BlueStreak goes BT

[BlueStreak]

I've been mulling going big turbo for a while and finally decided to pull the trigger. Yesterday afternoon, I gave StreetUnit a call and put in an order for the ATP GT3071R and the Perrin EBCS.

Following a build on MSF.org, I ordered some silicone couplers from siliconeintakes.com to complete the package.

I was going to order the CPe Big Turbo Inlet and Big MAF Intake but rumour has it that SURE is coming out with a one piece intake/tip for big turbos so I'll be running my COBB intake with the PG TIP and a silicone reducer in the mean time.

To make things interesting, a few weeks ago, I ordered the Devil's Own Direct Port Meth Injection system and will be installing this along with the SURE TIGs, VTCS and EGR delete. The plan is to run 4xD03 nozzles for a full spray of 12GPH. Of course this could be accomplished with one large nozzle but direct port meth injection sounds too cool to pass up. Haha.

Direct Port setup.
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2745/5861758492_eae49e5ff4_b.jpg

I will post pictures of the turbo as soon as it arrives.

After the install, I will post a detailed write-up on tuning my car with the 3071 along with documenting every fail I encounter in doing so.

Cheers,

Dave

[Mr Wilson]

Can't wait to see it come together!

[loki]

very cool

[-cj-]

Good stuff man! Very interested in seeing what your car puts down with that setup!

[fywdyl]

Oh man... this is gonna be awesome! Keep us posted!

[horto]

:like

[Takumi616]

:thumbsup

[fywdyl]

:like

Ha ha, I tried clicking it...

[rzapata]

I like!!! :) Although, I did not understand some of the terms, it sounds like a major major upgrade of horses.. :)

You're talking about nitro methane when you said meth right??

[BlueStreak]

Haha. Not nitro methane; methanol.

It's an alcohol that serves two purposes when sprayed. 1) it cools the intake charge substantially and 2) it increases the octane of the fuel to combat knocking.

[Snotrocket]

OOOO another Big Turbo! Are you doing the install yourself? I intend on taking the leap into the big turbo world next year (hopefully)... Let me know if you need any free labor as it would be great learning experience for me also!

[rzapata]

Awesome stuff! :) Thanks for the info.. I'm thinking of getting the speed 3 so I want to learn a fair bit about them beforehand. Another question, when you do the direct port, does that mean you have an independent switch of some sort to spray the stuff in (just like NOS) or is it set up in a way where you have a jug/bottle somewhere in the car and it sprays on top of the fuel automatically???

It looks like you almost have a full-on racing machine there. I assume insurance does not need to know about all the upgrades you have going on under that hood. :)

[Snotrocket]

It sprays automatically i believe and can be tuned for the right amount from a jug in the car.

[laksman91]

Freaking awesome!

I believe the meth kit is tuned to spray at certain conditions - like after 5psi as an example

[rzapata]

Cool cool. Thanks all! :) Can't wait to get a speed 3!! :)

[arashms3]

It sprays automatically i believe and can be tuned for the right amount from a jug in the car.


Freaking awesome!

I believe the meth kit is tuned to spray at certain conditions - like after 5psi as an example

depending on who tunes the car. they can load a map for a tune with meth and a map for a tune without meth.. therefore based on the map settings at a certain psi or rpm the meth will spray once active..

good luck to bluestreak.. should be an interesting build.. waiting on the finished pictures!!!

[shu5892001]

I thought BlueStreak went on Breakfast Television... lol

[BlueStreak]

*MINI UPDATE*
All the BT turbo parts (save for the Perrin EBCS) have arrived in Buffalo, NY. I will be driving down Friday morning to pick everything up and will begin the install at around noon with a few friends. If everything goes well, we should be online by Saturday.

I will be calling around the Greater Toronto Area to get a hold of some dyno time on the Saturday to get this thing singing. It may be difficult as it is a long weekend here (and I believe in the US as well). I will tune the car myself and will post a step-by-step in the MS3/MS6 Tuning section of the forum.

Nudes of the turbo, exhaust side of the engine and associated parts will be posted ASAP.

[fywdyl]

*MINI UPDATE*
All the BT turbo parts (save for the Perrin EBCS) have arrived in Buffalo, NY. I will be driving down Friday morning to pick everything up and will begin the install at around noon with a few friends. If everything goes well, we should be online by Saturday.

I will be calling around the Greater Toronto Area to get a hold of some dyno time on the Saturday to get this thing singing. It may be difficult as it is a long weekend here (and I believe in the US as well). I will tune the car myself and will post a step-by-step in the MS3/MS6 Tuning section of the forum.

Nudes of the turbo, exhaust side of the engine and associated parts will be posted ASAP.

Looking forward to your results/guide! Thanks!

