stock headunit with aftermarket sub not hitting hard

[philipfreire]

Okay so I got my setup in and I notice the bass isn't hitting hard at all. I brought it out to la paloma last night and a lot of people said the same thing.

I had a similiar setup with 500 rms in my truclk and it hit hard. But in the 3 its not doing much. I got the system hooked up to the pac adapter into the HU and a few people are saying its because of the HU

I got the rcas coming out of the front speaker wires

I have the gain set correctly. Why is the system sounding so weak? Is it because of the HU? Would it nake that much of a difference??

Any pro audio guys on here able to help?

[mazdaskit]

Phil when i had my system hooked up like that and when i looked into it everywhere said to use the rear speaker wires and my system pounded when i had it like that also the rca crossover was to the max, maybe double check that

[MistaChin]

Subscribed. I'm interested in the answer too.

Sometimes I feel like my sub doesn't hit hard, and other days it hit's nicely.

[cwp_sedan]

Is your LOC adjustable?


EDIT: I have mine hooked up through my front speakers also.

[Thrizzl3]

phil like we said get an aftermarket deck that way you will have a separate signal for the subwoofer. i had the same issue with my stock unit when i had it. you don't have to go all out for a double din lol just buy a cheat $50 deck it will do the trick. Also lets get a ported box and try to it to see what happens.

[mdass52]

An aftermarket deck is definitely not necessary. For this application, since you already have a basic LOC...you have 2 options. Get a LOC with auto-summing features ($150 +) ex. Jl cleansweep, mtx re-q, fosgate 3sixty.

Or get a pre-amp line driver. This connects to your rca wires, then to your amp (has rca in and rca out) This increases or decreases the pre-amp voltage to the amp. The higer the volts, the clearer and louder the sound.

Can be found on ebay for $20 give or take a few bucks.

[philipfreire]

http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/assets/ProductImages/PAC_AOEM-MAZ2.jpg

I got this unit hooked up.


OEM-1 with a vehicle specific harness plugs into the vehicle's wiring and offers a 4 channel RCA audio output for adding aftermarket amplification. Provides full range audio output 20-20,000Hz. Audio output level is controlled by the volume of the factory radio.


So I think it doesnt increase or decrease the output levels. I think I should go with an aftermarket double din unit soon.

[Gizzmo_jr]

I noticed a difference whey mine was changed to off the rear's. But I have a David Navone LOC

[philipfreire]

Thanks guys,

Gizzmo Jr, I have been reading a lot about LOC and David Navone LOC is a top notch piece. Also everyones saying to hook it up to the rears. I'm going to attempt this now.

[MistaChin]

Thanks guys,

Gizzmo Jr, I have been reading a lot about LOC and David Navone LOC is a top notch piece. Also everyones saying to hook it up to the rears. I'm going to attempt this now.

Let us know how this goes!

[philipfreire]

Okay I did it... mmmm changed nothing. It allows me to set the fade to back which brings out more bass, but in reality your just cranking up gain. I'm starting to believe that one sub is just not enough for me. Don't get me wrong, it fills out the car nicely with a bit more lows, but it doesn't give that thump that I'm seeking.

[eguiyab]

I believe that the issue mainly has to do with the signal voltage being sent to the amp. The unit you have no is at the mercy of your current HU sending a low amount of power/signal to your amp. It is possible to turn up the gain on the AMP, however you will run into issues of poor sound quality and also depending how low the signal is in the first place, even with the gain at MAX, you may not be getting to a level that you are happy with.

As someone had mentioned, you can try a line driver or switching to rears to see if there might be a difference. I can understand the desire to keep the stock deck, however after all the gear you've put in, and how much you have/might spend on sorting out the LOC issue - may run into the price of a fairly decent single din deck.

By using an aftermarket deck, on avg the preouts now-a-days are at least 3v and will allow much more tayloring of sound to your preferences. Stick with what you got now, and see if you can find a quick cheap fix, but you may find your best sound experience with a aftermarket deck. BTW, i know it sounds basic, but make sure the connections are tight - you never know.

Just a quick comment about aftermarket double din decks - I would strongly recommend doing your research on these in regards to sound quality. I say this as I went from a Single Din Pioneer DEH-P80MP to a double din Pioneer AVH p4100DVD. Even tho the p80mp was an older deck on its last legs, I do believe it provided a audible edge over the new 4100dvd. I, however am very very critical of my sound and how it is presented and how i like to hear things....
In general the P4100dvd does sound great, and most 80-99% of people i ask or who have sat in my car cant notice any single difference - I can. The double din decks are awesome and they look great and pretty fancy and all... but in the end, you want it to sound good.

