Mazda of Toronto Irresponsible Service Department

[loosecannon]

Here's my rant that I was supposed to post a few days ago about Mazda of Toronto and how IRRESPONSIBLE their service technicians are.

Let's begin with the problem with my car:

My air conditioner wasn't working properly last week when the blazing hot weather came sweeping through GTA. Only hot air was coming through the vents. On June 1st, I went to MoT to ask about my AC and have them diagnose it. I dealt with Sanj and he told me that if my problem is not covered under warranty, I'd have to pay the hour of labour. I agreed and signed. After about an hour, I went back to MoT and they had said that my car had no Freon, however, there was NO LEAK (keep this in mind). (I must also point out that my AC was working properly last summer)

Sanj had said that my system needs an EVAC and a RECHARGE and that'll cost an additional $90 to recharge with Freon.

I declined and went on my way.

I went home, told my dad the news and he was furious. Being the noob that I am, I had no idea that the AC system was a closed system and that Freon cannot be 'consumed', so obviously there is a leak.

My dad and I went back to MoT on June 2nd, and my dad asked Vincent, what exactly was wrong. After about half an hour of discussing and waiting, Vincent invited us into the garage. There, we met the technician that had serviced my car the day before. He told me that since my car was modded, even if the problem with my AC is covered under my warranty, they won't service it.

They blamed that I altered my electrical wiring (referring to my lights), my intake (and that it was giving me a CEL), my HOODLIFTS (WTF). They also had the nerve to blame that someone had tampered with the cap on the AC tube near the back of the engine. They said, "the cap looks like it's aftermarket, it's not supposed to be black. It's supposed to be blue." Funny thing is, the Mazda3 in THEIR OWN SHOWROOM has a black cap on the AC tube.

I was furious and left the dealer.

I hope you still have the "NO LEAK" in your mind, cause the good part is coming up...

Today I went to my own mechanic and he checked my AC system. He plugged in a machine and immediately said, "what the hell, there's nothing in your system." After about an hour of waiting, he invited me into the garage. He told me to stick my ear near the front grille. All I heard was "hissssssss".

Yes, that's right. There was a leak in my system, specifically the condensor. My mechanic immediately told me that the mechanic at Mazda of Toronto was irresponsible. A Freon leak is illegal as it will damage the environment.


Frequently Asked Questions About Ozone Depleting Substances (ODS) in Ontario

Can a vehicle’s air conditioning (AC) system be topped up with refrigerant because the AC is not cold enough?

No. refrigerant must not be added to any vehicle that may be leaking. A test must first be done to find out if there is a leak in the AC system. Once a leak test is performed, the system must be tagged with the results of the test, including:

1. the date of the test,

2. the name of the person who conducted the leak test,

3. the ODP number and expiry date appearing on the person’s ODP card,

4. the results of the test, and

5. if there is a leak in the equipment, a statement that no refrigerant shall be added to the equipment until the leak is repaired.

Furthermore, after January 1, 2002, no person shall refill an air-conditioning unit of a motor vehicle with refrigerants containing chlorofluorocarbons (CFCs).

Is there a standard for the type of leak test that needs to be performed before a system can be tagged as not having a leak?

Leak tests are to be performed in accordance with the practices set out in the Environmental Code of Practice for Elimination of Fluorocarbon Emissions from Refrigeration and Air Conditioning Systems
Source: http://www.ontla.on.ca/library/Repository/mon/7000/10317218.pdf

The sentence where I bolded in the quoted text above was clearly not performed by the technician...

Now how do I go about this? (Recap)
1. MoT said there was no leak in my system, yet all the freon is gone.
2. My mechanic checked and there is indeed a leak.
3. MoT had suggested that they just recharge my system with freon, however, there IS a leak in my system (meaning whatever they put in will eventually leak away = irresponsible)
4. The technician at MoT had not properly checked that there was a leak in my system, in accordance to the Ozone Depleting Substances (ODS) laws in Ontario.

[cwp_sedan]

Wow I am completely baffled by their excuses! There was OBVIOUSLY a leak and they should have known that. They ALSO should have still serviced the car even with your mods. I would approach the Manager/Owner of the dealership and file a complaint and ask to have your money refunded. If they couldn't even diagnose the problem for the time they charged you when it was a simple problem, how can they justify charging you the money.

I would have been FURIOUS!!

