strut bar meet at yorkdale

[casperwonder]

Hi guys, just pick up a g-force strut bar from Rick. O yeah, we pick the right day for the installation -20c. Besides the extreme cold condition, it was fun meeting all the TM3 members. Love the strut bar, I also got my HID & angel eyes install by Dan. Can't wait to take some pics on the HID & angel eyes, probably gonna wait 'til next weekend, God I love WINTER. here are the pics taken from the meet. Look at Dan, he is always working hard no matter what weather condition. Best man for any installation.

Ryan

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/casperwonder/DSC00035.jpg

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/casperwonder/DSC00034_2.jpg

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/casperwonder/DSC00033.jpg

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/casperwonder/DSC00031.jpg

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/casperwonder/DSC00032.jpg

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/casperwonder/DSC00030.jpg

http://i607.photobucket.com/albums/tt154/casperwonder/DSC00029.jpg

[EvilEric]

I would suggest you carrry a few tools around now so you can get to your battery box. Just in case.

[casperwonder]

Thanks Eric, I will steal them from my Dad's tool box. Hehehehehehe...

[Aitch]

Actually the bar sits high enough that you can potentially finangle the battery cover out of there if you're in a bind.

[rick@garage16.ca]

Hey, it was nice meeting you guys there and all came on time :bana2


Great guys!!!

[prime]

yeah it was nice meeting you guys. too bad i couldn't stay since first, it was too damn cold lol and i forgot to bring a hat and second, my nephew/godson was having a baby party at my house. hope to see you guys again when i have my bar and springs on.

and thanks rick for the quick and easy transaction.

[Soyabean]

REMEMBER, 8mm allen key, 14mm socket LOL @ DAN

keep those in your trunk guys

[MistaChin]

REMEMBER, 8mm allen key, 14mm socket LOL @ DAN

keep those in your trunk guys

Thanks for the reminder! I remembered it was 8m allen key, but it was a tossup between 13mm or 14mm socket (if the 13 even exists). Im sure i'll be taking the casperwonder route and steal...errrr borrowing them from my dad's toolbox.

[Soyabean]

Please double check the 14mm socket. Im sure thats the one but now that u said 13, it might be 13 too.

Also, I have no idea where my dad put his 8mm allen key *looks arounds* haha. I slipped it into my mini socket set that i keep in my trunk

[cwp_sedan]

Troopers doing an install on such a cold day!!

[Garu]

Brave souls

[marvin24k]

Do you have any closer pics of the install? Is the install to remove the two screws per strut tower, mount strut tower, replace screws? Looks like the bar has to be on the 'front' side of the strut tower? Any issues with the install?

[ThucP]

Only issue is it seems like the bar touches the hood when it's closed.

[casperwonder]

Hi Marvin, all you have to do is remove the bolts on the strut tower (2 front bolts) and adjust the strut bar and make sure they are level from both ends. Than, put it on the tower and screw it back on. After that, tighten the nut on the adjustment rob. (you don't need to kill it). That's all it takes. You have to really push your car in the corner to feel the difference. I did that, It was fun.

[MistaChin]

Hey guys, give this a read.

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?t=10229&highlight=strut+bar+hood

It says Sedan owners have to take off the metal plate that is originally on there. That might help a bit with the rubbing issue. If this is the case i'll have to pay McGuyver a visit to help with the fix.

[Whosit]

I think thats for the bars with the full mounting plates. These ones only mount to 2 bolts so don't remove the original plate.

[MistaChin]

I think you may be correct. Ah well food for thought. Im keeping my bar in anyways. I guess there's nothing we cna really do about this rubbing issue then? As for now i'll continue enjoying taking many more quick turns.

[Aitch]

Actually that's a good point. I was looking at my upper mounting plates and thinking I should paint them come spring. I bet you could mount the bar under that plate and use a washer on the rear 3rd bolt so everything levels out, and stop the hood interference issue.

[casperwonder]

That's a good idea, Steve. Let me test it today.

