H1n1

[jaimie08mazda3]

What have you all done to prevent this. I am pretty sure I have a few of the symptoms.THis whole week I have been sick And ive gotten headaches, and a horrible cold that wont go away and i have been sweating. I went to the hospital and they said I would be fine... well I hope its true.:flaming gah this sickness sucks... and it started because of billeting week and the girl whose family i am billeting with got me sick... suuuuucks

[towelsnap]

I got the shot dude...... had to (work in a hospital and I get it wayyyyy before the general public did) .... wait it out if it does get work.... try again at the hospital or get a second opinion.

[Broli]

i doubt you have H1N1 bro

[jaimie08mazda3]

Well I dunno I have just been feeling like absolute shit since sunday.

[blankets3]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4MIm1mB7GM

[mazdaskit]

Anyone going for that shot... seems too new to be putting in me lol I dont even think they know any side effects or anything yet

[Broli]

Well I dunno I have just been feeling like absolute shit since sunday.

well i hope you feel better bro


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4MIm1mB7GM

that is super rare and not even certainly linked to her flu shot.


i am not saying that i think everyone should get flu shots, people who work in health care and hospitals, elderly people etc . . .

[towelsnap]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4MIm1mB7GM

lol :chuckle .. no I'm not laughing at her with what happened... look where she got her shot... was it a nurse or the butcher who gave her the shot........ plus how are the meds stored...... people are dumb sometimes.. also regular flu vaccine .. not h1n1


But... I guess the shot "I" got contains mercury which isn't good for you but it's the same amount you can get from a tuna sandwich

[Broli]

lol :chuckle .. no I'm not laughing at her with what happened... look where she got her shot... was it a nurse or the butcher who gave her the shot........ plus how are the meds stored...... people are dumb sometimes..


But... I guess the shot "I" got contains mercury which isn't good for you but it's the same amount you can get from a tuna sandwich

lol

+!

[omalak]

Got the shot this morning as I have a part time job at St.Mics Hospital..

so far so good, no side effects, other than the fact that my arm totally kills and i am falling asleep on my desk!

better to be safe than sorry.

Every medication has side effects.. go read the bottle of tylenol or advil.. chances are slim to none you will experience a very bad side effect.

[jaimie08mazda3]

I agree with Dr. Broli... that i probably don't have it but I do know i have a few symptoms of it but usually it should last longer then it is... for the most part i should be good by thurs-fri

[MattC]

Listen to Dr.Broli, he is probably the closest one to being an expert about anything medical, after all he is a doctor :)

I would not get the shot, mainly because it hasn't been tested, so they cant really for sure say its fully "safe", or if it even works.

FYI.
The woman with Dystonia in the video did not get it from the flu shot, so if you are worried about H1n1 and do want to get a shot but are worried about ending up like that.

[cwp_sedan]

I won't be getting it, just like I don't get a flu shot. Just how it is.


FYI.
The woman with Dystonia in the video did not get it from the flu shot, so if you are worried about H1n1 and do want to get a shot but are worried about ending up like that.

+1. All the shot did was bring out what she already had just beneath the surface.

[Manpreet]

nope i wont b getting the shot, I think that the body should do its own healing instead of getting the shots

[froggy]

Listen to Dr.Broli, he is probably the closest one to being an expert about anything medical, after all he is a doctor :)

I would not get the shot, mainly because it hasn't been tested, so they cant really for sure say its fully "safe", or if it even works.

FYI.
The woman with Dystonia in the video did not get it from the flu shot, so if you are worried about H1n1 and do want to get a shot but are worried about ending up like that.

same here I won't even buy the first year of a run for a car let alone the very first run of a vaccine that everyone says was "rushed" into production, I always look back to stories of what happened when they started implementing the first polio vaccines in the 60's I believe. Let someone else be the guinea pig not me. Also I've been working with Kids or been around kids for over 25 years, and my immune system has seen it all. I've been in situations where the whole department i'm with is in the hospital or home sick and i don't even have the sniffles. This is of course not to say that I won't or can't get sick. Also if you look at the causes of the deaths most of them are not from the flu itself but from secondary pulmonary infections caused by your body's immune system being compromised by having to fight the infection, like pnemonia and bronchitis and such. In as such that the flu can kill you on its own is usually from a form of dehydration, and loss of bodily salt (electrolytes) in the blood stream, that come as a result from vomiting a lot without replenishing. This dehydration of your body results in poor communication between your body's organs. Your body needs the electrolytes in it's system for the neurons to properly convey messages from your brain to your organs/tissues and back. Therefore you experience cramps and irregular heart beat and that can cause death. Now these same results can happen not only as a result of flu but from other stimulii, the same consequences and events can happen as a result of heat exhaustion. phew I'm tired of typing. end for now. No I am not a doctor nor studying to be one, but my mother does work for a doctor and he's always trying to convince me to become one, and keeps telling me all about this stuff. I also work in Health and Physical education for the TDSB, so I do know about this stuff from the perspective of the effects of heat exhaustion and overexertion. ok now i'm really really tired of typing

[towelsnap]

I won't be getting it, just like I don't get a flu shot. Just how it is.



+1. All the shot did was bring out what she already had just beneath the surface.

true, but if you had the choice to hid that and be normal vs. actually having outbreaks and seizures.. I'd choose hide it FTW!


And MattC does have a VALID POINT!!!

"I would not get the shot, mainly because it hasn't been tested, so they cant really for sure say its fully "safe", or if it even works."

How can you trust something that we know nothing really about...look at it this way.... H1n1 has been out for what.... maybe 3+ months ..probably more and Sars was out for a longer duration.... and the SARS vaccine took a lot longer to be put out on the market. Meanwhile in such a short time BOOM we have the vaccine for H1N1? Does it seemed rushed or is it just a placebo.


On a note : Omalak and myself don't really have a choice.... we by "Charters of Rights" don't "have" to but our employers ENFORCE it. Meaning don't get it don't work. Not sure if it's the same for you Omalak but for the most part it's all people on board or get out and swim. :gone


And Froggy it's because your Superman you can't get sick, PS... be a Doc.. crazy cash bro and your young you'll be out of school before your 35

[MistaChin]

I got mine a couple hours ago from this random guy in Kensington Market i feel sooooo great....im.....im.....flying....grygrlizdxsirnzfv jkbgmnkll4%#%liilhfvbfbd

[towelsnap]

I got mine a couple hours ago from this random guy in Kensington Market i feel sooooo great....im.....im.....flying....grygrlizdxsirnzfv jkbgmnkll4%#%liilhfvbfbd

... not gonna lie power laughed :chuckle than felt like shit after watching the youtube video of that cheerleader :bang yup guess that makes me a bad person but MistaChin has balls for saying that lol guess that makes us both *******s for publicly saying that, maybe she got beef injected into her blood stream?

