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MistaChin
10-20-2009, 01:44 PM
PURE BULLSHIT

http://www.wheels.ca/Article%20Category/article/782513


Oct 20, 2009


James Daw
Personal Finance Columnist

Millions of Ontario drivers are about to be slammed with double-digit premium hikes, with the average Toronto-area driver likely to pay nearly 14 per cent more.

Ten insurers serving more than a quarter of Ontario drivers have just been cleared to raise their rates a second or third time in about 12 months.

Their policyholders will be hit with increases averaging between 11 and 19 per cent when the policies come up for renewal, joining drivers insured by several other companies that had already been cleared for double-digit increases. Another seven companies have been cleared for smaller increases in the latest round of approvals.

But these are only provincial averages, which do not represent what most GTA drivers can expect to pay.

Calculations by the Star show that Toronto-area policyholders of the 17 companies face an average increase of 14 per cent, while in the province as a whole drivers will see an increase of 9.1 per cent.

But some Toronto-area drivers — depending on the company they are with, their driving record and the neighbourhood they live in — face increases of 30 per cent or more.

"The big cost driver in Ontario, and even more so in the Greater Toronto Area, is accident benefits costs," said Leonard Sharman of Co-operators General Insurance Co.

"Things like assessments, medical rehabilitation, physiotherapy costs, etc., have been increasing pretty dramatically, and this is most pronounced in the GTA."

His company has been allowed two increases totalling 8.57 per cent since the middle of last year. But its GTA increases would be 11 and 14 per cent, said Sharman, warning there is more to come in March.

Don Forgeron, president of the Insurance Bureau of Canada, said "insurers are doing all that they have at their disposal (in the face of rising demands for treatment and compensation) — to pass those cost increases on to consumers.

"I guess we, like everybody else, are waiting with anticipation for an announcement by government. We think we have made a credible case for substantive reform, and we hope we have been heard."

Insurers complain the only means they have to stand up to what they see as excess requests for assessment and treatment of mainly minor sprain, strain and whiplash injuries is to order their own costly assessments.

While Finance Minister Dwight Duncan is expected to announce changes to auto insurance policies within days or weeks, it won't be this week.

A spokesperson says his fall update of the budget Thursday is his first priority.

The Financial Services Commission of Ontario said in its latest quarterly announcement it had cleared insurers serving a third of Ontario to raise rates an average of 6.2 per cent.

But that was just the latest rate change for the 17 insurers. When compounded with increases approved over 12 months, the increase will be 9.1 per cent as annual policies are renewed.

To come up with its estimate of 14 per cent in the GTA, the Star took that 9.1 per cent provincial figure and added the same amount extra that Co-operators revealed Monday its Toronto policyholders would pay.

The average premium per auto in the GTA was $1,682 last year. A 14 per cent increase would take the average to $1,917.

Insurers serving about 27 per cent of drivers have been granted double-digit province-wide increases. These include AXA Insurance (Canada) at 12.2 per cent, Kingsway General Insurance (recently renamed Jevco Insurance) at 21.2 per cent, State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance at 12.5 per cent and Wawanesa Mutual Insurance Co. at 15.1 per cent.

Drivers with Pembridge Insurance Co. Ltd., who already paid some of the highest premiums due to multiple accidents or driving infractions, will see rates rise an average of 18.8 per cent.

Based on Co-operator's experience, that could translate into an average increase of nearly 30 per cent in the Toronto area for drivers with poor records.

A spokesperson for Pembridge said he could not reach executives to confirm the actual figures.

Meanwhile, drivers with a perfectly fine driving record are facing extra demands to keep their preferred insurance rates with Economical Mutual Insurance Co.

The company is notifying brokers that owners of old vehicles must update and have all drivers in their household sign applications for insurance, to ensure all the information on record is current. In addition, they must have their vehicles inspected.

Randy Carroll, chief executive of the Insurance Brokers Association of Ontario, said most brokers would prefer not to put their clients through the inconvenience.

But he said they are getting pressure from other insurers not to switch Economical clients to their companies, as the insurer for 6.2 per cent of Ontario drivers suffered the heaviest losses in the industry last year.

Noel Walpole, president of Economical, said his company would prefer not to require policyholders to complete an entirely new application form.

Unfortunately, regulators have taken weeks to approve a shorter, more efficient method of updating client information.

Andrew Wicken, general manager of InsuranceHotline.com, said he cannot promise drivers, who use his website to search for the lowest auto insurance premium, will find savings these days.

"But it is particularly important to shop the market when we see increases like this," he said.

