For all the Hockey Fans!!

[WLS ZMZM]

Alright guys.... its that time of year... as the Trade Deadline approaches.
Opinions on possible moves?? How about Sundin, Tucker, Kubina and Kaberly refusing to wave their No Trade Clauses? do you guys think this hurts or helps the leafs?

To me I think Sundin showed his true colours, while he has made the comment that he wants to stay as a Captain would stay with his sinking ship, I feel his decision will hurt the leafs for the future. Had he waived his clause The leafs really could have got some great young talent to help for the future and help fix the mess that Fletcher caused in the past by getting rid of all the young talent.

As for other teams woot woot Look out habs fans get jersey #81 ready cuz here comes HOSSA!!!!

[cwp_sedan]

I think Sundin is the only Leaf with that clause that deserves to stay. Everyone else would probably worth a trade of some value. Who knows what will happen now. Maybe they can get a good deal for McCabe still...

[WLS ZMZM]

I think if he loves the city as much as he does he could have waived his clause to help build a future for the team. but thats just my opinon as a non leafs fan! As for McCabe with the salary he's being paid I don't think there are many teams who would be willing to pick him up unless they can get him cheap!

[WhiteSpeed3]

u cant blame sundin for wanting to stay a leaf till he retires

i think mccabe will wave if no trade claus just b/c no one likes him in toronto anymore

[Caz]

I have no problem with Sundin not waiving his no-trade clause, he is playing to his pay grade. On the plus for Sundin, his is a great person to mentor the young guys. He has put in his time with the city and team, so if he wants to retire a Leaf that is cool with me. Why should he be the one responsable to fix the problems created by the JFJ and Quinn, they traded away the future of the team. Mats stood by his Leafs and played out the contracts he has signed, he could have asked for a trade in the past when things were going so good.

[Cardinal Fang]

I think if he loves the city as much as he does he could have waived his clause to help build a future for the team. but thats just my opinon as a non leafs fan!

I understand what you're saying but that never works. If you love something you dedicate yourself to building it. You don't leave because someone tells you "its the right thing to do." If I had a hint that the upper brass at MLG Entertainment knew what they were doing I would have agreed with this. But they don't. And Fletcher is only around for a short term basis so he doesn't have to be around when the shit hits the fan again.

The Leafs have a notorious record of treating their Captains badly. Imagine if the Wings would have treated Stevie Y in the same manner during their lean years.

Sorry, but I don't buy it. I'm actually impressed with Sundin. He's been loyal to the Leafs and he wants to stay that we. He doesn't want to leave and land at a Stanley Cup contending team as a "rental" player. He wouldn't feel wanted after the season ended.I understand this and applaud him.

[WLS ZMZM]

See I guess not beign a leaf fan doesn't cloud my judgement... I kid I kid:chuckle The way I look at it, is he could still retire as a leaf, go to the other team, allow the leafs to get a little something since they aren't going to the playoffs this year, then come back in the summer and return to mentor and retire as a leaf. Everybody wins. I really find it kind of selfish to be honest, especially since I don't think he is done especially after the year he had. As for Mccabe the leafs would be so much better without him pylons would perform better and cost a hell of a lot less

[Cardinal Fang]

The team needs to start over. If Sundin is as valuable as they say his is then sign him up for next year otherwise they should just shut their farking mouths and let him go in the free agency market at the end of the year.

The team needs to start dumping their contracts and start fresh with new draft picks much the same way Chicago did. They are the team of the future with the young talent coming into form.

McCabe, Tucker et all......don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[WLS ZMZM]

I have to say..I agree... with you they do need to build from within and Pogge isn't the future it was Raask but oh well nice job JFJ!! As for the teams of the future Chicago is getting better but they still need someone between the pipes. In the next few years I say edmonton is gonna be a force to be reckoned with and so will Montreal and Pittsburgh. The only downside to Pittsburgh oh so much talent... and only so much cap space!