[Fobio]

I will be calling around the Greater Toronto Area to get a hold of some dyno time on the Saturday to get this thing singing. It may be difficult as it is a long weekend here (and I believe in the US as well). I will tune the car myself and will post a step-by-step in the MS3/MS6 Tuning section of the forum.


I suggest APH even if only so you can compare numbers with the other guys....but I know this wknd will be tough. Good luck

[BlueStreak]

I suggest APH even if only so you can compare numbers with the other guys....but I know this wknd will be tough. Good luck

I'll give them a shout. How's the smoking turbo fix? :chuckle

[BlueStreak]

First nude.

More tomorrow.

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5073/5889265906_9469ec6874_b.jpg

[BlueStreak]

After two (almost full) days, the turbo was successfully installed in addition to the direct port meth injection, VTCS delete, EGR delete and TIGs install. Now, onto the pictures that matter.

The required comparo of old vs. new, small vs. big. Bigger is better. Ha!
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6031/5905171958_b2b0877c6a_b.jpg

VTCS flappers gone. I kept the switches and associated vaccuum lines to avoid a CEL. I was going to open up the port on the right-hand side but didn't have the right Dremel bit. It was also a long weekend so stores were closed. I'll take care of that next time.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6034/5904606681_8879e93923_b.jpg

Intake manifold tapped and meth nozzles installed. Those are 4xD03 nozzles giving me the equivalent of 12GPH spray.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6027/5904608527_8339a77a23_b.jpg

One more.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5319/5904610459_e51cfa9612_b.jpg

Intake manifold all buttoned up in the engine bay with the meth system hooked up. The downside to running direct port is that the spray occurs AFTER the MAP sensor leaving you with no measurable decrease in BATs. In high heat situations, the ECU may default to the lower timing maps even though meth is spraying.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6037/5904614615_4a1520f724_b.jpg

GT3071R in its new home. I am using the new Perrin EBCS in 3 port mode to manage boost but forgot to take pictures.
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5199/5904616565_2973e39bd3_b.jpg

Tuning has already begun but I am not done yet; still ironing out bugs. Once tuning is complete, I will post up a thread in the tuning section on the steps I followed to get the motor singing.

I will also be converting my meth injection system from MAP based to MAF based. Stay tuned for a write up on that as well. As it stands, full spray at 20PSI in the 3.5K RPM range nets me some seriously rich AFRs (10.0 or so).

Cheers,

Dave

[rfinkle2]

Looks awesome Dave.

That is a nice, clean install.

I'm interested to see what controller you will use to change from map to maf based wmi injection.

Thanks for the pics.

[rfinkle2]

looking forward to seeing the remainder of a really nice, clean install.

I'm also interested in seeing what brand / type of controller you will be using for the maf based wmi.

Thanks for the pics.

[BlueStreak]

Thanks, Rob. Glad to see you're still around :-)

I'll be re-using the MAP based Devil's Own Stage 2 controller for the MAF setup ;-)

[cwp_sedan]

:drool

Can't wait to see what numbers it puts down!! :thumbsup

[Darkice]

Wow thats hot , im lookin forward to this to see how much hp it pushes

[-cj-]

Looking good! You made really good progress for just two days. (VTCS delete, etc).

Regarding your VTCS delete, you can simply use a relay to fool the system. You can then remove the black box and all that other junk. There's wiring diagrams on MSF for this.

Love your meth setup, although it really sucks that the ECU doesn't know about the cooler charge.

It might be the camera angle, but it looks like the last nozzle on the right most side (driver side), has a short hose... Not sure how much engine movement you're going to get, but you might want to make sure it doesn't get yanked out of the meth manifold thing...

Can't wait to see what numbers you put down!

[BlueStreak]

Found some gremlins that have been hampering optimal airflow at redline. I had a micro boost leak at two of my meth nozzles and one slightly bigger leak at my EBCS.

Since fixing the leak at the meth nozzles, g/s have increased. I'm going to take apart the intake tract fri/sat and test the $h!t out of everything that sees boost.

[robl]

WOW...AWESOME Dave!
Can't wait to hear the numbers once it's ready and tested!

[BlueStreak]

After taking my engine bay apart a solid 5 times, all boost leaks have been cured.

Some sad(ish) news:
I won't be converting my MAP (boost) based meth controller to MAF based. I got it to successfully run but there are some huge dangers that you can encounter (leading to a blown engine) that I decided to revert to MAP based with this controller. If you want to run meth, I suggest you get a MAF based unit right off the bat as it is far superior IMO. If you want, I can explain the dangers in person sometime.

