Tire Fitment at SEMA show

[mazdilla]

Hey Dave, I didn't want to hijack your SEMA thread, so I posted here.

I borrowed a couple of your pics:

http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/usdm_4.jpg

http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/orange_black_2.jpg

http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/dori.jpg

I'm somewhat a noob to this tuner scene. So, my questions are....

What's with the tires on these cars? The sidewalls are bent outwards. Is this what they call 'stretched' ?

Isn't that dangerous? The look like they are ready to fold flat or blow off the bead/rim juncture.

... maybe even illegal in some states/provinces?

BTW, that orange Toyota is just sick! Awesome pics, dude!

[cereal83]

It's called Hella flush I think. It's the new thing everybody is doing.

[fini]

that stance is hella ugly and hella stupid IMO.
i was at cayuga and a GTI rolled in lookin' like that and i almost barfed in my mouth seeing a ruined MkVI. needless to say he was only there to watch.

[stevenma188]

The overall look/stance of the car is hella flush, referring to how flush the tires are with the fenders.

You are correct that fitting narrower tires on wider rims is called "stretched". Extremely stretched tires are dangerous, but a little bit of stretch is ok. The point of stretching a tire is to be able to fit wider than normal rims under the fender.

[mazdilla]

The overall look/stance of the car is hella flush, referring to how flush the tires are with the fenders.

You are correct that fitting narrower tires on wider rims is called "stretched". Extremely stretched tires are dangerous, but a little bit of stretch is ok. The point of stretching a tire is to be able to fit wider than normal rims under the fender.

Gotcha on that part Steve, the stretched thing, and the Hella Flush as well, guys.

But the questions that remain unanswered are:

Is it dangerous? (... besides being down-right stupid as it goes against the engineering properties/integrity of the tire.)

Is it legal? (I don't think any mechanic would safety this cluster-fack tire/rim combo.)

It is probably a heat score as well.

[Donutz]

Stretch and poke.

[Aitch]

From the look of things, some modern cars like the IS350 come with mildly stretched tires from the factory. At least that's what the sidewall profile looks like, although it may be just the brand of tire. I've had no issues with my 215/45R18s on an 8" wide wheel (a very mild stretch).

[MistaChin]

No issues with me as well. I'm running 225/40/18's on an 8.5" wide wheel.

But I do agree, those pics above are a little too much.

[PearlM3]

Of course running tires that are that stretched is extremely dangerous. The thing is you can't judge by the cars at sema, because most of those cars are Shipped by truck to the show, and the most driving time they will see is from the truck into the building. You don't really have to worry about blowing a tire if you dont' get the car over 20 km/hr.

On a side note, I think this trend is rediculous. If you want to run a wider rim, buy a car that can handle it!

[sp3GT]

Running stretched tires isn't really a new thing. Maybe a bit more popular now?

I'm running 215/45/17 stretched a bit on an 8 inch wheel, I don't like the look of it but thats what my car came with.

[taz4432]

that stance is hella ugly and hella stupid IMO.
i was at cayuga and a GTI rolled in lookin' like that and i almost barfed in my mouth seeing a ruined MkVI. needless to say he was only there to watch.

+Infinity!


Btw...I hope somebody ripped that Z06 badge off the car (it's so 'uglified' that I'm not even 100% sure what car it started off as) in the top photo. What a disgrace to the Z06 heritage...

[mazdilla]

I'll ask again, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.................... (... just kidding!)

Is it dangerous? (... any stories/pics about these extreme mount combos collapsing are welcome.)

Is it legal?

[PearlM3]

I'll ask again, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.................... (... just kidding!)

Is it dangerous? (... any stories/pics about these extreme mount combos collapsing are welcome.)

Is it legal?

1.)Yes it is dangerous.

2.)I wouldn't want to get pulled over on the highway with tires like that!

[taz4432]

I'll ask again, grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.................... (... just kidding!)

Is it dangerous? (... any stories/pics about these extreme mount combos collapsing are welcome.)

Is it legal?

Dangerous, yes. I can't provide you with specific examples offhand but whenever you take things past the designed working limits you're risking things and I see things going wrong very quickly at speeds other than rolling around a parking lot/show.

Legal? Couldn't tell you but I don't think that it's technically illegal...I'm sure the cops would find something to get you with though - they're pretty good at that. As Pearl said, I wouldn't want to be pulled over with tires like that.

[mazdilla]

I found this info on a Bimmer forum:


Danger issues -http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=541138


Positive effects of tyre stretching:
Nil

Negative effects:
Rims left totally exposed to kerb rash damage
Tyres distorted due to being fitted to too wide a rim requiring much higher inflation pressures to prevent excessive wear on the edges of the tread surface
Rough choppy ride due to higher inflation requirements
Likelyhood of actually having the tyre coming off the bead if impacted
Higher wear rate on suspension components
Higher wear rate on wheel bearings
Poor directional stability due to wrong offset being used

Legal issues - ?????????????