[Unoriginalusername]

leafs playoff hopes are dead so getting rid of sundin doesn't do anything then insult a captin who has been the least of the teams problems

[kid_icarus]

i agree. with most ppl here.

how is being loyal = being selfish

each person carries the game and love of the game a different way.

to sundin, it's be a leaf, die a leaf
leaving inbetween really means a difference in ones own mind.

it's like telling a husband to leave his wife for 6 months and go have an affair so that his wife can get it on with the young pool boy.

to sundin hockey isin't about BUSINESS... it's about HOCKEY

the problem is that ppl who accuse sundin of being selfish are really simply saying it's okay to be a "whor3" as long as someone gets something back in return

sorry but that's just jaded thinking of this new generation and unfortunately for those ppl sundin is a classy player and that values teamwork, loyalty, and comraederie more than any bum in a bar who have never played professional hockey other than on their xbox's at home.

not a personal offence to you wls or anything. i'm just responding to the overall comments in the media/tsn/fans on the street stuff....
like if you really value something... you're not just gonna chuck it out the window.

he knows he adds value.. why should he let other ppl treat him like trash just so he can be exploited.

[zedtech]

It's not Sundin's responsibility to fix MLSE's problem. They gave him and 4 others no trade clauses, that's too bad for them. If they didn't foresee this problem happening, then they're f*cking terrible businessmen.

Sundin's been loyal to a fault over his entire career as a Leaf. The team didn't give him anyone to play with of his calibre yet he's remained a point-per-game player and carried the team on his back many a night. Somehow, some people have labelled him selfish for being loyal and what morally makes sense to him.

To me, it's pretty selfish forcing someone to do something they don't want for their own interests and fix a mess that has nothing to do w/ said player(s). If MLSE didn't shoot themselves in the foot and give five players NTCs, the Leafs would've had one eventful Trade Deadline Day and off-season. Because of their stupidity, they have no right to blame anyone but MLSE themselves or setting the team back another 2-4 years.

Sundin's a classy individual who doesn't deserve the negative media attention he's received since the final word came down. I still can't wrap my head around how being loyal is doing the team a disservice. He was in a no-win situation and he's handled the attention and constant media pressure w/ the upmost class. Good for him! Maybe MLSE will finally change their idiotic ways after learning a lesson out of all this.

[RedRaptor]

I echo what everyone has been saying here. Good for Sundin to stay. The sad part is, the Leafs are a classless organization by trying to push him out the door for a young prospect and draft pick that won't even pan out anyways (I mean what Leafs draft pick has really panned out in the last 15 years?).

This might piss Sundin off and I can't blame him if he was to sign with another team in the offseason or just retire.

Leafs Management: This is how you reward your captain of 10+ seasons, by insulting him and trying to pimp him out for a few young bodies. This organization doesn't deserve someone like Sundin. I am really disgusted with the Leafs management about this Sundin issue.

Its not up to any player on the Leafs to fix this mess. No one put a gun to JFJ's head and said "Give me a no trade clause or else..."

JFJ is a dumbarse and he should driven out of hockey...

[WLS ZMZM]

i agree. with most ppl here.

how is being loyal = being selfish

each person carries the game and love of the game a different way.

to sundin, it's be a leaf, die a leaf
leaving inbetween really means a difference in ones own mind.

it's like telling a husband to leave his wife for 6 months and go have an affair so that his wife can get it on with the young pool boy.

to sundin hockey isin't about BUSINESS... it's about HOCKEY

the problem is that ppl who accuse sundin of being selfish are really simply saying it's okay to be a "whor3" as long as someone gets something back in return

sorry but that's just jaded thinking of this new generation and unfortunately for those ppl sundin is a classy player and that values teamwork, loyalty, and comraederie more than any bum in a bar who have never played professional hockey other than on their xbox's at home.

not a personal offence to you wls or anything. i'm just responding to the overall comments in the media/tsn/fans on the street stuff....
like if you really value something... you're not just gonna chuck it out the window.

he knows he adds value.. why should he let other ppl treat him like trash just so he can be exploited.


