Poll: Winter Tire Law

[PCLoadLetter]

Do you think Ontario should make winter tires mandatory? Discuss.

[SilentJay]

Absolutely. While we don't get creamed by snow like they do out East, we do still get ice and slush at the very least. The already abundant population of GTA's deficient drivers can only benefit from the added traction, and quite frankly, the mandatory extra $600-$900 in costs will price out people who operate unsafe cars because they choose not to spend money on maintainence. A government tax credit could be used to cushion the blow for families too.

[optiklenz13]

I vote no. Because wimps can just stay at home in times like these..

:gone

:chuckle

[hit26k]

Absolutely! If its proven to help and decrease the amount of accidents that occur during the winter months than the government should make it mandatory. Now, there are other factors such driving habits and skill that go along with this but they're tied in together.

[kittyangel]

no...because I know some people who never drive their cars during winter time. i feel it's unfair for those poor people who don't drive at their summer car at all...lol

[bman13]

Fewer accidents supposedly mean lower medical claims which means SUPPOSEDLY a ripple effect that eventually leads to lower car insurance. Obviously that's a farce but yeah the logic is there. At minimum, all insurance companies should offer lower car insurance (mine does if u have winter tires plus anti-theft) and it should be widely advertised.

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

yes.

[cwp_sedan]

yes.

+1

[cereal83]

Not at all. People should be given the right to choose if they want winter tires or not. Seems like the people who want the law passed want the government to tell us exactly how to live our day to day life.

[mazdilla]

It's already law in Quebec.

... I'm undecided.

I think that it would/should depend on the vehicle. An AWD or 4WD can operate just fine on M&S tires.

(... while some drivers couldn't operate a vehicle properly no matter what they have shoed their car with.)

[Default User]

50/50 on this

YES - snow tires improves safety for EVERYONE on the road. Those who do not believe in using winter tires are losers.

NO - because once it is mandatory, the government and or Tire manufacturers and or retailers will jack the tire rates through the roof or increase labour costs or find a tax....

Either pay $60-80 twice a year to switch over tires. or purchase a winter tire/rim combo and DIY. Even then - you need a second set of TPMS ($300) to be programmed at a stealership for another $100. Ask anyone w/ TPM sensors how much fun it is (those that care care about the warning light).

PLUS - you'll always have the ******* that doesnt switch back to all-seasons come spring, and ride snows all year long. We all know how fast snow tires wear out during warmer temps, making them utterly useless come next winter. But is within the law for owning winter tires.

or doesnt realize that the compound is done after the 4 year life expectancy.

Point being - Doesn't matter if there is a law in place - there's always some loser that thinks their right and the rest of us is wrong. Look at people that refuse to use a hands free set or text while driving. 50,000 tickets handed out in the first year alone.

[mongol]

no...because I know some people who never drive their cars during winter time. i feel it's unfair for those poor people who don't drive at their summer car at all...lol

I think it would only be mandatory if you were on the road?

Anyway I agree with it.

[Dave_The_BMXER]

Not at all. People should be given the right to choose if they want winter tires or not. Seems like the people who want the law passed want the government to tell us exactly how to live our day to day life.

Or I'd rather someone not drive into me?

As long as people don't hit me or anyone I care about I don't care what they drive on. I do wish insurance would give me credit for having winters.

[cereal83]

Or I'd rather someone not drive into me?

As long as people don't hit me or anyone I care about I don't care what they drive on. I do wish insurance would give me credit for having winters.

Yes because if a person has winter tires, they are magically not gonna drive into other people.

Thank god the government isn't even contemplating this law for Ontario

[ovie8]

Not at all. People should be given the right to choose if they want winter tires or not. Seems like the people who want the law passed want the government to tell us exactly how to live our day to day life.

so you should be protesting about seatbelts, speed limits etc...how dare the government require us to wear seatbelts and tell us how fast we can drive

[XTOTHEL]

I've been all all season stock tires and things have been fine. Accident or not depends on the driver. If you know it snowed a foot last night, don't drive like there's no snow on the road.

[prime]

so you should be protesting about seatbelts, speed limits etc...how dare the government require us to wear seatbelts and tell us how fast we can drive

curse those damn stop lights and who decided to put lines on the roads...

/sarcasm


Although I do agree that each person is different but it has proven to be safer to drive with winter tires under these conditions. It only takes one accident for a life to be turned upside down. I'd rather be on the safer side, not risking my life and at the same time being considerate of others'.

