Home Theatre Question

[firstmazda]

I just started doing research trying to find a reasonably priced home theatre.
I'm looking for a receiver and speaker set, not necessarily the same brand.

any recommendations?

one question i have though is, i know the PS3 has onboard decoding of DolbyHD and trueHD audio and such,
now, if I pass thru a receiver with 7.1 capabilities BUT does not decode in HD,
will the audio still play in HD since the PS3 decoded it? or will i lose that signal?
you get what i'm trying to get at??:bang

I don't have a big room, but i'm looking for something "future friendly" that isn't on the cusp of being out of date (ie. 5.1), and can be upgraded for my next house.

Thanks!
Ray

[kevcol74]

Personally I'm running a Yamaha Amp (6.1) and converting over to Paradign Speakers... I prefer the Paradign since they are canadian made. If you want to go high end, look into Clipsch speakers, and maybe Harmon Kardon receivers.
Denon is also a good name for the receivers.... just do your research and you'll be fine. As far as the decoding, just use an optical cable from the PS3 (I think it has one.... don't have a PS3 personally), and you'll have good sound. If its HDMI, as long as the receiver will switch HDMI for you, it will also have the right sound. PS3 is Blue Ray is it not?

Oh, and most of my stuff came from EHR (East Hamilton Radio) or Natural Sound in Kitchener.

[Flagrum_3]

I'm also running a Yamaha Receiver with Energy speakers and Mirage sub; both speaker brands are also Canadian made and comparable to the Paradign.

Adding to the list; check out the new series of Onkyo receivers they're pretty awesome.


_3

[kevcol74]

I'm also running a Yamaha Receiver with Energy speakers and Mirage sub; both speaker brands are also Canadian made and comparable to the Paradign.

Adding to the list; check out the new series of Onkyo receivers they're pretty awesome.


_3

+1 on the Onkyo. There is another good Canadian speaker : PSB

[firstmazda]

I've been looking at Onkyos but their cdn prices are soo much higher than US prices.

I was looking at this (http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=BDL10003147&catid=10551) package at FS.

Harman Kardon AVR154
from Cnet:


Key features of the Harman Kardon 154:

* 5.1 channels, 30 watts per channel
* Three HDMI 1.3a inputs
* Standard Dolby Digital and DTS decoding
* Two component video inputs
* Five digital audio inputs (two optical, three coaxial)
* Source input renaming
* No onscreen display with HDMI, standard-def menus


with Klipsch Cinema 5 system and 10"sub.

$999

[kevcol74]

That doesn't look too bad.... Try and make it into a real audio store, like EHR, and talk to them first... Then with solid intel, make your decision. Looks like a good deal, but most FS employees don't know their heads from their asses, so keep that in mind... Also, you can cross reference models other stores carry to FS, alot of times they just have different model number but are essentially the same. Yamaha is notorious for that, the Brick and outside knowledgeable audio stores.... same recievers, different models numbers... and usually different prices!

Also, keep in mind the receiver is only 5.1.... I've had mine for 6 years and its 6.1! 7.1 THX is ideal...

[firstmazda]

thanks for the great tips guys. You guys all sound like experts.

i'm wanting 7.1, but i'm thinking, realistically, even in the future, am i gonna have money to spend on all those speakers?
That's why i'm trying to figure out is i need a receiver that decodes in HD if the PS3 already does that.

It's hard to determine my needs and wants and put it on a budget.

[Walrus]

kevcol - a regular optical cable will lose the Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD sound. It will be regular Dolby Digital/DTS. You either need HDMI, or 8 separate RCA cables. But I don't think the PS3 has the 8 component outputs.

firstmazda - if you get a receiver that doesn't decode TrueHD/DTS-HD, you are buying one that is already out of date. That said, if you decode in the PS3, the HDMI will pass it to the receiver, so you won't lose the HD audio.

[Flagrum_3]

Do yourself a favour and stay away from Harman Kardon, they are notorious for overheating! ....believe me.Onkyo and Yami's are a much better choice.

Also try places like Stereo Factory in Thornhill or G&G electronics in Scarborough.


_3

[firstmazda]

firstmazda - if you get a receiver that doesn't decode TrueHD/DTS-HD, you are buying one that is already out of date. That said, if you decode in the PS3, the HDMI will pass it to the receiver, so you won't lose the HD audio.

yah... goes back to the budget thing.
i figure if the PS3 can decode it, it'll save me a bit of money.

