Blown engine '04 2.3L

[Pumpkin3]

Hi all,

Figured this was a good place to get information/feedback on my beloved 3Sport. This past Sunday, as my Odo approached 119,000 I backed out of my driveway, put the car in first and travelled 50 feet to the stop sign. 500 meters later, I see my oil light on, and shortly there after, I'm out of oil and (later learn) I have a rod blown through the front of my engine.

I bought the car in Sept'04 on my birthday and have made every honest attempt to keep up with the 8000km maintenance intervals. A few times I've gone 12k between oil changes, and was late on the 96k service by 2,000. I bought a full end Mazda extended warranty, kept all my servicing at a Mazda dealer and at the moment, Mazda has said that they won't repair/replace the engine under warranty due to owner neglect.

At 37,000km/year I drive, 85% of it is on the 407 at 120km/h on cruise. I absolutely love this car, it's the most fun I've had since my 5-speed 2000 Lincoln LS.

I'm starting to wonder if the 2.3 was a new engine to the 2004 line (it's my first Mazda) and Mazda doesn't have a large sampling of engines with 120k yet?

I keep the car stock, with no mods at all. And while everyone would say there's no owner neglect, based on lifestyle and job schedule, I've made every attempt to keep close to the maintenance schedule.

Has anyone heard of these engines blowing, or are you shocked by Mazda's response to deny warranty?

All feedback is welcomed.

TIA,
My feet don't seem as fast without my 3Sport clutch under them..

[Skarbro]

What is the details of your extended warranty?

How did the oil leak out?

[Pumpkin3]

I've got a 60 month 160,000km (zero deductible) comprehensive Mazda Added Protection warranty.

It appears, by all accounts, that the oil leaked (gushed) out when the rod cracked the engine block. The leak is at the front of the engine and has splattered towards the front of the car to the rad.

I've got the dealer tearing the engine down tomorrow (at my expense) to prove it's not owner neglect. (If it's owner neglect for missing a couple oil changes by 4k, then I better find a new mode of transit, cause it's bound to happen a couple times to me)

(edit: The engine, it appears cracked where the oil started leaking, and not before. Oddly enough, I didn't hear a loud noise as one would expect.. This is my 8th car, and I've driven about 1M km lifetime, I've had my share of problems, including a blown engine on a 88 Ford Tempo, this wasn't the same bang and grind)..

[MPS]

wow extended warranty i knew it was a waste of money

sorry to hear about that
what dealer is that car @ ???
maybe you need to take it to some other dealer that will put up a fight for you like Avante

and yes the motors are crap in this car
in my 04 i had 2 motors and now i drive a speed 3 got my first motor @ 7000 km

[SpeedBaby]

and this is where i would REALLY like to hear the comment from the person with extensive expertise in extended warranty, please and thank you.

[Unoriginalusername]

get a lawyer, they have to prove it was your fault before they can deny your claim... escalate to mazda canada if you're dealer isn't being good.

[WhiteSpeed3]

take it to avante on my second 3 they fixed my blown motor and then MPS motor the next week

[b]

PM me and I'll answer anything you ask... I blew my engine November last year. What dealership are you at and I can share what dealerships that I think would take care of you...

Read this thread on my blown engine.

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=15143

I know what you are feeling and what you are going through. I feel for you!!!!!!

[MPS]

lol B how did i miss that

man that sounds like my 04 rite before death:chuckle

[b]

Ya it was brutal! A lot of us have blown engines for such a small toronto club... unless it happens in the car industry more than I know.

[Skarbro]

How many 2.3 engines have been blown? I generally do not come across many on this board.

[Pumpkin3]

wow extended warranty i knew it was a waste of money

sorry to hear about that
what dealer is that car @ ???
maybe you need to take it to some other dealer that will put up a fight for you like Avante

and yes the motors are crap in this car
in my 04 i had 2 motors and now i drive a speed 3 got my first motor @ 7000 km

I'm North-West of the city. It's at Brampton Mazda right now, who, in their defense, are putting up a big fight on my behalf. I had it towed there yesterday from another dealer who basically rolled over when Mazda first said no.

Up till now, I've loved my Mazda experience, and was looking at a new 6 or CX-7 to replace my other car.. (And debated more than once about upgrading my 3 to a Speed), but that's all pending this outcome now.. :-(

[sauga_kid]

Hope everything works out for you, I usually take my car there to get serviced too and they take care of me so hopefully they do the same for you. Good luck!