[Thrizzl3]

holy smokes..that technician should be sent back to school to learn the HVAC system all over again.

+1 to getting your money refunded.

[-RJ3-]

I feel for you bud... I hope this gets resolved soon...

Can you try and head to another Mazda dealership to have it done under warranty?

[Kwokalobster]

I </3 dealerships!

[Krazy]

I think you should get your money refunded as well.

Shady excuses aside.... his diagnose was INCORRECT.

Then I am guessing you paid the second mechanic for the diagnose/fix/recharge?

So at least the fees paid to MoT should be refunded...

[S.F.W.]

The problems with service at MoT are a direct result of the attitude from the Service Manager. His attitude is if the customer has any mods, they should have no warranty, and that the customer is always wrong until they prove to him otherwise.
Ask me how I know..

[loosecannon]

I would love to go back to MoT to prove them wrong and ask for a refund, but I'm pretty sure Vincent and/or Raymond (the technician who looked after my car) would want to see my car on the hoist, just to "diagnose" again. My car being behind closed doors and out of my sight, I don't feel comfortable... if you know what I mean...

[n00bMeiSter]

Awww man, I have to go to MoT today to have my engine looked at..... I'm not sure I feel soo confident having them look at it anymore...

[cwp_sedan]

I would love to go back to MoT to prove them wrong and ask for a refund, but I'm pretty sure Vincent and/or Raymond (the technician who looked after my car) would want to see my car on the hoist, just to "diagnose" again. My car being behind closed doors and out of my sight, I don't feel comfortable... if you know what I mean...

That's why I said manager/owner

[JaYson]

I'd have to say that MoT is hit and miss.

I remember back when I just got my car they told me that i needed to have a "full brake job - pads and rotors" I knew it wasn't that bad as I still had lots of pad left. and there was only a bit of a lip on the rotors w/ no pitting or darkening or vibrations.

but I asked "would it affect my warranty if I DON'T do the service" to which the rep. told me "well it could affect your warranty if you don't get it done and we've recommended it" so just over $1000.00 later, I had new brakes but I'd also gotten screwed (to some extent), I'll never make that mistake again. I'll give it to them that It was my accept the service, but really I only agreed because I was under the impression that It would affect my Warranty if I didn't do it.

also another time I went in for an oil change, partway through my wait they said they needed to do a Recall Service to spray the interior door panels to prevent rust. so 2-3 hours later i finally get my car back, BUT now the lower part of the doors are covered in the sticky mess that now has grains of sand and dirt embedded into it. I complained to the service desk, and they sent out one of the shop guys to look at it, he then told me that they were supposed to have given my car a through washing to make sure all dust and dirt was gone before the service to prevent this exact problem. he also said that they don't usually give the cars back until several hours AFTER the service, because the spray needs time to dry otherwise it'll collect dust and dirt (like it did). as the foreman wasn't there that day I gave them my number to have him call me, which he didn't, a few weeks later I called, and he told me to bring it by next time for him to see, but there's usually nothing that can be done. regretfully I never bothered to follow up.

I find it hit and miss there...It's not that convenient for me to go to, but when I first joined this forum I was told they do good work, so I've continued to go there.

now that I think of it, I should look into the Lakeshore Mazda as its lless than 10mins away (as opposed to 30mins for MoT)

[Donutz]

I had a similar experience at another dealership; the tech told me that my power steering was whining was because I had aftermarket wiring for my HID's, and that the guy who wired them "must have crossed some wires". And, that it wouldn't be covered under warranty even if there was a problem because of my mods. I thought 'are you fncking kidding me?!'. I've come to realize that, in large part (not all), dealerships on the service side of the business don't so much care. That was the last time I took my car to a dealership.

I have always maintained the opinion that if you aren't willing to void your warranty, don't mod your car. Simple. Why? Exactly for this reason. I wish you the best, and hope you can get a refund, but be prepared for the worst (no more warranty and no refund).

[FoXy]

I go to Ajax Mazda and so far I <3 them cus they give me no problems. 3 years later still. Mods or no mods.

Another shitty service dept from Mazduhhhh

[Noisy Crow]

Awww man, I have to go to MoT today to have my engine looked at..... I'm not sure I feel soo confident having them look at it anymore...

Cancel the appointment and to elsewhere....

[Scottobot]

Can't paint all dealerships with the same brush. QEW Mazda's awesomeness is well documented.