Engineering issues -
http://forums.focaljet.com/tire-rack-tires-wheels-brakes-forum/523021-stretched-tires-safety-issues.html

Our position on "S-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g" is one should not! Most if not all of the information presented in this tread so far appears to be fact supported by either documentation, i.e., manufacturer's specifications, real life experience. So I am sure for those that have successfully stretched their tires without issue feel comfortable with their decision, however, as pointed out in some of the post's, the rim width range is a fixed number assigned as an international standard and as such it is recommend by all manufacturers, regulatory bodies and the D.O.T. that it be adhered to.

FYI, as a final note not to be taken lightly, deviating from the published recommendations, specifications, and/or industry standards may have an impact on the validity of your vehicles insurance in the event you are involved in an accident! __________________
roger@tirerack.com (roger@tirerack.com)
Sales Representative
Moderator www.focaljet.com (http://www.focaljet.com/) FYI, as a final note not to be taken lightly, deviating from the published recommendations, specifications, and/or industry standards may have an impact on the validity of your vehicles insurance in the event you are involved in an accident!


Origin of concept -

From a drifting perspective it is call hipari. There are a couple of reason why it is done. One being that it gives you a VERY stiff sidewall, so in effect you can have an inexpensive low profile tire perform more like a very expensive low profile tire.

(http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=541138#)The other reason being is that when go go through tires frequently, you just sometimes got to run with what you got, at sometimes this means not having the "optimal" size, hence the concept of hipari (meaning stretched tire).


Origin of species -

Darwinism works, if you let it.

[S.F.W.]

I think Hella Flush + stretched tires can be done safely. Like anything related to modified cars, one needs to be reasonable. Personally, I am running 225/40/18 tires, on a 18*8.5 rims. However, I also have a camber kit installed to keep my tires from prematurely wearing out, and to ensure my car is still close to original spec for alignment. Do I have to be more careful around curbs? Yes. But I also have to watch out for parking ramps, and speed bumps because I am lowered. A sacrifice I am ok with making. Would I be comfortable with an extreme stretch and camber like some of these cars? Not likely as a daily driver in Toronto. But if I lived somewhere that had roads in very good condition? Maybe. If I also had a backup/beater car in case something happened to the primary? Sure, I would run the look.
Do I expect everyone to love it? No, but different people have different tastes.
Much like running a CAI, there is a risk associated of hydro locking your engine. But you can take precautions to avoid that situation from occurring, and still run your CAI.

[Dave_The_BMXER]

+Infinity!


Btw...I hope somebody ripped that Z06 badge off the car (it's so 'uglified' that I'm not even 100% sure what car it started off as) in the top photo. What a disgrace to the Z06 heritage...

It has an LS6, under the hood hence the badge. You can read more about it here as I featured it yesterday (http://www.stanceiseverything.com/2010/11/sema-show-stoppers-twin-odyvias/), or just look here:

http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/usdm_3.jpg

I feel like the stretch tire debate is akin to the 'fake' wheel debate in that I'm sorta tired of it lol.

I will say the following:
-I know people who drive very hard on the track with stretched rubber (see: Pat Cyr)
-If you are going to stretch be diligent about tire pressure or you risk a bunch of problems which have been previously mentioned
-The look is entirely opinion based

More fuel to the fire:
http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/infiniti_green.jpg

Also no worries on using the photos I took them to be enjoyed/used/whatever.

Oh and that Orange car is actually an RX-3... neat huh?

[taz4432]

I figured it had an LSx engine under the hood, I still think it's blasphemous to put a Z06 badge on it, though. I will definitely stop by your blog and read up on it - I always love reading about (what looks to be) well done swaps!

[mazdilla]

Nice pics, Dave! I kinda figured that car had an LS6 in it, perhaps a ZO6 badge is somewhat inappropriate, but hey... WTF, it's his to do what he wants with it!!

My opinion, like some other posters here, that there is an extreme to what someone can do and when one should hold back a little. But, hey, it's SEMA, and everyone goes gonads to the wall there! That 'illest' is so extreme, it actually looks like the tire bead is not even near the wheel rim.

Repeat after me:

Eye
Yam
Wee
Ta
Did
So
Va
Wee
Va
Wee
Wee
Ta
Did

:loco

I am sure there are some nice examples of tastefully stretched tire/wheel combos.

Again, great pics Dave, you lucky dog! Which honey did you bring back?