No worries buddy.. no offense taken. Hockey is a business... and as much as he wants to claim its about the game its bull especially when hes pulling in a multi million dollar deal. Like really let's be honest here. I agree that MLSE screwed themselves over. The sad part is that I doubt the leafs will be able to sign him since it was a slap in the face. However had they done it a while earlier in the year it might have been a little better.

I don't think being a rental player equates yourself to being a whore. Especially when Sundin deserves at least one good cup run (something the leafs can't provide). The analogy of the husband & wife was interesting but again don't think its appropriate. The fact is had Sundin waive his clause the city would have been all over him for abandoning the leafs so there was no winning for him.

There have been many players who have rented themselves out, they don't earn any more money.. so I fail to see the whole whoring yourself out part. If anything if they are determined to come back to their original team they helped them by getting some value for their play. it's not like Sundin said no outright... the man was thinking it over which tells me a situation to his liking didn't come up! Had it done so he would have been long gone. This just allows him to play out as the hero.

[kid_icarus]

right... but my analogy of husband wife is that
when you commit to something.. you committ. no offence to those contributing to the increasing divorce rates around the world...

but when you committ on a marriage, you don't jump ship to try and get your jollies up somewhere else just for the short term for the quick experience and/or so that your partner can experience some gratification out of you selling out your values

aka go get a hooker for one night
and come back the next night as if nothing ever happened

sundin is not like other players, i can't really say much more than that.
it's really his decision. sure he can go win a cup elsewhere.. but it's nto about just getting in for 20 games and win the cup....
it's about the whole experience... being a captain is about leading a team.. and going all the way with them...

how much pride would someone like sundin have by jumping ship and getting a short playoff run? nothing....
if he wins the cup... what memories does he have to go with it? nothing...
it's not always about the reward.. it's about the hard work and effort that goes into getting there.

whether he chose to or not... no one should really judge him.
ppl should just respect that he's made a decision and he's done whats best in his mind.

hockey is a business for those upstairs
not for those on the ice.
if management can't find a way to tie in the performance of players on the ice with the business... then it's their own fault.

misaligned goals = failure all the time

another issue is that why do ppl expect others to sell their values and dump their values just for the good of the company?

if my company asked me to cheat the pants off of an old lady just cuz it would make us lots of money and i would get a good portion of it.. should i do it?

you might say yes.... you might say no
obviously the situation is not this BLACK AND WHITE

but the whole point is that no one should force anyone to "throw away their values and what they care about" just for someone else.
in society nowadays we're always in some sort of constant struggle to try and "appease" everyone else... give in to peer pressure... junk like that....

sundin followed his heart and stuck to his values (which are good-hearted)

[WLS ZMZM]

It seems as though alot of the big names are dropping Darly Sutter has now said that Tanguay will not be traded which translates as "Tanguay won't waive his no trade clause". It seems the race for Hossa is gonna be interesting... same can be said for Brad Richards if he waives his NTC

[REZXPERT]

you know, i love the way everyone salivates at the idea of the Leafs loading up w/ high draft picks so they can rebuild. not sure if anyone remembers when the Leafs were sucking bad all those years - in the 80's specifically - drafted high, and drafted shit. or when they owned high draft picks and traded for old, also-ran mules that did jack-nothing in the playoffs.

as for no-trade clauses: if you're part of a union and you fight for benefits, you don't give up those benefits. the same applies to players with no-trade clauses. JFJ's fault, MLSE's fault.
they gotta live with it till Sundin, Tucker, Kubina, Kaberle & McCabe are bought out or retire..... as Leafs.

