HOV lane fine worth fighting?

[Unoriginalusername]

First, I hate all the people that fly by me everyday in the HOV lane with no passengers.

Ironically I got myself a ticket this am for being in the HOV lane (403). Wondering if it is worth fighting since the traffic came to a sever stop in front of me and to avoid a collision (rear-ended) i went into the vacant hov lane.

I had traffic coming up behind me so i didn't stop in the lane and try and get back over, but figured i would merge at the first dotted line/safe opportunity however in that 500 meters or so that i was in a lane there was a cop looking for people without passengers and i was ticketed.

Should I just shut up and pay the ticket knowing that the fine costs less than my insurance deductable would have and i am ahead in the long run or is this the type of thing they might understand?

[Nextmod]

OPP ticket right?

[midnightfxgt]

I'd fight it James, sounds like a legit reason!

[JSI]

I'd fight it, hopefully the officer won't even show.


Jeremy

[ElegantGremlin]

You could fight it with a Defense of Necessity. Basically tell them that you entered the lane to avoid a collision. All you have to do is argue to these three points:


1. the accused must be in imminent peril or danger
2. the accused must have had no reasonable legal alternative to the course of action he or she undertook
3. the harm inflicted by the accused must be proportional to the harm avoided by the accused

[RallyPlaya]

I Fully agree, fight it, ive won 2 cases with X-Copper, there is a good chance the Cop will not even show

[swales]

Fight it!

[Iceman_F1]

In that situation, I'd fight it. If that was the best course of action and you were waiting to go back over at the earliest chance, seems like it was a valid reason. Same with "driving on the shoulder". If you were avoiding an accident and were going to move back over at the next possible chance, I don't see what the issue would have been.

I know how bad the 403 can be and I know why it's annoying seeing other cars with just 1 person in that as their own personal express lane...and weaving in and out of traffic when even that's not fast enough for them >_<

[mzkaye729]

Yup. I'd fight it too and file a court date that way. Seems a legit reason to me as I'd have done the same to avoid an accident.

Dont know how long the courts take to give you a date though as I've been waiting for my speeding ticket/failure to show insurance card court dates since Nov. 08 though.

[towelsnap]

You could fight it with a Defense of Necessity. Basically tell them that you entered the lane to avoid a collision. All you have to do is argue to these three points:

Quote:
1. the accused must be in imminent peril or danger
2. the accused must have had no reasonable legal alternative to the course of action he or she undertook
3. the harm inflicted by the accused must be proportional to the harm avoided by the accused




+1 :)

[Unoriginalusername]

I agree and am going to fight it. since i was technically in the lane, does that mean i selecy guilty with a reason or not guilty?

[BoostieMonster]

Just to play devils advocate here, they could say you should have left plenty of space in front of you to stop in time (As we all know if someone would have slammed on their brakes in front of you and you hit them from behind its 100% your fault). So for you to have to swerve out of the way would technically mean you didn't give yourself proper space or timing to stop. As a result you ended up in the car pool lane but what if you swerved and hit another car and they went into the rail/tree/etc and died. I can bet that you will be charged and then try and say the guy in front of you braked which is no excuse......could always go to the justice of the peace and plead guilty to a lesser charge so it doesn't get to the court phase.

[CanadaGTO]

I agree and am going to fight it. since i was technically in the lane, does that mean i selecy guilty with a reason or not guilty?

Do not select guilty with a reason. If it's an option request a 1st showing (basically you meet with the prosecutor before pleading) or just plead not guilty. Pleading guilty with a reason can get your fine lowered but not the points.

Oh, and also quit following too close. :)

[Unoriginalusername]

Do not select guilty with a reason. If it's an option request a 1st showing (basically you meet with the prosecutor before pleading) or just plead not guilty. Pleading guilty with a reason can get your fine lowered but not the points.

Oh, and also quit following too close. :)

I wasn't going to hit the guy, it was the pickup truck not paying attention behind me that was going to be the collision. i've been nailed from behind before (wait that sounds wrong) in my matrix from a kid on a cell phone and didn't want that again

[ElegantGremlin]

I think we need the full story.

[towelsnap]

how long were you in the lane? 5ks or just the 500m?