[SpeedBaby]

i don't get the regular flu shots and i especially won't be getting this one. when it comes to more common strains of flu i rely on my immune system to fight it off even if it means that i have to get sick.

this new vaccine hasn't even been properly tested and has been rushed to the market. and to top it off the media is now trying to convince everyone of the necessity of getting the shot including pregnant women AND babies.

i know a lot of ppl will disagree with me, but i still think that if the pharmaceutical companies weren't pushing these insane quantities of vaccines and antibiotics through the doctors onto their patients, the viruses wouldn't have mutated to this uncontrollable state and we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. and not to be apocalyptic here, but this is just the beginning...

[froggy]

true, but if you had the choice to hid that and be normal vs. actually having outbreaks and seizures.. I'd choose hide it FTW!


And MattC does have a VALID POINT!!!

"I would not get the shot, mainly because it hasn't been tested, so they cant really for sure say its fully "safe", or if it even works."

How can you trust something that we know nothing really about...look at it this way.... H1n1 has been out for what.... maybe 3+ months ..probably more and Sars was out for a longer duration.... and the SARS vaccine took a lot longer to be put out on the market. Meanwhile in such a short time BOOM we have the vaccine for H1N1? Does it seemed rushed or is it just a placebo.


On a note : Omalak and myself don't really have a choice.... we by "Charters of Rights" don't "have" to but our employers ENFORCE it. Meaning don't get it don't work. Not sure if it's the same for you Omalak but for the most part it's all people on board or get out and swim. :gone

And Froggy it's because your Superman you can't get sick

it's almost like it's our bodies, but it's their work, and more importantly it's their liability if something goes wrong with someone else, and not so much if something goes wrong with you. Basically they don't give a shit if it makes you grow a third arm as long as the customers can't complain and sue them if they get sick at their facility!

and i'm not superman more like wolverine i heal and especially clot very quickly, good if i get cut which i do a lot, bad for the future if I ever have cholesterol/heart issues :(

[froggy]

i don't get the regular flu shots and i especially won't be getting this one. when it comes to more common strains of flu i rely on my immune system to fight it off even if it means that i have to get sick.

this new vaccine hasn't even been properly tested and has been rushed to the market. and to top it off the media is now trying to convince everyone of the necessity of getting the shot including pregnant women AND babies.

i know a lot of ppl will disagree with me, but i still think that if the pharmaceutical companies weren't pushing these insane quantities of vaccines and antibiotics through the doctors onto their patients, the viruses wouldn't have mutated to this uncontrollable state and we wouldn't be in this mess in the first place. and not to be apocalyptic here, but this is just the beginning...

+ 1,000,000

For how many decades! not years have doctors been pushing "magic pills" aka antibiotics onto people, just to shut them up, for everything from colds to sprained ankles. It's almost like the Chris Rock skit, but substitute "anitbiotics" for the "Robitussin"

[MattC]

The other thing you guys need to consider before you get too caught up in this H1N1 fever and believe the media when they say its a "pandemic"

so far 6 times more people die each year from the normal flu than have died so far from H1N1, most of the H1N1 casualties happening in groups of people who have weakened immune systems for various reasons.

Thats my only advice, dont get caught up in the hype, if you decide you want a shot, get one.

The only part that scares me is all the pregnant women rushing out to get this shot... It will be interesting to see what side effects if any appear in the newborn children...

[towelsnap]

Here is your layout... but where are the results... did anyone that test have long term issues with the vacine? .. oh wait it was released this week....

So ..do I regret getting this... yes... but I need money to survive to.. but I'll avoid getting any future shots from stores.:loco

•As of October 26: health care professionals and people who are hospitalized and seriously ill
•As of November 6: parents of children less than 6 months old and the families of immunosuppressed people
•As of November 9: pregnant women, and children between the ages of 6 months and 5 years and their parents
•As of November 16: people under 18 with chronic medical problems
•As of November 23: people from 18 to 65 with chronic medical problems
•As of December 7: all other adults and children over 5 years of age

[towelsnap]

The other thing you guys need to consider before you get too caught up in this H1N1 fever and believe the media when they say its a "pandemic"

so far 6 times more people die each year from the normal flu than have died so far from H1N1, most of the H1N1 casualties happening in groups of people who have weakened immune systems for various reasons.

Thats my only advice, dont get caught up in the hype, if you decide you want a shot, get one.

The only part that scares me is all the pregnant women rushing out to get this shot... It will be interesting to see what side effects if any appear in the newborn children...

... we just had a "pre teen" 15 I think in Kingston (where I live) die.. from H1n1

http://www.thewhig.com/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=2126200

So maybe it hasn't HIT T.O but we have a highschool here with almost 50% of students attending with H1n1 .. who wants a ROAD TRIP TO H1n1 TOWN of Kingston woop woop

[MattC]

I was referring only to number of deaths, normal flu's spread just as quickly. I think that says more about the overall health of the kids in this nation, they need to take more vitamins :)

[towelsnap]

I was referring only to number of deaths, normal flu's spread just as quickly. I think that says more about the overall health of the kids in this nation, they need to take more vitamins :)

For sure...or how viruses are beating our "modern medicines" and we can't keep up ... what's next an outbreak of cancer? Each year these viruses keep getting worse and worse... when will it stop ?

[jaimie08mazda3]

I'm also a smoker which could affect my immune system... i try not to smoke during this but its hard not too... your like okay i can do this i can do this... no i cant haha

[towelsnap]

I'm also a smoker which could affect my immune system... i try not to smoke during this but its hard not too... your like okay i can do this i can do this... no i cant haha



Here is what I did to quit... go atv'n (2 weeks ago) , now fall off... dislocate your knee ... make sure your unable to walk .... BAM congrats you just quit smoking... unfortunately true story.. I am just able to walk but hey I don't smoke anymore. :chuckle

no question for you... why are we getting a shot ... and in the USA they are getting "nasal vaccine"?