[Noisy Crow]

I vote no simply because I think it would end up being another law that while good in intent doesn't really address the root problem.

People will just all year 'round on winter tires and end up having lousy traction all year round as winter tires perform worse in rain than all seasons, and the excess wear will mean they won't be very good in snow either.

That said: Everyone SHOULD use winter tires in the winter.... the difference in stopping and steering is very noticable

[Default User]

Not at all. People should be given the right to choose if they want winter tires or not. Seems like the people who want the law passed want the government to tell us exactly how to live our day to day life.


so you should be protesting about seatbelts, speed limits etc...how dare the government require us to wear seatbelts and tell us how fast we can drive

I think he means more along the lines of allowing the government to dictate what we can and cannot do.

There are a lot of stupid (and outdated) laws out there that simply aren't necessary, yet are enforced as a cash grab from the public. the more government regulations enforced = the more money they can collect from ppl. And anyone will rationalize with these laws until they actually get fined.

ie. Idling law, Cell phone law, Plastic bag fees, HTA..... c'mon really?

$120 fine because I used my cell to call my boss to say I'll be coming in late because I forgot to get my Re-usable bag for when I do get groceries after work. And I'm holding up traffic because I need to come to a complete dead stop at every stop sign, but not to stop for too long as it may be considered that Im letting the car idle. There goes my whole days pay FML

/end rant

*sorry - I detes our government

[poke65]

If it became law your taxes would have to go up to pay for emergency vehicles to be equipped with winters. Also your TTC fairs would go up to equip them too. Cab fairs would raise. If you make these vehicles exempt then why make a law.

[Default User]

If it became law your taxes would have to go up to pay for emergency vehicles to be equipped with winters. Also your TTC fairs would go up to equip them too. Cab fairs would raise. If you make these vehicles exempt then why make a law.

buses are exempt from the seatbelt law. pretty sure emissions also. Emergency vehicles are exempt from the idling law

[Fuyuzora]

I am totally in favour of mandatory winter tires.


Not at all. People should be given the right to choose if they want winter tires or not. Seems like the people who want the law passed want the government to tell us exactly how to live our day to day life.

Libertarianism is only acceptable when the individual is the only one at risk. When there is a quantifiable risk of harm to others, the needs of society trump individual liberties to act like a fool.

[Cosmo77]

I say yes to snow tires and thats a big YES

I also vote for bi-seasonal safties (after the first 5 production years) for all vehicles on the road. Not just when transferring ownership.

[zzz3]

No because the amount of snow fall is not enough in toronto, not to mention that the roads get plowed and salted in a reasonably amount of time usually. However it differs in other parts of Ontario were they get much more snow and mandatory snow tires would make sense. Thats why it shouldnt be a law, rather a tax credit or some sort of incentive (government rebate). That would strike a good balance imo...

[Cosmo77]

I was un-aware that Toronto was all of Ontario? I don't think it should be a tax credit....it should be up to the owner of the car. Common sense says 50 series tires that are hard as rocks are not ment for snow or tempatures below freezing.

[mongol]

I vote no simply because I think it would end up being another law that while good in intent doesn't really address the root problem.

People will just all year 'round on winter tires and end up having lousy traction all year round as winter tires perform worse in rain than all seasons, and the excess wear will mean they won't be very good in snow either.

That said: Everyone SHOULD use winter tires in the winter.... the difference in stopping and steering is very noticable

The excess wear will mean additional cost, as a deterrent. Would not drive on winter tires in summer.

[kittyangel]

Or I'd rather someone not drive into me?

As long as people don't hit me or anyone I care about I don't care what they drive on. I do wish insurance would give me credit for having winters.

I think you made a good point though. If insurance company starts to offer people discount because of having winter tires for winter, I think it's actually more effective than having the government setting the winter tire law for everyone. At least...it gives people an option on rather or not winter tires should be installed or not.

[cereal83]

I think you made a good point though. If insurance company starts to offer people discount because of having winter tires for winter

They already do that.

[kittyangel]

really? I go with meloche monnex, and they never asked if I have winter tires on.. :S

[cereal83]

I think alot do but not all. I dunno what the saving is either. Probably $20 a year

[ThatGuy19]

No because the amount of snow fall is not enough in toronto, not to mention that the roads get plowed and salted in a reasonably amount of time usually.
+1
I can see how daily drivers would want this to be made law because they spend so much time on the road, but with the roads plowed+salted within a reasonable amount of time casual drivers don't need winter tires (it can be recommended to have them, but shouldn't be mandatory)

[laksman91]

I take it some of you guys really like paying taxes ...especially with some of the suggestions I've read here.