[mzkaye729]

I wasn't going to hit the guy, it was the pickup truck not paying attention behind me that was going to be the collision

Ooooohhhhh ok. He was tailgating you !

I hate people that tailgate :bang:bang:bang That happens a lot to me with big trucks on the hwy even if I'm going 120, they still like to tailgate :bang I can never figure out why.

[ZeroChalk]

I'd like to the outcome of this ticket - I'd think it'll be very difficult to prove.

[chinsterr]

how long were you in the lane? 5ks or just the 500m?

+1


UoU did you get caught where the HOV lane ends?



*edit: I just saw your edited post.

[BoostieMonster]

You can't use an excuse that someone was going to hit you from behind so you swerved into another lane usually filled with motorists flying by at 120km/hr......as you put everyone in that lane in danger from your actions.

[Unoriginalusername]

+1
UoU did you get caught where the HOV lane ends?

*edit: I just saw your edited post.


Traffic came to a stop a ways after winston churchill. As it quickly halted and I saw the truck looking like he could not stop I scooted into the HOV lane as I saw that there was an opening.

The issue I now had is a stopped passing lane with traffic behind me in the hov lane and I need to get over. I drove about 500m before the cop pulled me over well before you get to the mavis dotted line where i had hoped to be able to merge back over.


You can't use an excuse that someone was going to hit you from behind so you swerved into another lane usually filled with motorists flying by at 120km/hr......as you put everyone in that lane in danger from your actions.
There was a large enough gap and i still had enough momentum to make the lane change without risking another accident. option 1 = 99% chance of collision, option 2 = 1% chance

[towelsnap]

+1


UoU did you get caught where the HOV lane ends?



*edit: I just saw your edited post.

*edit: is that good or bad :chuckle


To be honest..... to the officer it looks like your late for work or in a rush and just trying to avoid the traffic ... may be harder to prove, aslong as you make your point that you honestly felt the vehicle behind you wasn't going to stop in time you may have a chance... overall.... sorry this happened and wish you the best of luck getting out of this.

[ElegantGremlin]

You can't use an excuse that someone was going to hit you from behind so you swerved into another lane usually filled with motorists flying by at 120km/hr......as you put everyone in that lane in danger from your actions.

Sure he can. He did the lane change safely and didn't get hit. If he had gotten hit, he would be completely at-fault with no excuse but as a ticket for being in the lane, he does.

[RedRaptor]

You can't use an excuse that someone was going to hit you from behind so you swerved into another lane usually filled with motorists flying by at 120km/hr......as you put everyone in that lane in danger from your actions.

+1

Sounds like a bad excuse to me. I "thought" I was going to get rear ended so I did "this and that". You can't predict what the person behind you will do nor can you just assume it. You make sure you stop in time and leave it to the others to stop as well. If the truck was tailing you, you should have let him pass you by moving to the right lane and then moving back.

Total double standard here. I bet if OrignalUserName was just the average Joe on the road and someone from TM3 in the HOV lane almost hit him, we would be calling the average Joe names and saying how he's a jackarse for putting people's life in danger.

Man up and just pay the fine.

[JSI]

This is getting a little overboard. Realitically cop doesn't show, you're good. If he does that's a different story but deal with that if you have to.

Jeremy

[ElegantGremlin]

+1

Sounds like a bad excuse to me. I "thought" I was going to get rear ended so I did "this and that". You can't predict what the person behind you will do nor can you just assume it. You make sure you stop in time and leave it to the others to stop as well. If the truck was tailing you, you should have let him pass you by moving to the right lane and then moving back.

Total double standard here. I bet if OrignalUserName was just the average Joe on the road and someone from TM3 in the HOV lane almost hit him, we would be calling the average Joe names and saying how he's a jackarse for putting people's life in danger.

Man up and just pay the fine.

Wtf. But he didn't almost hit anyone in the HOV lane. He believed (based on prior experience where they actually did hit him) that the car behind him would not stop in time so he SAFELY pulled into the HOV lane to avoid being (potentially) rear ended. Of course he has no idea if the truck would've stopped in time but I would rather pull into the other lane than find out.

[Iceman_F1]

Wtf. But he didn't almost hit anyone in the HOV lane. He believed (based on prior experience where they actually did hit him) that the car behind him would not stop in time so he SAFELY pulled into the HOV lane to avoid being (potentially) rear ended. Of course he has no idea if the truck would've stopped in time but I would rather pull into the other lane than find out.