So far 2,000 doses of the H1N1 nasal vaccine have already started going out to the nurses and doctors at Kosair Children's Hospital.


NOW... with the nasal vaccine....

The CDC says that H1N1 nasal spray vaccine side effects include:

- runny nose

-headache

-sore throat

-cough

http://www.whas11.com/news/local/stories/whas11-topstory-091014-h1n1-reax.21860cb4d.html


yet the shot.. we have nothing to go on..

[Scottobot]

It's almost like the Chris Rock skit, but substitute "anitbiotics" for the "Robitussin"

MO' TUSSIN! lol

[mazdaskit]

What about that lil boy in sauga or something on his hockey trip and he had it and died... I dont know about the shot it can be good for you if you take it or can be bad if theres side effects.... only time will tell if i go or not lol

[towelsnap]

if ppl wanna read about the boy

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5guELchxqvsGmoFDTKkgsXgFgpURg


http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/media/ALeqM5jYO6XAkjdR4gwqAXpVelJM9rZ2-A?size=l

[slam525i]

Disclaimer: I am a scientist. I work with viruses.

Not getting the H1N1 means 1) you're bad a math 2) you're selfish.

1. The H1N1 vaccine has been tested sufficently to the point where you the probability of dying from a severe adverse side effect (not yet observed) is almost non-existant compared with the probability of dying from H1N1.

2. You may survive H1N1 fine, but you may pass it onto someone who won't. If you were immunized, you wouldn't be able to pass it onto anyone else. Some people can't get the vaccine for medical reasons, or the vaccine just doesn't work for them. You're not only exposing yourself to risk, but you're also exposing others. If enough people in the population get vaccinated, then the virus simply can't establish a foot hold because there aren't enough people to pass it around. It's a concept called Herd Immunity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Comparing 1st year car to vaccine: If they tested new cars the same way they test vaccines. I wouldn't have needed an engine wire harness clip and new headlights. The testing is vastly different because the consequences are vastly different.

Froggy: PLEASE don't infect those kids you work with. Yes, it's usually a secondary infection that nails the flu victims, but you wouldn't have those secondary infections if your system wasn't already taking a beating from flu.

Speedbaby: The H1N1 didn't mutate to become an issue. It mixed with other viruses to become H1N1. It happened "naturally". Besides, antibiotics don't have any effect on viruses because antibiotics work on bacteria, not viruses. Abuse of antibiotics is bad, but in this case, it's not related.

Manpreet: The immune system doesn't work that way. It responds to things much faster the 2nd time around. The vaccine is giving your immune system a safe "look" at the virus so it'll react faster the 2nd time around.

Any questions? I'll be happy to try and answer them in a sane, logical, calm, scientific manner.

[towelsnap]

slam525i



FTW


lol I have the h1n1 shot already done with no side-effects but it's nice to know someone with a little more ... correction a LOT more knowledge in the field which is nice.

[towelsnap]

Disclaimer: I am a scientist. I work with viruses.

Not getting the H1N1 means 1) you're bad a math 2) you're selfish.

1. The H1N1 vaccine has been tested sufficently to the point where you the probability of dying from a severe adverse side effect (not yet observed) is almost non-existant compared with the probability of dying from H1N1.

2. You may survive H1N1 fine, but you may pass it onto someone who won't. If you were immunized, you wouldn't be able to pass it onto anyone else. Some people can't get the vaccine for medical reasons, or the vaccine just doesn't work for them. You're not only exposing yourself to risk, but you're also exposing others. If enough people in the population get vaccinated, then the virus simply can't establish a foot hold because there aren't enough people to pass it around. It's a concept called Herd Immunity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Comparing 1st year car to vaccine: If they tested new cars the same way they test vaccines. I wouldn't have needed an engine wire harness clip and new headlights. The testing is vastly different because the consequences are vastly different.

Froggy: PLEASE don't infect those kids you work with. Yes, it's usually a secondary infection that nails the flu victims, but you wouldn't have those secondary infections if your system wasn't already taking a beating from flu.

Speedbaby: The H1N1 didn't mutate to become an issue. It mixed with other viruses to become H1N1. It happened "naturally". Besides, antibiotics don't have any effect on viruses because antibiotics work on bacteria, not viruses. Abuse of antibiotics is bad, but in this case, it's not related.

Manpreet: The immune system doesn't work that way. It responds to things much faster the 2nd time around. The vaccine is giving your immune system a safe "look" at the virus so it'll react faster the 2nd time around.

Any questions? I'll be happy to try and answer them in a sane, logical, calm, scientific manner.

... Just to let you know... well written ^ . But my curiosity was sparked ( mostly because you can ask a person who knows what the hell they are talking about and answers :) ) you stated the H1N1 has not mutated... is this for sure proven , and I hope to assume that the original and the 2nd wave out break have been compared in and out and than tested some more lol. But if this does mutate into something example sars vs h1n1 or something smaller the "rushed" vaccine we were given would have some power over it or more than likely another vaccine would be required?

But wait there is more... lol

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showpost.php?p=518673&postcount=5

with a vaccine can it "in fact" bring out a hidden disorder.. spark a chain reaction? Taking one virus mixed with a vaccine causing a human to shut down. Without having tests or not dealing personally with this subject in your own thoughts what went wrong?

[omalak]

I may work in a hospital, but i have no medical experince (lol dont worry i'm not someone who is diagnosing people, you may all breath a sigh of relief) haha

BUT...

The H1N1 vaccine contains an H1N1 virus which has been killed.. you cannot get the flu or get H1N1 from the vaccine. that is technically not possible.

And considering it is a form of a flu, that is why i think the vaccine is out much faster than something like SARS, becasue some of the makeup of the virus is similar to the regular flu.

I never get the flu shot, but i opted for this, not becasue i am afraid i am going to catch it, but becasue i dont want to pass it on to my younger brothr and sister or my diabetic parents who can;t cope as well as i can..

As slam said before, the vaccine is not just for you, you are helping everyone by taking it.

[froggy]

Disclaimer: I am a scientist. I work with viruses.

Not getting the H1N1 means 1) you're bad a math 2) you're selfish.

1. The H1N1 vaccine has been tested sufficently to the point where you the probability of dying from a severe adverse side effect (not yet observed) is almost non-existant compared with the probability of dying from H1N1.