[REZXPERT]

you know, i love the way everyone salivates at the idea of the Leafs loading up w/ high draft picks so they can rebuild. not sure if anyone remembers when the Leafs were sucking bad all those years - in the 80's specifically - drafted high, and drafted shit. or when they owned high draft picks and traded for old, also-ran mules that did jack-nothing in the playoffs.

as for no-trade clauses: if you're part of a union and you fight for benefits, you don't give up those benefits. the same applies to players with no-trade clauses. JFJ's fault, MLSE's fault.
they gotta live with it till Sundin, Tucker, Kubina, Kaberle & McCabe are bought out or retire..... as Leafs.

oh, and for you Leafs fans... check this out. how many 1st round superstars can you spot?:whoa

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/teams/dr000038.html

[WLS ZMZM]

True enough.. MLSE has really screwed the team as did JFJ... however if the fans were to stop showing up to games and stop supporting the leafs changed might be made. Instead you have suits who continue to go to do business there... until the fans make some kind of statement that impacts the suits.. who run the team nothing will be changed. Even if you don't boycott the games.. boycott the concession stands they'd lose alot of money that way. It's time the leafs clean house.. get rid of everyone.. scouts everything... its time this team got blown up and try to build a contender.. there hasn't been a parade since '67 and unless major changes are made it won't be anytime soon either

[WLS ZMZM]

More news for those who are following... Forsberg has re-signed with the Avs! It's getting more and more interesting....

[cwp_sedan]

Belak officially gone to Florida for a 5th round draft pick!

Now who are we (Leafs) going to get to fight? Blake? :D

[Wild Weasel]

I suppose someone could pick up Blake and swing him around to hit people. :chuckle

[zedtech]

Belak's first game as a Panther is against the Leafs lol. Belak vs. Tucker, that'll be awesome.

[cwp_sedan]

I suppose someone could pick up Blake and swing him around to hit people. :chuckle

lol

It's a shame because I did like Belak but he barely played. This freed up around $650k or or for the team.

[Wild Weasel]

I like Belak too. He's a funny guy. I know he didn't contribute much to the scoresheet, but you still need at least one enforcer on the team to keep opponents in check, don't you? Who's it gonna be now? Tucker?? Sure... he can do it... but he shouldn't have to. He's too good a player and, while scrappy, he's hardly intimidating to the giants he'd be up against.

Maybe they're gonna try and find a new enforcer that can score now and then or something.

[cwp_sedan]

I also heard rumors of Kilger and Wellwood, but who knows at this point. 48 min left! :S

[RallyPlaya]

Trade News-------
F Federov To Washington
D Adam Foote To Colorado
G Cristobal Huet To Washington
Brian Cambell to San Jose
Prospal to Philidelphia
Just the Big ones Toronto has sn;t done anything BIG yet

[Wild Weasel]

Yet? What is there that would be big that Toronto COULD do?

Federov to Washington... now THAT is a cool move! He's well past his prime, but I'm sure he'll have a blast playing with Ovechkin.

[Unoriginalusername]

every toronto player to the minors & or other teams .... it could happen lol

[cwp_sedan]

Brad Richards gone to Dallas

[cwp_sedan]

Hal Gill gone to Pittsburg for a possible second round pick

[Wild Weasel]

every toronto player to the minors & or other teams .... it could happen lol

And then what? That doesn't help them get good young cheap talent. What they need are high draft picks.

None of their current players, with the exception of McCabe, are really overpriced. Tucker, Sundin, and Kaberle were all great trade bait to get some high picks, but none of them are hurting the team by staying.

[zedtech]

It'll help them get one of the top 7 picks in the upcoming draft. This will be the deepest draft since the 90s (top 10 speaking). I wouldn't be surprised to see Raycroft in net more and a lot more ice time to "assess" the players from the minors.

[Unoriginalusername]

And then what? That doesn't help them get good young cheap talent. What they need are high draft picks.

None of their current players, with the exception of McCabe, are really overpriced. Tucker, Sundin, and Kaberle were all great trade bait to get some high picks, but none of them are hurting the team by staying.

and risk being the worst team in the leauge? thats only a handful of points away lol so clean house and build a good team :chuckle as it is hard to be doing much worse then this past year and even last year

[cwp_sedan]

Hossa gone to Pittsburg!