[omalak]

I just bought a few washers from Home Depot, the diameter of the hole is bigger than the stock washer, but the it's the only washer that had the same thickness as the plate for the strut bar.

The washer from Home Depot was #3209 cost 15 cents lol, 3208 also fits.
If anyone needs them and cant locate a home depot let me know haha i can send some in the mail.

I put one of the plates in (no bar yet) so far so good seems like the clearance is ok.. I may put on the bar later tonight hopefully there will be no issues then

One question though, will moving the stock mounting plate have any impact on anything.. Don't think it would but still wanted to know.

[casperwonder]

Sweet, I will get one this weekend. Thanks man.

[casperwonder]

Hi Omalak, can you post some pics after the installation?

[Soyabean]

Talk here, aparently rick or someone deleted the thread where we were talking about this rubbing issue. Im going to keep it in but i still feel my hood its pushed up a little

[omalak]

I'm gonna head down right now, install the 2nd plate and the bar.. hope to have some observations for you guys soon..

[casperwonder]

I guess we shouldn't discuss problems at Rick's shop. Anyway, thanks for trying Omalak. We will wait for the good news.

[Soyabean]

What second plate? plate on top of the struts? wouldn't that push the bar up more? Also i wasnt clean on what you did with the washers

[casperwonder]

Hey soya, I think Omalak install only one of the washer on the tower, he is going to install the other right now. I can't wait for the result.:bang

[omalak]

Alright Just came back from the garage.

I should mention washer 3209 was a few mm smaller than the strut bar plate. I only noticed this after i used my flash light to look at it carefully.

To Solve the issue i used washer 3209, then placed washer 3208 ontop of that.

I don't notice the crazy hood recoil (bounce back, and audible sound that the hood hits the bar once opened) anymore.

I am pretty sure the bar has clearance now, the hood is mmuch easier to close than it was before.

I have a feeling the bar may still be close to the support bars on the hood, but again i think the issue is resolved.

Someone else please confirm once you complete your install.

Below are the pics i took of the install

Strut Tower with plate removed, 3209 washer in place ( remember if you buy 3209 place a 3208 ontop of the 3209)
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii334/omalak/101_5746.jpg


Washers, Plate, Strut Plate installed
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii334/omalak/101_5741.jpg
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii334/omalak/101_5742.jpg

Bar clearance over battery box ( there is clearance, it may not be clear from the pic)
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii334/omalak/101_5748-1.jpg

Looking across bar
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii334/omalak/101_5749-1.jpg

Bar height
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii334/omalak/101_5751-1.jpg

Looking straight across
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii334/omalak/101_5752.jpg

Bar height compared against cowl
http://i548.photobucket.com/albums/ii334/omalak/101_5755.jpg

Like i said, hopefully there is no downfall to having the stock strut tower plate placed above the strut bar plate.

:)

[omalak]

What second plate? plate on top of the struts? wouldn't that push the bar up more? Also i wasnt clean on what you did with the washers

Soyabean, sorry maybe this will make a bit more sense ( and hopefully the pics above explain better than my words)

1. removed the stock strut plate from the car, the golden plate(take off all 3 screws)

2. Place the Strut bar Plate (black part) ontop of the strut tower, then placed washer 3209 and 3208 on the 3rd hole ( the hole closest to the windshield). These washers were used to ensure once the stock plate strut plate is installed it is level.

3. Install the stock strut plate (golden one) and then put back the 3 screws you took out.. That's it!

[casperwonder]

Thanks Omalak, It looks great. I hope it rides the same. Do a TEST DRIVE!!!

[Aitch]

Yup, I think this is a better solution to installing this strut bar.

[omalak]

Definately a better solution! Thanks Aitch

Well the test drive will be tomorrow, when i do my daily trek from scarbrough to oshawa lol..

I dont expect having the stock plate above the strut bar plate to cause any issues. the screws are tied down the same.. we'll see i guess..

[marvin24k]

Thank you for the pictures, that's a great solution to the rubbing. I wonder if we can get any feedback from them sponsors to make sure this install method is fine and will not cause any other side effects.

