HELP Please - NEED ADVICE!!

[kapK]

I purchased a NEW 2005 Mazda 3 in August of 05'. In spring of this year I took my car to a GM dealer for an appraisal for trade-in where I found out my NEW car was in accident in June of 05', 3 months prior to purchasing the car. The accident was worth 4-5k in damages.

I contact the dealer I purchased the vehicle from and request to return the vehicle and walk away from my lease... and they inform me that NOT WAY CAN I DO THAT but admit that 'YES the vehicle was in an accident' and for my troubles they will offer me a 'FREE detailing' or they will take the car as a trade in but give me full value of 12k instead of the 8k the car in now worth with the accident on its record.

I have contacted OMVIC about this issue but they are of very little help right now, as I can never get a hold of the service rep on my case.

I am considering a claim in small claims court for the 4k in damages + interest over the 3 years of payments + return of the car.

Can anyone give me there take on this situation? I can give more details if needed.

thanks.

kapK

[ds2chan]

wow.

1) from which dealership did you buy your car from??
2) what happened in the accident?? and how did it happen??

my first thought would be to go get yourself a lawyer. I would imagine you'd get a few thousand out of it (like you mentioned already).

good luck in whatever happens. also, I'd consider the free detailing a kick to the crotch.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

you've had the car for 3 years already...plus you don't own the car (mazda's credit/finance does, they're just renting it to you) so highly unlikely you'll see any retribution if you do decide to pursue legal action.

the car's a lease, why are you concerned about trade-in value? walk away from the car when the lease is done (how much longer?). "trading in" a lease is never a money winning situation unless the trade in value is worth more than the remaining payments+residual.

cars are often damaged during transport and fixed before being sold...you just happened to be the poor sap that got one.

if the car was registered to someone else (and not mazda or the dealership) before you, then you *may* have the slightest of chances but, it was never asked if the car was in an accident (rightly so since it is assumed a new car is unmolested) so they weren't obligated to tell.

you won't see the $4k because you never had to pay that in the first place...and, you're not obligated to keep the car at the end of the lease so you're not necessarily out $4000 on a trade-in anyway.

so is it worth your time and legal fees? probably not

[Noisy Crow]

I purchased a NEW 2005 Mazda 3 in August of 05'.

I contact the dealer I purchased the vehicle from and request to return the vehicle and walk away from my lease...

Did you BUY the car or are you LEASING it?

If you bought the car, they owe you money to compensate for the reduced value of the vehicle.

If you are leasing... the best you could hope for is a reduction in the buy-out residual. The leasing company, as the legal owner of the vehicle and therefore the ones out-of-pocket, could go after the dealer for compensation.

[SonicBoy]

you've had the car for 3 years already...plus you don't own the car (mazda's credit/finance does, they're just renting it to you) so highly unlikely you'll see any retribution if you do decide to pursue legal action.

the car's a lease, why are you concerned about trade-in value? walk away from the car when the lease is done (how much longer?). "trading in" a lease is never a money winning situation unless the trade in value is worth more than the remaining payments+residual.

cars are often damaged during transport and fixed before being sold...you just happened to be the poor sap that got one.

if the car was registered to someone else (and not mazda or the dealership) before you, then you *may* have the slightest of chances but, it was never asked if the car was in an accident (rightly so since it is assumed a new car is unmolested) so they weren't obligated to tell.

you won't see the $4k because you never had to pay that in the first place...and, you're not obligated to keep the car at the end of the lease so you're not necessarily out $4000 on a trade-in anyway.

so is it worth your time and legal fees? probably not

Well put. Coudn't have been put any better. Not worth the hassle. Walk away from the car at end of Lease.

[Olestra]

I agree about it not worth the hassle if it is a lease but the principle is they never should have sold you the car without telling you about the damages and the title. That is ethically wrong.
At the time, even though you are supposedly leasing, how did they know you didn't plan to buy out the car at the end of the lease?

[kapK]

Hi, thanks for the reply's.

Yes, this is a lease, but here are my issues with what has been said.

Originally the car was worth somewhere in the 26-27k range, After the accident the car was immediately worth 22k... I should have only been paying interest on 22k, not the full amount. No?

"cars are often damaged during transport and fixed before being sold...you just happened to be the poor sap that got one."

Really, so other people pull the #vin record and see there car had 4-5k in damage and just think that are the poor sap?


It's pretty obvious that MajesticBlueNTO actually works at Whitby Mazda, how does he know all the details of this case?

Anyway i want out of this lease early, and Im gonna make it happen:)

[06Touring3]

Hi, thanks for the reply's.

Yes, this is a lease, but here are my issues with what has been said.

Originally the car was worth somewhere in the 26-27k range, After the accident the car was immediately worth 22k... I should have only been paying interest on 22k, not the full amount. No?

"cars are often damaged during transport and fixed before being sold...you just happened to be the poor sap that got one."