[zzz3]

I was un-aware that Toronto was all of Ontario? I don't think it should be a tax credit....it should be up to the owner of the car. Common sense says 50 series tires that are hard as rocks are not ment for snow or tempatures below freezing.

i take it you are referring to my post. I am "un-aware" of what part of my post referred to Toronto as all of Ontario. I started off my opinion with Toronto because thats were i live/commute (GTA) and proceeded to contrast it to the rest of Ontario and the vast difference in snow fall across the province. In many areas it would make sense to legislate mandatory snow tires, while in other areas like toronto (i.e. where there is not much snow on the ground and roads are plowed as well as salted in a reasonable amount of time) it wouldnt make sense or be feasible.

Instead of it being the law, a good balance would be some form of tax credit or incentive (e.g rebates). And no this would not lead to an increase in taxes...

[Dave_The_BMXER]

Yes because if a person has winter tires, they are magically not gonna drive into other people.


Some drivers need all the help they need. I guess I should mention I've been rear ended in the winter in a previous vehicle. Like I said as long as people are not hitting me I am ok with whatever.

[kramr]

I don't think it should be mandatory at all. I have never had snow tires on any car I have owned and I have never been in a situation where I needed them. A lot of people have to learn to drive according to road conditions. I know they are awesome in getting a bite in the snow and traction and all and like Default User has said, they improve the safety of everone on the road. I was going to get a set of steels and snows for the 1st winter I had my M3, not knowing how it handles in the snow but work issues and lack of funds for a month (on strike) prevented me from getting them. This is my 2nd winter with my 2010 M3 and no issues riding on the all season I have on. So, basically I say that YES, snow tires are great and the benefits of them are great too but I don't believe it shold be a law. There is a good chance I'll be getting snows for next year for the benefits of snow tires. Most of the time, in my opinion, it is not the tires that are the problem it is the person operating the vehicle. My two cents!!

[kramr]

If it became law your taxes would have to go up to pay for emergency vehicles to be equipped with winters. Also your TTC fairs would go up to equip them too. Cab fairs would raise. If you make these vehicles exempt then why make a law.

TTC fares would not increase, they ride on the same style of tires all year. They handle just fine on them too, the engine is sitting just behind the rear drive axle and there are 4 tires on that axle. Emerg service vehicles, those not the size and weight of a fire truck or a bus for that matter, I'm sure already ride on snows. Cabs, well it wouldn't make sense for the owner of the cab not to have snow tires (I'm sure they are out there though without snow tires) as it is their bread and butter along with the number of KM's put on cabs every year, it would make sense, to me anyways!!

[FoXy]

hmm... this is an interesting thread.

I voted yes because I think that ppl should use them in the winter but not so much that the govt should make it a law. Like someone else mentioned... some ppl WOULD leave them on all year long until they are bald... and think about it this way... it is not so much that ppl need winter tires as much as they just need tires with effing TREAD on them... ppl drive around with bald tires all the time regardless of whether they are snow tires or not. Outside of the GTA ppl generally seem to be doing just fine whether they choose to get them or not. It's the CHEAP arseholes in toronto who can barely afford what they have who don't bother getting them becuase they figure that they are smarter than everyone else and that it "won't happen to them".

When it snows a lot... you are better off just leaving lots of room, driving cautiously and being aware of your surroundings so that you have an escape method to avoid being rear ended (if you can). AND IF (God forbid) you do get into an accident due to your own fault or get hit by someone else... well thats what insurance and hospitals are for. Sometimes things are unavoidable because the only person on the road you can control out there is YOURSELFFFF.

[SpeedBaby]

as much as i am in favor of the idea that everyone would be driving on season-appropriate tires through out the year, i do tend to agree that we have had plenty of examples where the government has managed to take a good initiative and turn it into a money grab through introduction of laws enforcing them.

maybe a better solution would be to use the approach similar to the one used to promote carpooling: introduction of dedicated lanes for people using snow tires. that way the ones that chose to use 'no-season' tires are welcome to drive among those that have made the same choice in their own personal lane, which ideally would be located right next to the dedicated 'corola lane' (i am totally dreaming now, i know LOL)

i do realize how difficult it would be to enforce a regulation like this one, but would be nice indeed.

[JStroke]

No. I don't like the gov't forcing us to do anything. I realize some people drive unprepared in the winter, but you can't legislate common sense.