Here's a datalog of my most recent tuning session. This map was tuned for 94 octane but I layer meth on top as an added safety feature. I figure I can raise the timing a few notches to take advantage of the meth and will do so in the future.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6015/5941525925_8a63c5bcc8_b.jpg

Some things of note:
- Full boost is between 3400RPMs and 3700RPMs making this turbo spool a solid 500-700 or so RPM slower. The lag is noticeable in the upper gears.
- Boost isn't as smooth as it should be. I have revised the WGDC down some to flatten it out. As it stands, I'm targeting 20.5-21 PSI.
- I ran a map that pushed 22 PSI and subsequently hit boost cut. Man, did it feel nice; that extra 1-1.5PSI is VERY noticeable. I'll be looking for an upgraded MAP sensor soon. Haha.
- Meth is turned on but does not affect (measured) BATs because I have a direct port setup. You can see the effects of meth by looking at AFRs.
- Adding timing to this setup is like downing a can of Redbull. I started off with 12 degrees at redline and subsequently raised it to 14 after a few iterations. The car woke up and pulls really hard. I don't remember the car reacting so well to timing with the stock turbo.

Overall, not too shabby. I was hoping for alot more airflow so I'm a little disappointed with that. I would say that it pulls as hard as the K04 but over a much larger RPM band. The K04 pulls super hard right on spool up then just pitters off rapidly; the GT3071R shoves you into the seat up until redline. I like.

Onto autocross tomorrow and time attack on Sunday!

[-cj-]

Overall, not too shabby. I was hoping for alot more airflow so I'm a little disappointed with that.

Your setup is very similar to the other BT setups here. (Except for the meth). The only thing that you're doing differently is your Cobb SF intake, which is 2.5". The CPE Nano is 3" and the one Fobio is running is 3.5" (I think). You should be getting the same g/s as every one else... although MAF calibration and scaling will report slightly different #'s.

I'd ensure that you don't have any boost leaks. That's what I always tell people (lol). I chased leaks on my car for nearly 2 years... I had forgotten what the car was supposed to feel like. Imagine my surprise when I finally found the source of my trouble.

(I guess the other thing is tuning... But as Fobio says, tune for safety and the power will come naturally...)

[BlueStreak]

How much airflow are you referring to? 330+g/s?

[-cj-]

I don't think you'll see 330+g/s on a 3071 without doing some more heavy mods. I was just comparing your numbers to other logs that Fobio posted up. I understood your comment as you not being happy with your numbers as they relate to 3071's... or were you just talking about the 3071 in general vs other turbos?

[BlueStreak]

Mine and Fobio's specifically.

Need moar power! Haha.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BlueStreak]

Just put in some hot laps at Mosport DDT for the CSCS. Datalogged KR for the whole run and only experienced 1 degree. Tune wise, I think we're golden until I can sort out the flow restriction.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BlueStreak]

Did a little more tuning tonight. I think I'm more or less done for now.

Conditions
- 30 Degrees Celcius (~90F)
- Humid as all hell.
- Meth on @ 12GPH (Direct port setup with 4xD03 nozzles)
- 3rd Gear
- Full boost = 21.5PSI

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6143/5972443767_db39096c9d_b.jpg

Notes
- Full boost comes online a 3500-3600RPM (depending on the datalog you happen to see)
- Max airflow is 287g/s (see conditions)
- Max timing is 15.5 degrees. I think there's more left in it but if meth stops, I'm venting a rod. Without meth in this weather, I'm at 11.5 degrees or so max timing.
- Despite the fact that I'm spraying a ton of meth, the effect on AFRs wears off by 4500RPM or so. I can run quite a bit more timing, though.

The car pulls really really hard. What's interesting is that the engine note changed as I started adding more timing. It sounds pissed off. I like.

I've reached a point that I'm ready to post a write up on tuning the GT3071R (or any big turbo for that matter).

Bring on the cooler weather!

[BlueStreak]

*MINI UPDATE*
At the tail end of my tuning session yesterday night, I started getting some spark plug blowout. The datalog you see above was one of a few where I didn't have that issue.

Fast forward to today and the temps have dropped to 20 Degrees Celcius (68F) with humidity at 94%. Blowout occurs every second or so before I throw in the towel and lift off.

I'm on ITV22s with out-of-the-box gapping. Ran them like this on my 20PSI K04 tune and 20.5PSI GT3071R tune. Now that I upped the boost and timing some more, they're no longer cutting it. I ordered another set of plugs and will regap them (and the existing set) down to .028.

I'm surprised I got away with it for so long :-)

[Fobio]

*MINI UPDATE*
At the tail end of my tuning session yesterday night, I started getting some spark plug blowout. The datalog you see above was one of a few where I didn't have that issue.

Fast forward to today and the temps have dropped to 20 Degrees Celcius (68F) with humidity at 94%. Blowout occurs every second or so before I throw in the towel and lift off.