+1

I know when I was doing driver training with Young Drivers, they always said to leave an "exit space" or have an idea where to move in case something happens.

In this case, it was the HOV lane. From reading, UOU did a manuver that brought him to that to avoid a possible collision and was waiting for a good chance to safely move back in. However, since he was in the HOV lane as a single driver, he got a ticket. I think if he fights it and explains it, it would be good.

[Unoriginalusername]

I've got 15 years of no speeding tickets and no accidents at my fault. I've been rearended once before in a similar situation and don't want to go through that experience again.

You don't go 15 years without a ticket or an accident by driving reclessly, speeding, or tailgaiting. Understand the court may not like the answer, but IMO as a safe driver my actions avoided a collision and did not put anyone in risk in the hov lane since there was such a significant gap to the next hov car vs. the impending collision from the truck behind me

[Fobio]

This is getting a little overboard. Realitically cop doesn't show, you're good. If he does that's a different story but deal with that if you have to.

Jeremy

seriously...

they pull over the HOV offenders and purposely take their time to show other drivers the consequence. in reality, I tend to believe that they'd rarely show for court for such a charge. but I'm interested in knowing the outcome as well.

edit: btw...good luck...I'd fight it anyway.

[Unoriginalusername]

seriously...

they pull over the HOV offenders and purposely take their time to show other drivers the consequence. in reality, I tend to believe that they'd rarely show for court for such a charge. but I'm interested in knowing the outcome as well.

I understand that the cop gets overtime for court duty and they usually show? Either way it doesn't matter since i feel my claim is legitiment and I am not goig to take a 3 point infraction and a monetary fine for avoiding a collision. hopefully logic and common sense prevail.

Other 400 series highways have an emergency lane on either side, the 403 eliminates the emergency lane for the left hand lane given you cannot pull out and stop in the hov lane. Your choices are to get smoked or break the hov lane rule and in either case insurance seems to be the winner



1) In toronto, POA offenses are still tried in court. It won't get thrown away.
2) Most insurance companies give you one ticket free before they nail you. If yours doesn't, change companies because yours sucks.
3) Points in Ontario are not deducted. They are demerit points, and they are ADDED.
4) Points mean NOTHING to your insurance company. All they care about are # of minor and # of major tickets. Demerit points are only used by the ministry to decide whether to let you keep your license or not.
5) Improper use of an HOV lane carries a 3 demerit point penalty as per: http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/demerit.shtml

Finally, if you're telling the truth about the guy coming up your a**, I'd fight it and tell the truth in court about it -- sounds completely legitimate to me, and if I were a judge, I'd let it slide.

[MAZDA Kitten]

I drive on the 403 every single morning for the past 5 years. I have seen so much stupidness because of these HOV lanes. I feel your pain. I have been tempted to jump into the HOV lane

just fight it

[swales]

Just go for it man, I had the same defence for my stunt driving charge and I got it thrown out. Someone pulled off the shoulder of a single lane highway when I was coming around a corner so I accelerated and passed the guy instead of slamming on the brakes and hoping either I wouldn't hit him or go over the cliff and a cop gave me a stunt driving charge. I had to go to trial and the judge agreed I was doing the safe thing and threw out the Crowns charge against me. Considering how busy the GTA courts are, the cop either won't show or they will drop or reduce it anyways

[mazda lover]

Just to play devils advocate here, they could say you should have left plenty of space in front of you to stop in time (As we all know if someone would have slammed on their brakes in front of you and you hit them from behind its 100% your fault). So for you to have to swerve out of the way would technically mean you didn't give yourself proper space or timing to stop. As a result you ended up in the car pool lane but what if you swerved and hit another car and they went into the rail/tree/etc and died. I can bet that you will be charged and then try and say the guy in front of you braked which is no excuse......could always go to the justice of the peace and plead guilty to a lesser charge so it doesn't get to the court phase.