"Consumers cannot control these increases, but they can control other things that affect their rates," Wicken said.

Thrizzl3
10-20-2009, 01:52 PM
so we will be paying double now?

MistaChin
10-20-2009, 01:54 PM
so we will be paying double now?

On average, there will be an increase of 14%. But some drivers will see a hike of as much as 30% or more.

I need to get out of this city, it's becoming such an expensive place to live in.

Cardinal Fang
10-20-2009, 02:02 PM
I'm going to have to become a prostitute on the side to pay for this. Let me tell you that's not a pretty sight boys.

SirWanker
10-20-2009, 03:36 PM
On average, there will be an increase of 14%. But some drivers will see a hike of as much as 30% or more.

I need to get out of this city, it's becoming such an expensive place to live in.

If you reside in Toronto, you already pay an additional levy when you renew your plate sticker.

MistaChin
10-20-2009, 03:45 PM
If you reside in Toronto, you already pay an additional levy when you renew your plate sticker.

I know :( I found that out when I renewed in July.

Miller needs bunga bunga for that dick move. (pun)

fini
10-20-2009, 04:09 PM
the best part of justifying cost increases, not just insurance but in general is that everything is becoming more expensive.

but... if that's true.
WHERE IS OUR INCREASE IN PAY TO COMPENSATE for these "skyrocketing costs of XXXX"????

mazdaskit
10-20-2009, 04:14 PM
im already pay $430 a month now what its gonna be like 600 like what the hell:flaming

Junior
10-20-2009, 04:17 PM
Too many people making fuct up claims hurts everyone in the long run.

Sucks but true. I have zero compassion for people involved in low speed collisions and end up trying to ream the system for lots and lots of money. If your sickness is legit, do it up. But I've come across a handful of people that just milk it cause they feel they have the right.

ST3ALTH
10-20-2009, 04:24 PM
This is bullshit, thats all i have to say!

aris
10-20-2009, 04:31 PM
And they wonder why alot of people drive with out insurance:flaming

Flagrum_3
10-20-2009, 04:52 PM
And they wonder why alot of people drive with out insurance:flaming

...and alot do!! ...another reason Why legit people are paying so much.But it's all a scam...Sometimes makes you feel like the Insurance Companies and Government are in together to fark us motorists......I say we go back too government Insurance like in some other provinces. :)


_3

stitchflip
10-20-2009, 04:53 PM
I got this email from my boss today too!
and I replied back: "does that mean we'll be getting a huge raise coz people will be paying more premiums?!?"
She replied with a huge "NO" - which left me sitting there with a "F this s**t!" face.

omalak
10-20-2009, 04:57 PM
FSCO is a joke, those guys can't properly deliver on anything

Time to move to guelph

Dave_The_BMXER
10-20-2009, 05:00 PM
I JUST got my decrease for turning 25 this month and now it's going to increase to higher than when I was 19?

I demand my responsibilities and other bills roll back in kind.

Fuman
10-20-2009, 05:07 PM
guess its BMX next year...

yearoftherat
10-21-2009, 10:44 AM
I want to know whick 10 companies have been given the ok to raise their rates

MistaChin
10-21-2009, 10:50 AM
From the article, and to name a few.

Insurers serving about 27 per cent of drivers have been granted double-digit province-wide increases. These include AXA Insurance (Canada) at 12.2 per cent, Kingsway General Insurance (recently renamed Jevco Insurance) at 21.2 per cent, State Farm Mutual Automobile Insurance at 12.5 per cent and Wawanesa Mutual Insurance Co. at 15.1 per cent.

Drivers with Pembridge Insurance Co. Ltd., who already paid some of the highest premiums due to multiple accidents or driving infractions, will see rates rise an average of 18.8 per cent.

Iceman_F1
10-21-2009, 10:59 AM
the best part of justifying cost increases, not just insurance but in general is that everything is becoming more expensive.

but... if that's true.
WHERE IS OUR INCREASE IN PAY TO COMPENSATE for these "skyrocketing costs of XXXX"????

+1. Seriously! It's like this at my place pretty bad. All these costs are going up...yet pay is not. So what wasn't too bad about 1 or so years ago is now tough...


Too many people making fuct up claims hurts everyone in the long run.

Sucks but true. I have zero compassion for people involved in low speed collisions and end up trying to ream the system for lots and lots of money. If your sickness is legit, do it up. But I've come across a handful of people that just milk it cause they feel they have the right.