Besides, in many places in Southern Ontario, there are only 10% or less of days every year where winters are really "necessary". Northern Ontario may be different but they shouldn't force it on everyone. Winters are a great idea but not absolutely necessary imo.

I only have winters on the speed3 because it came with summers, and I don't want my good rims in the salt. I have never used winters in the past.

btw this winter is uncommonly cold and snowy as well. Most winters are not as bad as this one anymore.

[Pokey]

If they tell you what tires to use, what's next? You can only shop at Sobeys on Tuesdays per the new law?

Besides, if you live in an apartment where are you going to keep the tires? Just legislating and taxing the middle class out of existence....

The tire mfg's and sellers would love it. I would too if I sold widgets and the government came along and said that EVERYONE MUST buy a widget..... Kind of like the insurance companies - gov't says you MUST have insurance but the gov't does NOT run the insurance so we must pay whatever is asked by the private companies that supply the product that the gov't said we must have.

Widget anyone?

[Rob23]

YES!! get snow tires! all seasons are useless.

[zzz3]

If it became law your taxes would have to go up to pay for emergency vehicles to be equipped with winters. Also your TTC fairs would go up to equip them too. Cab fairs would raise. If you make these vehicles exempt then why make a law.


TTC fares would not increase, they ride on the same style of tires all year. They handle just fine on them too, the engine is sitting just behind the rear drive axle and there are 4 tires on that axle. Emerg service vehicles, those not the size and weight of a fire truck or a bus for that matter, I'm sure already ride on snows. Cabs, well it wouldn't make sense for the owner of the cab not to have snow tires (I'm sure they are out there though without snow tires) as it is their bread and butter along with the number of KM's put on cabs every year, it would make sense, to me anyways!!

just to add some clarification, the police use good year ultra grip snow tires for winter already. I am not sure what ambulances use though. Regardless, emergency vehicles and snow tires wouldnt be a factor in the "should winter tires be law" discussion.

[Iceman_F1]

Tricky subject. I'd say no, don't force the general public, but maybe force insurance companies to give a credit/discount for those who have them. I know SOME do, but not all. This way, for those who do it, they see a small break in their costs while adding a nice incentive for those who don't have them.

[whiteomega]

Mandating winter tires is a good move, but a better one would be to encourage people to invest in them instead of forcing them to do so. I think Iceman's suggestion makes the most sense.

I'm with Belair and I get a decent insurance discount for having winter tires on from November to March (I forget what it is now though but I think it was 5%)

[aris]

I voted NO

I do have snow tires but only cause I got a killer deal on them and cause I got aftermarket rims and tires for summer.

I've never had any problems driving with all season for 12 years I been driving

[aZuMi]

I voted NO

I do have snow tires but only cause I got a killer deal on them and cause I got aftermarket rims and tires for summer.

I've never had any problems driving with all season for the many years I've been driving

+1

[sp3GT]

50 to 16 but I voted no.

I don't think people should be forced to get winter tires that's just not right. My family's always had a suv and a compact, to me I find that the compacts do perform a lot better with snow tires on.

But driving the suv in conditions like yesterday on all seasons it felt just the same.

It all really just comes down to how careful you are, making it mandatory could induce a negative effect as well.

People will start thinking oh I have snow tires on now, I can drive more careless now.

[laksman91]

How about the lazy people that will use the snow tires in the summer. That can be pretty unsafe too

[rukus]

making winter tires mandatory would be a not so great idea.

prohibiting 'summer' tires would be a better idea.

[Jeff-TheBiz]

my 2 cents..

Solution 1 - Don't make it mandatory, but if you don't buy winter tires, you are not allowed to wear your seat belt from November to March :)

Solution 2 - Make it mandatory, but have insurance drop by at least $200 a yr to off set installation etc.. and also, if you are involved in an accident and you do not have them.. your insurance denies the claim.

[erratic]

I voted yes, but I think they should take the time to educate people on how to properly drive when the weather conditions are bad first. If you drive a car with all-season tires and it is having trouble gripping in the snow / slush, then drive in the right (slow) lane and allow others who are confident in what their vehicle can do get through. Its especially frustrating in the morning when two cars are crawling along on a 2 lane road next to each other in the mornings because they do not have snow tires and cannot grip the road.

[Zuluwun]

50 to 16 but I voted no.

I don't think people should be forced to get winter tires that's just not right. My family's always had a suv and a compact, to me I find that the compacts do perform a lot better with snow tires on.

