View Full Version : FYI - Rogers is changing Local Calling Areas
ghostdog
10-07-2009, 11:16 PM
From an email I received...
If you are using Rogers for your cell phone you are probably not aware
that
on
Oct 15th Rogers is changing the local calling area boundaries for
Toronto.
They
are shrinking it!
Here is a map of the new area:
http://downloads.rogers.com/wireless/maps/pi/en/R_TORONTO-LCA_maps.pdf
What does this mean? It depends on where you are located, but put it
this
way,
if you are in Pickering or Ajax, calling Toronto (416/647) will be a
LONG
DISTANCE call.
If you are under contract, Rogers are essentially altering the terms of
your
contract and hoping no one notices before it's too late for people to
complain.
Someone fought back and was able to get out of his Rogers contract
WITHOUT
penalty, although it was not easy.
You can read about it here:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1572104&page=1&pp=15
On another discussion on Red Flag Deals I read the following posting
related to
it:
http://www.redflagdeals.com/forums/showpost.php?p=9458307&postcount=36
MAZDA Kitten
10-07-2009, 11:37 PM
Its been coming for quite some time...
Anyone have pics of the current/old calling areas? I was able to locate the new calling area maps but how much does it differ?
omalak
10-07-2009, 11:47 PM
I guess when you have already secured a majority of the customer base, the only way to keep making more money is by shrinking your calling areas.
This is such bullshit.. they bring in people with high priced iphone plans, then shinrk the areas..
do you know if FIDO is following suit?
MAZDA Kitten
10-07-2009, 11:49 PM
I'm already composing my complaint letter. Not even gonna bother to call CS. Breach of contract. I am CC:ing BBB and my MP. Thats how you get shit done
I read on hofo that a few people were able to cancel their contracts without paying the ECF due to changing the terms of the contract.
MAZDA Kitten
10-07-2009, 11:58 PM
I read that too. Now with iPhone on Bellus maybe I am ready to jump ship
lol they are all big colluding thieves to me, they just come in different colours; the red one, the blue one, and the green one that likes monkeys.
i would use the material change in contract excuse and get out of my contract and hold out for the new companies, but i don't wanna lose my # :(
MAZDA Kitten
10-08-2009, 12:07 AM
you can port
you need to have an active plan to port numbers. so if i cancel rogers, i have to sign up with bell or telus to keep my number. and rogers only gives 30 days to cancel the contract due to shrinking the local calling area, and it doesn't look like the new guys will be launching by then.
i asked rogers if i can cancel my contract and port my number to a pay as you go account, but they said no lol.
STeeLy
10-08-2009, 04:03 AM
I was with Fido and I was able to take my number with my from my pay as you go to my current account on a plan.
Though this doesn't really concern me, I have unlimited calling throughout Canada, that really sucks for you guys living in the GTA and calling TO is long distance.
cereal83
10-08-2009, 08:40 AM
I think with the link to the map. The red is the old area and the yellow is the new area. Sucks balls but what can you do? If one company does it, everybody seems to follow!
Krazy
10-08-2009, 08:48 AM
It sucks... Even though Fido and Rogers is practically same company....
Fido started waiving the 6.95 system access fee.. and Rogers hasn't.
So stupid.
Mazda Kitten - Can you keep us updated with what happens with your email? I would love to get out of my contract -_- as this is becoming a bs.
lol guess what..i just got a call from wind mobile this morning, i got hired :chuckle i'll be leaving rogers asap!
It sucks... Even though Fido and Rogers is practically same company....
Fido started waiving the 6.95 system access fee.. and Rogers hasn't.
So stupid.
Mazda Kitten - Can you keep us updated with what happens with your email? I would love to get out of my contract -_- as this is becoming a bs.
Rogers is changing the system access fee structure (as of oct 15th).
They are removing the "S.A.F" and adding $5 to all plans. All plans will new plans will now include Callwaiting, call forwarding, and who called. There will also be an "government regulatory recovery fee" (which they say is not a gov tax) depending on your province. For ontario its $2.58.
So in the end you're paying a couple cents more than before. You have a choice of keeping the old format or the new format, you should be receiving 30 day notice letters from rogers. This isn't a valid reason to terminate contracts without paying ECF's though, unfortunately.
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/09/22/rogers-scrapping-system-access-fee.html
http://www.rogers.com/web/content/grrf?cm_mmc=Redirects-_-Consumer_Wireless_Eng-_-regulatory%20fee-_-regulatoryfee
mazda_gurl
10-08-2009, 11:55 AM
I called rogers on this and they basically said we can do whatever we want to you and you have to tough your contract out.
But they did offer me a $5 Long distance plan. I said thats Bullsh*t. Im not interested in paying for another feature because YOU decided to reduce my calling area.
