Mazda Pushing Synthetic Oil

[sarujo]

Looks like Mazda is trying to push synthetic oil for your service visits. I just received the following via email today. Note the fine print indicating $49.95 is the starting price for 0W20. I was under the impression that synthetic oil changes at the dealer for our M3's were about $65-$70 using 5W20. Maybe they have lowered the prices?

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Once you see what synthetic oil can do for your Mazda, you'll wonder why you didn't switch sooner


Dear ____________,

Oil is the lifeblood of your Mazda. So the better your oil, the better it lubricates the engine and keeps it running cleaner, longer.

That's why switching to synthetic oil can help...
• Improve driving performance in tough conditions like start-stop city driving, high temperatures, towing, winter and mountain driving
• Guard your engine better against rust and corrosion
• Start quicker in winter, with less wear-and-tear on your engine
• Cool your engine better in the summertime
• Get better fuel economy
• Save you money in the long run and help your Mazda last longer
Mazda synthetic oil is designed to provide an unsurpassed level of performance, cleaning power, and engine protection.

Ask us about switching to synthetic oil next time you visit.
Starting from $49.95* for your regular 8,000 km/4-month Maintenance Service.

*Based on 0W20

[Caesu]

I got this email as well, so it caught me eye. My only question is that if you want to switch to synthetic, doesnt your car have to be still relatively new? Im at 44,000km's, so Im not sure. I remember somewhere reading that if you use conventional for a while then switch to synthetic, the engines oil seals might leak since its a lot more thin or some such?

[sarujo]

At that mileage I don't think you have anything to worry about. I'm sure many TM3'ers will chime in with their experiences. I was under the impression that higher mileage (100k+) engine are more prone to leaking since the syn is so good at cleaning out the engine that buildup around the older hardened seals was removed thus making it easier for leaks to occur.

[froggy]

not such a big deal anymore, even most non - syn oils have addatives to condition seals, so I wouldn't worry about that in terms of worrying about leaking

[stevenma188]

^+1 I switched to synthetics when my car was at 180k

[philipfreire]

I got this too. Been running Mobil 1 5w20 since new and am wondering if I should change over to their synthetic oil. I know Motorcraft is pretty good stuff, affiliated with ConocoPhillips, but am wondering if this is new Synthetic oil or the synthetic blend?

[essaarcee]

A month back when i was at the dealership for my 1st oil change, and I wanted to use synthetic oil, they told me "Mazda does not recommend to use synthetic oil", if you insist at least wait till 10000km + etc

And now they themselves saying "Use synthetic oil"....wow!!!!
conflicting!!!

[TheMAN]

sounds like the email came from a dealer to try to sucker in more sales, not from Mazda Canada themselves... Mazda *does* have an official branded synthetic oil, but they don't push it
the only car that has a requirement for synthetic is the mazda2

[repoman_2]

The email was from Mazda Canada themselves. I received the same email as well today

[sarujo]

It was not from a particular dealer but from Mazda Canada using a 3rd party email marketing company (Create Send):

Received: from mo111.createsend.com (mo111.createsend.com [206.72.127.111])
From: "Mazda Canada" <mazda@mazdaemotion.ca>





sounds like the email came from a dealer to try to sucker in more sales, not from Mazda Canada themselves... Mazda *does* have an official branded synthetic oil, but they don't push it
the only car that has a requirement for synthetic is the mazda2

[FLIPDADY]

Running Mazda synthetic since day 1.

[Charlie S]

I was under the impression that the leakage will occure if you go back to regular oil after you have been using syntetic.

[aris]

I was under the impression that the leakage will occure if you go back to regular oil after you have been using syntetic.

That is what i been told too...but i know a few people who go back and forth and never had a problem so who knows..

[Charlie S]

I just had my second service done, that is 16,000 Km. For my next one I am seriously considering switching to Syntetic, especiallly for winter, But I will stick to Mobile 1..

[RedRaptor]

Running synthetic since 3000km back in 2004. Car has 150,000km on it right now. Engine is still mint.

[Cardinal Fang]

Running synthetic since my first oil change in 2006. 110,000 kms without any issues on the engine.

[She_Prime]

Switched to Mobil 1 5W20 at my 16,000km oil change and then switched again to 0W30 German Castrol at my 48,000km change. Now nearing 80k with no issues at all.

[Olestra]

Been running Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 since 40000kms and now at 62000kms.
No problems so far.

[taz4432]

I run 0W30 German Castrol but I do 5k interval oil changes. I have no complaints about it but there is no way I would wait until 8k, even with the full synthetic. Normally it comes out pretty dark even at 5k so although in the long run it costs me a fair bit more (given that I'm on course to do 60k+ this year) I'd rather the peace of mind.