[condor888000]

Positive effects of tyre stretching:
Nil.

Not quite, streching a tire can give you an improvement in times. For example, with Miata's a 225/45R15 on a 15x9 in proven faster around a track than the same tire on a 15x8. The strech reduces sidewall flex, giving sharper steering and producing less tire squirm.

It's not ideal, but it's done because the next size up from 225 is 275/35R15, which is tough to fit on the car. GRM also did a test where their long term MX-5 car was faster with 245's on 9" rims than it was with 255's on 9" rims.

[Kappa]

i would do it.. its all about how it sits man lol... remember im going to guess that almost all the guys out there with this much money into coils and tires and wheels dont drive there cars everyday some might.. but i would think that they are more show car than they are DD some of the guys have sick beaters that make my car looks bad lol.. i love the look if done right.. i dont like a lot of both but it can look sick! i will be going for this look next summer not this extreme but close. so yeah thanks to dave for giving me this sickness / bug lol

[towelsnap]

Well Picton man lol lot's of pics and what is "safe" to rock on a mazda 3 can be found at


http://www.mazda3forums.com/index.php?topic=141255.0


A 97 page read of trash talking and some good info and tips of what you can pull off with poke and is hella flush to the illest


My favs :
(i'll post more later)

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a461/KrnMailMan/June%20Shots/004_1.jpg
http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww176/zafira2310/IMG_7235.jpg

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c18/crazian05/IMG_0319.jpg

last one :P


205/45 Hankook Ventus V12 EVO
17x9 ET 45 Enkei RPF1 (35/27 effective offset)
10F/18R spacers.


http://s3.images.drive2.ru/car.journal.photos/x2/4400/000/000/0c9/32c/88cd4834100f8548-large.jpg

[mazdilla]

^ Something about yellow. Nice car!

[mazdilla]

i would do it.. its all about how it sits man lol... remember im going to guess that almost all the guys out there with this much money into coils and tires and wheels dont drive there cars everyday some might.. but i would think that they are more show car than they are DD some of the guys have sick beaters that make my car looks bad lol.. i love the look if done right.. i dont like a lot of both but it can look sick! i will be going for this look next summer not this extreme but close. so yeah thanks to dave for giving me this sickness / bug lol

... and see if you can find some red tires! :headbang

[Kappa]

oh its been done

http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/08/IMG_1886.JPG

[Dave_The_BMXER]

Taz this fitment is for you! Lots of tire

http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/s20001.jpg
http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/s2004.jpg
http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/s20001.jpg

or rub till it fits

http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/nissan_silvia_3.jpg

[Thrizzl3]

^holy cow! talk about rubbage

[taz4432]

Taz this fitment is for you! Lots of tire

http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/s20001.jpg
http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/s2004.jpg
http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/s20001.jpg

Haha, that's pretty close to Winning Blue right there! And, that IS a lot of rubber, damn! For me it doesn't necessarily need a ton of rubber, as long as it's not rubber-banded and not stretched.

Btw, what setup is that guy running? That looks like some decent camber in the back.

[Kappa]

Phil no matter how much you like that car it's never ok to rub one out to it...

[mazdilla]

This looks pretty darn aggressive, but it must be murder on the drive train. I like it, though.

http://www.stanceiseverything.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/s20001.jpg

[Kevin@nextmod]

Oooo its Cheng's car. That guy has his personal way of doing things. He doesn't do it because of the trend. He mods his car that way because thats what he likes and wants to do. He also already have the ASM wide fender flares on the car.

[mazdilla]

Oooo its Cheng's car. That guy has his personal way of doing things. He doesn't do it because of the trend. He mods his car that way because thats what he likes and wants to do. He also already have the ASM wide fender flares on the car.

That is sweet. He must have a pile of cash tied up in that puppy.

This looks good too. I think it was on eBay for sale this past summer as well. (Turbo delete).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/foxmarketing/sets/72157624594998026/

and this one from Thailand:

http://www.thaimazda3.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=26749

BTW What does 'illest' stand for or mean?

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ps edit: 'illest' means sick and is associated with the Fatlace as per this thread:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1767013

[Souls]

Hey all,

I skipped some of the posts, but to answer about the origins.... I've been on the Vortex for the better part of 10yrs as a former VDubber. It was my understanding that this came from Europe (Germany probably) and had something to do with legality of running wider tires. something like "if the tread fits into the wheel well, then it was technically still legal", hence modders were running crazy wide rims, but tucked the tread.

sorry if someone mentioned this above already, I did catch the post about drifting above... that makes sense too

[p-o-g-i]

I would pass. Too many issues involved both mechanically and legally. It looks ok, but I'd still pass............