2. You may survive H1N1 fine, but you may pass it onto someone who won't. If you were immunized, you wouldn't be able to pass it onto anyone else. Some people can't get the vaccine for medical reasons, or the vaccine just doesn't work for them. You're not only exposing yourself to risk, but you're also exposing others. If enough people in the population get vaccinated, then the virus simply can't establish a foot hold because there aren't enough people to pass it around. It's a concept called Herd Immunity. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

Comparing 1st year car to vaccine: If they tested new cars the same way they test vaccines. I wouldn't have needed an engine wire harness clip and new headlights. The testing is vastly different because the consequences are vastly different.

Froggy: PLEASE don't infect those kids you work with. Yes, it's usually a secondary infection that nails the flu victims, but you wouldn't have those secondary infections if your system wasn't already taking a beating from flu.

Speedbaby: The H1N1 didn't mutate to become an issue. It mixed with other viruses to become H1N1. It happened "naturally". Besides, antibiotics don't have any effect on viruses because antibiotics work on bacteria, not viruses. Abuse of antibiotics is bad, but in this case, it's not related.

Manpreet: The immune system doesn't work that way. It responds to things much faster the 2nd time around. The vaccine is giving your immune system a safe "look" at the virus so it'll react faster the 2nd time around.

Any questions? I'll be happy to try and answer them in a sane, logical, calm, scientific manner.

ok I agree with a lot of what you say in principal, but lets play a little game of true and false.

1) the most contagious time of the flu or any virus, is before clinical symptoms appear?

2) If no. 1 is true then if we are only staying home after we have begun feeling symptoms the worst has been done already hasn't it? I know you are still contagious after the initial onset but less so.

3) is it not true that bacteria and virus' develop this way to facilitate their transmission/propogation ie. if it only was able to spread effectively after symptoms manifested, then people could be quarantined effectively therefore the virus/bacteria couldn't spread.

4) the Flu vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting the flu? Is it not true that as you stated before the vaccine gives your immune system a heads up on how to fight it?

so now onto the big one and I'd love to hear your explanation to this one:

5) if both 1 and 4 are true how will it stop the flu from spreading like everyone says it will, and if you still get the flu anyway just not as severely wouldn't you still be susceptible to the secondary infections anyway? I guess what I'm asking is does the severity of your flu affect your ability to fight off other infections, or does the simple fact that you have the flu in the first place regardless of it's severity leave you at an elevated risk of secondary infections?

I guess my point is if the second situation of the last half of my 5th question is true what net gain do we have from getting vaccinated?

I'm sorry if this sounds impertinent but i like to get my facts 100% in a row before i go purposely injecting any fraction of any part of the protein strand of a virus into me.

[mazdaskit]

So do you still have to get the flu shot if you get the H1N1 or do you have to still get both??

[omalak]

So do you still have to get the flu shot if you get the H1N1 or do you have to still get both??

You would have to get both, on different areas of the body.

H1N1 will not protect against seasonal flu, and vice versa

[slam525i]

Disclaimer: I am a SCIENTIST, NOT A DOCTOR. Do not take the following as "medical advice". For real medical advice, go to your doctor.


But if this does mutate into something example sars vs h1n1 or something smaller the "rushed" vaccine we were given would have some power over it or more than likely another vaccine would be required?Flu "mutates" every year. It mutates and it mixes with other flu strains to come up with new ones. How effective a vaccine is depends on how close it is to the one out in the "wild". Mutations are slow, and thus the vaccine will likely be highly effective. Genetic mixing, however, can cause large changes. That's why we need a new shot ever year, because the common strains in the "wild" mix and change every year.


with a vaccine can it "in fact" bring out a hidden disorder.. spark a chain reactionIt can happen, but it's extremely rare. Most cases of it being reported as a side effect is often just coincidental. But yes, it can happen. The decision to release and use a vaccine is a matter of statistics. Only when there is an overall benefit is a vaccine used to prevent a disease. (i.e. having 10 people die of a vaccine instead of 1000 people die of a disease) Yes, it sucks for those who suffer an adverse reaction, but it's impossible to tell who will be saved and who will suffer a reaction.


1) the most contagious time of the flu or any virus, is before clinical symptoms appear?It can be. But sneezing and coughing everywhere helps spread the disease.


2) If no. 1 is true then if we are only staying home after we have begun feeling symptoms the worst has been done already hasn't it? I know you are still contagious after the initial onset but less so.Yes, but you can still spread it, as you said, so it's best to stay at home.


3) is it not true that bacteria and virus' develop this way to facilitate their transmission/propogation ie. if it only was able to spread effectively after symptoms manifested, then people could be quarantined effectively therefore the virus/bacteria couldn't spread.Yes, that's why really deadly stuff (like Ebola) doesn't scare me that much. They're easier to control and quarantine.


4) the Flu vaccine doesn't prevent you from getting the flu? Is it not true that as you stated before the vaccine gives your immune system a heads up on how to fight it?The simplest way of explaining it is like having a burglar enter your house while you're sleeping, or have the burglar enter while you're standing at the door with a baseball bat. The burglar still enters your house (your mucosa) but you can fight him off before he really gets in and causes damage.


5) if both 1 and 4 are true how will it stop the flu from spreading like everyone says it will, and if you still get the flu anyway just not as severely wouldn't you still be susceptible to the secondary infections anyway? I guess what I'm asking is does the severity of your flu affect your ability to fight off other infections, or does the simple fact that you have the flu in the first place regardless of it's severity leave you at an elevated risk of secondary infections?You're not as susceptible to secondary infections because you only get a very light disease (if any). So yes, how severe the your disease affects how susceptible you are to secondary infections. So, using my earlier analogy, you're asleep, the burglar gets in your house, ties you up, takes your wallet, leaving the door open and the neighbourhood hoodlums to come in and take your TV and stereo. If you fight off the burglar, you don't get tied up, and the hoodlums stay away.


So do you still have to get the flu shot if you get the H1N1 or do you have to still get both??
H1N1 will not protect against seasonal flu, and vice versaThis is correct. They're different strains.

[Mazda3_06]

the media is getting everyone paranoid
thousands of people die each year of influenza

im not getting the shot...

[yearoftherat]

As someone that works at a hospital and sees the people that come in with so called " symptoms". the media has been imho a PITA.
This time of yr is always known as the flu season and media has blown everything out of proportions making a lot of people paranoid.