[Wild Weasel]

It'll help them get one of the top 7 picks in the upcoming draft. This will be the deepest draft since the 90s (top 10 speaking). I wouldn't be surprised to see Raycroft in net more and a lot more ice time to "assess" the players from the minors.

I think they should definitely be doing this. I thought you meant what you said as a way to open up cap space next year or something.

[Wild Weasel]

Bye Bye Hal Gill.

[cwp_sedan]

Chad Kilger gone to Florida for a 3rd round pick

[Cardinal Fang]

And take McCabe with you.

[Unoriginalusername]

not enough good changes for the leafs today

[cwp_sedan]

Well they've opened up $3 million + but now we have no body that hits. Well I mean we have good 'ol Tucker. lol.

[Cardinal Fang]

Tucker is an ass.

</Extremely bitter about his year>

[cwp_sedan]

Tucker is an ass.

</Extremely bitter about his year>

Yeah...I think he needs to go even more then McCabe, so that's pretty bad lol.

[Unoriginalusername]

guess we'll have to wait a few more months for that to happen

[Wild Weasel]

Pfft! I love having Tucker on the team!

Fletcher's giving a press conference. It looks like a senile old man, and is basically conceding that we're screwed. :(

[Unoriginalusername]

i think he is a fun character but we need people who deliver the goods and tucker/mcabe aren't delivering

[Cardinal Fang]

Tucker hit his prime about 3 years ago. Injuries and lack of performance have hampered his career. I remember he would skate into a corner and scare the shit out of players because he hit them so hard. Now....he just skates into the corners and misses the check in about 70% of the cases. He's a joke.

[ShortBus]

fletcher is just doing what wayne embry did (create cap room) before colangelo took over.

[tinythetiger]

The leaf's biggest problem is that nobody even wants the players that they have XD
IMO the biggest winner out of all this was washington. Huet + federov. kinda wonder who's got the montreal net now though. Pittsburgh + hossa will be fun to watch as well.
What's ridiculous though is that the leafs are only 6 pts out of the playoffs (8 if you count the extra game they played over the teams ahead of them)... It would be even more ridiculous if they cracked the playoffs... or if they purposely flop and then NOT get a high pick in the draft lottery

[tweak_s]

out of the 4.. Sundin has been performing well enough and been loyal enough to deserve to choose. Especially with how hes put up with playing with less than his calibre players. I mean, I'm sure the paycheques a huge reason to stay but at the same time, when you give a certain amount, you deserve an amount given back.

[tinythetiger]

the leafs better sign at least toskala + kaberle (who's their only good defender) as they both have a long future ahead of them. + sundin if his salary does not get in the way of restructuring.

[WLS ZMZM]

Being a hab's fan I was a little shocked about Huet going to Washington especially for a 2nd round pick... As for Hossa not going to Montreal I was kind of disappointed but we'll be fine without him! As for tending the nets.. they have Price and Halak. Two youngsters but two guys who have proved they can hang with the big boys..... I think Dallas won trade deadline... they got richards... and really didn't give up anything huge... I also think Colorado did well also.

Feel bad that the pens traded what tehy did for Hossa as he won't re-sign in Pitsburgh.. and now that he's hurt with an MCL sprain he couldn't even make it through one game, Ottawa needed to make a splash and Lapointe is hardly what they needed I was really expecting Emery to be wearing a new jersey by the end of the day.

[RallyPlaya]

The Habs are a Good team.... but my fav team is the Devils and the one word to how they will win the Stanley Cup = Brodeur..... Detroit is Just straight dominating and if i had to put my money somewhere it would be with them. Leafs need Colangilo as there GM lol they basically did nothing @ the trade deadline the leafs have always been an old team and i want to see them aim for youth

[WLS ZMZM]

detroit won't win the cup this year with Foppa and Foote back in Colorado, Sakic Smyth & Statsny back and Theodore playing well I think the cup is going back to Denver.... and as good as Brodeur is.. he's peaked... and he doesn't really have that great of a team in front of him.