[cwp_sedan]

Can't paint all dealerships with the same brush. QEW Mazda's awesomeness is well documented.

Every dealership, including QEW has good and bad things happen. It all just depends on how the dealership can rectify the problem or learn from their mistake.

[Scottobot]

Every dealership, including QEW has good and bad things happen. It all just depends on how the dealership can rectify the problem or learn from their mistake.

True dat.

[Pereira11]

just so everyone knows, Freon is not used in AC systems for vehicles anymore. The refrigerant used is called R-134A.

The use of Freon is actually illegal, so i hope Mot and your mechanic were not referring to the refrigerant as Freon because it is definately not Freon in your Mazda3

[cwp_sedan]

just so everyone knows, Freon is not used in AC systems for vehicles anymore. The refrigerant used is called R-134A.

The use of Freon is actually illegal, so i hope Mot and your mechanic were not referring to the refrigerant as Freon because it is definately not Freon in your Mazda3

I'm sure the OP mean R-134A but a lot of people just refer to the refrigerant as Freon, even though it isn't even close to being the same. R-12 hasn't been used for years.

[loosecannon]

Update:

I went to MoT and spoke with the Service Manager, Rick Boudreau. I knew it was a waste of time. He was backing up his technician and service consultant (obviously), and used the analogy where if you go to see a doctor, he may not even be able to know what your problem is. He said I can leave my car for a day so they can check the car once again. This is strange cause it doesn't take A DAY to check something like this. Of course, after they check the second time, they'll definitely say that there is a leak, it'll be my fault and they won't be able to warranty it for me and probably charge me [another] hour(s) of labour.

In the end, there was no point in arguing, and I didn't get my refund "because the technician DID spend time on my car". I'm pretty sure, if I spoke to the Owner of the Dealership, I'd get the same response.

Anyway, I'm going to my own mechanic to get it replaced. Since I drive highway a lot, I need to buy something to minimize the chances of this happening again... Hellahorns?

[Thrizzl3]

gayness...so full of shit. hopefully your mechanic charges you far less than what the dealership would have charged you

[JaYson]

i will certainly be looking into a different dealership for my scheduled maintenance from not on

[cwp_sedan]

This is complete bullshit. That's too bad you didn't get your money back, but they will end up worse off in the end. Losing customers at this rate isn't good.

You could have easily went to a mechanic and just had the R-134A topped up and ran it with a leak for a bit but you didn't and actually took it in. MOT ad better step up because lately I have not been impressed with the service side of things. I'm actually quite surprised that Vincent didn't try a little harder when you actually talked to him.

I think it might be time to take my services over to Jimmy.



EDIT: I would file a complaint with Mazda Canada because a tech should be able spot a leak, or at least have the common sense to realize that it would have to be a leak for the refrigerant to just leave the system. The fact that the service managers couldn't step up and at least have a second go at the problem and come to a better conclusion just makes me laugh.

[SonicBoy]

Had a similar situation back with my Dad's van at a Ford Dealership. AC was not so cold and took it in, they sucked all the refrigerant out and determined there was a slow leak. They basically said either repair it here or go away empty because by law they cannot re fill a system that is leaking. Talk about being held hostage. If I took it elsewhere, I'd be charged a full fill.

Doesn't sound like the dealership is willing to go the distance for you. You were right to take your car elsewhere as you're not getting anywhere with this dealership. Sorry to hear.

[MistaChin]

Stopped taking my car to MoT since the beginning of 2010 I believe ever since they tried upselling power steering services knowing there was a recall on my car. Been going to Agincourt and have had great experiences there ever since.

This experience is just ridiculous.

[JaYson]

not trying to hijack. but, any particular reason DOWNTOWN MAZDA isn't an affiliate dealer?

[S.F.W.]

not trying to hijack. but, any particular reason DOWNTOWN MAZDA isn't an affiliate dealer?
because they have not contacted us with interest in becoming one.

[cwp_sedan]

not trying to hijack. but, any particular reason DOWNTOWN MAZDA isn't an affiliate dealer?

haha, I would take my car to MOT before DT Mazda.

[JaYson]

guess I'm stick'in with MoT for now haha

[Kappa]

I'd have to say that MoT is hit and miss.