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

Any Mazda3 can wait 8,000 KM between oil changes, even on conventional, non-synthetic oil. FYI.

Partly agree. I personally wouldn't run 8K on pure dino oil in an MZ3, but that is just me being anal. I don't run dino oil, plain and simple.

On any decent synthetic, you can easily run 8K without any significant shear of the oil in a normal running MZ3 engine. There are countless oil analysis' on BITOG to validate this. The caveat being that if you track the car on a regular basis, you wouldn't want to wait for the 8K duration. The length of time the oil sits in the engine is also a determining factor. Say if you're only driving the car 8k a year, I wouldn't leave the synthetic in the engine for that 1 year duration. I'd recommend to change it out no later than 6 months. Mazda of course, would say 3 months. ;)

[Kris"Speed3"CWP]

Too many blown engine's and turbo seals leaking in the Disi engine!! They have to try and cut their expenses!!
Very easy way without taking on an liabilities!!

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

Too many blown engine's and turbo seals leaking in the Disi engine!! They have to try and cut their expenses!!
Very easy way without taking on an liabilities!!

http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0910/im-not-a-troll-demotivational-poster-1256888119.jpg

...but thanks for coming out anyway.

[Neo]

Has anyone checked their oil levels before doing a service on the car?

I know when I had my 05 Mazda3, the 2lt would burn a bit of oil every 4k. Every 4k I would check it, and sure enough I would be down 1/4 of oil. I would top up, and on I went.

This alone is a reason I would never switch to "synthetic".
Burning synthetic as opposed to regular dino juice doesn't bode well for the engine. Synthetic doesn't burn the same and leaves trails behind.
I went 96k on the engine in 3yrs. I switched the car out for an 08 Miata PRHT.

The cars from the factory come with regular fluids in all their mechanical operations.
Since I knew the engine was based on the 2lt engine found in the 3, I waited to see if it'll burn oil at the same interval.

After doing a minor break in, I did some oil level checking after the first oil service. And sure enough, she would burn 1/4 of oil every 4k.
Running Castrol GTX 5w20 in the Miata without a hitch. Just gotta make sure to check the 4k interval to top off on the oil.
This also depends on how hard you run the engine. I noticed with more spirited driving, it consumes a bit more oil.

Granted, I'm use to this type of behavior from my RX-7. Topping off on oil is nothing new to me. Only with the Miata I do it with less frequency than the RX-7.
Every 4th time I drive the RX-7 I have to add 1/2 a litre of oil in the car. She burns quite a bit.

Another area I don't like synthetic fluid in is the tranny.

The Mazda dealer did the tranny fluid on my last big service, and they switched it over to Synthetic. Getting into gears when the car is cold has become a huge problem. Gotta take it very slow for the first 5min's or so. Not until the engine gets to full operating temperature, then it operates as if it had its original fluid in the box.

I'm thinking of changing the fluid out before this winter season. If its difficult to put into gear when the weather is nice because the car is cold, I can't imagine what winter is going to be like.

Damn synthetics!

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

I check the oil in both the MS3 and the 05' Gt Hatch regularly. Neither has burned any oil and they have been synthetic (Amsoil 5W-30 in the MS3 and Syntec 5w-20 and now German Syntec 0W-30) since after the first 1500-2000km on the engine. I also have synthetic tranny fluid MT-90 in both cars and in the MS3 in particular, it made a noticeable difference in shift engagement, particulary when cold. So, my results at least don't mirror what you are seeing.

Also, my previous car was a 2000 Protege LX with the 1.8L engine. I ran Castrol 5W-50 in that car from its first oil change up to the point it was written off in an accident some approximately 260,000km later. Engine ran like new and never burned oil. It was also driven very, very hard as I used to wind it through the gears whenever I could.

Different strokes for different folks I guess. Ultimately, syn. vs. dino has been covered to death already on this forum and it is a personal choice.

[Kris"Speed3"CWP]

Really as said by Zoom Zoom Boy go to Bob The Oil Guy forum and see some oil analysis from there forums. They have WRX,WRX STi's, Mazda-speeds and it gives you actual data of the lubricity left in oil TBN etc.. for mileage. DISI turbo sheers down mineral oil period and I would not run it to 8,000km. But do an oil analysis http://www.polarislabs1.com/how-to-get-started.php then make you own decision an informed one!! this lab actually does more test like TBN and Soot content at no additional cost and the kits are free till you send them in. I am running Amsoil 15W-40 synthetic diesel oil in my 2010 Speed3 as per MCI warranty fix since 16,000km. Really why would MCI run this oil there has to be a reason.
1)Amsoil is the best
2)Running overly rich creates soot in the combustion chamber from unburnt fuel and this mixes with oil like diesels and if the oil cannot suspend the particles independently they form together to create large engine wearing particle in the oil!
3)The thicker oil 40 prevents oil getting by turbo seals
4)Diesel oil is more resilient to sheering by fuel like the shell rotella T6 oil and Amsoil CJ-4 which diesel oil must meet.
5) prevent oils being broken down and spit out the exhaust valves and showing up as Blueish Grey smoke under W.O.T in bright sunlight out rear of car.