[Caz]

The cup is staying where it is.
It is going to take one hell of a team to beat the Ducks in a 7 games series.

[mleblond]

yeah ducks 2 years in a row....east is up fro grabs really...sens are still strong but murray will have to do a miracle, habs are above and beyond expectations, pens we will see and yes Brodeur can and will make the difference in playoffs...last year he was not at the best of his game.

[WLS ZMZM]

ducks won't win again... they aren't as good as they were last year... last year they looked unstoppable.. this year they look human.... as for the east... the Sens are on their way down, the team just isn't playing... not for paddock not for murray not for anyone. The habs are definitely above everyones expectations but I doubt a cup appearance is in the cards they'll make a run though. I'm really thinking Dallas or Colorado in the West and the Pens or Habs in the east.

No matter what happens the Cup is staying in the West that I will agree with.. but I don't see the ducks winning it again

[WLS ZMZM]

and for Brodeur, he's a great goalie... but he's like Favre you can only do so much as one man... especially when your team isn't really helping you.

[mleblond]

the team can't be that bad if they are 1st in the east....Dallas got stronger for sure 5 point game for richards...

[WLS ZMZM]

well the east realyl isn't that strong... if you really think about the top teams in the east really rank about 5th or 6th in the west. The west is the powerhouse! True enough they are in first. But it's way to close and they have been juggling around within the top 3 even though they are 7-1-2 in their last ten. They are not a stanley cup contender, and ar far from the team they had a while ago when they won the cup.

[WLS ZMZM]

The one thing I think the NHL needs to fix and fast is the way teams are ranked... carolina being a third seed with 71 points is kind of pathetic! Especially when the 8th seeded team in the west has more points then that.

[mleblond]

so your saying the west has less parity then the east. I can buy that. but New jersey has a very good coach and that can do the difference as well in a game, believe it or not. I personally hate New jersey but Brodeur (in his element) + trap can easily = Cup.

And DUCKS are AS strong as last year so watch out they will defend the cup, which doesn't happen too often anymore...

[WLS ZMZM]

Yeah I do... The west is much stronger then the east... even though there is a cap in effect... they still seem to be more talented overall of course this changes all the time... the trap isn't quite as effective as it once was... and as for Brodeur... if you've watched him recently... sometimes he looks stellar other times looks shaky... and again.. I don't think the cup will be returning to southern california this year I know Colorado is in 8th place but I really think they are going to turn this around with eveyone coming back

[Caz]

Colorado improved at the deadline but I think they are too old to be able to make it deep in the playoffs.

The Ducks are rounding into form look at their record for the last months. Their defence is too strong to be looked past. It isn't how you start the season it is how you finish.

[zedtech]

It isn't how you start the season it is how you finish.
Should be interesting to see where Ottawa finishes at the end of the season :pop

[mleblond]

Should be interesting to see where Ottawa finishes at the end of the season :pop

I will laugh really hard if they don't make the playoffs!!! The east is really tight in the standings. No one is running away with it.

[tinythetiger]

You know what was really surprising to me? the leafs are .500 lol! I guess the new CBA has helped to make teams more even. The teams in the east move up and down in packs, it will NOT be fun if a team is tied for 8th place in points and doesn't make it to the playoffs.

[WLS ZMZM]

yeah Richards looked really good in his first game with the big D... he skated very well with that line... Dallas is going to turn some heads... I agree with the whole Anaheim thing they have a very strong team.. but they have a lot of older guys... true they are still talented.... but Colorado isn't really that old.... they have alot of young players who have great potential I think the west is going to be interesting to see who gets through to the finals the way everything is in the east just makes the whole remaining part of the season interesting.

2 games down for Price as the #1 and he's looked good in both... and well what to say Huet's first game with Washington results in a shutout... I have to say I think it stinks his using his habs helmet and just had the habs symbol replaced... looks kind of bootleg!