Really, so other people pull the #vin record and see there car had 4-5k in damage and just think that are the poor sap?


It's pretty obvious that MajesticBlueNTO actually works at Whitby Mazda, how does he know all the details of this case?

Anyway i want out of this lease early, and Im gonna make it happen:)

not to burst your bubble...

but Majestic didn't say anything that could suggest he works for Whitby Mazda...he just made general speculative statements....

but i have to agree with you in that you shouldn't have been paying interest on the full amount....but i'mnot sure what you can do about that

but...it's a lease....wait it out and get rid of it....

[Noisy Crow]

You don't pay interest on the full amount... you pay interest on the value that you consume by using the vehicle. It really comes down to the what the vehicle was worth when you leased it and the residual value. Subtract the residual value from the initial worth, and that is what you are paying, plus the cost of tying up the residual for a number of years.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

Hi, thanks for the reply's.

It's pretty obvious that MajesticBlueNTO actually works at Whitby Mazda, how does he know all the details of this case?



that quote has to be the funniest thing i've read in my 4+ years on this board.

do you know for a fact that a VIN check on your car shows a $4000 accident? have you verified it from a place like www.carproof.com or are you just going by the word of a dealership (whose best interest is giving you the lowest amount possible for your trade-in)?

as long as the car wasn't registered with the MTO or insured prior to you purchasing it (basically plated), the accident shouldn't show up on a VIN check. if it was plated before, then you weren't technically sold a new car but a demo.

if whitby mazda knowingly sold you a demo (with an accident on record) as a new car then, by all means, fight them for what you feel is right.

I'm not the only one that knows NEW cars are damaged in transport (http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080621053341AANMpXv) ...my car could've been one of those, who knows

cliff's notes: is there a documented record that 1) the car was in an accident and 2) the amount of damages in said accident? does a VIN check on carproof.com (pay the $30 to get the result) show an accident of $4000 in damages? if so, you may have a case. if not, good luck.

download the free lease calculator spreadsheet from here (http://www.carbuyingtips.com/lease.htm) to see what money is involved... "interest" in a lease is not the same as interest in a loan.

[kapK]

Hi, sorry if i came off a bit ignorant earlier, it is monday morning and all.

Yes, i have paid the $30 for a car proof vin check, and yes it lists a 4500 dollar accident. I was the first owner of the car.

Legally does the dealership not have to disclose any accidents on the vehicle to an unsuspecting customer? and since the accident is more than 3k in damages.

Does anyone else think I should be able to just return the vehicle and walk away from my lease?

[S.F.W.]

Hi, sorry if i came off a bit ignorant earlier, it is monday morning and all.

Yes, i have paid the $30 for a car proof vin check, and yes it lists a 4500 dollar accident. I was the first owner of the car.

Legally does the dealership not have to disclose any accidents on the vehicle to an unsuspecting customer? and since the accident is more than 3k in damages.

Does anyone else think I should be able to just return the vehicle and walk away from my lease?

I don't think the dealership is obligated to disclose anything, unless you specifically ask, and get it in writing.
I think you are still on the hook for the balance of the lease.

[Swerny]

you won't be able to just walk away early without paying a penalty and you cetrainly won't get your money back.

Either turn it in at the end of your lease for them to deal with it or take the $12K offer.

[Flagrum_3]

I'm no lawyer, but I believe Dealers have the obligation by law to disclose if a vehicle has suffered damage!.

Best advice is to contact a Lawyer that deals in these issues and clarify what rights you have in this matter.


_3

[Wild Weasel]

I don't think they'd have to necessarily disclose if there was damage to a new car and it was repaired. I mean, where do you draw the line? I'm sure cars are scratched and dinged all the time and then repaired. They probably don't even keep record of most of it, much less have to declare it.

I DO think that if the car was a demo and had been in an accident then that's a whole different story. I believe this guy definitely has a case and should get some compensation.

[KenYork]

I don't think they'd have to necessarily disclose if there was damage to a new car and it was repaired. I mean, where do you draw the line? I'm sure cars are scratched and dinged all the time and then repaired. They probably don't even keep record of most of it, much less have to declare it.

I DO think that if the car was a demo and had been in an accident then that's a whole different story. I believe this guy definitely has a case and should get some compensation.

I think they should only if the accident is recorded, caus it's a loss in value of the car if ever decided for resale. Imagine you wanted to sell you speed3 and you find out when you get a report saying you're car has been in an accident is valued $4k less than what you expected to get back. If the accident was never recorded, who would know, who would care, you'd still maintain the value.

[Wild Weasel]

Exactly!!

[kapK]

Hi all.

"If the accident was never recorded, who would know, who would care, you'd still maintain the value."

Yes the car was sold to me as a demo, but still NEW. It had 1,000 km on it at the time of purchase , and yes it is a lease.

