Alignment Issues

[mazdabetty]

So I've been having issues with alignment all summer. My car seems to be pulling to the right, I've had it aligned 3 times, twice to a dealership in the Ottawa area and once at Agincourt.

When I had it done at Agincourt I was given a spec sheet of what it was set at before and after. Currently it's within the specs, and it definitely has less of a pull than it did before. But it seems to be worsening each day.

Does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? It almost seems like the steering wheel itself just turns to the right, it's weird. But I was told that the steering wheel was aligned during my last visit. Just as a note, it pulls all the time at all speeds, and before I get the usual "did you check your tire PSI" grilling, yes the tires have been topped up and checked each time.

The tires I have on now (all season no-name brand crap :chuckle) came with the car, but I brought it home with new winters on, so this would be my first time driving with the all season ones. I didn't have any issue with the new winters, could this be a result of uneven wear? They don't appear to be wearing unevenly and I wasn't given a heads up that this could be a possibility... also, another dealership had told me that the pulling could be a result of my rear bushings rusting out of place... but I was told several times afterward by different dealerships that this was not at all a possibility.

I'm pretty confused at this point and just want the pulling to stop so I can drive like a normal person!!! LOL... I've researched a few threads here but there was never a post as to what the outcome was. So if anyone has any input that would be much appreciated :)

[Noisy Crow]

Did you check your tire pressure?

[stormin84]

does anyone have any idea what could be causing this? It almost seems like the steering wheel itself just turns to the right, it's weird. But i was told that the steering wheel was aligned during my last visit. Just as a note, it pulls all the time at all speeds, and before i get the usual "did you check your tire psi" grilling, yes the tires have been topped up and checked each time.




did you check your tire pressure?


haha

[Noisy Crow]

haha

Damn.... I did scan through the posts for that... didn't see it. :bang Oh well... has anyone asked about dragging brakes on one side yet?

[S.F.W.]

I know you mentioned you had an alignment done, and checked the tire pressure. However, what about a wheel balance? Specifically, a road force balance?
If the balance of the wheels are off, your car will pull regardless of alignment.
As well, have tou had the wheels checked to ensure they are true, and not bent?

[Flagrum_3]

Ash, I'd suspect a bad tire first (You did mention cheapy tires right?), then a bent rim, amongst other possibilties.

But get the tires checked asap....Don't want to scare you but you don't want the tire to rip apart on the hwy like we've seen a few go already.


_3

[Shawn]

I have had a very small pull to the right on my 2007 since new. Not a big deal, but gets tiring after a long drive. Even after alignment, rotation and different set of wheels.
I wonder if this is the same, could it be related to power steering or could the steering angle sensor do this?
On old cars sometimes you need to centre the steering pressures balance. Maybe TheMan knows?

[mazdabetty]

Noisy Crow: hahaha, sorry.. it was a long post. Just wanted to make sure I got all necessary info out. Dragging brakes? Would that be an issue indicated by the car pulling only when braking? Because it pulls all the time, when braking and using the gas. :(

S.F.W.: All wheels were balanced, I specifically know this because I originally brought it in on my first visit due to some hardcore vibration, which had been addressed along with an alignment. Having the wheels check to see if they're bent is a good call, didn't think about that one.... maybe I'll ask next time, not sure how I would be able to tell if it's bent myself...

Flagrum_3: ahhhhhhh!!!!!!!!! Really? Karen mentioned something about that too, but I didn't really understand... could that happen? How would that work exactly and why would that cause a pull? (And you have successfully scared me. Two days before my trek back to Ottawa... THANKS!!!! :chuckle)

Shawn: IT DOES get annoying after a long drive. Especially 4-5 hour drives :bang I'm pretty sure Agincourt aligned the steering wheel as well... is this what you mean? I hope it's not some other crazy underlying steering issue... I'm fine with the bad tire scenario (as long as it doesn't blow on me... lol)

Thanks for the input so far guys!

[condor888000]

A bent rim would show up when the tires were balanced. What you should do, go look at all the wheels and see if you see a big line of weights. If one has significantly more than the others that indicates either a bent rim, or a bad tire. However, since you've had it checked numerous times I don't think that's the problem. Any tech with more than a months experience would mention if there were any such issues.