I'm on ITV22s with out-of-the-box gapping. Ran them like this on my 20PSI K04 tune and 20.5PSI GT3071R tune. Now that I upped the boost and timing some more, they're no longer cutting it. I ordered another set of plugs and will regap them (and the existing set) down to .028.

I'm surprised I got away with it for so long :-)

I'm running 2-step colder plugs. My first set of porper WOT logs after the install showed it as well when I was on ITV-22's....amde the switch the same night to ITV-24's and it went away.

With regards to timing, I can safely run up to 16 @ redline. And yes, when timing is right, the car sounds...different.

[BlueStreak]

Did you re-gap the plugs or just drop them in?

[Fobio]

Did you re-gap the plugs or just drop them in?

I went thru 4 sets of plugs, at least...all Denso's...and I've gapped 3 sets myself. 2 sets were gapped properly when I checked. 1 set, had 2 plugs that I needed to tighten the gap...I basically tapped the tip against a thin mouse pad and checked the gap after each tap.

[BlueStreak]

I think I'll have Sunday free and I'm getting the itch to go to town on the valves. I also bought a compression checker to make sure everything is up to snuff.

Will report back with pictures/findings if I go through with it.

EDIT: Will also document any fail that I encounter.

[Fobio]

I think I'll have Sunday free and I'm getting the itch to go to town on the valves. I also bought a compression checker to make sure everything is up to snuff.

Will report back with pictures/findings if I go through with it.

EDIT: Will also document any fail that I encounter.

Pls do a before and after log, allowing the only variable to be the cleaning and nothing else.

[BlueStreak]

Sure.

[Snotrocket]

The K04 pulls super hard right on spool up then just pitters off rapidly;

Not to high jack you're thread. Just a quick question. Is this why I can't hold 19 psi past like 5000?

[BlueStreak]

Not to high jack you're thread. Just a quick question. Is this why I can't hold 19 psi past like 5000?

I was fully bolted and could only manage 19PSI at redline; y WGDC was maxed. Theoretically, I could've upped the boost some more with a 3 port EBCS but the K04 is already waaaayyyyy past its efficiency at that flow rate that its essentially shooting fire into the engine.

[BlueStreak]

*MINI UPDATE*
I took some time this evening to re-gap the plugs (.026" just in case) and check my compression (will post results tomorrow). Blowout problems are gone.

Did a little more map tweaking and here's the resulting datalog. 4th gear log.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6123/5982987819_747e5c6356_b.jpg

Notes:
- The turbo spools fast as hell, now. Full boost at 32xxRPMs.
- My TRL X Gear tables are still affecting my boost (19.29 PSI @ 39xxRPM and a corresponding dip in throttle position). This has been fixed.
- Max g/s still sucks. I did another boost leak check and can hear another tiny leak. Unfortunately, I haven't found where it is, yet. I doubt it's worth 30+g/s though :P

Cheers,
Dave

[Fobio]

2.4 load is definitely nothing to laugh at. Would be great for AutoX I bet, but it is subjecting the engine to a lot of relateively lower rpm stress.

You'll certainly be able to flow more in the top end if you:

1. switch over to the new maps and with the new ATR and AP firmware...it'll get you the faster resolution I'm using.

2. Use Virtual Dyno, watch EGT, and play with timing.

Keep the meth flowing and you should be safe!

Is that a 3rd or 4th gear log?

[BlueStreak]

2.4 load is definitely nothing to laugh at. Would be great for AutoX I bet, but it is subjecting the engine to a lot of relateively lower rpm stress.

You'll certainly be able to flow more in the top end if you:

1. switch over to the new maps and with the new ATR and AP firmware...it'll get you the faster resolution I'm using.

2. Use Virtual Dyno, watch EGT, and play with timing.

Keep the meth flowing and you should be safe!

Is that a 3rd or 4th gear log?

I used to be concerned about low RPM stress but then I saw superskater's datalogs showing something in the 3.0+ range on stock internals and figured what the hell. In my opinion, calculated load is a great measure of stress on the engine and is good at maintaining relativity when comparing stress across RPMs. Because of that, I don't see a big issue of stressing the engine at 2.4 load at low RPM or high RPM within a given gear (2.4 load on this turbo at low RPMs vs. 2.4 load on a bigger turbo at high RPMs - what's the difference in stress?). Load is load. That being said, I have a load cap in 5th and 6th gears as calculated load doesn't take gear selection into account.

1. I am using the new Beta maps with the updated AP. Why it didn't log faster is beyond me. When logging on my laptop, the resolution was crazy.
2. That virtual dyno is such a heartbreaker for me. I think I got something like 290hp? Haha.

It's a 4th gear log. Forgot to mention that, sorry.

