Alignment and Tire Wear

[newmazda]

I have a 2009 GX Sport that had noticeable tire wear on the inside edges of the front right and both rear tires. The tires only have 18,000km on them and I did not want to ruin my new winter tires so I brought it back to the dealer and they did an alignment on it and said a few dimensions were slightly out.


The front left toe was changed from -0.10" to 0.10" even though this tire showed no uneven wear.

The right front toe was changed from 0.00" to 0.10" and this tire had wear on the inside edge.

The left rear camber was changed from -1.53 to 2.0 and the toe was changed from 0.00" to 0.05" and this tire also had wear on the inside edge.

Now for the last tire the right rear that showed the most uneven wear on the inside edge. The alignment was barely changed at all, the camber was changed from -1.23 to -1.30.

When I look at the rear tires it is obvious that the tires are tilted inward and the car is resting on the inside edge of the tires and the outside edge is not making contact with the ground.

So if my car is in spec and aligned properly, Is it normal for the tires to wear on the inside edge on this car?

To me it makes perfect sense that the tires would wear faster on the inside edge if the camber is negative like it is.

I just hate the thought of having to change tires earlier than I should because of the wear on the inside edge.

Anyone else encounter this and find a solution.

Thanks

[newmazda]

Since I can't edit my post the left rear camber was changed to -2.0.

[newmazda]

Man I wish we could edit our posts.

Anyway I Missed another - so the right rear toe was changed from -0.05" to 0.05"

[Noisy Crow]

Check your tire pressure as well...

Rear camber is not adjustable unless you have aftermarket camber kit installed... so if you don't and the shop told you they changed the rear camber settings then they are lying to you.

[newmazda]

Check your tire pressure as well...

Rear camber is not adjustable unless you have aftermarket camber kit installed... so if you don't and the shop told you they changed the rear camber settings then they are lying to you.

Well they did not tell me they changed it but gave me the printout that says it changed. Maybe changing the toe had an affect on the camber settings.

The camber is still within spec but to me it seems to be on the negative side for car that is not driven hard at all.

[condor888000]

Changed toe would indeed change camber.

I dunno, your numbers seem weird, but I'm drunk too. I'll PM tjhis thread to myself so I'll look at it sober and give you an opinon.

[newmazda]

Here is just my numbers for you,

LEFT FRONT RIGHT FRONT
Before After Before After
Caster 2.17 2.17 2.42 2.42
Camber -0.48 -0.48 -.053 -0.53
Toe -0.10" 0.10" 0.00" 0.10"

LEFT REAR RIGHT REAR
Before After Before After
Camber -1.53 -2.0 -1.23 -1.30
Toe -0.10" 0.05" -0.05" 0.05"


Let me know what you think!

My biggest concern is the negative camber on the rear wheels. You can actually see that the tires are angled inward and making more contact on the inside edge than the outside. This would definitely explain the inner tire wear I was experiencing but it is within Mazda's spec. Mazda's spec according to my printout for rear wheel camber is MIN -2.19, MAX -0.19 and I wish it was closer to the MAX spec.

[McGuyver_3]

First of all is your car lowered? That may explain alot.
Secondly What dealer did you take it to?
3rdly there is no adjustment for the rear camber as when you move the toe adjustment you will adjust your camber aswell. I highly recomend you get a camber kit BUT expect to pay good money for the alignment as the camber kits are NOT easy to adjust :(
The front caster cannot be adjusted the camber well theres a way to do it but it would make such a minimal affect its more trouble then its worth

[condor888000]

That's some weird cross camber in the back. Has the car ever been hit on the rear quarter?

In the front you have some slight toe in, which is normal for a street car. And the front camber looks fine too.

For the rear, it's pretty easy to see you had a tech that actually cares, because your toe is set even. That's actually fairly rare when you start looking at alignment sheets. Slightly toe in again, which is exactly what you want.

Rear camber though...I dunno, just seems odd that a newish car would have settings like that. But unfortunately there isn't really anything that could be done about it. You do not want to use the toe settings to try and dial in the camber, because ultimately toe will have as big(or bigger) an effect on tire wear as camber, and it will also have a more extreme effect on handling.