[MistaChin]

Thanks for the pics omalak.

Let us know how the test drive goes! By looking at it, everything should be A-OK. Consider the problem solved!

[omalak]

Well drove into work this morning and blew a shock (alright so i'm kidding):chuckle

It seemed pretty smooth, I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary, did some hard cornering on highway off ramps and left turns at lights, the strut bar seems to be working just fine.

I still don't know if moving the stock plate above the strut bar plate will have any long term effects.. I don't see why it would.

I'm going to keep this setup until someone tells me other wise.

I have my 16k service next week sometime maybe i'll ask the dealer.

[casperwonder]

Thanks for the info Omalak, I will do the set up on the weekend. Keep us inform about the dealer consultation.

[Soyabean]

I think this is the perfect setup. Great job modding it to fit. Thanks a lot omalak, i will go home and do the same thing tonight

[Whosit]

I think my only concern is this. Your strut does still move and flex. Now normal this load is dispersed through the plate into the body but through the entire surface of the plate. Now at the back the only contact is at the washer. My concern is metal fatigue in that area over time. I am thinking of doing the same thing but if I do I would make a plate to put under it rather than a washer.

[sauga_kid]

Sorry, just to confirm, washer 3209 is an additional washer you had to purchase and 3208 is the existing one on the strut? Also, if 3209 is slightly smaller than the plate hole, is there any chance of stripping the bolt?

[omalak]

I bought both washer 3209, and 3208 from home depot. 15 cents and 12 cents respectively.

both washers have a larger hole than the one that is installed on the stock screw

I placed washer 3209 on the strut tower first, then 3208.

[omalak]

I think my only concern is this. Your strut does still move and flex. Now normal this load is dispersed through the plate into the body but through the entire surface of the plate. Now at the back the only contact is at the washer. My concern is metal fatigue in that area over time. I am thinking of doing the same thing but if I do I would make a plate to put under it rather than a washer.

I will ask the dealer on my next service appointment, that;s kind of worrying though. I hope nothign fatigues.

Can anyone else chime in?

[Aitch]

I think my only concern is this. Your strut does still move and flex. Now normal this load is dispersed through the plate into the body but through the entire surface of the plate. Now at the back the only contact is at the washer. My concern is metal fatigue in that area over time. I am thinking of doing the same thing but if I do I would make a plate to put under it rather than a washer.

I was thinking about this as well, but I sort of wonder why the upper gold plate is in there anyway. If you think about the suspension struts underneath, they have a top plate which contains the spring and is compressed by the top centre nut (which you can see through the hole in the shock tower). Then this top plate fits against the underside of the shock tower, with the three bolts protruding through, and essentially the shock tower metal is sandwiched by the strut top plate and the gold upper plate. But I don't think this sandwiching effect adds too much to the structural integrity, when the total force of the suspension from underneath should be spread fairly equally by the strut top plate, underneath the shock tower metal.

In addition, what makes the hatches different that they don't have this upper gold plate?

[MistaChin]

I think in a way Whosit is right. This solution should hold up for now. In the long run it may be best to put the plate first since the load is evenly distributed via the stock plate. And here i thought it was a feasible solution. Maybe you could take the stock plate and grind it down so that it's thinner? (as a desperate measure)

Let's ask FLIPDADY how much they are from MoT.

[omalak]

Maybe Flip can ask at the dealership and we can get an answer right now!

Where are you Joe!

Like Aitch said earlier, I heard the hatch's don't/ or at some point didn't have the top plate on the strut tower.

[Aitch]

I think in a way Whosit is right. This solution should hold up for now. In the long run it may be best to put the plate first since the load is evenly distributed via the stock plate. And here i thought it was a feasible solution. Maybe you could take the stock plate and grind it down so that it's thinner? (as a desperate measure)

Let's ask FLIPDADY how much they are from MoT.

I think that if you're going to have the stock plate on there first, and then the strut bar plate second, I would simply bend the strut bar plate slightly to create more clearance. Modding the stock upper plate by grinding or otherwise, would somewhat defeat the assumption that it is a necessary structural item.