[froggy]

I understand your position but somethings still don't make sense to me, one of them is this statement of yours:

If you were immunized, you wouldn't be able to pass it onto anyone else.

We've established that the vaccine won't prevent you from getting the flu. We've also established that the time you are most contagious is when you don't have any symptoms. So if you still get the flu even if you are immunized, why is it that you will not be able to pass it on to others? I mean if you are infected regardless, and just the severity of your symptoms changes, how does that affect your ability to be a transmitter.

Second thing and this has nothing to do with any of your statements, but do you see how they are giving out the flu shots??!!! Correct me if I'm wrong but OAC Biology and 1st year university chemistry are a bit behind me in years. Is it not the reason that we in the Northern Hemisphere's have a seasonal flu peak as opposed to a spread out season in southerly latitudes, because of the cold we tend to congregate more and come into closer physical contact with each other, there by increasing transmission rates. I've always been told this was true. So going to this they have stirred up all this public panic about getting vaccinated, and the importance of it, but at the same time the vaccination sites are so few and far between that they have 1000's of people waiting in enclosed spaces for 3 hours or more in some cases waiting to get the shot!

Lets say I agree (and I don't not disagree with you, just asking the right questions so people can get the information they need from someone who works in virology) the way they are setting up the vaccination program is counterproductive!

The public health sector is also sadly bad at preaching other preventative methods that can be used either in conjunction with the flu shot, or on its own to further protect themselves. Things such as eating healthy, lots of green veggies, fruits and such, fluids, being physically active, and getting lots of rest to keeping your immune system in tip top shape to fight flu or any other infection for that matter. Also they seem to neglect to tell people that the vaccine does not take effect right away, it can take up to 3 weeks for your body to recognize the vaccine and produce antibodies.

To borrow your analogy of the burglar entering the house, it would be like breaking into the house of a fat lazy slob who hasn't seen his toes since grade 4 and keeps his windows and doors open, to breaking into the house of a guy who's in shape, knows martial arts and keeps a 12 ga shotgun next to his house with all the doors locked and an alarm system. How you treat your body, will tell you which one your immune system is closest too. Now a vaccine may act like a police bulletin to your immune system telling you what to look out for, but if you're being watchful already???

Also i thought i had addressed this earlier but it looks like I haven't, as to being selfish, yes maybe I am being selfish, but selfishness is an evolutionary survival trait. It may sound cruel and it may not be politically correct, to say it but I come first. Let everyone else do what they may as long as it does not affect me or my survival. Until they can prove the vaccine is safe 999,999,999 out of a billion or they can prove that this strain of influenza has a mortality rate that is greater than the regular flu that, and that that mortality rate is and of itself, greater than my risk of dying in a car crash on my way to the clinic to get the vaccine and waiting in line and possibly getting another strain of influenza. I will not be getting vaccinated.

In conclusion and I will not be adding anymore to this thread. Life is risky, in the risk analysis of things that are a threat to my life this is a low risk. I'd rather spend 3 hours in a gym working on my cardiovascular fitness to prevent a heart attack, obeseity, diabetes, and such then spend 3 hours in a line waiting to get a vaccine against a disease that probably won't do more than get me off work for a day or 2.

end of Statement, I will not be offering rebuttals to any further statements on this matter.

[Default User]

I don't diddly about nuttin' !

But from what I have read about and researched when debating on whether or not I will be getting vaccinated.

What I can tell you factually is that this vaccine has been fast-tracked through for FDA approval… in order for this process to occur the vaccine manufacturers knowing the potential implications of cutting corners, demanded and were granted (by relatively recent federal legislation) legal immunity and liability protection. That in itself sounds off LOUD warning bells to me! This vaccine has become one of the fastest in history to become publically available. With no true long term trial/outcome data… I am very hesitant. Overall we know the Swine Flu is a mild disease in otherwise healthy people, with most patients making a full recovery.
Ya, we are hearing about all the severe cases in the media and there is no predicting who will be one of those. I guess there is no simple answers. Yes, the Swine flu has been declared a pandemic, but my thoughts are if you are an otherwise healthy person, you just need to practice common sense and good hygiene.
*
Components of this H1N1 vaccine also contain unlicensed components to it. These are components used in concentrations never previously approved until now. Some of these components are seen in other vaccines but in higher untested (in humans) ratios here. In animal studies these components have shown significant concerns. The two I am aware of seen in this new vaccine are, Thimersol (mercury compound) which has been linked to neurologic problems; and Squalene, which has been linked to autoimmune diseases such as MS, asthma and even diabetes.

I am not a healthcare professional, or work in a hospital.
However I am around people that have been in the industry for years.

The concensus is (and my final decision to getting an H1N1 shot) is NO.
Practice good hygiene - washing hands, sanitizing, covering your mouth when sneezing, etc. If someone around you coughs/sneezes - get the **** outta the way!

Just my ignorant 2 cents

[jaimie08mazda3]

So as you know im living with a billet family and the 13 year old kid has asthma. UNfortunately he got what we all had and is now sick to his stomach :(. I hope he is okay and I just dropped him and his mom at the hospital... ill be staying awake to see what they will say!

[mdass52]

just checked out a report on this h1n1 on cp24 and apparently there is a "second batch" of the vaccine being released in a couple of weeks. The new vaccine contains one less additive that causes side effects in pregnant women and children.

ive never gotten the flu shot and as soon as my mom gets the flu shot, she gets sick :chuckle

When the second release comes out ill see at that time.

[slam525i]

I mean if you are infected regardless, and just the severity of your symptoms changes, how does that affect your ability to be a transmitter.

If you're infected after you've been successfully immunized, yes, you're technically infected but it lasts only for a minute or so. Literally. Not exaggerating. (Obvious it will last more than just a minute for a few people, maybe a day or so, but those are the ones who would have been in real trouble if they weren't immunized.) The virus is unable to reproduce in you, and you are unable to pass it onto anyone (because you don't have it, except for a few minutes and even then it's what you breathed in to begin with!).


the vaccination sites are so few and far between that they have 1000's of people waiting in enclosed spaces for 3 hours or more in some cases waiting to get the shot!

Very good point... But there's no real alternative, is there? Again, the costs vs. benefit argument.