By law the dealers MUST disclose any accidents on the car(this accident was recorded when u pull the cars vin#), and I believe anything over 3k can be taken to court.

The thing that really grinds my gears about Whitby Mazda(and the fact im dealing with OMVIC right now, and thinking legal action) was the fact that at first they seemed like they wanted help get out of this lease when i came to them with my story.
I was nice and not upset with them - all i wanted was a fair compensation deal for my car. But instead of helping me they tried to get me into a 72 month financing contract of a used 06' mazda 3 at the same price as my current lease witch expires in 22 months. And when i told him he was on crack he offered me a free detailing.
All i want is what is fair and they are not taking any responsibility for selling me car that was damaged significantly prior to my purchase.

For me there is only 2 options to a happy ending.

1. They take the car back and let me out of this lease 22 months early.
2. They deduct 4-5k from the buy out option at the end of the lease.

Does anyone else see another solution i may be missing. I realize option #3 will likely be me keeping the car the full lease and recieveing sero compensation.

[ds2chan]

I agree with #2. I don't think they would go with #1. If they did I'd be surprised.

Since you were told that the car was a demo to begin with, did you get some sort of discount already?? Usually demo cars are sold for less (not sure how much but you could probably talk them down).

[KenYork]

They could always put you on a new lease on a 2009 at a partial discount and null your previous lease.

[BETRTHNU]

a guy I know had a Subaru WRX which had the same issue. He sued the pants off of Subaru. He got a new car, plus Subaru had to cover his court costs.

[sudz]

Quite Frankly, The terms of the lease was based on a new car, with a set value. They had breached the contract/agreement with you before you had even signed! In my eyes (not that it matters) the entire aggreement should be nullified - Everything from payments to INSURANCE value, as i'm sure you declared the vehicle as NEW when you purchased insurance, and gave the insurance company the proper book value for the car as well.

I am no expert, but I'm pretty sure you have a resonably strong case here.

[Noisy Crow]

Jeff (TheBiz) is back on-line... you might want to PM him and ask his advice.

[Jeff-TheBiz]

If the repair is done paid for by an insurance company then the damage will show up on the vehicles abstract and the damage must be disclosed to the client. I have sold(leased mostly) quite a few 'hail' vehicles at dead cost with free wearcare (to cover minor paint issues that might creep up at the end).

If the vehicle is repaired out of pocket by the dealer, and not disclosed to an insurance company, a less than scrupulous dealer may keep that a secret.

[kevcol74]

Do you have your original "sales agreement" handy? Make sure they didn't sneak something in dealing with the accident. If they did, OMVIC won't touch it. I just went through that with a used car dealer, where I was told it wa a "minor accident", yet carproof showed me it was a $7500 repair on a $8500 car... thats unofficially a "salvage car" they sold me. But, because they snuck it on my purchase agreement, they absolved themselves from OMVIC's wrath. However, I did have a case for small claims. The car was fixed well, I couldn't see the major damage that was fixed, but it was the principle of the situation.
It is the legal obligation of the dealership to know the history of the cars they sell, and to disclose all known information to the customer, whether asked directly or not. You have a case my friend, lease or not, as had that information been known to you before you signed the agreement, it would have directly affected your decision on buying that car.
What can you get out of it? That I couldn't tell you, I got screwed in my situation, and dumped the car before I wasted my time in small claims... and then bought my 3 shortly after! lol
Oh, and for the record, avoid Vision Fine Cars on Steeles.... unethical bastards....

[laksman91]

any updates?

[5_Alive]

You have a case. By law, a dealer or private seller must disclose any information prior to a person making a purchase/lease.

When I bought my 2006 Explorer used, they told me it was an "Executive Lease". When I went to do the trade-in for the 3, yea, def. different story. It was a bloody rental, which had also been in a roll-over, but the accident part was never shown on record or CarProof, they hid the situation.

I went to bring the truck back, it had only been 2.5 months, they tried for days on end to give me anything, cash back, lifetime services for the truck, different cars, etc. Finally, I paid the $500, had a lawyer make up a release statement, and BAM! The next day, I returned it.

GET A LAWYER!

Bring that shit back, get your money back, plus insurance costs, interest, you can and should.
You leased a BRAND NEW VEHICLE. It shouldn't have been in that kind of situation to begin with, let alone they didn't tell you. Now, they get to buy it back at full cost, no matter what.
BUT, if its ANYWHERE on your agreement that the car was in an accident, you have nothing to go with.
GL, keep us posted.

[Jeff-TheBiz]

any updates?


Yeah really...

I have heard in the past of a few dealers (other manufacturers as well) that are not disclosing damage, but recently because of the massive hail months back, it has been getting worse.

Ask the specific question. "Was this car involved in any hail damage or has it been repaired in any way."

It may or may not appear on any report that is done on the car.. UCDA / CarProof or CarFax. But get a paint/body repair guy to look at it, and he will be able to tell you right away.