[casperwonder]

Where is Flip? I hope he can give us some insights.:bang

[Soyabean]

Dont remove the plate. I went to airport mazda and they said something about using that plate for alignment or something like that and he said that we shouldnt remove it.

Overall i find this product not that great. The fitting is very bad. If bolting on the support and then putting on the cross bar, the left side isnt machined properly and cannot put the bolt through to attach the support to the bar. Also 1 nut is seized and i cant take it off to release the pressure of the strut. Anyone can help me loosen up the nut? I tried to spin the end to make it longer but i cant move it. I am so fustrated right now. ARGH. I am not very satisfied with this because of the clearance under the hood either.

Now i need to find a way to make this fit.... and fix everything

[omalak]

Dont remove the plate. I went to airport mazda and they said something about using that plate for alignment or something like that and he said that we shouldnt remove it.

Overall i find this product not that great. The fitting is very bad. If bolting on the support and then putting on the cross bar, the left side isnt machined properly and cannot put the bolt through to attach the support to the bar. Also 1 nut is seized and i cant take it off to release the pressure of the strut. Anyone can help me loosen up the nut? I tried to spin the end to make it longer but i cant move it. I am so fustrated right now. ARGH. I am not very satisfied with this because of the clearance under the hood either.

Now i need to find a way to make this fit.... and fix everything

Uh oh.. maybe i should remove mine.. :/

I had a look in the service manual and the stock plate is called a "stiffner plate", however i did not see any direct reference made about the stiffner plate in the alignment section of the manual

Inputs anyone?

[casperwonder]

Thanks for the info, Soya. I will leave it on as it is and check if the rubbing will actually cost any damage on the hood. For the bolt, have you try using the circular saw (those small one find in CT) to cut it loose? Make be give Dan a PM, he might have the tool to help you out.

[MistaChin]

Im gonna have to just live with it. I got the hood underpadding so i'm not gonna pay any attention to it. Only time will tell if this is a big problem. Some say it's better to prevent than to cure, but in this case ill have to wait and see.

[omalak]

Soyabean, regarding that screw, try popping a screw driver under the washer, while using a wrench to unscrew. Maybe you screwed the bolt in at an off angle..

As far as the bar goes, i think i'm going to stick with the washers installed, i cant see how this will casue any damage to eith the strut tower or the shocks/struts themselves. It is not like we fully removed the stock stiffener plate, so the alignment arguement is out of the window in my mind.

[casperwonder]

Hi Omalak, you are doing the service next week. Can you double check with the dealer? Thanks in advance.

[omalak]

Yep, service is at 6:30 this thursday : )

I will provide as much detail as i can

[Soyabean]

What screw? You mean the bolt that connects the cross bar to the support? The way the part where you put the bolt through on the support is made a little slanted. So it is on an angle which is why i have difficulty putting it in. Im not so much worried about that because i can still put it in but im just saying the product wasn't made too well.

My concern is the nut on each end of the strut bar that you can tighten to stiffen the connection between the struts on each side. One of the nuts are stuck and i cant unloosen it. I dont want to vice grip it to prevent damaging the bar but if i have to in the end i will.

[Aitch]

What screw? You mean the bolt that connects the cross bar to the support? The way the part where you put the bolt through on the support is made a little slanted. So it is on an angle which is why i have difficulty putting it in. Im not so much worried about that because i can still put it in but im just saying the product wasn't made too well.

My concern is the nut on each end of the strut bar that you can tighten to stiffen the connection between the struts on each side. One of the nuts are stuck and i cant unloosen it. I dont want to vice grip it to prevent damaging the bar but if i have to in the end i will.

I was a little confused before but I understand things now. The nut which attaches the end threaded pieces to the centre cross bar not only sets the width of the whole bar setup, but they also can control the angle at which the end threaded pieces sit (i.e. should be at 90 degrees to the cross bar, so that you can attach the support plates, which is where you're having problems). Technically it should be set this way when you recieve it, but its always good to loosen them as these nuts should be the LAST thing you tighten. This lets you set all the angles and lengths of the bar properly, and is why an adjustable bar is a good idea (if ultimate stiffness isn't desired) as it easily accounts for minor differences between cars.