But driving the suv in conditions like yesterday on all seasons it felt just the same.

It all really just comes down to how careful you are, making it mandatory could induce a negative effect as well.

People will start thinking oh I have snow tires on now, I can drive more careless now.


That's a good point.

[Punkrockjohn]

I'm shocked so many people think it should be mandatory, i say no I'm completely fine with my all seasons

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

my 2 cents..

Solution 1 - Don't make it mandatory, but if you don't buy winter tires, you are not allowed to wear your seat belt from November to March :)

Solution 2 - Make it mandatory, but have insurance drop by at least $200 a yr to off set installation etc.. and also, if you are involved in an accident and you do not have them.. your insurance denies the claim.


Jeff FTW! :winner












...even if he does drive a sedan and we all know how gay those really are.

[zakman]

i no its different down south but man it would make a difference up north for sure. im all for it.

[kittyangel]

I have an idea...what about ....

only let the cars with snow tires drive on the public road when there are snow on the ground? At least...it filters out the problems where people without snow tires will never drive during snowy days...

[Jeff-TheBiz]

Question to those who don't think they need winter tires in the winter...

Do you wear summer shoes in the winter? Sandals? Then why should your car?

[Jeff-TheBiz]

...even if he does drive a sedan and we all know how gay those really are.

:banhim

[m_bisson]

I say no. This is the first year I've had winter tires and it's not that big of an improvement over all seasons. I have always been cautious in the snow and these tires haven't really made a difference to me. I got a 5% discount on my yearly insurance premiums which basically covers the cost of the tires, but there really isn't any need to make it a law. There are plenty of people that would buy the $50 tires, which are garbage, just to meet the requirements of the law....

Look at that new cellphone law. More accidents are happening now because people hide their phones down low rather than hold them up high. If we give everyone snow tires, do you honestly expect people to drive cautiously or is it more likely they will behave more aggressively due to higher confidence than normal..?

[pnoy_vokal]

yes

[Cosmo77]

I see no one said anything about me sudgesting that bi-annual safties were also a good idea (After the first 5 production years)

Back to tires...I just don't understand why people DON'T want the proper equipment on there cars? Its like customers that say their Miata's "are great in the snow!" I tend to wonder if they have driven anything else?

[alhope34]

Of course it should be law, we live in Canada. Every car has 4 wheels to brake and 4 wheels for stability. 4wd/awd doesn't mean anything in the winter.

[ThatGuy19]

Question to those who don't think they need winter tires in the winter...

Do you wear summer shoes in the winter? Sandals? Then why should your car?

I wear the same running shoes all year long...

[Iceman_F1]

I wear the same running shoes all year long...

So then you have all-seasons. I think the point you commented was would you wear your sandals (summer shoes) in the winter? Or would you wear your winter shoes (boots usually) in the summer?

[zzz3]

That analogy of sandals and boots in comparison to the weather isnt the best example. It is always cold in the winter and vice versa in the summer. But there isnt always snow or ice on the ground in Ontario especially in the GTA. That is the biggest advantage of winter tires (more on this below).

However you can also make the argument that even if there isnt snow or ice on the ground, there are still advantages to having winter tires (boots vs. sandals) in cold weather alone because of the softer compound. But it would be quite hard to convince people in the GTA because many cannot conceive how winter tires will help them when there is hardly any snow on the ground. And once you factor in cost it becomes a losing proposition (including the performance benefits of winter vs. all season in just cold weather). This seems absurd to us here on tm3 but you have to keep in mind we are "enthusiasts" (have a higher rate of winter tire usage because we understand the benefits and are willing to make investments in our cars i.e. mods) vs. average joe (driving a to b appliance).

Ontario is too big of a province with uneven population distribution to make winter tires mandatory. Just increase the incentive for winter tires be it from tax credit, rebates or an increased winter tire insurance discount (from what it is now).

[alhope34]

What most people don't realize is that now you'll have two complete sets of tires you'll be putting kms on. Sure, it's more expensive up front but it evens out when you only have to buy tires half as often. My dad has had the same set of all seasons for the summer and winters for the winter on his Yaris for 4 years now. Both sets still have easily another 3 seasons on them.

[Cosmo77]

Ontario is too big of a province with uneven population distribution to make winter tires mandatory. Just increase the incentive for winter tires be it from tax credit, rebates or an increased winter tire insurance discount (from what it is now).

Umm and how big is Quebec?

I also still do not see a reason for a tax credit?

[zzz3]

Umm and how big is Quebec?