In all honesty, I think this is something you're just going to have to live with. You could get a camber kit, but then you're spending $200 on the kit, plus more on install or you could spend 1.5-4 hours farting around yourself to get it done. The kit can also slip, meaning you need to have it checked every so often or else you're doing nothing. I ended up with 3 alignments this summer because my camber kit kept slipping. One at the start of the autocross season, one in the middle when the kit went on, and one about 3/4's the way through because it slipped. Lucky I get them done cheap through a club I'm a member of.

Anyway, camber will do some damage to tires, but the real tire killer is improper toe settings. since your toe settings are all great, it shouldn't be a major problem. I'd expect slightly above average tire wear, but nothing too extreme.

Was your car loaded when the alignment was done? Added weight can effect camber settings especially in the rear.

[McGuyver_3]

YIKES your camber kit slipped? man that makes me nervous about mine. How much did it cost extra because of the kit? I know the tighning bolt is in such a retarded spot as well as the adjuster bolt. I to get alignments verycheap perks of working at a dealer lol

[Fuman]

condor, which camber kit are you using?
The one I am using is SPC; it works like a screw.
Mine hasn't slipped, and I slid into the snow bank last year + a few sessions of lapping.
If you are using SPC, see if you can do a warranty claim?

[condor888000]

I don't have the SPC/Eibach kit, I wouldn't be as concerned with either of those. Seems like they're harder to adjust than mine, but look like they'd hold better too.

[condor888000]

It's actually the K-MAC rear camber kit, which is more like a camber bolt kit. It replaces the outer bushing for each camber arm, and has a notched bolt. The notched bolt slips into a sleeve with an off center hole and turns the sleeve, which adjusts the effective length of the arm. There is a ploy urethane bushing which allows the sleeve to slip and not bind. There is a nut on it that holds the bolt in place. If the nut is not tight enough the bolt/sleeve can slip when you don't want it to. That's what happened to me.

[McGuyver_3]

I am using a eibach look alike so now i am not so concerned

Fuman- do they have to take off the wheels to adjust your alignment?

[McGuyver_3]

It's actually the K-MAC rear camber kit, which is more like a camber bolt kit. It replaces the outer bushing for each camber arm, and has a notched bolt. The notched bolt slips into a sleeve with an off center hole and turns the sleeve, which adjusts the effective length of the arm. There is a ploy urethane bushing which allows the sleeve to slip and not bind. There is a nut on it that holds the bolt in place. If the nut is not tight enough the bolt/sleeve can slip when you don't want it to. That's what happened to me.

that sounds like an awesome system but the fact that it slips not so good

do you mean a kit something like this http://cgi.ebay.ca/INGALLS-CAMBER-KIT-MAZDA-626-PROTEGE-RX-7-MX-3_W0QQitemZ270327765434QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_C ar_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item3ef0ca59ba

[Fuman]

I am using a eibach look alike so now i am not so concerned

Fuman- do they have to take off the wheels to adjust your alignment?
SPC, Eibach is supposedly the same.

They do have to take my wheels off to do rear camber. I also like to add, they HATE doing it.

[McGuyver_3]

SPC, Eibach is supposedly the same.

They do have to take my wheels off to do rear camber. I also like to add, they HATE doing it.

LOL i assumed so they would hate doing it. also for the alignment do they need to readjust the heads after the wheels going back on or is the system smart enough to just reattach the heads to the wheels for further adjustments?

[Fuman]

LOL i assumed so they would hate doing it. also for the alignment do they need to readjust the heads after the wheels going back on or is the system smart enough to just reattach the heads to the wheels for further adjustments?
what do you mean by heads?
the senor that they attach to the wheels?

[McGuyver_3]

Sorry we call the heads at work but yes i mean the sensors

[Fuman]

Sorry we call the heads at work but yes i mean the sensors
The shops I was had to, because the sensor covered the bolt pattern on the rim.
So they had to take off the sensor to bolt the wheel back on.