So I get it for free for the duration of my contract. Im still going to find a way to cancel without paying an ECF. I left Telus to go to rogers (I didnt want to but I really wanted the iPhone) and now I want to go back. Anyhow, Im trying to decipher the terms cause it sounds like my option is to opt out of new services and stay at the existing plan, opt out and pay ECF or accept new terms?!?!?! WTF?
yup you have a choice in regards to the new fees; keep the old format or drop the S.A.F and pay the gov recovery fee. The only reason they are doing this is so that when someone calls and says, "hey rogers, how come the new companies don't require system access fees but you guys still have it?" Rogers can now say, "what are you talking about? we don't have system access fees anymore!" They are recovering the money they're losing by raising all plans by $5..so now there's a hidden S.A.F. Pure BS.
as for canceling your contract, this reason isn't good enough lol. the way rogers sees it, the S.A.F is not part of the agreement we had with them. so they can raise those fees as they see fit and its not considered a material change. which is also BS because it is a material change; if i had known i would be charged these fees at the time i signed my contract, it would have definitely affected my decision.
if you reallywanna end you contract without paying the ECF, use the local calling area shrinkage reason. that's what i'm gonna do soon.
oh and if you call and they ever tell you that you can either accept the new terms or opt out AND pay the ECF, tell them to goto hell and ask to speak with their supervisor/manager
mazda_gurl
10-08-2009, 12:43 PM
yup you have a choice in regards to the new fees; keep the old format or drop the S.A.F and pay the gov recovery fee. The only reason they are doing this is so that when someone calls and says, "hey rogers, how come the new companies don't require system access fees but you guys still have it?" Rogers can now say, "what are you talking about? we don't have system access fees anymore!" They are recovering the money they're losing by raising all plans by $5..so now there's a hidden S.A.F. Pure BS.
as for canceling your contract, this reason isn't good enough lol. the way rogers sees it, the S.A.F is not part of the agreement we had with them. so they can raise those fees as they see fit and its not considered a material change. which is also BS because it is a material change; if i had known i would be charged these fees at the time i signed my contract, it would have definitely affected my decision.
if you reallywanna end you contract without paying the ECF, use the local calling area shrinkage reason. that's what i'm gonna do soon.
oh and if you call and they ever tell you that you can either accept the new terms or opt out AND pay the ECF, tell them to goto hell and ask to speak with their supervisor/manager
Thats what I called about - I dont care about the SAF lol.
Rogers basically told me to go suck a tit about cancelling without paying ECF because they changed the calling areas.......they said they can do it and if I dont agree to the terms, my only option is to opt out and pay the ECF for my remaining months.
Also, if you check the rogers PDF here - there are two maps.....looks like OUTGOING is the only impact here in terms of coverage shrinking......
So I will be charged for outgoing calls, but shouldnt pay for incoming (although I am close to the grey border.) (See pages 1 & 2)
http://downloads.rogers.com/wireless/maps/pi/en/R_Toronto-LCA_maps.pdf
Thats what I called about - I dont care about the SAF lol.
Rogers basically told me to go suck a tit about cancelling without paying ECF because they changed the calling areas.......they said they can do it and if I dont agree to the terms, my only option is to opt out and pay the ECF for my remaining months.
Also, if you check the rogers PDF here - there are two maps.....looks like OUTGOING is the only impact here in terms of coverage shrinking......
So I will be charged for outgoing calls, but shouldnt pay for incoming (although I am close to the grey border.) (See pages 1 & 2)
http://downloads.rogers.com/wireless/maps/pi/en/R_Toronto-LCA_maps.pdf
WOW :| i'm totally shocked they expect you to pay ECF. they freakin changed their service and except everyone to accept it? WTF??!
If you make a lot of outgoing calls to those grey areas outside the black border, your bill is gonna change drastically. WTF is wrong with these idiots...
I'm gonna call today too. Did they transfer you to retentions?
mazda_gurl
10-08-2009, 01:45 PM
WOW :| i'm totally shocked they expect you to pay ECF. they freakin changed their service and except everyone to accept it? WTF??!
If you make a lot of outgoing calls to those grey areas outside the black border, your bill is gonna change drastically. WTF is wrong with these idiots...
I'm gonna call today too. Did they transfer you to retentions?
Yup, spoke to retentions....the first guy I mentioned this to in CS had no clue and left me on hold for 5 mins while he looked into it. Then he came back surprised to hear that this was happening. My first beef is 1. I was never told about this change by Rogers directly. 2. How do their own staff not know about this? Clearly, they are not properly communicating this to clients.