+1
We could all use the same excuse, too close to avoid hitting someone went in the HOV lane, got to remember that one. Also if you reacted quickly and not looked you might have cut someone off in the HOV lane. I have driven in those lanes on the 404 and when driving at 100KMH and passing all the stopped cars I fear someone is going to enter the lane and cut me off, so I have the cruise on and my foot over the brake peddle ready to stop if I have to ....I bet the officer heard that reason before...

[mazda lover]

Just go for it man, I had the same defence for my stunt driving charge and I got it thrown out. Someone pulled off the shoulder of a single lane highway when I was coming around a corner so I accelerated and passed the guy instead of slamming on the brakes and hoping either I wouldn't hit him or go over the cliff and a cop gave me a stunt driving charge. I had to go to trial and the judge agreed I was doing the safe thing and threw out the Crowns charge against me. Considering how busy the GTA courts are, the cop either won't show or they will drop or reduce it anyways

Its not the same, you were cut off, you weren't following too close...

[Iceman_F1]

Its not the same, you were cut off, you weren't following too close...

I believe UOU stated in a previous comment that it wasn't a matter of HIM not being able to stop in time from the person in front of him...but a matter of he didn't think the person BEHIND him would stop in time. It was a choice of get hit from behind and possibly cause a scene and even more traffic while going through the hassle of being in an accident. Or playing it safe and go into the HOV lane just in case.

Obviously, you can argue for or against regardless. I personally would have done the same thing.

[mazda lover]

I understand that the cop gets overtime for court duty and they usually show? Either way it doesn't matter since i feel my claim is legitiment and I am not goig to take a 3 point infraction and a monetary fine for avoiding a collision. hopefully logic and common sense prevail.

Other 400 series highways have an emergency lane on either side, the 403 eliminates the emergency lane for the left hand lane given you cannot pull out and stop in the hov lane. Your choices are to get smoked or break the hov lane rule and in either case insurance seems to be the winner


have to agree with emergency lane on the left being eliminated. Thats why I don't drive in the left lane on some highways, no where to go to bail out....stay to the right and mind my own business

[mazda lover]

I believe UOU stated in a previous comment that it wasn't a matter of HIM not being able to stop in time from the person in front of him...but a matter of he didn't think the person BEHIND him would stop in time. It was a choice of get hit from behind and possibly cause a scene and even more traffic while going through the hassle of being in an accident. Or playing it safe and go into the HOV lane just in case.

Obviously, you can argue for or against regardless. I personally would have done the same thing.

so drivers are quick enough to react to a emergency situation by looking in the rear view mirror notice the car behind is very close, it might not stop, also check the side mirror if any fast moving cars aren't approaching so you can move over..wow all in a split second ok I will give you 2 seconds...

[mEtH]

take it to court... seeing as you know its wrong to be in the lane but you had a good reason to be there, pleading guilty with a reason would make sense but still just fight it and take it to court with that story. Like said above, cop no show YOU WIN!

[BoostieMonster]

Here's the problem....going to justice of the peace and pleading guilty to a lesser offence can work for fine as well as points, I had a speeding ticket for 30 over......$150+ ticket and 3 demerit points...I came with a sob story to the JOP and she reduced the ticket to $40 and no points, you either get lucky or not.

If you go to court, it means you are going for the complete innocent verdict....they do not do a guilty with lower offence, its either one or the other. Innocent and all charges dropped or guilty and full charges.

As a side note, after hearing what the JOP is offering you can still deny it and take it to court, so why not chance that the JOP will be lenient and drop the demerit points?

[Darkfrosty7]

I Fully agree, fight it, ive won 2 cases with X-Copper, there is a good chance the Cop will not even show

they are going to start paying the cops to show...

[She_Prime]

Here's the problem....going to justice of the peace and pleading guilty to a lesser offence can work for fine as well as points, I had a speeding ticket for 30 over......$150+ ticket and 3 demerit points...I came with a sob story to the JOP and she reduced the ticket to $40 and no points, you either get lucky or not.

If you go to court, it means you are going for the complete innocent verdict....they do not do a guilty with lower offence, its either one or the other. Innocent and all charges dropped or guilty and full charges.

As a side note, after hearing what the JOP is offering you can still deny it and take it to court, so why not chance that the JOP will be lenient and drop the demerit points?

not entirely true. I had a careless driving charge that I got one of the x-copper type people to take to court for me. It was full blown court as I got a letter in the mail stating what time, what room and what day the court was being held. Anyway, they dropped the 6 point $325 charge that careless is down to a 2 point minor offence with a $110 fine.