I also still do not see a reason for a tax credit?

To further clarify (since quebec is just as big), what i should have added (didnt see a need to do so since i mentioned the following in post#33 (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?50678-Poll-Winter-Tire-Law&p=715171&viewfull=1#post715171)) is that snowfall for quebec (montreal, quebec city and the provincial average) is much higher than Ontario. There are exceptions in Ontario like London and Ottawa, but the disparity is too great in Ontario (for snowfall) to force other people to adopt snow tires (i.e. those in the GTA where snowfall is small relatively speaking).

As for the tax credit it is just one of many suggestions, others being incentives and rebates to encourage people to adopt snow tires, instead of wrongfully and unnecessarily forcing them to buy snow tires. Its better to be proactive and do something rather than nothing imo (while balancing freedom and safety), instead of just leaving it up to the owners...

[Pokey]

What most people don't realize is that now you'll have two complete sets of tires you'll be putting kms on. Sure, it's more expensive up front but it evens out when you only have to buy tires half as often. My dad has had the same set of all seasons for the summer and winters for the winter on his Yaris for 4 years now. Both sets still have easily another 3 seasons on them.

Don't tires start to crack etc after about 4 years. I wouldn't want to drive down the 401 on 7 year old tires :(

[alhope34]

Tires are usually good to 8-10 years, a shop can sell you a tire up to 6 years old. After it is 6 years they must remove it from their inventory.

[Pokey]

I've had Michelins show cracks inbetween the treads after 3 seasons. Can't imagine what they would look like after 7.

[Rob23]

this is the 7th season my snow tires have been through, and the tread/compound is still in really good shape. still i plan on replacing them for next season. they are Pirelli winters.

[alhope34]

I've had Michelins show cracks inbetween the treads after 3 seasons. Can't imagine what they would look like after 7.


How old were they when you bought them? Might wanna find the date stamp on the side. Also, just because it's name brand doesn't mean it's the best. Michelin, BFG, Good Year all tend to over price their tires. Sometimes by quite a bit.

[fini]

Tires are usually good to 8-10 years, a shop can sell you a tire up to 6 years old. After it is 6 years they must remove it from their inventory.

this reminds me of the canadian tire near my house. i think i posted this in another thread as well. there were tires with manufacture dates from like 1990 or something selling on the clearance rack for like 20% off retail.

[alhope34]

this reminds me of the canadian tire near my house. i think i posted this in another thread as well. there were tires with manufacture dates from like 1990 or something selling on the clearance rack for like 20% off retail.


That would be illegal for them to do, you should have told the manager to remove them and get rid of them. By Ontario law no one can sell tires more than 6 years old, new or used.

[fini]

That would be illegal for them to do, you should have told the manager to remove them and get rid of them. By Ontario law no one can sell tires more than 6 years old, new or used.

i actually went to the service desk and told them that it's unsafe, and probably illegal. the employee said they would speak with the manager. so i left it at that and haven't gone back to that canadian tire since so i dunno if they are still there or not.

was seriously thinking about snapping pictures and sending it into ctv or something if they told me to F-off though

[alhope34]

i actually went to the service desk and told them that it's unsafe, and probably illegal. the employee said they would speak with the manager. so i left it at that and haven't gone back to that canadian tire since so i dunno if they are still there or not.

was seriously thinking about snapping pictures and sending it into ctv or something if they told me to F-off though


It's good that you did that. Not many people would care. I'd be pissed if I bought a "new" tire to find out it is 20 years old. ever felt the tires they have on the walls for display? They feel like plastic water bottles.

[billd80]

No!!, just learn how to drive in the snow and slow down!!, I've had no probs with my all seasons this year and we have got more snow than we have in a while. On a side note I've noticed the majority of accidents I've drivin by involved vehicles equipped with snow tires. And no reason to state facts that were "produced" by the people waiting to make $ from selling them!! I'd proboubly say they should be law if i went out and spent $700 on some too!! just another load of b.s. just like nitrogen filled tires that they claim are "safer" LoL.

[PearlM3]

No!!, just learn how to drive in the snow and slow down!!, I've had no probs with my all seasons this year and we have got more snow than we have in a while. On a side note I've noticed the majority of accidents I've drivin by involved vehicles equipped with snow tires. And no reason to state facts that were "produced" by the people waiting to make $ from selling them!! I'd proboubly say they should be law if i went out and spent $700 on some too!! just another load of b.s. just like nitrogen filled tires that they claim are "safer" LoL.