[Fobio]

I used to be concerned about low RPM stress but then I saw superskater's datalogs showing something in the 3.0+ range on stock internals and figured what the hell. In my opinion, calculated load is a great measure of stress on the engine and is good at maintaining relativity when comparing stress across RPMs. Because of that, I don't see a big issue of stressing the engine at 2.4 load at low RPM or high RPM within a given gear (2.4 load on this turbo at low RPMs vs. 2.4 load on a bigger turbo at high RPMs - what's the difference in stress?). Load is load. That being said, I have a load cap in 5th and 6th gears as calculated load doesn't take gear selection into account.

1. I am using the new Beta maps with the updated AP. Why it didn't log faster is beyond me. When logging on my laptop, the resolution was crazy.
2. That virtual dyno is such a heartbreaker for me. I think I got something like 290hp? Haha.

It's a 4th gear log. Forgot to mention that, sorry.

I think the engine can handle a flat 2.1 load across the band...lol...having said that, it's the dynamic compression and length of time it's subjected to that compression in the lower rpm range per combustion event that is worrisome. otherwise, the rest of the power band looks nice and lifted load-wise...why Virtual Dyno would be a heartbreaker for you in that case, esp with such high load is beyond me.

it also depends on your driving style and situation, I suppose. I always want to give up peak torque for more hp, and tuning this car forces you to kind of do that...when the engine makes higher loads down low, it heats up quicker and forces you to be more conservative with your timing up top to keep from knocking. I told you I tune the car for the Big Track, so higher end power is what I'm concerned with.

I also remember telling you I run up to 16* at redline, but you know I also caution on playing with timing if you can't observe the changes, esp with EGT and power increments.

If you're up for it, we can certainly straighten out your timing together.

[BlueStreak]

At this point, I'm concerned about MBT and how close I am to it. Given that I am spraying a ton of meth, it is possible that I can come too close/pass it when street tuning.

I think I need an hour long session at APH :)

[BlueStreak]

Here are the results of the compression test:
Cylinder 1 - 185PSI. Win.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6022/5984458939_1de7f9cb21.jpg
Cylinder 2 - 160PSI. Fail.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6139/5985023972_bc11244c98.jpg
Cylinder 3 - 180 PSI. Win.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6026/5985025000_5537bab890.jpg
Cylinder 4 - 190 PSI. Win.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6137/5985025778_659c636077.jpg

Cylinder 2 is hating life. I'm guessing it either runs lean because of unequal air distribution from the intake manifold (the spark plug looked fine) or the valves are so gummed up to the point that it cannot properly seal. I'm hoping for the latter.

Also, a few days ago, I noticed the engine was down on oil after doing the Time Attack event. Looking at the intercooler piping revealed where it all went.

Pic of the boost tube before the throttle body. It was dark out...
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6022/5984462655_73b374218b_z.jpg

I went through the piping and noticed that it was coming from the valve cover breather and being recirced through the intake. Glad its not coming from the turbo :)

I'll have to figure out what to do about this.

[Fobio]

keep us posted on the results of your mini-teardown. I think your oil loss is something the other MS3's experience, but not everyone removes their intake tract to examine.

with regards to MBT, if you have an EGT gauge and a reliable way to gauge power gains, you can street tune timing. an hour on the dyno isn't that expensive tho, for the peace of mind.

[BlueStreak]

I had about 2 hours free tonight to work on the car. I finished cleaning the valves and this is the end result.

Cylinder 1
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6028/6000330179_ae60420d6c_z.jpg

Cylinder 2
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6010/6000331421_3c6e94d518_z.jpg

Cylinder 3
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6142/6000332555_fd2fd6ced4_z.jpg

Cylinder 4
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6133/6000333967_bcc409eed7_z.jpg

Overall, they're pretty clean. We'll see what this yields; I doubt it'll do very much in my opinion. It'll be interesting to have a look at datalogs.

While I had the intake manifold off, I decided to remove the VTCS hump on runner 4.
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6131/6000335481_0c0d54a0ec_z.jpg

For some reason, the flash makes it look really shitty. In person, it looks alright. I couldn't get at it with a grinding stone for final touches since the bit seized to the Dremel chuck. Fack.

And last but not least, I tried modifying part of the compression checker to make it into a leak down tester. It didn't work since the one way valve automatically vents air to the atmosphere when air is pushed in the opposite direction. There are some places that have tool loaning programs but none of them have a leak down tester. I may have to go without a leak down test for now.

I'll report back with more info once I make more progress.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Fobio]

great pics man!

how are you finding the valves and the gunk coming out of them? is it hard to come off?

[BlueStreak]

It requires some effort to get the crap off. With the right tool, it comes off in about 3 rounds of spray-scrub-vacuum per valve.

[BlueStreak]

*UPDATE*

Everything was reinstalled and the car is running well. I will be performing an oil change tomorrow with either Rotella 5w40 or Mobil 1 0w40 Euro Spec oil then will do some tuning and multiple pulls.