[Kevin@nextmod]

Thats almost like what happened to my friends TSX. He had a differetial shaft broken or something and the car was towed to north acura. Acura denied the warranty claim because the district manager said it was driven harsh. The car is slightly modded but engine and transmission was never touched. My friend filed a complain to honda canada and all they said was the car was driven harsh that caused this problem because they never experienced anything like this before. So now it got my friend all pissed off, so he actually said he'll never buy another acura/honda ever again (he even mentioned that in the letter) even tho he has another RSX -S and his dad has an odyssey.

Another thing was they took apart the tranny and then said its not warranty anymore, so you'll have to pay for the new one which is $3k plus labor. And if you do'nt want to fix it, we stilll have to charge you labor for taking apart the tranny which is $1k. The whole process of taking apart the tranny took 3 full weeks and did not offer a loaner to my friend.

[Flagrum_3]

I would think that if the problem does end up being a blown push-rod, they (Mazda) would be fully obligated by contract and law to replace your engine under the extended warranty (full cost, including the work presently being done).I don't think missing oil change intervals by a few k would suffice as an objection by Mazda....But, if I were you I would threaten to get a lawyer, not actually retain one, just threaten has if you have.

Good Luck.


_3


.

[Wild Weasel]

Missing the regular oil changes by 50% of the recommended mileage is not a good way to stay in their good graces though!

Just a caution to everyone reading this. Missing by 4000km's wouldn't qualify as "making every honest effort" in my books.

I don't mean that as criticism to pumpkin, and don't think that should have caused this sort of failure, but you have to be responsible for the maintenance of the car. Missing an interval by a thousand km's is one thing. Missing it by 4000 kms is basically skipping every other oil change!

[Pumpkin3]

I don't completely disagree with Wild on this either. I'm in Georgetown, my office is at 404 and Steeles. My job is customer facing and requires my car most days. Working 8-8 doesn't offer me a lot of time to get to a dealer, especially when, for an oil change, I can't get a loaner (not at the dealer I chose anyways + I'm not paying +$50 more to rent a car each oil change), and, honestly, dealers don't work as fast as Mr. Lube - and I believe in servicing at the dealer. Sustained highway miles aren't as hard as city driving.

My father also worked 40+years at Ford in Service Operations. His comments were, recommended service intervals have some built-in leeway. An engine, without low oil levels can go 15,000km between changes. His advice, which I'm waiting on the tear down is basically, if the engine is full of sludge, "tough luck kid - that's poor maintenance", if it's relatively clean, it's mechanical failure. Without an engine oil analysis, the claim can't be denied over the phone.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a saint on the maintenance, but if I were chosing to blatantly miss them, I'd choose to miss the $300 major services at 24, 48, 72, and 96 which I didn't.

The criticism is not out of line.

[nicker]

WOW I hope it all works out for you. I agree its not a good think to miss the scheduled service. I am not saying that you neglect your car. But lets face it, a New engine and install is not CHEAP. And id think most places would do anything to get out of this. Lets hope they back you and don't leave you on your own.

I guess this is a wake up for all of us. Make sure you following Mazda's service recommendations and KEEP documentation of it all!

[midnightfxgt]

I am reading this an am amazed at the fact you own up to missing oil changes etc, and realize its not the best thing to do. Too many people would simply pass the buck and say there is nothing wrong with it, Mazda sucks, and I wont buy another. Kudos on being reasonable :)

I think having the motor torn down for proof of a claim denial is great. Odds are that there is no real neglect. Missing oil changes by 4000K is not going to cause premature failure of that magnitude (IMHO). Also, if they claim it ran dry, point out the gapping hole that the oil shot out of. I am curious to see how they try to get out of this.

-John

[Unoriginalusername]

take it to avante on my second 3 they fixed my blown motor and then MPS motor the next week

what was wrong with your mps engine?

[b]

Do you have all of your paperwork in order? Make copies before you give it over!! Empty everything out of your car as it will be there for a few weeks to come... What else did I wish I had done...

Once it is valid under warranty they will cover a loaner car. Well they did for me....