[Walrus]

I'm running an old Harman Kardon AVR325. It was reviewed as one of the best in its time (only a few years old). Thing weighs a ton. I picked it up on sale as a non-current (new but 1 year old) for $450, retail $1199.

If you are going HK, wait for the 254 to go on sale with a speaker package. It's more current. The 1xx series are usually just the previous years technology, so they are basically out of date from the start.

[Noisy Crow]

www.digitalhome.ca is a great resource for Home Theatre questions

[Walrus]

Do yourself a favour and stay away from Harman Kardon, they are notorious for overheating!

Do you have first hand experience with this? They run hot, because they have a huge power supply, because they are capable of driving all channels to the advertised wattage at all freqencies with low distortion. Most others instead choose to trick the consumer by driving the channels with only 1 tone/frequency, allowing them to advertise a higher wattage.

If you are just using it for blasting movies, don't worry about the heat. I've only heard the fan speed up a few times. If you like to blast music for long periods at high volume, the heat might become an issue.

[Flagrum_3]

Do you have first hand experience with this? They run hot, because they have a huge power supply, because they are capable of driving all channels to the advertised wattage at all freqencies with low distortion. Most others instead choose to trick the consumer by driving the channels with only 1 tone/frequency, allowing them to advertise a higher wattage.

If you are just using it for blasting movies, don't worry about the heat. I've only heard the fan speed up a few times. If you like to blast music for long periods at high volume, the heat might become an issue.

Yes I do! I worked for several years in the business and whilst other mofo's would always push the HKs because there was a larger mark up on them!!.I would steer people to other more reliable brands and guess what the 'highest returns' was always the HK's and the main problem(s) was always due to overheating.....the proof is in the pudding!

Personally, I've had a Yamaha 7 channel 5.1 Receiver for 13 years now (I'm due for a new one but only because of features), I run the unit all the time (mostly music) and at pretty good levels, and I'm running it into 6 ohm speakers!.......I've never had a problem and I get absolute audio quality sound.

Oh and the wattage? It's rated @ 20-20khz +/- 3db with .005 distortion (ALL Channels Driven). :)


_3

[Wild Weasel]

thanks for the great tips guys. You guys all sound like experts.

i'm wanting 7.1, but i'm thinking, realistically, even in the future, am i gonna have money to spend on all those speakers?
That's why i'm trying to figure out is i need a receiver that decodes in HD if the PS3 already does that.

It's hard to determine my needs and wants and put it on a budget.

Any new receiver you get should be able to decode the signals you want. Having the PS3 do the decoding is only for when you want to output sound from the PS3, such as when hooking the sound directly into a TV or something. Generally, you'll use an optical cable to connect the PS3 to your receiver. That will send the digital signal over to the receiver and that's where it will be decoded.

As for 7.1... wanting that has far less to do with money and far more to do with whether or not you actually have a proper place to put all those speakers. It's my understanding that most people will be hard pressed to get much benefit beyond a typical 5.1 setup and frankly, most movies only have 5.1 soundtracks anyway.

My system at home is a 6.1 setup and I have no idea whether that center rear channel provides any real benefit. I can probably count on one hand the number of dvd's I have that actually support it, and I've got a lot of dvd's.

7.1 gets rid of the center rear, and adds side channels. Of course, if you don't have enough room behind your seating area to put the rear speakers as far back as the front ones are forward of you, then side channels become a bit of a moot point anyway.

[Chuckie]

Depends on your budget.

Reasonably priced receiver with dtsHD and trueHD capability
Pioneer VSX1018, Yamaha HTR-6160, Onkyo TX-SR606, H/K 254.

Speakers, the klipsch you are looking at is ok, a bit bright for me. There is an energy set, nice warm sound but the sub sucks. The H/K set is alright I suppose, and the cheapo polk set is garbage don't bother.

for a bit more, I'd go and buy bookshelves that are on sale and build it.

a pair of bookshelves at $200 x 2
a center channel $200
and a sub, around $250 if you can get a deal on it.
then add your own dtsHD ready receiver and you're done.

$1350 + tax. (is that too much?)

If you decide you want to look further into this, shoot me a pm Ray.

[TheProfessor]

www.digitalhome.ca is a great resource for Home Theatre questions

+1

Also check out www.canuckaudiomart.com not just for the buy sell section, but the forums section as well. They're a little more hardcore with home audio and video, but definately great info nonetheless.