I remember back when I just got my car they told me that i needed to have a "full brake job - pads and rotors" I knew it wasn't that bad as I still had lots of pad left. and there was only a bit of a lip on the rotors w/ no pitting or darkening or vibrations.

but I asked "would it affect my warranty if I DON'T do the service" to which the rep. told me "well it could affect your warranty if you don't get it done and we've recommended it" so just over $1000.00 later, I had new brakes but I'd also gotten screwed (to some extent), I'll never make that mistake again. I'll give it to them that It was my accept the service, but really I only agreed because I was under the impression that It would affect my Warranty if I didn't do it.

also another time I went in for an oil change, partway through my wait they said they needed to do a Recall Service to spray the interior door panels to prevent rust. so 2-3 hours later i finally get my car back, BUT now the lower part of the doors are covered in the sticky mess that now has grains of sand and dirt embedded into it. I complained to the service desk, and they sent out one of the shop guys to look at it, he then told me that they were supposed to have given my car a through washing to make sure all dust and dirt was gone before the service to prevent this exact problem. he also said that they don't usually give the cars back until several hours AFTER the service, because the spray needs time to dry otherwise it'll collect dust and dirt (like it did). as the foreman wasn't there that day I gave them my number to have him call me, which he didn't, a few weeks later I called, and he told me to bring it by next time for him to see, but there's usually nothing that can be done. regretfully I never bothered to follow up.

I find it hit and miss there...It's not that convenient for me to go to, but when I first joined this forum I was told they do good work, so I've continued to go there.

now that I think of it, I should look into the Lakeshore Mazda as its lless than 10mins away (as opposed to 30mins for MoT)

If a dealer tried to charge me 1000.00 bucks for brakes I would tell them to pound sand...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Tapatalk

[JaYson]

If a dealer tried to charge me 1000.00 bucks for brakes I would tell them to pound sand...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I896 using Tapatalk

yeah really...live and learn i guess...

[Jackal]

Update:

I went to MoT and spoke with the Service Manager, Rick Boudreau. I knew it was a waste of time. He was backing up his technician and service consultant (obviously), and used the analogy where if you go to see a doctor, he may not even be able to know what your problem is. He said I can leave my car for a day so they can check the car once again. This is strange cause it doesn't take A DAY to check something like this. Of course, after they check the second time, they'll definitely say that there is a leak, it'll be my fault and they won't be able to warranty it for me and probably charge me [another] hour(s) of labour.

In the end, there was no point in arguing, and I didn't get my refund "because the technician DID spend time on my car". I'm pretty sure, if I spoke to the Owner of the Dealership, I'd get the same response.

Anyway, I'm going to my own mechanic to get it replaced. Since I drive highway a lot, I need to buy something to minimize the chances of this happening again... Hellahorns?

His analogy doesn't hold water because if you go to a doctor and say you have a pain somewhere, that doctor should check for several possible things and narrow it down. And if that doctor can't find anything, they may refer you to a specialist or get an x-ray. At least try something to find the problem. This technician was told that there was no A/C so the tech should have tried to diagnose the problem and find a possible problem, one of those is a leak. After the tech couldn't find a problem, then the tech should have asked or refer to an expert (or master tech) as a reponsible doctor would have done.
If my doctor didn't try to solve my ailment in this manner then I would not go to that doctor. Same would go for a dealership.
I understand that nobody is perfect but the Service Manager could have handled it better. He defended his workers really well but the customer was obviously unhappy and remained unhappy after the meeting.

[Mr Fatty]

heh, they don't call them stealerships for nothing... what a scam

[Kappa]

yeah really...live and learn i guess...

agreed! next time just ask all of us! hahaha

[seelsy]

My family owns an HVAC company, auto mechanics and gas techs alike know that refrigerant doesn't just escape the system, in hvac there's either a leak or a compressor issue, so the techs simply covering for not inspecting the system. If he noticed there was no refrigerant in the system, automatically his gauges would show this fact and lead him to check for a leak through pressure testing. Brutal to hear the service manager wouldnt even help you out.

[baymoe]

That's a damn shame they handled the situation so poorly. My warranty is just about up and I haven't been pleased with their service lately either. That'll be the end of MoT for service.

[bluemazda3]

sad sad sad... never been there for service and i guess i never will.. only Joe for parts :)

[DashRipRock]

Most likely the service manager is clueless to AC or anything mechanical in the car. I have used 3 different dealerships and the service manager knew almost nothing about Mazdas. The service manager at most dealerships are paper pushers.

