Vibration related to Wheels/Tires?

[Iceman_F1]

Hopefully posted in the right place...

This summer I switched to a new set of rims (Katana NJ02 Rims) with a set of slightly used General Exclaim UHP 205/50/17 Tires. When driving them home after getting the tires mounted to the rims and then rims mounted to my car, I didn't notice anything weird with them and thought all was good. Sometime later, I started to notice a bit of vibration in the front (more steering wheel vibration). Thinking nothing much of it other than a possible wheel balance issue, I let it be for a bit. Shortly after I got the tools needed to do my own tire swaps and did a rotation. Directional tires so just moved front to back and back to front on each side. After that I still noticed a vibration so I finally took it to QEW Mazda to get the wheels checked for a balance issue.

QEW Mazda said the wheel balance was off on each of the rims so they re-balanced and sent me on my way. Still felt vibrations so took it in again and left it there for a day to look at (in case it was something else). They said they re-checked the balance and said everything about the car is fine so not sure what the problem might be. They did mention that it could be a warped tire or a rim that might be bent/warped/something?

Is there any visual way to check or does anyone know a good place around Burlington to get this checked? Does their explanation seem right? Anything else I might want to check that might be the cause? Not a huge issue but it does vibrate off and on between 100 and 120KM/H and is getting somewhat annoying.

Also, I have had an alignment done at QEW Mazda (when it was still Oakville Mazda) after getting these new rims on. I just don't remember when I noticed the vibration at first...

[Pokey]

I'm going through this right now. Have your wheels put on a machine that uses fingers not the hub to mount the wheel. I just found out that my tire has a warp in it - the wheel is fine. This is the second place I was at - the first one said that it's the wheel and they just can't balance it - but when mounted on the fingers (just like on your lugs) you can see the wheel is fine but the tire has a high spot :( . I went to a place in Waterloo, which may not work for you.

[Iceman_F1]

I'm going through this right now. Have your wheels put on a machine that uses fingers not the hub to mount the wheel. I just found out that my tire has a warp in it - the wheel is fine. This is the second place I was at - the first one said that it's the wheel and they just can't balance it - but when mounted on the fingers (just like on your lugs) you can see the wheel is fine but the tire has a high spot :( . I went to a place in Waterloo, which may not work for you.

Yeah, Waterloo is a bit far for me. Not sure what's around this area that has that ability. Though good to know...

[PearlM3]

I just had the exact same problem, supposedly it was my rims, but i kept pushing and got a full new set of tires, and guess what...NO MORE VIBRATIONS..funny

[KenYork]

Your wheels may need hub-rings to keep them centered on the hub. A slight offset will caus vibrations.

[Iceman_F1]

Your wheels may need hub-rings to keep them centered on the hub. A slight offset will caus vibrations.

I have hub-rings. Tried a different company for balance...will know tomorrow if it worked.

[leojadazol]

is it a common problem with our cars? i got the same problem too.

[Pokey]

I have hub-rings. Tried a different company for balance...will know tomorrow if it worked.

Keep us posted.

[Iceman_F1]

is it a common problem with our cars? i got the same problem too.

I didn't notice it with my stock rims or the previous set of aftermarket rims I had. Not sure if it's a common problem though I don't think it is...


Keep us posted.

Nope, still not fixed. Feels a bit better, but I still feel something. Might have to take someone for a test drive later at night to show them exactly what's going on. Might be me being picky but I doubt it is...

Then again, maybe it's not a wheel balance issue but something more. Not sure if it's tires (can't afford new ones right now) or something else...

[cwp_sedan]

What about an alignment issue? I know you said you had it done but it "could" still be off.

I would still make 100% sure it's not the rims or tires but that could be another option.

[Iceman_F1]

What about an alignment issue? I know you said you had it done but it "could" still be off.

I would still make 100% sure it's not the rims or tires but that could be another option.

Unless I would have to get them re-aligned after a balance, I had them aligned at my last service (64,000KM...currently around 69,000KM or so). I don't remember feeling a vibration around that time so not sure it could get that out of alignment that quickly.

As for not being 100% sure it's the rims/tires, none of the places I went to (QEW Mazda or Dream Tire) said anything about rims/tires being bad. Just that the balance was off. Kinda hard to see BOTH missing a problem with the actual rim/tire but who knows.

This is getting annoying to try and prove. It's hard to explain and doesn't help that the times I can show someone the issue is when the highway is clear enough that I can go ~100-115km/h. But when that happens, either no one is available to do a road test or the times someone is the highway is busy. Then again, never being a passenger in my car at those speeds, I can't say for sure if it's just me as the driver noticing it because I know what I'm looking for and I feel it a bit in the steering wheel/seat or if it's somehow more noticeable to me and no one else feels it...

Also doesn't help I've been busy and not had a lot of time to stop off anywhere to have someone look. Specially since I'm doing a long trip this weekend starting Thursday...