So he said, if you like you can add a LD plan to your phone, we have different LD options available. I said Eff that? Im not looking to pay for a LD plan because Rogers decided to reduce its calling area. So he transferred me to retentions cause I said as a consumer, I want to know what my rights are in terms of opting out of a significant change. Thats when the girl in retentions told me that I was SOL and that she would give me the free LD plan. Im not sure Im done this fight just yet :)
Yup, spoke to retentions....the first guy I mentioned this to in CS had no clue and left me on hold for 5 mins while he looked into it. Then he came back surprised to hear that this was happening. My first beef is 1. I was never told about this change by Rogers directly. 2. How do their own staff not know about this? Clearly, they are not properly communicating this to clients.
So he said, if you like you can add a LD plan to your phone, we have different LD options available. I said Eff that? Im not looking to pay for a LD plan because Rogers decided to reduce its calling area. So he transferred me to retentions cause I said as a consumer, I want to know what my rights are in terms of opting out of a significant change. Thats when the girl in retentions told me that I was SOL and that she would give me the free LD plan. Im not sure Im done this fight just yet :)
check this out (you may have seen it already): http://www.howardforums.com/showpost.php?p=13037273&postcount=23
its from this thread:
http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1572104&page=1&pp=15
mazda lover
10-08-2009, 02:05 PM
Glad I don't have a cell phone, how many of us really really need one? I pay enough for cable and internet, can't imagine what my 3 month bill would be with a cell phone added...?
Glad I don't have a cell phone, how many of us really really need one? I pay enough for cable and internet, can't imagine what my 3 month bill would be with a cell phone added...?
lol right now i'm only tied to rogers for TV and wireless. my internet is with teksavvy and my home phone is with freephoneline.ca..haven't paid for home phone service for like 3 months now
i'm on the phone with rogers right now. first of all, i had to point him to the pdf map of the area cuz he had no idea of the change. second, after being on hold for 10 mins he said notifications were sent out from aug 15 to sept 14 about the new changes. he said my notification was mailed to me with my bill. i was said wth? i get ebilling, your ebilling service does not allow attachments so there is no way that could have happened
MAZDA Kitten
10-08-2009, 02:46 PM
Bottom line. Keep fighting. They will try to bully you. I've had the $5 1000LD for the past 4 years now but due to shrinking LCA I cant risk going over 1000 min therefore I need unlimited. I'm all over the GTA/Hamilton (both areas affected)
mazda_gurl
10-08-2009, 02:47 PM
i'm on the phone with rogers right now. first of all, i had to point him to the pdf map of the area cuz he had no idea of the change. second, after being on hold for 10 mins he said notifications were sent out from aug 15 to sept 14 about the new changes. he said my notification was mailed to me with my bill. i was said wth? i get ebilling, your ebilling service does not allow attachments so there is no way that could have happened
Thats my point?!?!?! How the hell could they have notified customers who are on e-billing. And secondly, if there is a mass communication like this going out, shouldnt the Rogers Reps be aware of this change?
MAZDA Kitten
10-08-2009, 02:48 PM
Mazda Kitten - Can you keep us updated with what happens with your email? I would love to get out of my contract -_- as this is becoming a bs.
I sure will.
Not necessairly I want to leave Rogers per se I just unlimited LD :complain
Thats my point?!?!?! How the hell could they have notified customers who are on e-billing. And secondly, if there is a mass communication like this going out, shouldnt the Rogers Reps be aware of this change?
i asked to transfer to retentions. i asked the retentions rep to up my ebill and show me where the notification was. she couldn't find. she instead pointed me to section 15 of the rogers terms of service outlined on page 2 of the bill. she said i have 2 options, i have to suck it up and accept the changes, or terminate the contract, pay the ecf "and i am free to take any legal means necessary to dispute the ecf". RIDICULOUS! i'm on hold again, my case is being escalated to a manager...
mazda_gurl
10-08-2009, 03:03 PM
Thats what they said to me!
Ugh - that write up on HOFO about this was great.
Im thinking about calling back and going for broke - cancel me or give me free LD
lol i'm on with the manager now. the guys seems nice but he doesn't know about the changes either LMFAO! he's looking into it now.
he originally said "i dont see why you have a problem with rogers improving your service?" i was like what the f****!!! how is this an improvement, and had to educate him. he asked if i was a lawyer or an aspiring lawyer. i said no, i;m a well informed university student, you don't need to be a lawyer to understand this is not right.
i dunno if i should laugh or cry
EDIT: i ended up getting free unlimited long distance for the duration of my contract, which works out better cuz now i can call friends in vancouver :chuckle
cwp_sedan
10-08-2009, 03:23 PM
Just tell them you want 100 or 1000 LD minutes included in your plan. Done and done, problem solved.
The whole SAF issue is stupid. Eventually I'll have a credit applied to have it removed, then I won't have to worry about it. You just need to know how to manipulate Rogers. It's quite easy to do really. I save over $70 a month on my bundles without having to raise my voice at all. :)
Just tell them you want 100 or 1000 LD minutes included in your plan. Done and done, problem solved.