[Iceman_F1]

Had a similar situation back with my Dad's van at a Ford Dealership. AC was not so cold and took it in, they sucked all the refrigerant out and determined there was a slow leak. They basically said either repair it here or go away empty because by law they cannot re fill a system that is leaking. Talk about being held hostage. If I took it elsewhere, I'd be charged a full fill.

Doesn't sound like the dealership is willing to go the distance for you. You were right to take your car elsewhere as you're not getting anywhere with this dealership. Sorry to hear.

I don't claim to be an expert and all my knowledge is so far from this thread...so excuse me if I'm wrong. However your example of the Ford dealership doesn't actually sound that bad. I'm not sure the steps needed to test for a leak and if a drain was needed first...but in this case, the fact that they were following the law that was stated that they can't fill a system that has a leak is the right thing to do. I would also assume that if a leak was suspect in the first place, depending on how they test it, it would also be irresponsible to knowingly pump the element through the system just to test for a leak.

Sure, you see it as being held hostage but it seems the dealer was doing the responsible thing to the environment by limiting the exposure based on the symptoms that were described to them. Now, it might have made more sense to outline ahead of time the steps they would take so you were aware of the options and possible results after so you could decide if that's what you wanted to be done, but their actions seem pretty reasonable given the situation.


Most likely the service manager is clueless to AC or anything mechanical in the car. I have used 3 different dealerships and the service manager knew almost nothing about Mazdas. The service manager at most dealerships are paper pushers.

I've come to the conclusion before that most managers, no matter where you go, know a lot less than they should about what they are dealing with but they are usually good people persons. Now, that's not to say you don't get managers who are very knowledgeable or on the flip side, are complete wastes of space. Just that usually managers are there to oversee and act as a buffer for their workers in case of dispute in this case. While it's nice that the manager was sticking up for the worker, at the same time, the manager should have been ready to make some concession with the customer to make both sides happy.

As has been stated in this thread, not all dealerships should be painted with the same brush (either the good or bad brush). Even if you find a good dealership, everyone makes mistakes and it's how it is handled after said mistake that shows the true colours of those involved.

Still, for the OP, sorry to hear the bad experience. Hopefully this helps others and you get the issue resolved in some way shape or form.

[Donutz]

..only Joe for parts :)

And to use the washroom.

[-RJ3-]

LooseCanon,

I Just replied about the great service I received from QEW Mazda on their thread... you might want to check them out...

[Skippy]

+1 for Ajax Mazda!

[n00bMeiSter]

Cancel the appointment and to elsewhere....

Yeah, I went to Dave Wood Mazda. Amazing experience there.

[gomac]

I don't claim to be an expert and all my knowledge is so far from this thread...so excuse me if I'm wrong. However your example of the Ford dealership doesn't actually sound that bad. I'm not sure the steps needed to test for a leak and if a drain was needed first...but in this case, the fact that they were following the law that was stated that they can't fill a system that has a leak is the right thing to do. I would also assume that if a leak was suspect in the first place, depending on how they test it, it would also be irresponsible to knowingly pump the element through the system just to test for a leak.

Sure, you see it as being held hostage but it seems the dealer was doing the responsible thing to the environment by limiting the exposure based on the symptoms that were described to them. Now, it might have made more sense to outline ahead of time the steps they would take so you were aware of the options and possible results after so you could decide if that's what you wanted to be done, but their actions seem pretty reasonable given the situation.



I've come to the conclusion before that most managers, no matter where you go, know a lot less than they should about what they are dealing with but they are usually good people persons. Now, that's not to say you don't get managers who are very knowledgeable or on the flip side, are complete wastes of space. Just that usually managers are there to oversee and act as a buffer for their workers in case of dispute in this case. While it's nice that the manager was sticking up for the worker, at the same time, the manager should have been ready to make some concession with the customer to make both sides happy.

As has been stated in this thread, not all dealerships should be painted with the same brush (either the good or bad brush). Even if you find a good dealership, everyone makes mistakes and it's how it is handled after said mistake that shows the true colours of those involved.

Still, for the OP, sorry to hear the bad experience. Hopefully this helps others and you get the issue resolved in some way shape or form.

+1 to everythign he said

[zzz3]

And to use the washroom.

their washroom is pretty nice, especially the big fancy mirror lol.