How fast?

[CanadaGTO]

A lot of us of a certain age have fond memories of cars past, maybe even having had posters of them on our walls as young kids, dreaming of what we might have someday.

Countach, 318, Esprit, Porsche 928, etc.....

But how fast were they? The Speed3 is generally considered to be able to do the 1/4 mile in the low 14's at around 99mph or so, the Neon SRT-4 about the same, and the Cobalt also.

And they could all kick the ass of early 80's exotics: (taken from the March 1981 Popular Mechanics)

http://www.drakilla.com/1981.jpg

[SwiftM3]

You must remember that in 1981, we were just slowly coming out of the oil crisis, vehicles had lots of pollution control and horsepower way wayyy down and obviously the technology just wasn't where it's at today.
Interesting post tho, thanks for sharing.

[cklwilliam]

wow.... the lambo has 7 mpg, damn

[Kaptain Sloth]

I could have gotten a Porsche for $30K?? lol

[DruidB]

The tire technology was also terrible and hurt acceleration times... most of the exotics were geared for top speed and coupled with 5 speed gearboxes at best hurt accel times...

And the only supercars on that list are the lambo, 512, pantera and M1... the rest are just sportscars.

People often make the same argument for muscle cars but fail to take into account tires and traction..

[Mazda3X2]

That list of cars brings back some memories.

[taz4432]

The tire technology was also terrible and hurt acceleration times... most of the exotics were geared for top speed and coupled with 5 speed gearboxes at best hurt accel times...

And the only supercars on that list are the lambo, 512, pantera and M1... the rest are just sportscars.

People often make the same argument for muscle cars but fail to take into account tires and traction..

Uhh...5-speed cars almost always beat the 6-speed equivalents. Taller gearing = less shifts/more to wind out.

[DruidB]

Uhh...5-speed cars almost always beat the 6-speed equivalents. Taller gearing = less shifts/more to wind out.

Um... Taller gearing = Slower acceleration

A 5 speed car with a differential geared to go 180mph will have taller gear ratio's in each gear vs a 6 speed car geared to go 180mph..

[taz4432]

Um... Taller gearing = Slower acceleration

A 5 speed car with a differential geared to go 180mph will have taller gear ratio's in each gear vs a 6 speed car geared to go 180mph..

That's what I said, taller gearing. The 5-speed cars beat the 6-speed equivalents all the time. In short-run acceleration, the 5-speed has the advantage.

[DruidB]

That's what I said, taller gearing. The 5-speed cars beat the 6-speed equivalents all the time. In short-run acceleration, the 5-speed has the advantage.

You do understand that "Taller" gearing is numerically lower, Think about this for a second... when economy cars changed from 4 speed manuals to 5 speed manuals in the early 80's how did that effect acceleration?

Unless your dealing with massive hp and high stall torque converters usually having more gears enables you to have shorter gearing and better acceleration. There are exceptions in cases where the extra 6th gear is simply an overdrive however generally speaking more gears = Shorter, Tighter spaced ratios and better acceleration.

[taz4432]

You do understand that "Taller" gearing is numerically lower, Think about this for a second... when economy cars changed from 4 speed manuals to 5 speed manuals in the early 80's how did that effect acceleration?

Unless your dealing with massive hp and high stall torque converters usually having more gears enables you to have shorter gearing and better acceleration. There are exceptions in cases where the extra 6th gear is simply an overdrive however generally speaking more gears = Shorter, Tighter spaced ratios and better acceleration.

I completely understand what taller gearing is and I understand why you think what you think but if you have two otherwise identical cars, particularly high hp cars (even street cars, doesn't have to be top-fuel power levels), the 5-speed car WILL beat the 6-speed car most of the time. One less shift is a lot more time gained than what's 'lost' by the minor gearing differences and in fact, a taller 1st gear is advantageous for powerful cars. Over a long run, yes, the 6-speed will beat the 5-speed but in short-run acceleration, the 5 speed will be faster. I'm agreeing with you entirely, other than this minor caveat.

[Unoriginalusername]

Um... Taller gearing = Slower acceleration

A 5 speed car with a differential geared to go 180mph will have taller gear ratio's in each gear vs a 6 speed car geared to go 180mph..

unless you're comparing a 265hp Subaru WRX with a 5 speed transmission to the 300hp STI with a six speed transmission.... the 5 speed has often been an advantage as it puts up identical acceleration figures with taller gears

[DruidB]

I completely understand what taller gearing is and I understand why you think what you think but if you have two otherwise identical cars, particularly high hp cars (even street cars, doesn't have to be top-fuel power levels), the 5-speed car WILL beat the 6-speed car most of the time. One less shift is a lot more time gained than what's 'lost' by the minor gearing differences and in fact, a taller 1st gear is advantageous for powerful cars. Over a long run, yes, the 6-speed will beat the 5-speed but in short-run acceleration, the 5 speed will be faster. I'm agreeing with you entirely, other than this minor caveat.

I understand why you think the 5 speed is faster to accelerate.. your focused on time lost during shifts. I agree that this sometimes comes into play depending on the vehicle...

However you must understand that we are talking about early 80's 180mph supercars. Cars that would have massively benefited from a 6 speed transmission.. The early 80's Lambo for example had a retardedly tall 1st gear, due to the tall final drive and less power than you might assume. It would have been faster 0-60 and faster in the 1/4 with the aid of another cog and shorter gearing. This was my point. Its the reason there are no longer any 5 speed supercars.

If you dont think the somewhat underpowered early 80's supercars with thier super tall "top speed" gearing would have accelerated faster with help from an extra gear then we can agree to disagree.