In any case, a bent rim or bad tire would be more likely to cause a vibration than a pull. A pull to me suggests either bad alignment, or brake issue.

You said you had a spec sheet of your most recent alignment, can you post up what you have? F/R camber, F/R toe, and F caster should be enough.

As for the dragging brakes, have you noticed any excessive dust or dirt on one wheel? If so, that would indicate to me that the pads are constantly being pressed lightly against the rotors, which could cause the issue. It could be something as simple as an improperly lubed set of brake pins, but again the dealers should have checked that...

[Noisy Crow]

Noisy Crow: hahaha, sorry.. it was a long post. Just wanted to make sure I got all necessary info out. Dragging brakes? Would that be an issue indicated by the car pulling only when braking? Because it pulls all the time, when braking and using the gas. :(


Meh, it's what I get for trying to do two things at once! In any case, if you have something like a stuck caliper or stuck parking brake cable it is possible that one corner if the car is dragging a bit.

Another possibility is the power steering is flaky is someway... I'd have to look at the shop manual to have any sort of informed opinon... but maybe some debris got into the system and is preventing a valve from closing or something like that.

[Shawn]

Shawn: IT DOES get annoying after a long drive. Especially 4-5 hour drives I'm pretty sure Agincourt aligned the steering wheel as well... is this what you mean? I hope it's not some other crazy underlying steering issue... I'm fine with the bad tire scenario (as long as it doesn't blow on me... lol)

Betty. I don't mean steering wheel being straight, I mean the feedback circuit in the steering system which is somehow interactive. Shop manual is not clear to me.
My 2007 had the brakes serviced also, so it is not brake drag.

[dentinger]

swap the tires from one side to the other. if you start pulling the opposite way, its the tires.
thats usually what we do at the shop.

[condor888000]

Uh, better hope the tires aren't directional.

[Default User]

Doesn't the shop test drive after the alignment and just re-adjust to compensate pulls?

Not tryin to imply ANYTHING, but my buddy's car was straight as an arrow on paper - but he's HUSKY, so the car would still pull to the left. So the shop readjusted to compensate.

[dentinger]

Uh, better hope the tires aren't directional.

if its for diagnostic purposes, i dont see how being directional would be an issue. we're just talking about driving a few km's to see if the pulling changes at all.


Doesn't the shop test drive after the alignment and just re-adjust to compensate pulls?


they should. we always do.

[mazdabetty]

You said you had a spec sheet of your most recent alignment, can you post up what you have? F/R camber, F/R toe, and F caster should be enough.

I do, I will post that when I get home tomorrow... And as for the brakes being a possibility, they have recently been replaced so they should be perfectly fine but I'll mention that when I bring it in again...


swap the tires from one side to the other. if you start pulling the opposite way, its the tires.
thats usually what we do at the shop.

I think they were rotated the first time I brought it in...



Doesn't the shop test drive after the alignment and just re-adjust to compensate pulls?

Not tryin to imply ANYTHING, but my buddy's car was straight as an arrow on paper - but he's HUSKY, so the car would still pull to the left. So the shop readjusted to compensate.

:chuckle hahahah, that's not a possibility.... I'm most definitely NOT a husky girl lol, and even if I was, the car would be pulling to the left I think right? hhahaha...

Anyway I'm not sure if it was tested after alignment... I think I was told it was, but like I said it felt better sorta when I left the dealership but it feels like it gets worse every day, or maybe Im just noticing it more and becoming more irritated by it each day haha.

[Default User]

LOL

I was just sayin.....not that there's antlything wrong with that....



I meant that they are supposed to compensate for any pulls after the alignment & test drive - L or R....husky or non-husky

[condor888000]

if its for diagnostic purposes, i dont see how being directional would be an issue. we're just talking about driving a few km's to see if the pulling changes at all.

Besides the fact they may not behave the same in the opposite direction? Adding another variable unnecessarily IMO.

[dentinger]

very true.