After that, the intercooler will come off to inspect the intake tract. I expect to have everything done by Friday/Saturday and will report back with my results.

[MajesticBlueNTO]

It requires some effort to get the crap off. With the right tool, it comes off in about 3 rounds of spray-scrub-vacuum per valve.


*UPDATE*

Everything was reinstalled and the car is running well. I will be performing an oil change tomorrow with either Rotella 5w40 or Mobil 1 0w40 Euro Spec oil then will do some tuning and multiple pulls.

After that, the intercooler will come off to inspect the intake tract. I expect to have everything done by Friday/Saturday and will report back with my results.

:like :thumbsup

[Snotrocket]

*UPDATE*

Everything was reinstalled and the car is running well. I will be performing an oil change tomorrow with either Rotella 5w40 or Mobil 1 0w40 Euro Spec oil then will do some tuning and multiple pulls.

After that, the intercooler will come off to inspect the intake tract. I expect to have everything done by Friday/Saturday and will report back with my results.

What oil did you go with and why? I'm due for an oil change.

[BlueStreak]

I went with Rotella T6 5w40 based on Neil's discussion at our tuning meet. Another option was the Mobil 1 0w40 Eurospec oil found at Part Source.

Previously, I was running Mobil 1 5w40 (and more recently 5w30 by accident) and it generally comes out like water after 5,000 KMs.

I also threw in some Motorcraft Synthetic Manual Transmission Fluid and I must say, I'm in love. Previously, downshifting to second gear would be followed up with a *thunk*. Now, just smoothness. Also, I have yet to grind the 2-3 shift. Awesome stuff.

[Snotrocket]

I remember the discussion and am pretty sure it's a diesel engine oil but I just wanted to confirm before I do the oil change.

Edit: do they sell it in 1 L bottles? I can only find 5L jugs at crappy

[BlueStreak]

Yep, it's diesel engine oil.

I could only find 5L jugs as well. The left over will be used as a top up for the next round.


---
- Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Snotrocket]

Alright thanks...

Another question. If you could go back to when you were going to buy your meth injection kit would you have still gone with the Direct Port Injection?

[BlueStreak]

Yep. I would've gone with a better controller though. Either something that runs off the MAF sensor or injector pulse width. Running off the MAP sensor is just silly.

[BlueStreak]

After the oil change and about 1500KM later (almost 1K Miles), I took off my intake manifold to ensure the crow's feet were fully tightened as a precautionary measure. Everything was pretty snug but I went ahead and ordered the proper studs/nuts to replace the current Torx setup.

What I did forget to do was check for any discolouring around the injectors as this would indicate I have a leak in that area. I will have a closer look when I do the Torx/Stud swap.

While the manifold was off, I snapped some pictures of my intake tract. Still squeaky clean!
http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6080/6073272097_ed1a2c28f0_b.jpg
I also removed the PCV from the crankcase that connects to the IM and did a very crude leak check by blowing in it. It seems to be working fine.

Unfortunately, I still get blowby as evidenced by miniscule traces of oil in my boost tubes. I'm just going to deal with it until the engine blows up or I go forged (this is a long shot right now). What I will be doing in the mean time (possibly Saturday) is removing the recirc hose from the VC to the intake and just venting it to the bottom of the engine bay with some hosing so that crap doesn't get sucked up by the engine. The fitting in my COBB SRI will also be capped off so I don't have a huge leak. Haha.

Finally, I decided to buy the Kenne Bell Boost-A-Spark from NJSPEED3 to play around with it some. It seems as though people have been dealing with blowout by reducing the sparkplug gap. This also comes with the side effect of a smaller spark (shorter distance for the spark to jump) which I'm sure affects how well the air-fuel mixture is ignited. I will be performing some tests to see if I can up the voltage on the BAS and run gaps closer to .03. To see if this makes any difference, I will take datalogs and compare them using Virtual Dyno (.026 gap w/o BAS vs. .026 gap w/ BAS vs. .03 gap /w BAS). As a control, I will be reverting back to COBB Stage 2 93 Octane timing values on the top end (will keep existing timing values down low for proper spooling) just in case the engine gets excited and decides to knock (as I don't know if it will/won't by upping the voltage on the BAS).

Cheers,
Dave


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BlueStreak]

I have come to the conclusion that my blowout was not in fact blowout but misfiring (the same and different I suppose). Cylinder number 3 really isn`t pulling its weight and I can`t for the life of me get a tune to hold without getting 3 bursts of .35KR spread out through a pull.

I`m pretty sure it was denial that was preventing me from coming to that realization.