This is a very uneducated statement, as well, if your driving by an accident how can you tell they have/don't have snow tires.?

[gotak]

No!!, just learn how to drive in the snow and slow down!!, I've had no probs with my all seasons this year and we have got more snow than we have in a while. On a side note I've noticed the majority of accidents I've drivin by involved vehicles equipped with snow tires. And no reason to state facts that were "produced" by the people waiting to make $ from selling them!! I'd proboubly say they should be law if i went out and spent $700 on some too!! just another load of b.s. just like nitrogen filled tires that they claim are "safer" LoL.

face->palm.

By your reasoning people should also do without ABS an learn how to threshold brake. And yeah seat belts shouldn't be needed....

Have you ever driven on winter tires in the snow or on ice?

[billd80]

1:yes, the work vehicle I drive is equipped with snow tires and does not perform any better than my 3 with all seasons.
2: it''s pretty easy to tell if a vehicle has snow tire on, especially when lots of people run steelies with them
3: I'm actually well educated on winter tires (show me some statistics that are not from a manufac. or "tire-rack")(or from the government covering their as*!)
4: by that thinking your vehicle should also "by law" be equipped with AWD, higher ground clearance, more airbags, self inflating tires, onstar, etc. etc.
not saying they don't "help" just not near as much as people make them out to. driving slower is the best way to avoid winter accidents.

[gotak]

1:yes, the work vehicle I drive is equipped with snow tires and does not perform any better than my 3 with all seasons.
2: it''s pretty easy to tell if a vehicle has snow tire on, especially when lots of people run steelies with them
3: I'm actually well educated on winter tires (show me some statistics that are not from a manufac. or "tire-rack")(or from the government covering their as*!)
4: by that thinking your vehicle should also "by law" be equipped with AWD, higher ground clearance, more airbags, self inflating tires, onstar, etc. etc.
not saying they don't "help" just not near as much as people make them out to. driving slower is the best way to avoid winter accidents.

Easily done: http://www.insideline.com/features/tire-test-all-season-vs-snow-vs-summer.html

Or you can go to consumer report. Or find and read using google translation any of the Scandinavian motor mag reviews.

I think a lot of people equate winter tires with the idea that they should be something out of Steve Job's butt. AKA magical. As you can see from the test it was 28 feet difference (156 feet stop on snow from 60 mph on a car that normally takes about 120 feet). So no winters will not make your car perform like it was dry summer pavement. But it's still going to stop you sooner than if you were on all season. Which means either you avoid a crash or if you do you'll be crashing at a slower speed.

It also just occurred to me your work vehicle might not have the best winter tires either. There are great differences with some being amazing in snow but not so good on ice. And others that are great on ice but maybe not so good in snow. Plus it could be your work vehicle (it is a RWD pick up?) might just not be a good snow car. We have a 05 camry that we have driven with all seasons and with winters. So working from that experience I can tell you that on ice there's no comparison. It's the difference between ABS going off like mad while you pray you can stop vs actually stopping when you need to (from an icy church parking lot, so we are talking 20 kph max).

AWD or 4X4 are actually dangerous for winter driving in the hands of the vast majority of people out there. They step on the gas and the 4x4 helps them get moving so they think they have a lot of grip. When stopping however they then suddenly realize how with majority of braking done on the front they can't stop. You see yobos in AWD or 4x4 cars blasting past people all the time. It's not because they cars has more stopping grip. It's just cause they feel like they do due to AWD/4x4.

[alhope34]

No!!, just learn how to drive in the snow and slow down!!, I've had no probs with my all seasons this year and we have got more snow than we have in a while. On a side note I've noticed the majority of accidents I've drivin by involved vehicles equipped with snow tires. And no reason to state facts that were "produced" by the people waiting to make $ from selling them!! I'd proboubly say they should be law if i went out and spent $700 on some too!! just another load of b.s. just like nitrogen filled tires that they claim are "safer" LoL.

LMAO!! I can't believe some people think like this.

When I'm in Quebec during a snow storm I'm driving as fast as I feel safe yet everyone is driving circles around me (snows are law). I come back to Ontario and when snow is falling, even when it is not accumulating on the roads, people go half the limit for no reason. Driving slow doesn't mean you know how to drive properly in the snow or not. I see many many less accidents in the snow in Quebec than I do in Ontario even though they all drive much faster there.

[STeeLy]

Some people have the mindset that having Winter tires on the car during the winter means they can handle the car exactly the same as they could in the summer while on snow and ice.