[midnightfxgt]

Just some thoughts from the peanut gallery here :)

1) Wheels were brand new, and no issues for the first while after install - Doubtful its the Wheels
2) Balance issues describe the symptoms, but after 3 balances - Doubtful its the balance
3) Tires were used, so you could have some funny wear, but we didnt notice anything when installed, and none of the other shops have noticed anything either. Coupled with the fact that you were fine when you had it the first while, and it was still present when you swapped to the rear - Doubtful its the tires. Maybe take a check for sawtoothing (run your hand over the contact area of the tire)

I am suspecting a wheel bearing or shock maybe? Just a guess.

[Iceman_F1]

Just some thoughts from the peanut gallery here :)

1) Wheels were brand new, and no issues for the first while after install - Doubtful its the Wheels
2) Balance issues describe the symptoms, but after 3 balances - Doubtful its the balance
3) Tires were used, so you could have some funny wear, but we didnt notice anything when installed, and none of the other shops have noticed anything either. Coupled with the fact that you were fine when you had it the first while, and it was still present when you swapped to the rear - Doubtful its the tires. Maybe take a check for sawtoothing (run your hand over the contact area of the tire)

I am suspecting a wheel bearing or shock maybe? Just a guess.

Well, it wasn't at first (at least I don't think it was) but after awhile it started to vibrate through the steering wheel so I just assumed some balance issue popped up specially since it wasn't in the steering wheel after rotating. Was I guess confirmed after getting QEW Mazda and Dream Tire to check...but you're right, no one said anything about the tires each time I brought them in...

Not 100% sure what to look for about sawtoothing but will give it a shot. I'm guessing for a wheel bearing it would be hard to check for unless I take it to a shop? If it was that, is it safe to drive on or is that something that needs to be looked at ASAP? QEW Mazda said they couldn't find anything wrong with the car but not sure they checked that or not. I'm guessing to check a shock try to push hard on one corner and see if it bounces more than it should?

[midnightfxgt]

If the issue moved from the front to the rear after the rotation, it could be a tire issue... I thought the problem was still there.

[Iceman_F1]

If the issue moved from the front to the rear after the rotation, it could be a tire issue... I thought the problem was still there.

Well, when I first noticed the vibration, it was felt more in the steering wheel. When I did the rotation, there was less in the steering wheel but still a vibration. Suspected wheel balance which did seem to help a bit at first but still notice a vibration. So maybe the initial wheel balance was covering up something else? Or if it's a tire issue, why didn't any of the other people say something? I would think that at one of the 3 times I did a balance someone might have said something...

[midnightfxgt]

If its a shifted belt, or tire slightly out of round, its not always obvious to see. If the vibration went from the wheel to the seat when you rotated, I am going to guess a tire.

[Iceman_F1]

If its a shifted belt, or tire slightly out of round, its not always obvious to see. If the vibration went from the wheel to the seat when you rotated, I am going to guess a tire.

And I'm guessing if it is the tire, only a new set will fix it? But would the balance machine not pick this up? Or would they balance it based on that and it would still show up?

[Iceman_F1]

I don't suppose anyone that might know and has time would be around NextMod around 4:30ish? Might swing by StreetPerformance but not sure if they have any balance machines or knowledge on something like this...at this point might just want someone to help make sure I'm not going crazy and not imagining things with the possibility of maybe a new idea on what might be going on...

[Iceman_F1]

Semi-update. Haven't had a chance to go back to a shop to get it looked at (and likely won't till next week sometime) but 1flycdnm3 went with me for a test drive to make sure it's not just me and he does feel vibration too. So at least when I get the chance to go back to a shop, if I can test drive with someone I can prove it!

Also, based on what I saw/felt, didn't look like the tires were sawtoothing? But might not know for sure...Not the best at seeing stuff like this if I'm not 100% sure what I'm looking for...

[Iceman_F1]

Another Semi-update. Last Wednesday, I swapped the fronts and backs. Still a vibration however to me, feels more in the steering wheel. Not sure if it's just rim or tire or both...though based on everything might be leaning towards rim. If that's the case, anyone have any recommendations on a place to tell for sure/get it fixed?

[wmzda5]

First thing you do to isolate cause of vibration on wheel/suspension:
1. check wheel bearing by shaking wheel assy. when you jack up the tire, jack point should be under the ball joint to stiffen it if the ball joint is the one defective.
2. Check all other suspension parts by shacking at both left and right full turn and at straight position. This is done with 2 person, 1 shaking and 1 looking for shaking /loose parts. ball joints, tie rod ends, control arm bushing, sway bar bushing and link and other unusual paarts that you may see.

of course together with checking wheel/tire, wheel balancing and alignment

[Pokey]

Good points wmzda5 - I'll have the mechanic take a peek for those issues as well - I'm also experiencing hopping but I know my tires are balanced. I figured that it was the engine mounts as someone here suggested (TSB) but it could be suspension/steering related as well.

[wmzda5]

Hopping usually mean worn out shocks

[Pokey]

Shocks are fine. All 3 engine mounts are gone and a drive shaft bearing (probably due to excessive hopping)

The front wheels which were "balanced fine" by a local shop have proven to be crooked - looking at them spin they wobble from side to side :(

So $900 ish later I'll have a "like new" 2005. If I ever go to that dealer again it will be to burn it down :grrr