Getting at the rings is the biggest pain in the ass just for the sake of doing so. The whole damn motor has to come apart. Soooo the motor is getting built with the following:

- Wiseco pistons
- Carillo rods
- ARP main/head studs
- Cometic head gasket
- Assorted lubes (ARP for the studs, some cam lube and KY for good measure).

With this setup, the engine should be able to withstand a nuclear blast from within. Anybody have some uranium?

Once things get underway, I'll start a new thread with the teardown/build. Expect a bit of a twist :)

It`s kind`ve bittersweet as I didn`t want to build the motor (well, not get *forced* into doing so) until I decided that I wanted to.

Cheers,
Dave

[fywdyl]

Wow, that's big news! Can't wait to see the results!

[Mr Wilson]

Sucks to hear, was reading about it last night on the speedforum. Can't wait to see your engine build come together.

[Snotrocket]

Nuclear ms3. New concept, I like. If they can do it with submarines why not your car? Just don't get in an accident, we could loose most of Toronto.

[-cj-]

Wow...congrats man.... It's better to build your motor on your terms then have to be forced to do so!

I have some questions:

1) It seems like your .35 knock is minor.... something you can safely ignore? Is it getting worse?
2) Isn't there an option in ATR to enable treating each cylinder's ignition slightly different for cases where you have compression loss in one of the cylinders?

... Yup, advanced options: Enable Ignition Per Cyl. Comp. - When checked, the ECU should allow you to use Ign Per Cylinder Comp. table to modify ignition advance per each cylinder.


Not sure if that's something that can help you or not. My tuning skills aren't as good as yours or Fobio's.

Are you building your own engine or getting a shop? What do you expect for down time? I take it you have something else to drive?

[BlueStreak]

Wow...congrats man.... It's better to build your motor on your terms then have to be forced to do so!

I have some questions:

1) It seems like your .35 knock is minor.... something you can safely ignore? Is it getting worse?
2) Isn't there an option in ATR to enable treating each cylinder's ignition slightly different for cases where you have compression loss in one of the cylinders?

... Yup, advanced options: Enable Ignition Per Cyl. Comp. - When checked, the ECU should allow you to use Ign Per Cylinder Comp. table to modify ignition advance per each cylinder.


Not sure if that's something that can help you or not. My tuning skills aren't as good as yours or Fobio's.

Are you building your own engine or getting a shop? What do you expect for down time? I take it you have something else to drive?

1 and 2) The .35 knock retard is an indicator of the misfire. The ECU is pulling timing, yes, but not for the right reason as it isn't really knock so it can't be tuned out be leaning/richening the mixture or playing with timing. The only way to stop it from misfiring (in my case at least) is to turn down the boost (why the heck would I do that? :-P). Other indicators include fluctuating AFRs (+/- .2 AFR) and exact same RPM readings over 3 datapoints in datalogs.

I will source the expertise as needed. The areas requiring the touch of a pro (honing the block, gapping the rings properly, matching pistons/rods to crank/cylinder) will be outsourced. Assembly will be done by me.

Downtime will be several weeks I suppose as I don't want to drive the car anymore as it is. Putting around, it drives fine but it still bothers me; the urge to go WOT is always there when I'm in the Speed. In the mean time, I'll be driving a spare car we have at home.

[-cj-]

Sorry I'm running out to dinner, just wanted to get this out there... Didn't we discuss a while ago that your issues *might* have been related to the CPe seals? (Some people on MSF were commenting about the same problems)? Are there any other parts (Aside from worn rings) that could be causing this problem? (Coil pack, CPe seals, etc?)

[BlueStreak]

I checked all of that. There is no noticeable leaking around the injectors.

I stretched my coil packs and gapped my plugs down to .026". Still fail.

[Fobio]

You already know how I feel about this... =)

"Build it...and they will come..."

...all over the computer screen when you're done...lol...

[BlueStreak]

Haha.

Appropriate pr0nographic pictures will be posted.

[taz4432]

Just read through this whole post from start to finish...probably some things I forgot along the way but a few comments/questions:

1. When you did the compression test and you found the one cylinder was low did you put a bit of oil in and retest to see if it's the piston ring?
2. Personally I would NEVER clean valves with the head still on the car - you're just asking for trouble no matter how well you think you vacuum/clean it. Great to do but do it when the head is off...
3. Are you using any sort of failsafe for your meth system? Are you running full spray from 5psi (or whatever value) onwards?
4. I find it amusing that .35 KR worries you guys. I know the 2.3L DISIs aren't even remotely 'bombproof' but .35 is such a small value that it could just as easily be phantom knock. If it's below 1 it's hardly anything to worry about...even then I wouldn't get worked up about it. On my car I have my CEL set to come on at >= 2 degrees of KR above a certain RPM/TPS %, so if I don't see that light then my foot stays to the mat. The logs will tell me if anything needs to change =D (Note: I'm not saying to just ignore the .35KR, but I just find it amusing to see people get worked up about it).
5. What CR will you be running in your rebuilt engine?
6. Good luck getting any engine machining/work done on short notice; most shops I know of you'll be lucky to get something started within a month. What shop are you planning to use?