While I do believe that winter tires do make a difference, the more important thing is more education on winter driving.

I know that most places offer courses on winter driving, but I think at least the basics of now to drive in the winter should be part of the main driving course.

Long shot and unlikely to happen, but I don't think it's that bad of an idea.

[billd80]

actually driving slower/keeping more distance in front of you is exactly how to stay safe, since the main cause of winter accident are from not stopping in time, pretty simple physics really. However my point was not a 'pissing" competition with overly eager people, simply to follow the poll and asnwer why "not" in the comments section as stated since I voted no!!! So peace out!!

[SpeedBaby]

actually driving slower/keeping more distance in front of you is exactly how to stay safe, since the main cause of winter accident are from not stopping in time, pretty simple physics really. However my point was not a 'pissing" competition with overly eager people, simply to follow the poll and asnwer why "not" in the comments section as stated since I voted no!!! So peace out!!


1:yes, the work vehicle I drive is equipped with snow tires and does not perform any better than my 3 with all seasons.
2: it''s pretty easy to tell if a vehicle has snow tire on, especially when lots of people run steelies with them
3: I'm actually well educated on winter tires (show me some statistics that are not from a manufac. or "tire-rack")(or from the government covering their as*!)
4: by that thinking your vehicle should also "by law" be equipped with AWD, higher ground clearance, more airbags, self inflating tires, onstar, etc. etc.
not saying they don't "help" just not near as much as people make them out to. driving slower is the best way to avoid winter accidents.


No!!, just learn how to drive in the snow and slow down!!, I've had no probs with my all seasons this year and we have got more snow than we have in a while. On a side note I've noticed the majority of accidents I've drivin by involved vehicles equipped with snow tires. And no reason to state facts that were "produced" by the people waiting to make $ from selling them!! I'd proboubly say they should be law if i went out and spent $700 on some too!! just another load of b.s. just like nitrogen filled tires that they claim are "safer" LoL.

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/1/web/3181000-3181999/3181934_349_full.jpg

[fini]

It's good that you did that. Not many people would care. I'd be pissed if I bought a "new" tire to find out it is 20 years old. ever felt the tires they have on the walls for display? They feel like plastic water bottles.

yah, i noticed that too. but as long as they stay as a display, then it should be ok. those things should be marked in someway to say that they are displays and should not be sold though. anyway, we digress off topic of this thread... lol

---------

don't you think it is safer with winter tires than without? it also isn't just about stopping time. it's about control.. what if you had a little bit of an incline to drive up? what if you didn't have enough grip to even get your car moving and spun your tires? even if YOU practice safe driving.. what if you need to make course corrections? why not use a tool that is readily available to help with all of this?

if you think a car handles just as well with all seasons compared to snows.. you need to think again.
that's like saying you can wear street shoes on a soccer field and play better than someone wearing cleats.

http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/2008/01/30/get_a_grip/

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

actually driving slower/keeping more distance in front of you is exactly how to stay safe, since the main cause of winter accident are from not stopping in time, pretty simple physics really. However my point was not a 'pissing" competition with overly eager people, simply to follow the poll and asnwer why "not" in the comments section as stated since I voted no!!! So peace out!!

So by using your own logic that the main cause of winter accidents are from not stopping in time, you should then be recommending winter tires. Simply because it is very much proven that winter tires do in fact decrease stopping distances on snow and ice and even on dry tarmac in sub zero temperatures, when compared to all-season tires with a vehicle travelling at the same speed.

To use your logic again, if you drive slower and keep more distance in front of you to avoid accidents, does it not also make sense again that winter tires will therefore decrease your chances of being involved in a collision caused by an inability to stop in time since again, assuming the same distance and speed, the winter tire will still stop the car faster?

You are right about one thing at least and that is, this is pretty simple physics really. All things being equal, winter tires will outperform all seasons in winter conditions in relation to grip, braking and other handling performance categories.

By all means vote no based on whatever bias you have as you are fully entitled to the opinion, but don't base it on false statements and bad logic.

[laksman91]

You guys need (go to 7:45)


http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xg1rxu_top-gear-usa-mitsubishi-evo-x_auto

[SSmoked]

^^ to bad most evo owners are pussies to do that with there own cars. most of the evos are stored for winter, which is completly stupid as those cars are built for off road rally. hell the car has a snow mod lol.

if your gona drive in the winter use snow tires. i really dont want to be rear ended buy some idiot without winter tires who doesnt care for others safety.