[MPS]

threats don't work with Mazda i know better then any one
just get a lawyer and serve them with court papers




I would think that if the problem does end up being a blown push-rod, they (Mazda) would be fully obligated by contract and law to replace your engine under the extended warranty (full cost, including the work presently being done).I don't think missing oil change intervals by a few k would suffice as an objection by Mazda....But, if I were you I would threaten to get a lawyer, not actually retain one, just threaten has if you have.

Good Luck.


_3


.

[Pumpkin3]

Good news everyone!

Mazda of Brampton just called. All the information I had been given by the first dealer was incorrect. I had been told that a rod cracked the block.

Turns out the engine had a major, rare failure. The result of the tear down was that the oil filter housing cracked causing the #2 and #4 pistons rod bearings to seize. The rods did not crack the block, nor is the block cracked in any way.

Mazda is replacing my engine, there is no sign of neglect, and I get a rental tomorrow while I wait for the new one to come in and get installed - hopefully by next Friday!

Lesson learned though... I will be more diligent to make sure I keep closer to my service intervals, as inconvenient as it can be at times.

Thanks for the comments and ideas. Like "B", I'll update when the new one goes in.

Hooray! more life with my little orange pumpkin!

[Wild Weasel]

Incidentally... if ever your oil light comes on, STOP DRIVING. :)

Sadly, this isn't that rare a failure.

[Skarbro]

Congrats!

And this is yet another reason why I will be switching to the 2.0 oil filter housing that uses the spin-on filter as soon as my warranty is up.

[Unoriginalusername]

Good news everyone!

Mazda of Brampton just called. All the information I had been given by the first dealer was incorrect. I had been told that a rod cracked the block.

Turns out the engine had a major, rare failure. The result of the tear down was that the oil filter housing cracked causing the #2 and #4 pistons rod bearings to seize. The rods did not crack the block, nor is the block cracked in any way.

Mazda is replacing my engine, there is no sign of neglect, and I get a rental tomorrow while I wait for the new one to come in and get installed - hopefully by next Friday!

Lesson learned though... I will be more diligent to make sure I keep closer to my service intervals, as inconvenient as it can be at times.

Thanks for the comments and ideas. Like "B", I'll update when the new one goes in.

Hooray! more life with my little orange pumpkin!


glad to hear that they are fixing it for you

[FLIPDADY]

glad to hear that they are fixing it for you
+1

I have seen some 3's come into the shop with absolutely no oil in the car and the customer still drove the car.:loco

[OnkelHans]

[QUOTE=Pumpkin3;248412]Good news everyone!

Mazda is replacing my engine, there is no sign of neglect, and I get a rental tomorrow while I wait for the new one to come in and get installed - hopefully by next Friday!

QUOTE]

This is great news - I bought the extended warranty and was starting to think it was a waste. Is this something I should be worried about on my 2007 Sport?

[b]

Thanks for the comments and ideas. Like "B", I'll update when the new one goes in.

Hooray! more life with my little orange pumpkin!

No problem. We are all here to help. Very happy for you that it is covered. I remember how it feels the minute they call and say everything is covered! Tonight you celebrate! :)

Again, very happy for you!

[Pumpkin3]

This is great news - I bought the extended warranty and was starting to think it was a waste. Is this something I should be worried about on my 2007 Sport?

Well, it was now worth my while. A rebuild was $4-5k. A zero kilometer engine is ~$10k. A/C replacement or even power window modules can be the same cost as the MAP. At $1800, it's an expensive insurance policy.

Based on my experience, unless you press the issue, a guy in a cubicle can look at service records and deny your claim. Keep up on your service, and DON'T lose the records. It was easy for me to get them, because all but 1 service was at the same dealer.

Regarding the cracked oil filter housing, they told me if the filter gets cranked on too hard (apparently an issue with the speed oil change houses) you can get the same issue. What they found unusual about mine is that, generally, the housing crack causes gradual leaking, but my previous oil change (7,000km ago) had no leaks until it outright blew on Sunday - I think that's what the "rare" part was.

[b]

Try to get a new one if you can... I had mine worked on for major engine repair and then it went a year later....it didn't last me very long...

[Flagrum_3]

Missing the regular oil changes by 50% of the recommended mileage is not a good way to stay in their good graces though!

Just a caution to everyone reading this. Missing by 4000km's wouldn't qualify as "making every honest effort" in my books.

I don't mean that as criticism to pumpkin, and don't think that should have caused this sort of failure, but you have to be responsible for the maintenance of the car. Missing an interval by a thousand km's is one thing. Missing it by 4000 kms is basically skipping every other oil change!