[06Touring3]

+1

Also check out www.canuckaudiomart.com not just for the buy sell section, but the forums section as well. They're a little more hardcore with home audio and video, but definately great info nonetheless.

damn you guys (Biz and Noisy) I was going to suggest both of them lol

[SW20 MR2]

Since the PS3 decodes the lossless audio codecs, you don't necessarily need to get a receiver that decodes them. Most receivers will be able to accept the PCM signal sent by the PS3.



one question i have though is, i know the PS3 has onboard decoding of DolbyHD and trueHD audio and such,
now, if I pass thru a receiver with 7.1 capabilities BUT does not decode in HD,
will the audio still play in HD since the PS3 decoded it? or will i lose that signal?
you get what i'm trying to get at??:bang

[SW20 MR2]

According to people on AVS Forum, Onkyo receivers are the ones that are notorious for overheating. If anything HK is known for a terrific sound, but they always release receivers that are buggy. I was going to buy the HK 254, but I didn't because they were experiencing sound problems with using a PS3. Those have since been fixed.


Do yourself a favour and stay away from Harman Kardon, they are notorious for overheating! ....believe me.Onkyo and Yami's are a much better choice.

[Flagrum_3]

According to people on AVS Forum, Onkyo receivers are the ones that are notorious for overheating. If anything HK is known for a terrific sound, but they always release receivers that are buggy. I was going to buy the HK 254, but I didn't because they were experiencing sound problems with using a PS3. Those have since been fixed.

I didn't say anything about sound quality! and I'm not talking second person here! I'm talking from personal experience and dealing with numerous customers whom had purchased the HKs and returned them due to problems.I think I would have better experience then individuals that had purchased the unit on how they perform verse other brands!!....even our display units we had would overheat on occasion lol....so I stand by my statement.

As for the Onkyo's, thats the first I ever heard of overheating problems! ....I wonder how many of those people would actually be able to recognize the signs of a 'over-heating amp'


_3

[bhrm]

My own basement, Pioneer 900series non Elite, forgot the model # but I got it half price tax in. JBL Northridge Fronts and Centre, Bose 301 rear, JBL 10" sub.

JBLs are loud and bang on, great for movies, does not do anything great for music.

my uncle's basement which i put together: Yamaha something high end, MB Quart(?) fronts, Klipsh Centre, Tannoy Front Presence, forgot what was middle sides, bose 301 rears, yamaha subwoofer (best sub ever!!)

in summary
2 front, 1 centre, 4 rear, 1 sub, 2 environment presence (THX thing)

Go 7.1 and start off 5.1 and build your way through. Definitely look into used speakers too, lots of great deals especially that we're in a recession.

Speakers I think is a matter of personal taste. Klipsh (i can never spell it..) I like for movies. JBL is meh, but gets the job done. I find PSB to be somewhat comparable to JBL but comes in cheaper. Bose = overpriced, stay away!

If you want absolute best, i think the store is called Sound Designs at the Distillery. All high end stuff.

I get my stuff from HDTV-Bamburgh Circle at Warden and steeles. Awesome deals all the time.

[SW20 MR2]

On AVS Forums, these are some of most hardcore audio- and video-philes that you'll ever see. They certainly know what they're talking about.

That isn't to say that Onkyo isn't good. They are good products, but you just need to make sure that they're well-ventilated.



As for the Onkyo's, thats the first I ever heard of overheating problems! ....I wonder how many of those people would actually be able to recognize the signs of a 'over-heating amp'


_3

[Flagrum_3]

That isn't to say that Onkyo isn't good. They are good products, but you just need to make sure that they're well-ventilated.


Like any high powered amp!


_3

[Fobio]

I consider myself an audiophile, but one who has other priorities in life now rather than a $5000+ stereo...and I hope you don't need me to qualify my experience and insight...but let's just say I once had a full Phoenix Gold/Image Dynamic's car audio system w/ Horn-Loaded Compression Drivers, etc...won some awards...

Anyway...my priorities were a decent enough system with a sub, at low cost, good quality, and small enough size to fit in my condo...which also accepts optical/digital input...

My choice: Logitech's ZX-5500...it's an older design that used to be $600+ for a 5.1 system w/ a 10" sub...not the greatest system out there, but I also scored it on a Dell Days' Deal for $199 + tax SHIPPED (watch for it this X'mas). It more than satisfies my needs for PS3 gaming and watching downloaded and Blu-Ray sources...