There tends to be more focus on the Video on double din decks than the Audio.... that is until you start spending loads of $$$. Eventually, I will revert back to a single din - but not just yet. My 4100 is still to fresh for me to wanna part with it already.

[Gizzmo_jr]

My LOC outputs 0-5v. So lots of juice for the signal going to the amp. It's simply not just going from stock wires to RCA's, upping the signal like if it were coming from a true headunit is key.

[McGuyver_3]

being bose doesnt the headunit put out an even lower signal then a normal deck? the deck should be puting out a lower output because it is going to the amp no? This would mean that you are dubbing down a low signal anyways or do i have the concept all wrong?

[philipfreire]

Okay, after doing some research online. I think I nailed it down to the HU. Dan, eguiyab, yes your right. The headunit is sending a relatively low signal. Also having the Bose system, it makes matters worse. This is done to prevent the stock speakers from blowing.

The solution is to either get an aftermarket headunit or a sound processor such as AudioControl LC6i, JL CleanSweep and/or MTX re-Q5.

Quote from a guy on another forum:

Hi Pat;
ALL factory HU's are dialed to lower bass signals as the volume increases. You can really tell as you slowly turn up your volume; the sound has a different characteristic with increased volume at every step.
The way cleansweep works is that it provides at very linear signal ratio all the way up the volume scale.

The PAC unit does NOT correct the issue with the factory HU output but maintain the ease of connection and the use of steering controls. You may not notice a huge difference without having some sort of a signal correction system.

I think I will be looking into an aftermarket double din since that was the route I was going anyways.

[McGuyver_3]

I hate to say it Phil but i told you so lol. I warned you about that. Although I assume you could go after pac now as they did advertise the product for both bose and non bose. Just a thought. Your other option at the moment would be to splice in to your wiring for the output of the amplifier those should be high outs. I do know that you don't want to splice though

[philipfreire]

Actually I'm glad I bought the OEM-1 Adapter. In the end I will not have to splice anything OEM. I will just splice into the OEM-1 Adapter, leaving the OEM wiring untouched. I can connect the JL Sweep (If I went that route) to the wiring on the OEM-1 Adapter.

I'll share a bit on my reading:


Factory stereos have built-in sound shaping

Your factory stereo uses preset equalization designed to make cheap factory speakers sound better, meaning that it automatically adjusts the different frequencies, creating audio "peaks and valleys" which can degrade sound quality. It is particularly noticeable when you add amplifiers, speakers and subwoofers to your setup, as any deficits in the sound are literally amplified.

Most factory stereos also limit the bass output as volume increases in an attempt to protect the speakers. The trouble is, even if you upgrade your speakers and install an amp and subwoofer, the bass output is still limited by your factory stereo. This throws your system out of balance and makes the bass sound muddy and weak.


So what if the factory sound doesn't cut it?

Fortunately, there's an easy cure. You can install a sound processor which strips away the sound-shaping limitations enforced by your factory stereo, sending a clean signal to your external amplifiers. The amps send the signal to your speakers and subs. Your reward will be resonant lows, sparkling highs, and a realistic sense of space and depth.


Are these sound processors complicated to install?

Installation generally isn't too difficult — these processors connect to your stereo using your vehicle's speaker wires, and then to your amps and subs. You'll be able to keep the look and controls of your factory stereo, but expand your system for serious sound.

Also to note, our HU pump out 2.0V constantly. I just did a test using a multimeter. The point of a pre volt is that a higher pre volt (such as 4-or-5) will result in less noise-to-signal from one end of the wire to the other. The thing that makes HU so great is that some come with higher pre out voltage and that the EQ is customizable, unlike the stock HU.

[philipfreire]

I found a video that demonstrates the issue I am having. I will be ordering this unit since I found it on ebay for about 70 bucks. Much cheaper than buying a double din unit + harness + faceplate trim.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P295tCKOqh0

[cwp_sedan]

I found a video that demonstrates the issue I am having. I will be ordering this unit since I found it on ebay for about 70 bucks. Much cheaper than buying a double din unit + harness + faceplate trim.

Let us know how it goes. I don't have this issue but then again I don't have BOSE either.

[McGuyver_3]

contact davethebmx'r I installed this unit in his car and he was having some issues with it. I dont know if he managed to fix it because i know he told me another person was having the same issues. I think he went to an aftermarket deck though.