[McGuyver_3]

no no i understand that part but in order to continue with the alignment after the heads are put back on did they have to be recompensated? like wheels back on heads back on lift up the rear ende and reteach the calibration? i hope that makes sense

[Fuman]

no no i understand that part but in order to continue with the alignment after the heads are put back on did they have to be recompensated? like wheels back on heads back on lift up the rear ende and reteach the calibration? i hope that makes sense
they jack up the rear end a little during adjustments. they lower it once the wheel is on, and sensors on after that.
hope i am answering your questio

[McGuyver_3]

I understand that part but do they recalibrate the sensors afterwards? or do they just put the sensors on and keep going with the alignment? do you know what i mean by that?
Calibrating a sensor= put the sensor on so it is vertical turn the wheel 120 degrees push the button turn it another 120degrees push the button and turn it another 120 degrees and push the button then the sensor is calibrated
does that make sense to you ?

[Fuman]

I understand that part but do they recalibrate the sensors afterwards? or do they just put the sensors on and keep going with the alignment? do you know what i mean by that?
Calibrating a sensor= put the sensor on so it is vertical turn the wheel 120 degrees push the button turn it another 120degrees push the button and turn it another 120 degrees and push the button then the sensor is calibrated
does that make sense to you ?
they do recalibrate the sensors afterwards

[McGuyver_3]

aaa thank you now i look forward to a pesty alignment on my car lol

[condor888000]

Mine isn't quite like the kit pictured. More like this. The bit at the top is not part of the kit, and there are two kits pictured.

http://www.k-mac.com.au/pages/camber_caster/5_susp.gif

Personally, I think it's a better way of doing it, just have to make sure that after the alignment is done I really tighten the bolt down.

[newmazda]

Thanks for the comments guys,

To answer some of your questions,

The car has not been lowered, it is stock with stock tires and rims.

The car has not been in any accidents or hit.

According to Mazda's specs the camber is within spec.

Today I was doing some Christmas shopping and drove around the parking lot checking out the Mazda 3's and noticed that most if not all of them had the negative camber in the rear wheels that was visible when compared to the front wheels. My wife could even notice that the rear wheels were angled inward.

So in conclusion I think this is just something I will have to live with unless I do get the camber kit for the rear.

It sucks having to replace tires more often due to the rear camber but hopefully I can minimize it some with proper tire rotation.

I guess I won't be buying top of the line tires though if they are just going to wear prematurely.

[condor888000]

Oh yeah, the car is defiantly designed with rather significant rear camber stock. Just -2.0* seems a bit high, especially since the other is only -1.3*.

[newmazda]

Oh yeah, the car is defiantly designed with rather significant rear camber stock. Just -2.0* seems a bit high, especially since the other is only -1.3*.

Yeah, I agree. But as mentioned it is not adjustable without an aftermarket kit.

I am trying to decide if buying a camber kit and getting an alignment would offset the cost of buying new tires more often or not.

Does anyone know if putting on a camber kit would affect the warranty on the car and if Mazda would even be willing to do an alignment with the kit on?

Thanks

[fini]

Yeah, I agree. But as mentioned it is not adjustable without an aftermarket kit.

I am trying to decide if buying a camber kit and getting an alignment would offset the cost of buying new tires more often or not.

Does anyone know if putting on a camber kit would affect the warranty on the car and if Mazda would even be willing to do an alignment with the kit on?

Thanks

Agincourt will do an alignment for sure. From my speaking to Karen, who has left she said that they would not charge extra for the camber kits. Hopefully that offer still stands for TM3 members.

[McGuyver_3]

maybe i will pay for an alignment then to avoid the hassle lol

[Google]

Oh yeah, the car is defiantly designed with rather significant rear camber stock. Just -2.0* seems a bit high, especially since the other is only -1.3*.
i went through this crap a few months ago. The alignment machine's printer didn't print that day so I dont have a record of it but mine was high too and still considered within spec. I think it's something we have to live with...or get our car lowered and invest in a camber kit.