to tell meet it was ready for PU. I can't believe this. They just ordered the engine on Wed. in on Thurs. early afternoon, and done putting in Fri. night, test drive Sat. morning. Thats fast, took me three months to rebuild my mustang engine years ago. I can't wait to see my one and only again.....

[3GFX]

Good news man.

[bubba1983]

lets hope that you won't have any post mordem problems

[tommy36]

Well babied it for about 50 miles today. Everything seems to be tip top so far, no CEL's. It almost feels as if nothing ever happened, it's really weird. Anyways, keep your fingers crossed.....

[JPAV8S4U]

Hey Tommy! Good on ya man! Glad to see things worked out for you. I would love to DIY, but for some reason over the years I really dont like getting dirty under the car anymore... Rather pay the money and pass the responsibility! CYA is my modo and for the 10 bucks id save by diy.... not worth it to me. Plus... if I was to do my own changes... id more than likely feel inclinded to put the best oil and filters I could find in it and then my costs would be way higher!


How much is that spin on mod?..... just asking :P

[MazdaTree]

Good to hear things got better!
See you in spring/summer!

[mazda lover]

BTW i told you there going to take good care of you
as bad as you think mazda is they alway look after there costumers thats why i still drive a Mazda...
mine had 3 trannys and 2 motors all warranty 8-)


3 trannys and 2 motors all in a Mazda3? All your fault or Mazda's? I would have to question Mazda's reliability...wouldn't you?

[mazda lover]

Unfortunately blackman, tommy36 is stateside in Buffalo N.Y.
Erin Mills is kind of a stretch. Won't want to see the towing bill.

Glad to hear this issue has been resolved for tommy36
Just wondering if Mazda Canada would have come through for anyone of us Canadians? or a dealer in the GTA would go to bat for us owners? Anybody care to find out...? My point is I think and I could be wrong, that us Canadians are treated differently compared to our U.S. neighbours...no proof just a thought...let the flames begin..

[TheProfessor]

Good to see that they took care of you, even if it may not have been their rsponsibility to do so. Good job Mazda!

[wtom]

Spin-on conversion mod (oil filter) is approx $160 CAD. FLIPSPEED to correct me if I'm way off.