[BlueStreak]

Just read through this whole post from start to finish...probably some things I forgot along the way but a few comments/questions:

1. When you did the compression test and you found the one cylinder was low did you put a bit of oil in and retest to see if it's the piston ring?
2. Personally I would NEVER clean valves with the head still on the car - you're just asking for trouble no matter how well you think you vacuum/clean it. Great to do but do it when the head is off...
3. Are you using any sort of failsafe for your meth system? Are you running full spray from 5psi (or whatever value) onwards?
4. I find it amusing that .35 KR worries you guys. I know the 2.3L DISIs aren't even remotely 'bombproof' but .35 is such a small value that it could just as easily be phantom knock. If it's below 1 it's hardly anything to worry about...even then I wouldn't get worked up about it. On my car I have my CEL set to come on at >= 2 degrees of KR above a certain RPM/TPS %, so if I don't see that light then my foot stays to the mat. The logs will tell me if anything needs to change =D (Note: I'm not saying to just ignore the .35KR, but I just find it amusing to see people get worked up about it).
5. What CR will you be running in your rebuilt engine?
6. Good luck getting any engine machining/work done on short notice; most shops I know of you'll be lucky to get something started within a month. What shop are you planning to use?

1. Yep. Compression went up.
2. Compression was already low at this point. It's a non issue if you do it right IMO. Difference of opinions? :)
3. No failsafe. If the engine blows when meth stops, I'll know why. Haha.
4. The .35KR does not worry me one bit. The .35KR was just an indicator of the misfire; it was not legitimate. I know what real KR feels/sounds like as I have experienced both types. On normal datalogging runs, I'll keep my foot planted right up to 2KR as that doesn't worry me.

Before this whole issue, I ran 16* timing up top with zero KR. Now, no matter how much timing I pull (10* up top) I still get the same .35KR. It's not knock and is consistent in every datalog.
5. Stock. 9.5:1
6. Canadian Cylinder Head most likely. Comes highly recommended from a friend.

[BlueStreak]

Here is a "delta" analysis of a datalog taken a few days ago.

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6072/6104846784_71186a2bfb_b.jpg

I deleted some PIDs to fit extra columns: Time Delta and RPM Delta. Ideally, time delta (light blue column) would always be the same (it varies a little) and RPM delta (yellow column) should increase as the engine reaches peak torque then decrease from there. Roughly, these two values occur as described. I high-lighted some (though not all of the anomalies).

Noteworthy things:
- In some instances, RPM delta is equal to zero. In other words, in one tenth of an elapsed second, RPMs did not rise (see green high-lights). This is a(n) (obvious) misfire.
- In other instances, RPM delta is negative. This should never happen since I was going WOT the whole run (see red high-lights). This is a(n) (obvious) misfire.
- Less obvious is the 34xxRPM to 48xxRPM range where the RPM delta should be at its highest yet there are instances where the delta is half of the value before it. This is a less obvious misfire.
- AFRs jump around a good bit.
- Then there are the bouts of .35KR across the rev range. I could not tune that out for the life of me using richer/leaner AFRs and conservative timing (see spark advance)

Misfire city.

[Snotrocket]

That was a very interesting read thank you. Made sense the first time I read it which is a credit to you as it usually takes a lot longer lol.

[fywdyl]

I've noticed the same thing on some of my logs too (i.e. RPM going backwards) even though it's only for a split second. I'm assuming that I may be having the same prob?

[BlueStreak]

MMmmmmaybe. I wouldn't pin it down to just the RPM delta though as other datalogs of cars that are fine exhibit similar behaviours to some extent.

[BlueStreak]

Gents, I'd like to make some edits to the notes I made on the datalog. Seeing as how I can't go back and edit, I will insert the changes below:


- In some instances, RPM delta is equal to zero. In other words, in one tenth of an elapsed second, RPMs did not rise (see green high-lights). This is a *probable* misfire. (I have studied datalogs on the forum and have noticed that this can happen on a car that is not misfiring).
- In other instances, RPM delta is negative. This should never happen since I was going WOT the whole run (see red high-lights). This is a *probable* misfire with greater certainty.
- AFRs jump around a good bit.
- Then there are the bouts of .35KR across the rev range. I could not tune that out for the life of me using richer/leaner AFRs and conservative timing (see spark advance).

All of these conditions in conjunction show that I am misfiring. On occasion, the car would throw a P0300 or P0303 code as well.

I also have datalogs where RPMs do not rise over 3-4 sample sets...