[mazdabetty]

Soooo here are the numbers from the sheet I was given from my last alignment on Sep. 25... not exactly suuure how this will help but here they are anyway! :)

Front Left
Camber
Actual -0.3
Before -0.4
Specified Range -1.7 / 0.3

Caster
Actual 2.6
Before 2.6
Specified Range 2.0 / 4.0

Toe
Actual 0.09
Before 0.22
Specified Range -0.9 / 0.28

SAI
Actual 14.1
Before 14.1

Included Angle
Actual 13.8
Before 13.8

Front Right
Camber
Actual -1.1
Before -1.1
Specified Range -1.7 / 0.3

Caster
Actual 3.1
Before 3.1
Specified Range 2.0 / 4.0

Toe
Actual -0.01
Before 0.03
Specified Range -0.9 / 0.28

SAI
Actual 14.4
Before 14.4

Included Angle
Actual 13.4
Before 13.4

Front
Cross Camber
Actual 0.7
Before 0.7
Specified Range -1.5 / 1.5

Cross Caster
Actual -0.6
Before -0.6
Specified Range -1.5 / 1.5

Cross SAI
Actual -0.3
Before -0.3

Total Toe
Actual 0.08
Before 0.26
Specified Range -0.18 / 0.55

Rear Left
Camber
Actual -1.8
Before -1.8
Specified Range -2.3 / -0.3

Toe
Actual -0.07
Before -0.07
Specified Range -0.09 / 0.28

Rear Right
Camber
Actual -1.8
Before -1.9
Specified Range -2.3 / -0.3

Toe
Actual -0.09
Before -0.30
Specified Range -0.09 / 0.28

Rear
Cross Camber
Actual 0.0
Before 0.2
Specified Range -1.5 / 1.5

Total Toe
Actual -0.16
Before 0.23
Specified Range -0.18 / 0.55

Thrust Angle
Actual 0.01
Before -0.19
Specified Range -0.80 / 0.80

[condor888000]

Holy CRAP! That's an alignment issue right there.

Simple stuff that matter, front camber, front toe, rear camber, rear toe.

Front

Camber Left: -0.3*
Camber Right: -1.1*
Cross Camber: 0.8*

Cross camber should be 0* or 0.2* at the MOST, not 0.8*.

Toe Left: 0.09 (this is toe IN, so the wheel is pointing in that much)
Toe Right: -0.01 (this is toe OUT, so the tire is tracking out very slightly)

So your right wheel is pointed a bit right, and your left wheel is pointed more right. Hence car pulls right. That cross caster isn't the best either, but that's not the problem. The toe and camber is.

Rear looks fine at least.

EDIT: Actually...no it doesn't. What the hell, you're right at the most toe out in the rear, so both tires are pointed outwards to the max spec. Won't cause a pull since they're pretty even, but still, not ideal, 0 toe or slight toe in is better.

Here's the problem with Mazda specs, they're so vague that even though you're within spec, you're going to get weird driving dynamics.

[mazdabetty]

SHUT UP really????


ahhaha... that's seriously what's causing the pull? (this stuff is wayyyy beyond me lol) I love you right now if you've just solved this mystery that no one can figure out!!! LOL... sooooo, I should take this info and show them I suppose and get it re-aligned... thankyouthankyouthankyouuuuuuu!!!!! :hawt

EDIT: Oops just saw your edit, it's still the front that would be causing this pull though right? The rear shouldn't be affecting it too much even though it's a little off?

[condor888000]

Yeah, alignment places are hit and miss. They do it to spec, which is ok, as long as all the specs are similar. When you start getting numbers like that....its not good. That toe especially, what the hell is going on.

The best places take the time to make sure they're equal, but not everyone has that level of dedication.

For the record, I run -1.1* of camber in the front, -1.3* in the rear, and 0 toe all around. Car handles very well. I know thats what the tech aligned to, because I was under the car with him when he did it.

I suggest you ask them to set 1/32nd of an inch toe IN for each front wheel. Ask them to make sure they're equal, thats where the problem is. In the rear ask for either 0 toe or 1/32nd of an inch toe in just like in the front.

Here's hoping this fixes it for you, but looking at those specs, I really think thats the issue.

[mazdabetty]

Wow that's pretty specific!! Thanks again I'll definitely talk to them about that.

One more question, if I get it re-aligned and put my winters on after, would this affect the alignment at all?

[condor888000]

For the record, the rear is not a big place of concern. It's just not a great setting for the street. You can leave it the way it is and there should be no pull. It's the front that would be the issue IMO.

No, unless there are suspension parts changed (struts or springs for example) you will not need another alignment.