Unfortunately it sounds like a vice grip is your best option BUT you should pad the bar well first with either some foam, or thick polar fleece (or similar). This will let you grip the bar but not scratch it. Trust me, when you get that bolt loose, everything else comes together perfectly.

[Soyabean]

update: I got my dad to do it with a little elbow grease and 2 wrenches. He got it loose.

I checked today and see that it definitely pushes up the hood as i see the back part of the hood (near the windshield) lift upwards as i push down the hood gently. So i ended up taking off the bar but left the supports on.

Now im waiting on omalaks approval from the dealership to reinstall my bar they way he did.

[omalak]

I just got back from my 16k service at Gyro Mazda, I asked the service advisor about the strut bar and if it would have any negative impacts on the body/shock/wheels.

He said everything should be fine. and I shouldn't have any issues providing the stiffner plate is still installed above the strut bar plate, and ensuring that all 3 bolts are still holding onto the shock/sturt.

I told him, i had to use a 2 washers to ensure the stiffner plate was sitting level, he said that's fine.


Final Verdict: WASHER METHOD WORKS :bana

[Soyabean]

I just got back from my 16k service at Gyro Mazda, I asked the service advisor about the strut bar and if it would have any negative impacts on the body/shock/wheels.

He said everything should be fine. and I shouldn't have any issues providing the stiffner plate is still installed above the strut bar plate, and ensuring that all 3 bolts are still holding onto the shock/sturt.

I told him, i had to use a 2 washers to ensure the stiffner plate was sitting level, he said that's fine.


Final Verdict: WASHER METHOD WORKS :bana

:bana2 :bana2

I do mine sometime when its warmer. Im just going to find some random washers that will level up to around the same level and use em. Dont feel like going home depot and paying 60 cents for 4 washers lol

But good job, very innovative solution

[casperwonder]

THANK YOU SO MUCH OMALAK!!! I am going to set it up on the weekend.

[MistaChin]

AWESOME! Thanks for this Omalak! I'll do mine in warmer weather!

[casperwonder]

I changed the set up today and It does feel better, I can't hear the rubbing anymore. It makes my ride even better. Love the strut bar!

[prime]

i actually tried the washer alternative but the only difference is my hatchback still hits the padding and i only used the 1309 washer... doesn't the combination of 1309 and 1308 seem a lot thicker than the bar base leaving it uneven?

[omalak]

I can't speak for hatches, as i think the hood clearance maybe different than the sedans, but i used washer 3209 and 3208.

Now i did do it in a rush, it may not be an exactly perfect level, but to my eyes it seemed like a pretty decent level so i went with it... No issues i can see so far.. but only time will tell... It is definately a better setup than the standard install method ( atleast from a sedan standpoint)

you got 3209 and 3208 right?

[casperwonder]

I don't know what number of washer I used. My dad brought home some washer from work and we tested out the washer to find the perfect thickness. I don't think the thickness really matter too much as long as it hold the strut bar and stiffner plate together. I would put the washer along with the base of the strut bar to check the level. Just my 2 cent.

[McGuyver_3]

I dont really agree with what that service advisor said. The metal plate that sits up top is a stiffner plate as already discussed. The reason why it is there is because if you take it out all that is left is the sheet metal of the body which will get damaged very easily. sandwhiching the strut bar connector in there and using a washer on the one bolt seems risky. Most of the tower will be allright except were there is no support. I have my suspicions about it.

[prime]

I can't speak for hatches, as i think the hood clearance maybe different than the sedans, but i used washer 3209 and 3208.

Now i did do it in a rush, it may not be an exactly perfect level, but to my eyes it seemed like a pretty decent level so i went with it... No issues i can see so far.. but only time will tell... It is definately a better setup than the standard install method ( atleast from a sedan standpoint)

you got 3209 and 3208 right?

sorry i meant 3209. i don't know where i got 1309 from lol.

actually when i took off the screws on the plate the alignment of the hole was off. i had to realign the holes to the thin metal sheet to screw the plate back on. i don't know if that makes sense but it was a pain to install such a simple strut bar.

is there another strut bar that fits better than this one? not exactly satisfied with this product.