Now a vaccine may act like a police bulletin to your immune system telling you what to look out for, but if you're being watchful already???

See, the immunization is not so much as a police bulletin. It's more like "Here's a baseball bat. Here's his picture." You may be very fit already, but bringing you'll still get sliced up a little if he has a knife and you only have your fists. I guess the part where my analogy fails is that these guys get tired only after about 10 years, and you have literally millions of them.


Until they can prove the vaccine is safe 999,999,999 out of a billion or they can prove that this strain of influenza has a mortality rate that is greater than the regular flu that, and that that mortality rate is and of itself, greater than my risk of dying in a car crash on my way to the clinic to get the vaccine and waiting in line and possibly getting another strain of influenza. I will not be getting vaccinated.

No vaccine is going to be THAT safe. Hell, I'll bet just getting an injection isn't so safe that it's 1 in a billion. The point isn't whether H1N1 is more likely to kill than regular flu. The ONLY concern is whether your risk to health is higher with the vaccine, or without. In this case, the epidemiologists have calculated it to be higher without.


I'd rather spend 3 hours in a gym working on my cardiovascular fitness to prevent a heart attack, obeseity, diabetes, and such then spend 3 hours in a line waiting to get a vaccine

Froggy, seriously, 3 hours in a gym will probably do more for anyone's health than the vaccine would. But convincing people to go to the gym... Hell, even I don't go!

Thanks Froggy. It was a fun discussion. :)

[dentinger]

not including the 12 hour flu i got last year, i havent had the flu in probably a decade.
i think the last flu shot i got was back in grade school.

so with that said, im not getting the H1n1 flu shot.

[slam525i]

The two I am aware of seen in this new vaccine are, Thimersol (mercury compound) which has been linked to neurologic problems; and Squalene, which has been linked to autoimmune diseases such as MS, asthma and even diabetes.

Thimerosol is toxic. Technically, yes. It is in the H1N1 vaccine. yes. It contains mercury. Yes.

There is not sufficent mercury in a dose of vaccine to be of any harm. The mercury content is less than the recommended daily limit. It is not a form of mercury that is as toxic as in the old-school thermometers. (It's "organic" mercury, not inorganic mercury which makes it much less toxic, like how chlorine can kill you but it's 1/2 the components of table salt.) As often cited, there is less mercury in a dose of vaccine than in a can of tuna.

Squalene is safe. It's in your wife/girlfriend/mother's cosmetics. See, a lot of the studies that show XXX can be linked to YYY disease do so using huge dosages of pure XXX. In reality, no one takes such doses and in such purity.

Really, there is nothing that's new in this vaccine other than the target it's going after. That and the number of deaths it could potentially avoid is why there was so much fast-tracking. Adjuvants have been in use in vaccines for decades, as have preservatives, and no one has proven any of them are harmful. Often, scientists remove things (like Thimerosol) from vaccines because people keep saying they may-potentially-possibly be harmful, and sure, logically, 1 less ingredient means 1 less to worry about, but then we all look guilty because "they must have removed it because it was harmful!" :bang (We're scientists after all... we're not very good at PR)

[SpeedBaby]

Thank you for all the clarifications and the information you have provided. I've been following this thread all day and learned a whole lot of new things. Not enough to convince me to get the vaccine, but very helpful none the less.

I just wanted to clarify something that has been on the news and you have also mentioned in one of the earlier posts as well as this one:

Often, scientists remove things (like Thimerosol) from vaccines because people keep saying they may-potentially-possibly be harmful, and sure, logically, 1 less ingredient means 1 less to worry about, but then we all look guilty because "they must have removed it because it was harmful!" :bang (We're scientists after all... we're not very good at PR)

If 1 of the ingredients can be removed without essentially affecting the effectiveness of the vaccine, then why was it needed there in the first place? If the effectiveness does get reduced, are we sure that the 'potential of side effects vs. flu-related deaths' ratio would still be in favor of immunization?

[slam525i]

Thank you for all the clarifications and the information you have provided. I've been following this thread all day and learned a whole lot of new things. Not enough to convince me to get the vaccine, but very helpful none the less.

I'm happy I can help. What's the point of science if we scientists keep it to ourselves? :)


If 1 of the ingredients can be removed without essentially affecting the effectiveness of the vaccine, then why was it needed there in the first place? If the effectiveness does get reduced, are we sure that the 'potential of side effects vs. flu-related deaths' ratio would still be in favor of immunization?

Great questions.

Let's go back to Thimerosol for an example. Having a preservative to kill contaminants that might be introduced accidentally is important. Back in the 30's, a bunch of kids died from contaminated vaccines. Keep in mind that the same vial of vaccine can be used repeatedly for many doses, so there is a slight risk of contamination. Phenol can be used, but it too is toxic. It's what gives things the "hospital smell". You can find phenol in some things like mouthwash. Thimerosol was found to be much more effective in much smaller quantities and we switched to it 1/2 a century ago. The overall toxicity is lower. Disposable, single use vials don't require preservatives, but the costs would be astronomical. In public health, costs can be an issue in the end.

Another hot-button from the popular anti-vaccine camps are adjuvants. Adjuvants are put into vaccines because they help present the vaccine to your immune system, making the vaccine more effective. The vaccine will still work without adjuvants, and is still going to benefit society overall. But, given the almost non-existent risk, why not use them and protect more people? I think of the 50 million or so doses of H1N1 vaccines Canada ordered, only 2% are without adjuvants and are to be used only in special cases where the adjuvant hasn't been fully tested on these groups. Would the adjuvant cause harm to these people? I'd bet my life savings it wouldn't. (I'd bet my life, but what would I do with 2 lives?) That's how good the numbers are. But scientists and public health manager are extremely anal, hence the 2% without.


Feel free to ask. I'm happy to answer, but please try to be specific when it comes to vaccine components or side effects. It's impossible to answer otherwise.

[SL3VIN]

i recently had a lecture on immunology in my human phys class and the prof said something about how the h1n1 antigen was developed from chicken eggs? and if someone who is allergic to chicken eggs they cant take this vaccine... is this true?

[swales]

^Yes that's true

[slam525i]

i recently had a lecture on immunology in my human phys class and the prof said something about how the h1n1 antigen was developed from chicken eggs? and if someone who is allergic to chicken eggs they cant take this vaccine... is this true?