I have not done Oil analysis yet but will once I hit 6,000km on the amsoil to see what the readings are and then will increase to the max 8,000km interval even if TBN is 5-6 where this could stay in longer to 16,000km and TBN ratings can go as low as 1-1.5 TBN but Mazda has service intervals regardless of what your oil analysis says. Hey but you can always fight them and with the oil analysis they would eventually pay up! Every engine is different and and Oil analysis will show what you need even if it is just changing brands!
P.S 2010 Mazda speed on the oil forums runs Castrol GTX dino oil and his sodium level are off the chart due to additives in the oil, usually sodium is from coolant leak so in his case I would change oil brands! Research and don't assume ppl $40 test can save you grief!

[TheMAN]

I run 0W30 German Castrol but I do 5k interval oil changes. I have no complaints about it but there is no way I would wait until 8k, even with the full synthetic. Normally it comes out pretty dark even at 5k so although in the long run it costs me a fair bit more (given that I'm on course to do 60k+ this year) I'd rather the peace of mind.

I run 16k intervals with GC... not sure why you're wasting your money like this... I have 11k on it on my current change, and the oil still looks golden brown, not even black yet!

dipstick has ALWAYS been full also
running your typical 5W20 oil shears down and then burns off way too easily!

[WeatherB]

I run 16k intervals with GC... not sure why you're wasting your money like this... I have 11k on it on my current change, and the oil still looks golden brown, not even black yet!

dipstick has ALWAYS been full also
running your typical 5W20 oil shears down and then burns off way too easily!

Hate to say this but with that kind of interval you are pretty much SOL on any major engine warranty work (assuming you are still under warranty).

[Neo]

As someone has said, every engine is different.
The important thing is you're taking care of the engine. That's the most important thing.
The people who go on forums, or on the internet, are the ones who are most worried about their vehicles.
I'm pretty sure the typical driver wouldn't take 2 sec's to do research regarding their car. As long as they take it to the dealer, they assume they know what they're doing.

Everyone keep maintaining their vehicle. That's the important thing.

[McGuyver_3]

been running mobil 1 full synthetic pretty much from day one in my previous 3 and with about 95xxx km it was still runing mint and had it not been for the write off i would still have it. On my 10 been running castrol full syn from day 1 same thing with my second engine and the car is running mint. For the older cars that have been running mineral oil i wouldnt suggest switching to synthetic because i dont know how the seals and all will hold up towards it but an 04 05 06 etc etc will be fine. Mazda uses a semi synthetic anyways

[taz4432]

Any Mazda3 can wait 8,000 KM between oil changes, even on conventional, non-synthetic oil. FYI.


Partly agree. I personally wouldn't run 8K on pure dino oil in an MZ3, but that is just me being anal. I don't run dino oil, plain and simple.

On any decent synthetic, you can easily run 8K without any significant shear of the oil in a normal running MZ3 engine. There are countless oil analysis' on BITOG to validate this. The caveat being that if you track the car on a regular basis, you wouldn't want to wait for the 8K duration. The length of time the oil sits in the engine is also a determining factor. Say if you're only driving the car 8k a year, I wouldn't leave the synthetic in the engine for that 1 year duration. I'd recommend to change it out no later than 6 months. Mazda of course, would say 3 months. ;)

Well, I do track my car and even on the intervals where I don't (which are frequent given how much mileage I do - some oil changes are a few weeks apart) the oil comes out black. Not just a honey-brown but black - at 5k. I'd rather the peace of mind for the extra cost.

[TheMAN]

Hate to say this but with that kind of interval you are pretty much SOL on any major engine warranty work (assuming you are still under warranty).
car is well past warranty (it's almost obvious if you looked at the sig) and it never had a single mechanical issue at all... in fact, I had less problems than people who were using whatever crap the dealer put in and going by the book... their engines burned oil, mine didn't... their engines had bad purge valves, mine hasn't yet (knocks on wood)... and besides, the engine warranty was technically voided the minute I converted the oil filter on the first oil change

there is almost no reason to worry about an extended interval with a quality synthethic like german castrol, because it not only protects the engine better, but makes it wear much slower... the odds of engine (running synthetic on an extended duration) going boom is much less than someone running into your car... running dino oil might not have such good odds, but the idea is still the same