Yeah, also true. Thankfully I don't know anyone personally that does this...but it still sucks that the people who do this end up making it worse for everyone else :bang

I guess I'll see what happens when I'm up for renewal around March...

mazda lover
10-21-2009, 08:15 PM
This morning going south on the 404 I was doing about 105kph when 3 retards past me doing about 110-115. Th second car was about a half car length behind the first car and the third car was also about a half car length behind the second. Thats why these retards are the reason our insurance is going up.

GTS
10-23-2009, 02:51 PM
This is a crappy situation indeed...but hopefully I can provide some insight.

This is exactly what happens when insurance companies try to compete on price and price alone. In addition, the fact that the public is trained to think that lowest price insurance is ALWAYS the best way to go doesn't help the situation because everyone thinks they're 'getting screwed.'

Here's the first part of it. When a claim happens, the insurance company will likely pay out the claim assuming the customer has bought the right amount of insurance. Some of these payouts go towards liability (in case you kill someone or damage a building) or accident benefits (you take days off work because you're injured). A LOT of people milk the AB....imagine, you're stuck in a dead-end job, you hate your job, you dread waking up and going to work. You get into an accident and you get injured. You now have to go to physio, you rec've reimbursement for say...$400 a week because you're missing work. Doesn't sound too bad? So why not milk it, right?

Accident benefits (AB) payouts in Ontario are waaay above that of any other province and AB payouts specifically in the GTA is waay above that of any other city. So insurance companies are losing money on AB payouts. But insurance companies are collecting premiums from us, how could they possibly be losing money?? Well...read on...

Second part is when companies start competing on price and this creates a problem that is two-fold. They only accept the best drivers with the best records and charge them the lowest premium.

The first part of the problem is when you have low price insurance. All is good and great until you have a claim/ticket/accident etc etc. Aforementioned low priced companies will increase your premiums very high so they get you to cancel and find a new insurance company...or they'll choose not to renew you in the following year. So what happens? You, driver with a blemished record, is now forced to find new insurance. Now, think about it from a business perspective....why would another insurance company want to take on a client that a previous insurance company dropped? They wouldn't...or they'd charge a huge premium to do so.

Now, if the lower priced company chooses to renew you, then it's not too bad, but when they choose not to renew you (or you choose not to renew them) and you cannot find any reasonably priced insurance...you now think 'damn, insurance screwed me.' In addition, you now think that any other premium that is HIGHER than what you were previously paying is a rip-off and it's unfair and blah blah blah. Well, that's the trade off when you go with lowest price. You get low premium, but horrible service.

The second part of the problem relates to the first paragraph. Companies who basically lowball other companies in the industry. This forces other companies to compete on price as well. It's all good and great because we pay lower prices right? Well, not exactly. If a company is not collecting enough premiums to balance the amount of payouts on claims, they start losing money....so what happens when they start losing money? Premiums go up.

Hopefully, this will provide some clarification. I agree that is not fair, however, we cannot completely blame the industry for this. I'm not arguing for or against for insurance companies, but I'm just tryin to give an explanation of a possiblity of how this came about from a non-biased perspective. But then again...what the hell do I know about insurance, right?

jaimie08mazda3
10-23-2009, 04:41 PM
I think im going to cry. DID MY INSURANCE NOT JUST GO UP... IM NOT PAYING 14% OF WHAT I PAY FOR. i already pay 603 per month on my god damn car insurance.... NAH... I pay an arm and a leg and they want me to pay more... this is bull shit... pure and utter bull. Seriously its not like we all dont pay for it in the end. Yes i have gotten tickets yes I have gotten into accidents but the tickets were my fault... however the accidents were not. But unfortunately they see 19 year old guy driving new car ALARMS ALARMS CHARGE HIM OUT THE ASS. okay done my rant. INSURANCE COMPANIES SUCK... k noooooow im done

cwp_sedan
10-23-2009, 05:56 PM
Bah I'm screwed then. Mine went up last year for no reason and I'm sure it will go up again this year. ****!

Looks like I'll be shopping around for a new company.

jaimie08mazda3
10-23-2009, 06:08 PM
Looks like im taking a bike to school in september haha. NO

Ogata
10-24-2009, 09:57 PM
A funny comic but..

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7lBdvITXE0k/SA7wgSoAHqI/AAAAAAAACs0/n9v-jGbUxa4/s400/donato414.jpg


And yet we the city is in a deficit still.

bman13
10-25-2009, 12:07 PM
Just got a letter from Johnson, mine is going up $14 dollars and change per month.

cwp_sedan
10-25-2009, 12:15 PM
Just got a letter from Johnson, mine is going up $14 dollars and change per month.

I will probably be leaving Johnson's if they try to hike mine again this year.