It's not "developed" from chicken eggs. We make the vaccine in chicken eggs. It's just using them as an incubator with a good source of nutrients. So, yes, anyone who is allergic to chicken eggs can't take the vaccine.

[towelsnap]

lmao

[SL3VIN]

Is Adjuvants an oil found in whales?

[slam525i]

Is Adjuvants an oil found in whales?

It can be (after much processing). It can also be alum or something else. It was discovered at the beginning of the last century (always wanted to say that) when they found that some batches of vaccines works better than others. Turns out the containers they used were "dirty". It was biologically clean but had non-biological (stuff like dust or whatever) in them, and some how that made them work better.

Obviously, we don't spike our vaccines with sterilized dirt in this day and age. We use chemical compounds now that we know and test for increased effectiveness in presentation of the vaccine to your immune system, as well as for potential side effects.

[MattC]

cool image to put things in perspective.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2603/4052849920_fb143b60b5_o.jpg

[towelsnap]

holy shit .. that's a big pic... right click... set as wallpaper... turns monitor... damnit still too big

[SirWanker]

North Americans typically blow all this kind of shit out of proportion. We live in such great conditions and have so little happening to us in this little bubble of a life that we lead, the second something goes wrong we put on alerts and declare pandemics.

HEALTHY PEOPLE ARE DYING!!! Yes. Healthy people die every single day from thousands of different things; many of them destroying the number of deaths caused by swine flu; let's think: the regular flu?

"But the young are dying!"

Yeah? Alright? Welcome to the world of an unfamiliar illness. What can you do? Wash your hands and go on with your day. If it makes you feel better, let them inject you with that vaccine.

[swales]

^+1

[ElegantGremlin]

It's something new... give it a year or two and no one will care. Look at AIDs, it killed 46,741 times the amount of people and didn't even make the news.

[towelsnap]

but kids who were addicted to warcraft made the news lmao

[Fobio]

I have nothing to add because I didn't want to type out my point...so here's my contribution...

Whether you get the shot or not, this is what happens...

http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_may2009/SwineFluSymptoms.jpg

[towelsnap]

bahahahahahahhaah

[Thrizzl3]

i have nothing to add because i didn't want to type out my point...so here's my contribution...

Whether you get the shot or not, this is what happens...

http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_may2009/swineflusymptoms.jpg

wtf is that????

[mazdabetty]

http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_may2009/swineflusymptoms.jpg

ahahha... Ahhhhh!!!!! Creepy!!! But awww his little face is kind of cute...

[mazdaskit]

I have nothing to add because I didn't want to type out my point...so here's my contribution...

Whether you get the shot or not, this is what happens...

http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_may2009/SwineFluSymptoms.jpg

ummmmmmm:whoa is that real or Photoshoped lmao

[omalak]

wtf is that????

THAT SIR... is what happens when a woman sleeps with a pig..

you get a PUMAN

and man, that is one ugly little shit

[ElegantGremlin]

ummmmmmm:whoa is that real or Photoshoped lmao

animatronics?

[Fobio]

that's Benjamin Button + swine flu...

[Thrizzl3]

THAT SIR... is what happens when a woman sleeps with a pig..

you get a PUMAN

and man, that is one ugly little shit


that's Benjamin Button + swine flu...

lmao

[mazdaskit]

that's Benjamin Button + swine flu...

:chuckle lol

[crono06]

ahahha... Ahhhhh!!!!! Creepy!!! But awww his little face is kind of cute...

Ew! I don't think any other girl would think THAT is cute o_o

[-RJ3-]

Makes me wonder... Ive never gotten sick when I was younger, but was advised to take the flu shot starting high school.

Since then I have had allergies, headaches and times where I felt like I had a flu..

Im waitng this out till I find updates of what is happening with people who have taken it first.

We should trust our medical officials, but I really don't believe this will be pandemic.

It will be pandemic if side effects obviously occur in time to people who had this shot.

[slam525i]

Makes me wonder... Ive never gotten sick when I was younger, but was advised to take the flu shot starting high school.

Since then I have had allergies, headaches and times where I felt like I had a flu..

Im waitng this out till I find updates of what is happening with people who have taken it first.

We should trust our medical officials, but I really don't believe this will be pandemic.

It will be pandemic if side effects obviously occur in time to people who had this shot.

So, first of all, "Pandemic" is a technical term indicating the spread of the disease, but not the severity. It technically already is a pandemic, but it doesn't mean it'll necessarily result in a lot of deaths. The media sure likes that term to scare people though.

As for your allergies, it's likely "temporal association". Allergies (or autism, or [disease name here]) often develop in youth, which is when you have a lot of vaccinations, thus people associate the two.

Silly example: I too started to have allergies in high school. I also started taking a serious interest in girls at the same time. :chuckle Incidentally, my allergies have gone away, but my interest in girls haven't.

[Cardinal Fang]

It's obvious that slam525i is allergic to girls. The sooner he accepts that the sooner he can move on.

[towelsnap]

So ya.... with the issue out of H1N1 being realllllllllly bad in Kingston... since the shot takes 7-10 days to fully kick in everyone "not public knowledge" is recommended to take Tamiflu till you are immune. This is will help your immune system and help fight it till the vaccine sets in... hearing that over 25 close friends have it.. is disturbing and I no longer consider this a joke or a media hype... the damge and how bad it hits people is unreal . Hearing that a close love one to me has it and has breathing problems ... really concerns me ... please you don't have to get the shot... it's your call but if you do.. please consider taking the extra step to ensure your safe.


- Greg

[She_Prime]

The H1N1 is really bad in Kingston, Burlington and Niagara Region. Kingston has declared a pandemic and shortly (within the next 48 hours) Niagara will declare the same. We are setting up security guards in our main entrances as of Monday in my hospital to screen visitors into the hospital.

[towelsnap]

The H1N1 is really bad in Kingston, Burlington and Niagara Region. Kingston has declared a pandemic and shortly (within the next 48 hours) Niagara will declare the same. We are setting up security guards in our main entrances as of Monday to screen visitors into the hospital.

yup I'm one of those guys..... we haven't started that but it's close to ... I'm not immune yet nor will I be safe.. considering I just recently got it (vaccine that is). I just love how people think it's all a joke and media hype... come to Kingston and actually see what it's done!