First of all glad to hear everything worked out for Pumpkin on this!!...
but its starting to worry me about that damn filter housing...seems to be mentioned as a problem way too often.

Anyways my point about the oil changes should be clarified, as I for one personally keep to the intervals religiously but if once in awhile ie; (not every interval or on a regular basis) you miss by several k kms, it cannot, or more precisely would be very difficult to be used as a excuse not cover a catastrophic failure as it is, oil does not cantaminate or fail that quickly unless your driving in the most extreme conditions, but I agree with WW that it would probably not help in dealing with these people in such a matter to do so.


You would think that Mazda/Ford would have thier engineers come up with a fix for this, as it must be costing them big to replace all these engines or maybe they have! ...Do the 07'-08's still have the plastic housing?



_3


.

[Skarbro]

Regarding the cracked oil filter housing, they told me if the filter gets cranked on too hard (apparently an issue with the speed oil change houses) you can get the same issue. What they found unusual about mine is that, generally, the housing crack causes gradual leaking, but my previous oil change (7,000km ago) had no leaks until it outright blew on Sunday - I think that's what the "rare" part was.
Yes, after changing my own oil a few times, I can see how easily they can wreck the filter housing. The torque settings for it and the filter drain plug are very weak. It almost feels too weak when you are tightening it up. The nice thing is that the torque setting is stamped right on it. But like you said, those speed oil change places could easily miss it and screw it up.

[BangHatch]

Very common occurrence for our engine.. 2.3L..

I'm already on my THIRD one.. first one blew @ 15k kms, second one blew @ 92k kms..

Welcome to the club :P

[Unoriginalusername]

wonder if the speed3 has the same design

[SpeedBaby]

yup, they sure do lol

[Gizzmo_jr]

I was doing my oil change today and was thinking....we need a CF or a billet cartridge housing. Wonder if FoMoCo has anything better, even in the COSWORTH department.

Oh Unoriginalusername, the Mz3 and MS3 both use the same long block (L3).

[Unoriginalusername]

I was doing my oil change today and was thinking....we need a CF or a billet cartridge housing. Wonder if FoMoCo has anything better, even in the COSWORTH department.

Oh Unoriginalusername, the Mz3 and MS3 both use the same long block (L3).

i know that, but i meant if the filter design which caused this issue is the same.... since the speed has a different oil capacity i wondered if it was as weak

[Gizzmo_jr]

Oh okay, gotcha. Identical as seen in my repair bible but you have a oil cooler.

[Skarbro]

The housing is super-weak. Over-torquing it is so easy and it's made of plastic. I can see how this is a common occurrence.

[midnightfxgt]

we need a CF or a billet cartridge housing. Wonder if FoMoCo has anything better, even in the COSWORTH department.


Easiest is to get a spin-on conversion :) Less than $100 with an oil change included in that price :)

-John

[BangHatch]

Easiest is to get a spin-on conversion :) Less than $100 with an oil change included in that price :)

-John

Not necessarily true...

After my first engine, i converted to spin-on... And guess what... Same thing happened still.. Go figure...

Honestly, your best bet is to simply check your oil levels regularly without waiting for your maintenance interval...

[Gizzmo_jr]

Why do I recall either here or M3F someone said doing the spin-on conversion would void the warranty? Makes sense it would.

[Skarbro]

Why do I recall either here or M3F someone said doing the spin-on conversion would void the warranty? Makes sense it would.
It does void the warranty with respect to everything that it affects. If it fails and you crap your engine as a result, then the warranty won't cover the engine. This is why I'm waiting until after my warranty is up to do it.

[Gizzmo_jr]

Sounds good, I think I'll do the same at this point in time.

[BangHatch]

It does void the warranty with respect to everything that it affects. If it fails and you crap your engine as a result, then the warranty won't cover the engine. This is why I'm waiting until after my warranty is up to do it.

Not unless you have a very VERY helpful dealership to back you up! ... Like in my case... :P

[mazda lover]

Not necessarily true...

After my first engine, i converted to spin-on... And guess what... Same thing happened still.. Go figure...

Honestly, your best bet is to simply check your oil levels regularly without waiting for your maintenance interval...


So with the spin on filter did the oil leak out because of an improper instillation or the spin on filter caused an engine failure? or?
Thanks