JUST GET A DECK.... you are always saying thats the route you are going. Dont do my mistake been there done that lol

[tycho81]

I ran into this problem with the stock deck on my previous car (pontiac G6). RE: posted "info". The deck was trimming out frequency as you raised the volume in order to save the speakers from blowing. upshot was that as soon as I turned up the volume to compensate for an open window, I lost all (a lot anyway) the bass from my sub. I lasted a whole month and then bought my double din unit (which I'm still using). Best decision I ever made.
Also, now without a separate trunk, I feel the sub a lot more. I can't stop my rear view mirror from vibrating uncontrollably.

I've also got an older single din sitting here that I had for my first car (1996 chrysler cirrus! WOO!!!). It's yours if you want it... it's older. but still works.

Sony CDX-F7705X http://a248.e.akamai.net/pix.crutchfield.com/products/2004/158/h158CDX7705-f.jpeg
it's pre-ipod adapters but supports mp3 cd's... it has sub-out and pre-outs and an AUX-IN -> does in place of ipod connector or nasty fm transmitters.
online manual is here. -> http://www.docs.sony.com/release/CDXF7705X.pdf
I should still have the box and all paperwork around somewhere. I've also still got the remote that came with it (needed to set the time oddly)

As I said, it's yours if you want it. It's just collecting dust right now.

[philipfreire]

contact davethebmx'r I installed this unit in his car and he was having some issues with it. I dont know if he managed to fix it because i know he told me another person was having the same issues. I think he went to an aftermarket deck though.

JUST GET A DECK.... you are always saying thats the route you are going. Dont do my mistake been there done that lol

Your right dan. I bought the unit... but just returned it.. Ill hold out for the double din.
Thank you Tycho81, Ill use the deck to test the subs and make sure its enough power for me in the 3. :)

[philipfreire]

Just a note: The 08.5 to 09 Bose system has a different volume count. (My volume goes up to 62 then hits max). Figures that they changed this up in 08.5 where they added the bass roll off to protect the speakers. The 07 Bose system did not have this, hence why some people with the Bose sound system do not need a sound processor.

[McGuyver_3]

Yeah you are better off saving the money and buying the double dinn you know the difference it made on my car and I am running the stock Bose speakers with amp. When you get that your bass and eq can be filly adjusted separately and you will be able to get the bass that you want to have and what you are looking for

[philipfreire]

Yeah you are better off saving the money and buying the double dinn you know the difference it made on my car and I am running the stock Bose speakers with amp. When you get that your bass and eq can be filly adjusted separately and you will be able to get the bass that you want to have and what you are looking for

Very true Dan, Thank you for the help. I guess I'll just live with it now until I get the Deck. :)

[McGuyver_3]

They sell simple double dinn screens unless you really want to go big. Unless it's because of the preouts that you want to go with the better decks then yeah it's understandable why you would want to go that route. Higher preouts are better though. When I had my alpine it had much lower preouts and the sound difference was also noticeable between the new and the old one.

[philipfreire]

Yeah If Im going double din that I want nav. I might match it up with the Kenwood DNX9960 or mix it up with the Pioneer Z110BT

[philipfreire]

Problem SOLVED!

The HU was the weakest link. It killed almost all bass going into the subwoofer. I tested this method out by using Phil05gt's deck and set the gain's accordingly to the input of his deck and let me tell you, it hit. It hit hard! Finally felt what a 500watt rms system feels like and I was more than pleased!!! Hell... think I may need dynamat. Phil as my witness on this one, Im sure he can tell you.

I'm impressed. Now its time for a double din. Sticking with Kenwood of course! :) DNX9960 baby!

[Thrizzl3]

Problem SOLVED!

The HU was the weakest link. It killed almost all bass going into the subwoofer. I tested this method out by using Phil05gt's deck and set the gain's accordingly to the input of his deck and let me tell you, it hit. It hit hard! Finally felt what a 500watt rms system feels like and I was more than pleased!!! Hell... think I may need dynamat. Phil as my witness on this one, Im sure he can tell you.

I'm impressed. Now its time for a double din. Sticking with Kenwood of course! :) DNX9960 baby!

if only i had a GT :(

[philipfreire]

if only i had a GT :(

oops! my bad haha.. yo.. its basically a GT with all your mods. :)

[FLIPDADY]

Phil you def need to grab this part then.

http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?45364-FS-Kanatechs-Piano-Black-Double-Din-Installation-Kit-%28TBXE-T005K%29-*Never-Installed*

[tycho81]

Nice! glad to hear you figured out the broken link.
sorry about this past week, got a bit hectic before heading out of town...

FYI.. seems as though Speed3's have sold pretty well in Seattle...