The whole SAF issue is stupid. Eventually I'll have a credit applied to have it removed, then I won't have to worry about it. You just need to know how to manipulate Rogers. It's quite easy to do really. I save over $70 a month on my bundles without having to raise my voice at all. :)
lol yup i call them every 2 months apart so i dont get red flagged.
if anyone wants to add long distance to your plan:
call retentions, tell them the LCA change has had or will have a negative impact on your wireless use. they will say you need to pay the ECF if you wanna terminate the contract. ask to speak with a manager. once the manager understands the situation, he/she will counteroffer with $5 LD for 1000 mins. explain you don't want to be afraid of going over 1000 mins, and that before the LCA change it used to be unlimited calling to the areas affected. he/she should then offer the $20 canada wide LD plan for free. I agreed to this because cancelling my contract meant losing my # as there is not another account to port it to; the # will go back into the rogers pool and there is no way of retrieving it.
if you want to fully cancel your contract, just keep rejecting all offers from the manager. but it will be tough to explain why you don't want to accept the free long distance offer he/she is giving you, especially since the reason you're calling to cancel is for fear of ridiculous LD charges.
good luck! let me know how it goes
mazda lover
10-08-2009, 09:37 PM
lol right now i'm only tied to rogers for TV and wireless. my internet is with teksavvy and my home phone is with freephoneline.ca..haven't paid for home phone service for like 3 months now
whats the catch with freephone? nothing is free. not even sex with the wife...lol
whats the catch with freephone? nothing is free. not even sex with the wife...lol
LMAO. ya i thought there was a catch too, but i read a lot of good reviews. so far so good. Its totally free to use the windows based SIP software, so you make\receive calls using your PC. You do however have to pay a one time fee though if you wanna use your physical phones ie. you need to purchase an ATA adapter (costs like $50 at canada computers) and you need to pay the company $50 to get the SIP settings from them. I also paid $20 to transfer my bell #. I bought everything, rewired by house to cut off the connection to bell and rewired the jacks to be able to use my physical handsets. works great, even faxes work.
The company makes money off of commercial users and some residential users. Their thinking is, if we give people free phone lines, they might also want our internet service ($30/month), or they might pay for more advanced business phone services.
my thinking is, if the service turns sour, i can just take my ATA and switch to another company, all I lose is the initial $50. :)
slam525i
10-09-2009, 08:50 AM
nothing is free. not even sex with the wife...lol
LMAO. ya i thought there was a catch too, but i read a lot of good reviews. so far so good.
So, the way I read the above came out terribly wrong... :chuckle
marvin24k
10-09-2009, 09:02 AM
whats the catch with freephone? nothing is free. not even sex with the wife...lol
Nothing is free! you got that right ;)
So, the way I read the above came out terribly wrong... :chuckle
hahaha i didn't even notice that
mazda lover
10-09-2009, 11:51 AM
lol right now i'm only tied to rogers for TV and wireless. my internet is with teksavvy and my home phone is with freephoneline.ca..haven't paid for home phone service for like 3 months now
freephone will probably at a future date say that the service is no longer free and will start charging for their service..just a guess
kjb86
10-09-2009, 12:04 PM
oh man, seems like Rogers is really gonna feel the pain soon.. I use their service because I believe GSM is better than CDMA, but man, they are gonna sink hard.
It seems like Rogers is doing nothing pro-active while Bell/Telus prepare their HSPA overlay launch as well as the new players about to launch very soon. All Rogers seems to be doing is panicking about their monopoly.. raising prices/trying whatever they can do to lock people in for 3 years and then change their upgrade policy to keep them locked, now with the local calling area shrinkage.. haha
I dunno what's next... They offer no good devices but swear that "we invest heavily in providing the most up-to-date data devices for our customers" hhaha
They're all just marketing tactics.. HSPA+? pfft.. it's just there to say "hey we're the fastest" meanwhile no phone on the market even supports speeds of up to 21 Mbit/s...
maybe we should have an official daily complaints thread lol
Xenon
10-09-2009, 12:10 PM
Wow... that really sucks. I live in Mississauga, and I have friends in Oakville... According to that map, that is a long distance call? 5 min drive = Long distance.
Thank god I have unlimited text messaging!
lol don't worry guys, once i start my training on the 26th for wind, i'll give the inside scoop.
if you want something from rogers, like free features thrown in, now is the time. call them up and ask why you should stay with them
Scottobot
10-09-2009, 02:11 PM
Just curious:
- I was under the impression that the changes primarily affect incoming calls?
- Has anyone compared the new Rogers LCA's to those of Bell and Telus?
- According to that map, I don't think Mississauga-Oakville is a long distance call, considering it says for outgoing calls "Any call made from a Rogers Wireless phone within the yellow area to a local number (or number based) in the yellow/red area is local". If you have a Toronto number and receive a call in Oakville though it would be long distance.. but I think that's the case for all carriers.
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