The way I see it, to do it right with a receiver, amp/processors, speakers, wires, etc, I'll be looking at at least $1500+...that's a lot of track tires and gas. :)

[Malcolm991]

Check this guy out on ebay.ca, AR Electronics and Sound. I purchased a Yamaha 7.1 receiver from them for $250 new in box. They have other deals on different items but they deal with alot of Yamaha. Pick up is in Mississauga!

[eguiyab]

Hey firstmazda.

I've actually just gone through a brand new setup and know exactly what your feeling. I consider myself an audio junkie and have been surrounded by lots of quality audio since i was a kid.

First off, no one can tell you that system/setup x is better than y. Its all a matter of personal taste in music. One may produce the awesome highs and another may produce mids and lows better. All i can say is listen listen listen. Best bet, take one of you favorite CD's and play it at about the same volume on all speakers and systems. Listen to a particular section that you know and that you like.

A few things might help narrow the search down....
1. whats the budget??
2. any current usable equipment in the home already?
3. looking for towers?? or wanna stick with discrete satellite speakers?

As far as your questions go.... Yes the PS3 does have on board decoding. What you do have to do however is ensure that in the options menu that you enable all the decoders. And as counter intuitive as it seems set the audio output to "PCM". By doing so the PS3 will decode all HD audio and output it as UNCOMPRESSED audio.

Since, the PS3 does all the decoding... No you do not need a receiver that can decode the HD audio, but most likely and most recommended that you do pick one up that does. The reason being, is that in the long run you may wish to not use the PS3 as your blu-ray player... you wanna be covered. Also, if there may be in the future any other audio source that could stream HD audio. Your receiver could decode it.

Future friendly??? Honestly, depending on how long you really on keeping this setup. I would still recommend a 5.1 setup. And this is coming from someone who runs 7.1 on a 7.2 capable system.

Why??? because realistically, there isn't any audio or a significant amount of blu-ray movies that output 7.1. The blu-rays that do have 7.1.... aren't that great and also the outputed sound to the "extra" channels is so insignificant and minuscule that it would not impact your listening... if you even notice it.

By the time all movies IMO start going 7.1 standard, it may be time to upgrade your system anyway. Yeah, my 7.2 might last till that point... but with tech moving so fast, it most likely wont keep up with the cheapest 7.1 of that time.

Space wise as well... running 7.1 requires ALOT of speakers. If space is an issue, skip it. I run a total of 10 speakers. 1 Centre, 2 Fronts, 2 Presence, 2 Rears, 2 Rear Back.

If your starting from scratch, its better to invest in less speakers of better quality than to just pick up all the speakers to run 7.1. you can always add speakers later...
I always say invest in an great centre speaker, especially if you use your home theater to watch tv. The centre does the most amount of work and can really affect the whole listening experience. A great centre can cover for poor fronts... but good fronts can never cover for a poor centre.

I personally run a Yami HTR6160. Not super high end by any means, but it does get the job done. I've run many Sony's, Technic, Denon, Yami's and Harmon Kardon's. I personally like the Yami and run 3 in the house. They seem to last a while, easy to use and for the price, tend to have may excellent features. The Denon's and HK's I had were great, but just seemed under featured for the price... and realistically didn't out preform or out do the others. Sony's and Technic's did the job.

As far as speakers go... I personally run a huge mix through out the house. Klipsch, Tanget (made by Klipsch), Bose 4.2/301/201, Paradigm, Polk Audio and Mission.
They all have a different sound and purpose. At present I would not re-recommend Bose. They are great, but many companies have stepped up their game and are very comparable. My personal favorites or Polks, Missions and PSB. They all have a very Rich sound with not so crazy High's. Have a listen and see what you like.

I have heard of, but do not have any personal experience with KEF speakers. They recently won a few audio awards and I have seen them around.... they look nice (satellite) but i have not ever heard them up close and personal. Some of their lower end stuff is reasonably priced in comparison to some brands and use the same setup/tech.

Anyway... i hope that helps a bit and feel free to ask me any questions if you want.

[firstmazda]

Wow,

thanks for all the great tips guys.

I'm gonna check out the guy on ebay too.

Egui - dude, forget my system, can I just watch movies at your place instead!??! That's a crazy setup.


I got bad news tho... wifey just told me she wants to go away again in January. Might just have to postpone my theatre budget again!

This is turning into a pretty good thread tho.
What other setups you guys have?