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View Full Version : One step forward, two steps back (why the L3-VE sucks)



Gen1GT
07-11-2010, 11:15 AM
I'm sure most of the members of this club are aware of how bad the L3-VE is. If you don't know, I'll gladly fill you in.

Back in the late 80's, early 90's, Mazda had their B-Series engines. The top engine in North America was the BP-ZE which made 125 solid horsepower from 1.8 litres. With lower compression, it made almost as much power per litre as the L3, but in 1990.

It had a cast iron block with aluminum heads, aluminum valve cover and aluminum intake manifold with variable intake geometry.

The L3 has aluminum block and head, but has plastic valve cover and plastic intake manifold. Plastic isn't a bad thing, especially in preventing heat-soak, but they're harder to modify. But most of all it just looks cheap (which is why they were chosen, like the entire design of the engine; to be cheap).

The BP has forged crank, forged rods, chamfered oil passages and an inside gear pump (efficient) driven directly off the crank.

The L3 has cast crank, (I don't know if the rods are cast or forged, but I'd guess at cast), non-chamfered oil passages and an outside gear pump (inefficient) driven by a chain.

The L3 has a balance shaft which robs power and lowers fuel economy, and worst of all, robs oil flow (and therefore pressure) from key points on the engine (like the number 4 journals).

OK, so it has variable valve timing...big whup. Sure, it's more efficient than the BP, but that's really all you can say about it.

I recently repaired a spun bearing on the number for cylinder, and I can attest to how terrible this engine is. It's just stupid...borderline ignorant.

I can blame Ford, who's joint venture with Mazda on this engine, forced so many cost saving measures on Mazda, they had to choice but to build a piece of crap.

Electronic throttle = stupid
Plastic everything = stupid
Non-indexed bearing = unbelievably stupid!

The last one is especially stupid, considering the non-chamfered oil passages (I chamfered the number 4 journal myself) and oil robbing balance shaft (I also installed a balance shaft delete kit, and fuel economy went from 28 mpg to 30 mpg). Add to that, 5W20 oil, and you have a recipe for disaster.

If Mazda developed the BP further and gave it the same technology as the L3, with variable valve timing, higher compression and coil-on-plug ignition, it could have made 150 hp from 1.8 litres.

I'm a die-hard Mazda fan, and own three of them, but the L3 is garbage. One step forward in technology, and two steps back in construction.

Gen1GT
07-11-2010, 11:17 AM
*number four rod journal...I still don't know how to edit a post on this forum.

cwp_sedan
07-11-2010, 11:19 AM
*number four rod journal...I still don't know how to edit a post on this forum.

It's because you don't have 100 posts yet.

Gen1GT
07-11-2010, 02:50 PM
That's an odd rule.

Pokey
07-11-2010, 04:44 PM
Daaaaaamn! Someone knows a lot about engines! What do you do for a living?

Donutz
07-11-2010, 06:34 PM
Thank you very much for that post. I installed the BSD over a year ago out of fear and speculation that the BS was starving #4 of oil.

Gen1GT
07-11-2010, 06:42 PM
Daaaaaamn! Someone knows a lot about engines! What do you do for a living?

Hydraulic specialist with a strength in mobile equipment (diesel and gas powered hydraulic machinary). But also your average hardcore car guy.

mazda lover
07-12-2010, 12:39 AM
Thank you very much for that post. I installed the BSD over a year ago out of fear and speculation that the BS was starving #4 of oil.

what is BSD?
Thanks.

mazda lover
07-12-2010, 12:41 AM
You mention 5W20 oil, good or bad? if bad what should we be using? also are you talking about 2.0 or 2.3 engines? I have no clue

Donutz
07-12-2010, 08:30 AM
I'm fairly certain he's speaking about the 2.3L. The 2.0 doesn't have a balance shaft on it.

BSD = balance shaft delete (kit).

mazda lover
07-12-2010, 06:49 PM
I'm fairly certain he's speaking about the 2.3L. The 2.0 doesn't have a balance shaft on it.

BSD = balance shaft delete (kit).

Thanks Jason, this BSD kit easy to install? any more info would be helpful
Thanks

Donutz
07-12-2010, 07:05 PM
To be hones it's not hard to install, however, it does require that you remove your oil pan. This is beyond my abilities in my own garage so I had it installed at Street Performance.

An example of the part: https://www.f2usa.com/products/F2-Balance-Shaft-Delete-Kit.html

How to install: http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=44045.0

condor888000
07-12-2010, 07:17 PM
He's talking about the 2.3L, the 2.0L's code is something else, I can't remember what though. As was said, the BSD only needs to be done on the 2.3L if you want, the 2.0L does not have a balance shaft.