[casperwonder]

I had the same problem with alignment, you need to park your car on a level floor. My parking spot is not even. I saw other member's strut bar set up (vibrant strut bar), it has the same rubbing problem like we do. In fact, it scratches the hell out of the hood. I guess there is no other way out of this unless you take off the strut bar completely.

[marvin24k]

I am very disappointed with this strut bar. I don't want to install it, if it's gonna mess up my hood.

McGuyver_3 is right, the pressure on that empty space below the bracket will cause some kind of damage over time. How can the service advisor guarantee that the install will be fine over time?

I was also expecting some feedback from Rick on the install method. Do they just install it over the top of the bracket? Damage hoods? I understand this is a cheap bar, and I knew we would run into problems. All I want was some kind of feedback from the supplier.

Marvin.

[Soyabean]

You got a feedback from the supplier. When we were discussing this problem on one of the threads he started he deleted it. "What problem?"

[Aitch]

I am very disappointed with this strut bar. I don't want to install it, if it's gonna mess up my hood.

McGuyver_3 is right, the pressure on that empty space below the bracket will cause some kind of damage over time. How can the service advisor guarantee that the install will be fine over time?

I was also expecting some feedback from Rick on the install method. Do they just install it over the top of the bracket? Damage hoods? I understand this is a cheap bar, and I knew we would run into problems. All I want was some kind of feedback from the supplier.

Marvin.

I see two solutions to installing this bar.

1) Use the washer method (I have also done this over the weekend). I understand the concern about having the stiffener plate raised above the strut tower metal, but as I mentioned previously, the spring which seats against this strut tower (underneath) is actually topped by another plate (conveniently called the top plate). I really don't believe that this flat surface plate underneath the strut tower can cause the strut tower metal to deform in any way, when it is secured from moving laterally by three bolts and the stiffener plate is still in place to ensure that these bolts don't move laterally with respect to each other.

2) If you're uncomfortable with that, the alternate solution is to take the strut tower bar mounting brackets and slightly bend them in a vice, so that the bar mounts low and basically sits on top of the battery box, as most other bars do.

Look, I can understand you guys want to hear from the supplier on this. I just feel that for $50, when most other bars START at $80 and go up from there, I wasn't expecting this to be necessarily as high quality as other bars (not as stiff as a full welded setup, not exactly precise fitment). I knew what I was getting and I'm happy with it.

[marvin24k]

The feedback must have gotten deleted before I got a chance to read it. It's not a BIG problem, there is workarounds. I just want to be informed before I go and put it in.


You got a feedback from the supplier. When we were discussing this problem on one of the threads he started he deleted it. "What problem?"

[marvin24k]

I am probably go with option 1, but I'll look for a plate? or washer? that will cover the empty space. It might take alot of looking around but I think I can find it.


I see two solutions to installing this bar.

1) Use the washer method (I have also done this over the weekend). I understand the concern about having the stiffener plate raised above the strut tower metal, but as I mentioned previously, the spring which seats against this strut tower (underneath) is actually topped by another plate (conveniently called the top plate). I really don't believe that this flat surface plate underneath the strut tower can cause the strut tower metal to deform in any way, when it is secured from moving laterally by three bolts and the stiffener plate is still in place to ensure that these bolts don't move laterally with respect to each other.

2) If you're uncomfortable with that, the alternate solution is to take the strut tower bar mounting brackets and slightly bend them in a vice, so that the bar mounts low and basically sits on top of the battery box, as most other bars do.

Look, I can understand you guys want to hear from the supplier on this. I just feel that for $50, when most other bars START at $80 and go up from there, I wasn't expecting this to be necessarily as high quality as other bars (not as stiff as a full welded setup, not exactly precise fitment). I knew what I was getting and I'm happy with it.