[DingBat]

Pay the damn ticket and think about what you could have done to avoid the situation the next time.

It's not like the money that you all waste fighting tickets just materializes out of thin air. It comes out of your pocket in tax dollars.

[STeeLy]

Fight it!

And DingBat? What if that is the only thing he could have done to avoid the situation? Maybe he tried to get into the right lane for the truck behind him to pass but no one was letting him in and then traffic came to a complete stop?

And... He pays the tax dollars, he has a right to use it. He's not abusing it because this is a ticket he could legitimately fight.

Fight it UOU!

[5_Alive]

What is wrong with some of you guys? You seriously just out to piss on UOU?

I would have done the same ****ing thing UOU did. I would not want to get rear-ended because some idiot behind me was following too close. In this case, he had a safe spot to merge over, and he did. Its a chance he took because he believed the guy in the truck was seriously going to take him out.

Chances are, the guy in the truck ended up stopping where UOU would have ended up had he stayed in the lane.

Next time, let the guy hit you. Then when traffic is jammed for hours on end, and the people complaining now about what you did by merging over are stuck in the jam, they have a reason to be totally angry with you.

Fight the ticket, go to full maximum, explain the story, go from there. The ticket should be thrown out in this matter.

Also, this HOV lane sounds completely stupid. Its good now that I know what it is. I'm not from the GTA so if I was in it and got nailed, I'd definitely be pissed.

[Unoriginalusername]

some of you guys are on crack, I look forward to you posting pictures of your rearended car and then explaining that you could have moved over but decided the best thing to do was to stay put.

registered yesterday, will get notice of my date within a month

[Unoriginalusername]

some of you guys are on crack, I look forward to you posting pictures of your rearended car and then explaining that you could have moved over but decided the best thing to do was to stay put.

registered yesterday, will get notice of my date within a month

[Iceman_F1]

What is wrong with some of you guys? You seriously just out to piss on UOU?

I would have done the same ****ing thing UOU did. I would not want to get rear-ended because some idiot behind me was following too close. In this case, he had a safe spot to merge over, and he did. Its a chance he took because he believed the guy in the truck was seriously going to take him out.

Chances are, the guy in the truck ended up stopping where UOU would have ended up had he stayed in the lane.

Next time, let the guy hit you. Then when traffic is jammed for hours on end, and the people complaining now about what you did by merging over are stuck in the jam, they have a reason to be totally angry with you.

Fight the ticket, go to full maximum, explain the story, go from there. The ticket should be thrown out in this matter.

Also, this HOV lane sounds completely stupid. Its good now that I know what it is. I'm not from the GTA so if I was in it and got nailed, I'd definitely be pissed.

I agree with everything you have said. I agree with UoU. However, there ARE signs that say it is only for cars with 2 people or more in the car or busses (not sure if the 2 person rule still applies). There are also notices saying only to merge in and out on the dotted line section. As with any rule though, people either don't care or in the case of UoU, have to bypass it to try and avoid an accident.

[Unoriginalusername]

I agree with everything you have said. I agree with UoU. However, there ARE signs that say it is only for cars with 2 people or more in the car or busses (not sure if the 2 person rule still applies). There are also notices saying only to merge in and out on the dotted line section. As with any rule though, people either don't care or in the case of UoU, have to bypass it to try and avoid an accident.

I have a great respect for the laws and the officers that patrole the hwy to keep the lane clear for its rightful users however there needs to be some breathing room on the exceptions.

I have seen ambulances and firetrucks break the speed limit which is fine because they are helping save someone but they are still technically breaking the law. So while I too technically broke the letter of the law i think and fair interpetation of the situation will show that my actions prevented injury to myself and other drivers

[whiteomega]

Given the choice of the HOV lane or getting rear-ended, I'd take the HOV lane, even if I had room to stop. The logic is simple to me: I have room to stop, but the person behind me does not. If he rear ends me, he could push me into the car in front, leading to a pileup, and possibly many injuries.