Well, I do track my car and even on the intervals where I don't (which are frequent given how much mileage I do - some oil changes are a few weeks apart) the oil comes out black. Not just a honey-brown but black - at 5k. I'd rather the peace of mind for the extra cost.
the oil colour is not indicative to the condition of the oil... it's just how well the detergents are doing it's job... some oils (such as redline) quickly turn dark... does that mean it went to crap already? NO! what determines when the oil is bad or not is the degradation of the additive package and the acidity/alkalinity levels (total acid number/total base number)

if you have never done an oil analysis with that oil, then don't just go declare it dead... however, it's been proven that GC goes strong as much as 16000km with many different engines... ones that are hard on oil and ones that aren't


anyway, if it makes you all warm and fuzzy inside changing the oil at 5k instead of 16k, go ahead... it's your money and your car... but just remember that those dino oil evangelists use people like you as an example to preach how synthetic oil changes are a waste of money... it's true, 5k oil changes are proven a waste of money on synthetic when you can easily go twice that and break even in costs (in DIY... you're actually ahead if you paid to get it changed) with still PLENTY of fudge factor to go around with the oil

[philipfreire]

They probably noticed a lot of people going out of their way to bring in their own synthetic oil and they just want to get in on the profit. They figured if they can market their synthetic with its plus advantages people would just buy their synthetic over other brands.

[taz4432]

Any Mazda3 can wait 8,000 KM between oil changes, even on conventional, non-synthetic oil. FYI.


Partly agree. I personally wouldn't run 8K on pure dino oil in an MZ3, but that is just me being anal. I don't run dino oil, plain and simple.

On any decent synthetic, you can easily run 8K without any significant shear of the oil in a normal running MZ3 engine. There are countless oil analysis' on BITOG to validate this. The caveat being that if you track the car on a regular basis, you wouldn't want to wait for the 8K duration. The length of time the oil sits in the engine is also a determining factor. Say if you're only driving the car 8k a year, I wouldn't leave the synthetic in the engine for that 1 year duration. I'd recommend to change it out no later than 6 months. Mazda of course, would say 3 months. ;)


car is well past warranty (it's almost obvious if you looked at the sig) and it never had a single mechanical issue at all... in fact, I had less problems than people who were using whatever crap the dealer put in and going by the book... their engines burned oil, mine didn't... their engines had bad purge valves, mine hasn't yet (knocks on wood)... and besides, the engine warranty was technically voided the minute I converted the oil filter on the first oil change

there is almost no reason to worry about an extended interval with a quality synthethic like german castrol, because it not only protects the engine better, but makes it wear much slower... the odds of engine (running synthetic on an extended duration) going boom is much less than someone running into your car... running dino oil might not have such good odds, but the idea is still the same

the oil colour is not indicative to the condition of the oil... it's just how well the detergents are doing it's job... some oils (such as redline) quickly turn dark... does that mean it went to crap already? NO! what determines when the oil is bad or not is the degradation of the additive package and the acidity/alkalinity levels (total acid number/total base number)

if you have never done an oil analysis with that oil, then don't just go declare it dead... however, it's been proven that GC goes strong as much as 16000km with many different engines... ones that are hard on oil and ones that aren't


anyway, if it makes you all warm and fuzzy inside changing the oil at 5k instead of 16k, go ahead... it's your money and your car... but just remember that those dino oil evangelists use people like you as an example to preach how synthetic oil changes are a waste of money... it's true, 5k oil changes are proven a waste of money on synthetic when you can easily go twice that and break even in costs (in DIY... you're actually ahead if you paid to get it changed) with still PLENTY of fudge factor to go around with the oil

I know that the colour is not the only indicator of the state of an oil, but being a broke and highly in debt student whose engine blew 2 1/2 months into owning the car, I'd rather maintain a rigorous service schedule, especially since I do drive it to the limit at the track/strip. I don't baby my gas pedal - it knows the floor intimately.
Engines are not cheap to rebuild/replace, let alone trying to find the time and means to do the swap/rebuilding. This new engine only had 18k on the clock when I got it so for all intents and purposes, I know how it's being taken care of from (right near) the start of its life (it's already got almost 45k on it now in 6 months since doing the swap, and that's with close to 1000 track kilometres this summer).

Yes, I completely understand (and have from day 1) that 5k oil changes with GC are probably excessive (with the possible exception of the intervals where I track it) but it's a cost I'm willing to incur. I've got enough shit on my plate, I don't want another blown engine on my first car. I've already had to replace pretty much everthing mechanical on the car other than struts/springs, but you don't hear me whining about it.

[TheMAN]

consider installing the stock (aka "cosworth") oil cooler then