Oil is a big debate, 5W20 is recommended here, but 5W30 is spec'd in Europe and possibly Japan(not sure on that one) in the same engine. I started running 5W30 a year or two back, but have no data other than subjective stuff to go on. Gen1, you make the swap or still doing 5W20?

m3mtl
07-12-2010, 07:49 PM
I`m sure the SKY engines will be better. The 2.3 is Mazda`s mainstream engine; it is in almost all their models. The 2.5 is similar to the 2.3 I believe. What does a BSD do?

Donutz
07-12-2010, 08:06 PM
I think we're thread jacking now, but if you read that link I posted above and search M3F you will find loads of info. In short: opens up the bottom of cylinders 3 and 4; reduces parasitic drag on the crank; results in slightly faster revving engine, allows for approx. 1 qt of additional oil capacity, slight increase in fuel economy (about 1 - 2 hp increase at high revs), and exposes bottom of #3 and #4.

condor888000
07-12-2010, 10:08 PM
At the expense of slightly more vibrations.

Gen1GT
07-12-2010, 10:33 PM
5w20 oil is used to help meet the EPA's CAFE (Corporate Average Fuel Economy) targets, and that's the only reason. Mazda's fleet has to meet the average, and to increase it, they chose 5W20. Essentially it's easier to pump and reduces windage losses.

When I spun my bearing during an autocross run, it was actually with Redline 0W20. If it can still happen with Redline, what does that tell you about a 20 weight oil? I guess if I was a regular Joe that never raced, I would have been fine. But putting 5W20 in a crappy engine like that is like a fat guy smoking. Sure, some fat guys will live long lives, but a lot won't too. For the record, I use 5W40 now.

The balance shaft delete kit has actually raised my fuel economy from 28 mpg to 30 mpg.

Elusivellama
07-15-2010, 07:04 PM
Looks like I'm getting a BSD kit... thanks for this post.

Elusivellama
07-29-2010, 08:12 PM
BSD kit is in... just a large nut, small nut, oval piece of metal with two holes in it, and a dime-sized plug of some sort. Oh well, Jimmy will take care of 'er next Sat., then we'll see this balance shaft that's been parasitizing my engine's performance!

mazda lover
07-29-2010, 09:42 PM
BSD kit is in... just a large nut, small nut, oval piece of metal with two holes in it, and a dime-sized plug of some sort. Oh well, Jimmy will take care of 'er next Sat., then we'll see this balance shaft that's been parasitizing my engine's performance!

How much is the kit and what does Jimmy charge to install it..
thanks...

Elusivellama
07-29-2010, 10:47 PM
$20 USD from f2usa, and I was quoted $80 but I'm bringing my own oil and filter.

essaarcee
07-30-2010, 08:55 AM
you lost me here! $20USD but quoted $80...what does that $80 (assuming CAD) include?

sauga_kid
07-30-2010, 09:06 AM
you lost me here! $20USD but quoted $80...what does that $80 (assuming CAD) include?

I think what he means is that its $20USD for the part from f2usa and $80CAD for the install by Jimmy (w/o the oil and filter cuz he's bringing his own).

Donutz
07-30-2010, 10:38 AM
Yes, it is $20 USD for the part and $80 for install (labour) only. You will obviously need a new oil filter and oil. $80 does not cover oil/filter so you either need to supply your own or buy from Jim. Those considering the BSD might want to consider an oil pan baffle at the same time (saves on installation costs).

condor888000
07-30-2010, 04:26 PM
You could also just wait until you're due for an oil change and tack this on to that.

Elusivellama
07-30-2010, 06:53 PM
Yes, sorry... That's what I meant. Jimmy has his own oil and filters at the shop, but I wanted to put a specific brand in. I suppose I could wait until the next scheduled oil change, but I don't like the thought of the BS starving my cylinders of oil (potentially)

mazda lover
07-30-2010, 11:07 PM
Yes, it is $20 USD for the part and $80 for install (labour) only. You will obviously need a new oil filter and oil. $80 does not cover oil/filter so you either need to supply your own or buy from Jim. Those considering the BSD might want to consider an oil pan baffle at the same time (saves on installation costs).

is this what you mean by an oil pan baffle? its not a M3 but is it basically the same?
Thanks
http://www.kouchicentral.com/viper/oil_pan_baffle.htm

condor888000
07-31-2010, 01:16 AM
https://www.f2usa.com/products/F2-Oil-Sump-Baffle-Kit.html