I'd rather take the HOV lane to avoid any collision. If I get pulled over and ticketed for that, then I'd do what UoU is doing. Processes for fighting a ticket exist for cases of of being wrongfully charged; not because "I don't want to pay the fine for knowingly breaking the law." In this case, it certainly is a wrongful charge. (To be fair, I doubt the officer saw the reason UoU pulled into the HOV lane, so he really didn't have a choice but to pull him over and ticket him)

[Iceman_F1]

I have a great respect for the laws and the officers that patrole the hwy to keep the lane clear for its rightful users however there needs to be some breathing room on the exceptions.

I have seen ambulances and firetrucks break the speed limit which is fine because they are helping save someone but they are still technically breaking the law. So while I too technically broke the letter of the law i think and fair interpetation of the situation will show that my actions prevented injury to myself and other drivers

I 100% agree with that.

[Unoriginalusername]

Given the choice of the HOV lane or getting rear-ended, I'd take the HOV lane, even if I had room to stop. The logic is simple to me: I have room to stop, but the person behind me does not. If he rear ends me, he could push me into the car in front, leading to a pileup, and possibly many injuries.

I'd rather take the HOV lane to avoid any collision. If I get pulled over and ticketed for that, then I'd do what UoU is doing. Processes for fighting a ticket exist for cases of of being wrongfully charged; not because "I don't want to pay the fine for knowingly breaking the law." In this case, it certainly is a wrongful charge. (To be fair, I doubt the officer saw the reason UoU pulled into the HOV lane, so he really didn't have a choice but to pull him over and ticket him)

correct he didn't see the incident. As i am now in the HOV lane with traffic barreling towards me i have no choice to be moving and look for a safe opportunity to get back over. This took about 500 meters and as luck would have it that is were the officer was

[cwp_sedan]

Definitely fight it. Your excuse is legitimate and hopefully a judge will see it that way. By telling your story there will be no need for a cop to be there anyway as you aren't denying being in the lane. What the charge will be is the bigger question. I would maybe talk to someone more knowledgeable with specifics to the HOV lane, etc. and any charges .

Hopefully you will be able to get out of this ticket man!

[mazda lover]

some of you guys are on crack, I look forward to you posting pictures of your rearended car and then explaining that you could have moved over but decided the best thing to do was to stay put.

registered yesterday, will get notice of my date within a month


you are probably right but you could be wrong. We can't see what the future brings. Bottom line leave a lot of room between you and the car in front so no need for an emergency stop which in turn means the car behind would not need to come to an emergency stop.. but the down side is when leaving enough space will probably mean someone will move into that space causing you to back off again...and again/...your situation is pausable and I think you will get off...good luck
just curious but where was the cop sitting when he saw you in the HOV lane..

[Unoriginalusername]

you are probably right but you could be wrong. We can't see what the future brings. Bottom line leave a lot of room between you and the car in front so no need for an emergency stop which in turn means the car behind would not need to come to an emergency stop.. but the down side is when leaving enough space will probably mean someone will move into that space causing you to back off again...and again/...your situation is pausable and I think you will get off...good luck
just curious but where was the cop sitting when he saw you in the HOV lane..

You leave two bus lengths in between you and the next car and the spots just get filled, you know that. I had a safe spot for me to stop, I can't manage inattentive speeding/tailgating drivers behind me which is why defensive action is necessary sometimes

[RallyPlaya]

With 15 years of good driving records behind your back, im sure this case will be resolved easilly, It will take a couple months before you actually go to court but im guessing theres a 95% chance you will either win the case or gain a lesser charge...Good Luck it will soon be behind you

[DingBat]

Just because you did something to avoid a collision doesn't mean you didn't break the law.

The most bogus ticket I ever got was when I was taking my wife to the hospital. On the map, the most direct route called for a right turn on some street that happened to have a "no right turns from 7am - 9am" bylaw, for some stupid reason I never uncovered. The sign explaining this was on the opposite side of the street and partially concealed.

The officer that pulled me over had 3 other people already stacked up. I was completely pissed. My wife said I uttered nothing but expletives for 10 straight minutes.

Right after the hospital visit I marched straight to the closest justice of the peace and protested the ticket. He calmly heard me out and then asked: "Did you make the right turn?". I had to say yes. He smiled and said "You broke the law". After a minute we both laughed. I paid the fine and moved on.