[She_Prime]

yup I'm one of those guys..... we haven't started that but it's close to ... I'm not immune yet nor will I be safe.. considering I just recently got it (vaccine that is). I just love how people think it's all a joke and media hype... come to Kingston and actually see what it's done!

There's pregnant women on ventilators in the Hamilton region- it's a very scary thing!

I just got vaccinated yesterday so in two weeks I'm flagged by Occ Health to be on pandemic response. Yay me.

But this thing should definitely be taken seriously though. Listen to towelsnap and myself. I'm on the front line of it!

[towelsnap]

Yup..... two weeks thought it was only ten days? lol are they giving you Tamiflu pills aswell Ang? Right now the public "kingston" is only getting the vaccine .. no pills it takes roughly 7-10 days to kick in ... if you catch the virus between than .. the shot is useless.... so Tamiflu is what is given to us plus the shot.... so your at a level5?

I'm suprised we haven't yet... considering we are the worst... most of our guards don't even have it , yet we are forcing the mask fit test... so i can see it coming... YAH for more hours of work (80 a week plus).... yes a week but - lack of sleep and just running myself into the ground

[She_Prime]

Yup..... two weeks thought it was only ten days? lol are they giving you Tamiflu pills aswell Ang? Right now the public "kingston" is only getting the vaccine .. no pills it takes roughly 7-10 days to kick in ... if you catch the virus between than .. the shot is useless.... so Tamiflu is what is given to us plus the shot.... so your at a level5?

I'm suprised we haven't yet... considering we are the worst... most of our guards don't even have it , yet we are forcing the mask fit test... so i can see it coming... YAH for more hours of work (80 a week plus).... yes a week but - lack of sleep and just running myself into the ground

No Tamiflu for us, but we were forewarned any workers who don't get it will not be allowed on the grounds if we break out. Yeah it's 10 days but in two weeks will be the "peak" so that's when I go on pandemic response. I have ICU experience as well so I can assist with anyone who needs ventilation.

Welland and the Niagara Health System are doing it as a precaution- we are not forbidding anyone to come in unless they have visible symptoms. When and if we reach an outbreak like that of SARS we will further restrict visitations.

[Fobio]

this suck, Greg and Angela...be safe you guys, and thanks for looking out for us/everyone.

[She_Prime]

Thanks Vincent! I'm not going to preach here but everyone should make an informed decision whether or not to get the H1N1 shot.

Us in our early 20s to early 30s are in one of the big risk groups.

[Fobio]

I see clients everyday, and they are in the high-risk group (front line health workers, and 65+). Personally, I prefer to not get the seasonal flu shots, but I'm inclined to get the swine flu shot. but if the wife doesn't get it, I wonder what's the point...

I'm likely going to get it ASAP.

[towelsnap]

Thanks Vincent! I'm not going to preach here but everyone should make an informed decision whether or not to get the H1N1 shot.

Us in our early 20s to early 30s are in one of the big risk groups.


We had someone die again last night from it... also line up's were more than a 6 hour wait loooooads of people ... and we ran out of vaccine.... ya talk to your department about the Tamiflu Ang.... we are getting it as a MUST have... I've been urging people of the public to get it as well due to how it can help for the immunity of the virus.... it's only a precaution but still better safe than sorry.

also .. wash your hands hahahah those are my tips... and don't eat a lot of cheese.. you feel like shit afterwards haha

and Slam525i is online.... will Tamiflu work and is it effective?

[slam525i]

It's obvious that slam525i is allergic to girls. The sooner he accepts that the sooner he can move on.

Cardinal is right. I admit it. I get this weird swelling sometimes. :chuckle

Towel: Yes, I'm online. You creep. :chuckle Been spending all day listening to Nobel laureates talk at the university. There's one that's probably going to be really good tonight at 7 about personalized genome if anyone wants to go. It's open to public. http://www.gairdner.org/Calendar?event={1bf58551-9a00-4f55-80a0-69db2d97dc04} (http://www.gairdner.org/Calendar?event=%7B1bf58551-9a00-4f55-80a0-69db2d97dc04%7D)

Back on topic, Tamiflu is an anti-viral drug (different from antibiotic). So yes, it works right away, but you also have to stay on it for it to keep working. It doesn't work as well as a vaccine (once the vaccine has taken in a few days), but it's a good step while vaccines aren't available or haven't taken up yet. I wouldn't recommend Tamiflu unless you're going to be exposed to H1N1 or large numbers of people; I'd wait for the vaccine. The vaccine does take a few days to kick in, but you should get some antibody production in 2 or 3 days, at which point you're already better protected than having none. 7-10 days is peak antibody titer, not the beginning. (It's not an on-off switch.)

Standard disclaimer applies about not being a doctor, this isn't medical advice and you should refer to your doctor.

[towelsnap]

Slam525i..... what's wrong with stalkin? jk

This is what they are saying (They = Occ Health)..... they are giving us Tamiflu to take after the vaccine. We are to continue to use Tamiflu for the duration of 10days to ensure we are safe. I work in a hospital and I am in contact with 100s to 1000s of people a day. Since Kingston (where I live) has a high amount of the virus here ... I'm at risk...


So.. is it safe or recommended to take the Tamiflu after recieving the H1n1 shot... will it make a difference if taken or not? Or will it conflict with the vaccine? Cheers


Guess I should have explained lol

I think we all owe you a beer for all the info and help lol or maybe I just read your responce wrong.. i dunno lol ... stressful day

[slam525i]

So.. is it safe or recommended to take the Tamiflu after recieving the H1n1 shot... will it make a difference if taken or not? Or will it conflict with the vaccine?

No. Tamiflu and the vaccine are completely independant. You can take 1, or the other, or both. But yes, optimally you'd get the vaccine and take tamiflu for a few days until your vaccine has "taken". Really optimally, you'd also get your antibody titer checked to see the vaccine took, but that would be prohibitively expensive.



I think we all owe you a beer for all the info and help lol or maybe I just read your responce wrong.. i dunno lol ... stressful day

DID SOMEONE SAY BEER!?! :give beer

[fatsock]

I got my shot, only took 6 hours.

[towelsnap]

beer it is lol just had about 10 + =) ...6 hrs that sucks got mine in 2mins =) , but ya ill be talking both Ill have to check and make sure Im solid ..

Just heard on the news a clinic (private) is charging $100 for the shot..when asked where they got the vaccine they stated T.O health unit