You completely did the right thing on the road. And that might not have anything at all to do with the ticket you got later.

Hey, fight it. I hope you win. But to read here, you get the impression that every single ticket issued to a member here gets fought and that pisses me off. People are working the system. They don't get off because they're innocent. They get off because the police have better things to do. And we all end up paying for it.

[5_Alive]

Ontario's driving laws are so homosexual like our government. This country is full of communism..

[STeeLy]

Hey, fight it. I hope you win. But to read here, you get the impression that every single ticket issued to a member here gets fought and that pisses me off. People are working the system. They don't get off because they're innocent. They get off because the police have better things to do. And we all end up paying for it.

No, I don't get the impression that every single ticket issued to a TM3 member should be fought. I don't like it as much as you do when people tell other people to fight tickets when they shouldn't... I don't like it when people work the system. In this case, while he did break the law, he did it so he wouldn't cause himself, the driver behind him, and possibly the driver in front of him bodily injuries and I think that is a legitimate reason to break that traffic law, after all... the traffic laws are there for the safety of drivers and pedestrians.

[mazda lover]

No, I don't get the impression that every single ticket issued to a TM3 member should be fought. I don't like it as much as you do when people tell other people to fight tickets when they shouldn't... I don't like it when people work the system. In this case, while he did break the law, he did it so he wouldn't cause himself, the driver behind him, and possibly the driver in front of him bodily injuries and I think that is a legitimate reason to break that traffic law, after all... the traffic laws are there for the safety of drivers and pedestrians.

we don't have a crystal ball to know what might have happened if he didn't change lanes, its just the drivers-our opinion what he think might have happened. He could have caused an accident by cutting off a driver in the HOV doing +100KMH which would mean you getting hit maybe on your side of the car or rear ended. Would the driver also have time to check his review mirror to check if a vehicle was too close and may not stop in time? and then check his side mirror to see if the HOV lane was clear? If he had time to do all of that then he wasn't too close to the car in front. I think. If he was in the center lane than he would have no choice but to do a panic stop, thats saying if all the lanes were clogged to the right or left of him.
Where was the cop when he observed you in the HOV lane?
Does this offense mean losing points on you license? if so thats not right and you have every reason to fight it. If no points pay the fine and move on...paying a small fine is better than getting into an accident which will cost you more than a ticket.

[Fuman]

In defensive driving lessons, you are taught to keep an eye on your rear view mirror, and an eye on an escape route. I believe the OP has has the experience and knowledge to judge the car's speed behind him. Furthermore, the HOV lane was clear, and he made the lane change safely. Based on what has happened, and not on 'what-ifs', I believe the OP has a legit reason on fighting this ticket of his.

[JSI]

Ontario's driving laws are so homosexual like our government. This country is full of communism..

LOL, but really I think the driving force behind this is capitalism.
Traffic law enforcement should be a much lower priority for the police forces within Canada. In my mind there are much more important things these officers should be doing to protect the civilians within out society. However these types of infractions are the biggest money makers therefore more emphasis is placed on them than is appropriate. That is just my opinion but it seems to fit the bill, maybe I’m wrong but I would love to hear others opinions?

Jeremy

[mazda lover]

In defensive driving lessons, you are taught to keep an eye on your rear view mirror, and an eye on an escape route. I believe the OP has has the experience and knowledge to judge the car's speed behind him. Furthermore, the HOV lane was clear, and he made the lane change safely. Based on what has happened, and not on 'what-ifs', I believe the OP has a legit reason on fighting this ticket of his.


you can't keep an eye on your mirrors every few seconds because thats how fast things can change doing 100KMH +
I agree with the HOV lanes they have eliminated a emergency exit also defensive driving lessons
teach use to keep a safe distance...

[Unoriginalusername]

you can't keep an eye on your mirrors every few seconds because thats how fast things can change doing 100KMH +

I used to do inline speed skating and was on the national team for 5 years where you race in tight packs of people and can reach over 50kpmh in a sprint. Traffic doesn't move at half the speed as keeping tabs on 40 of your competitors in a pack.

Driving is much the same, you need very good situational awarness, depth and speed perception to calculate your options. you may not be able to to keep focused on your surroundings when you drive, but i can and did which is why my car and i are in one piece.

pictures of the sport
http://www.patincolombia.com/imagenes2/2007/mundialcali/dia8/Joey%20Mantia%20-%20Campeon%20Maraton%20-%20Foto%20Luis%20Rmairez%20Colpressphotos.jpg
http://rollersportscan.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/2009-07-rsc-speed-2.jpg

[Aitch]

you can't keep an eye on your mirrors every few seconds because thats how fast things can change doing 100KMH +
I agree with the HOV lanes they have eliminated a emergency exit also defensive driving lessons
teach use to keep a safe distance...

Its because of how fast things change at 100+ km/h that you have to keep an eye on your mirrors. You have to be aware of all the cars around you (front and rear) and what they are doing, and what they could POTENTIALLY do, to make good decisions about keeping yourself and others safe.

The only way to leave yourself an "out" as you are taught in driver's ed, is to be aware of everything that is going on around you, and the one or two situations which are most likely to occur at any given time. Its when a driver doesn't do this or is unable to do this, that quick changes in direction to escape danger lead to an accident anyway. It sounds like UOU had a pretty good idea of the best way out of his situation, which unfortunately required him breaking a minor traffic law. I'd say fight the ticket to see if you can get it reduced, due to the reasonable explanation why you broke the law.

This isn't the same as getting caught speeding and getting it reduced just because you can (i.e. working the system).

[Fuman]

you can't keep an eye on your mirrors every few seconds because thats how fast things can change doing 100KMH +
I agree with the HOV lanes they have eliminated a emergency exit also defensive driving lessons
teach use to keep a safe distance...
If you are on the far left lane (on the right of HOV) like the OP was, your left side view mirror gives you a good view of traffic in HOV lane, probably 3-5 seconds back.
The OP was also at a full-stop, checking your mirrors constantly when stopped isn't hard.

[mazda lover]

I used to do inline speed skating and was on the national team for 5 years where you race in tight packs of people and can reach over 50kpmh in a sprint. Traffic doesn't move at half the speed as keeping tabs on 40 of your competitors in a pack.

Driving is much the same, you need very good situational awarness, depth and speed perception to calculate your options. you may not be able to to keep focused on your surroundings when you drive, but i can and did which is why my car and i are in one piece.

pictures of the sport
http://www.patincolombia.com/imagenes2/2007/mundialcali/dia8/Joey%20Mantia%20-%20Campeon%20Maraton%20-%20Foto%20Luis%20Rmairez%20Colpressphotos.jpg
http://rollersportscan.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/2009-07-rsc-speed-2.jpg


OK I confess I am on crack..lol
Where was the officer when he spotted you in the HOV lane?
I am with everybody fight the ticket, I am only looking at this as a by standard with a view-opinion.

[Unoriginalusername]

OK I confess I am on crack..lol
Where was the officer when he spotted you in the HOV lane?
I am with everybody fight the ticket, I am only looking at this as a by standard with a view-opinion.

parked on the emergency stop lane that used to be on the outside of the passing lane. Standing beside his car looking back at oncoming traffic.

[Unoriginalusername]

UPDATE: had my date in court today, and lost. The judge agreed with my case, but said its a matter of being in the lane or not being in the lane.

If i do an appeal, does the officer have to show up again and if so create another opportunity for them to potentially not arrive? If i go back I would look at representation as I still disagree with the decision based on the merit of my objection

[Thrizzl3]

so the judge wanted to to ram into the person infront of you..and then you get a ticket for following to close? i personally think that was an unfair decision by the judge seeing how you avoided an accident BUT you went into the HOV lane with no other passengers in the car. The least they could have done was to warn you...sheesh the government is pressing for so much money now they can't even let the smallest things slide.

[Fobio]

sorry and surprised to hear you lost.

thanks for the update and good luck on appeal!

[Unoriginalusername]

so the judge wanted to to ram into the person infront of you..and then you get a ticket for following to close? i personally think that was an unfair decision by the judge seeing how you avoided an accident BUT you went into the HOV lane with no other passengers in the car. The least they could have done was to warn you...sheesh the government is pressing for so much money now they can't even let the smallest things slide.

i thought for sure there was room for common sense, but apparently its as simple as either being in the lane or not in the lane and unless i had a witness to counter balance what the cops notes said its end of story