Terrible Experience at Mazda of Toronto (Service)

[kmishi]

I came in today for the power steering recall, and as my A/C has not been lowing hot air I asked for it to be checked out as well.

When speaking with Lois at the front desk I explained the symptoms and that when I am merging on the highway and accelerating to higher speeds, hot air blows, but the car begins to overheat. I also agreed for an oil change. Lois prints out a sheet for me to sign and tells me it will be $114.95 to check the heat issue, $44.95 for the "overheating issue", and $45 for the oil change. A little annoyed, I politely ask her to remove the oil change, and that I don't need to check the overheating issue. She complies.

I get a pleasant call from her to let me know it is the Thermostat that needs to be replaced + coolant, she says it will cost about $400 to fix, I agree... When picking up the car, Lois is reluctant to give me the sheet with the breakdown of fees, walks me upstairs to pay, gives it to me, and when I ask to take a look at it and ask her how it's broken down she gives me a muffled answer about parts and leaves me to pay the receptionist.

Though I am partly to blame for being naive, it should not be up to me, the 'average joe' to be responsible for knowing the average cost of a repair for a thermostat replacement. My 'mechanic', which is also the dealership that sold me this car, should do all they can to get me to A. Keep me happy with my Mazda and B. Keep me interested in owning a Mazda, so that the next time I purchase one it is from them (which for the record, I was until today planning on doing at Mazda of Toronto next month).

If you are interested, labour costs me $344.95, and the thermostat assembly $94.78.

Maybe its a blessing in disguise that this happened a month before I was going to buy a car from there. I will take my money elsewhere.

This guy paid $259.00, just last year: http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/showthread.php?49033-mazda-of-toronto...undecided&highlight=thermostat

[peterm15]

My understanding of the 259.00 is that was just labour. So if you take 260+115 its 375.

I'd need to see the invoice but it really doesn't sound that far off for dealer service and diagn.

Btw. I don't trust dealers and have never had my car serviced at one. So before anyone chimes in and say sponcer kiss ass. I don't go to any.

[kmishi]

The $115 was the fee to check it out but was said that it would go towards the cost of the repair if I decided to go through with it, otherwise that's what I would of paid, which is why I didn't see much a choice when asked if I wanted to do the repairs. Labour was marked as $344.95 on the invoice before any taxes and any parts. Total with everything cost me about $496.00!

[sip]

OMG $500 to replace the thermostat. Mazda repairs seems very expensive. I recently paid $125 ($27 parts & $98 one hr. labour) to replace thermostat in my Dodge Caravan at the dealer and I thought I got ripped off because it didn't take nowhere close to an hour to do the job. May be replacing Mazda thermostat is complicated.

[Jackal]

OMG $500 to replace the thermostat. Mazda repairs seems very expensive. I recently paid $125 ($27 parts & $98 one hr. labour) to replace thermostat in my Dodge Caravan at the dealer and I thought I got ripped off because it didn't take nowhere close to an hour to do the job. May be replacing Mazda thermostat is complicated.

He also mentioned that it included the coolant. How much would that cost in addition to the thermostat? Still sounds like a lot of labour to me.

[peterm15]

Makes more sense to me now.

That sounds like it would have been 5 hrs labour. Seems excessive but how hard is thermostat replacement on a 3. I doubt 5 hrs worth.

[sip]

Why not get an estimate from another dealer or repair shop?

[Noisy Crow]

Makes more sense to me now.

That sounds like it would have been 5 hrs labour. Seems excessive but how hard is thermostat replacement on a 3. I doubt 5 hrs worth.

Just took a look at the shop manual. No hours listed, but not a lot to pull apart. The only possible iffy bit is that the belt tensioner has to come off, but I think that's only a couple of bolts. With air tools and experience it probably takes less than two hours.

[Kiyomi]

never have gotten maintenance done at dealerships. dont trust them to work on my baby. do it yourself or find a good mechanic like jimmy at street performance.

[sjd]

Labour for a thermostat repair on a Mazda3 should be about $160 with $120 for the thermostat and coolant on top of that. That's according to Mazda.

[cwp_sedan]

1. Deal with Vincent.
2. Did you tell them you were a TM3 member before hand to receive a discount?
3. Always check over your invoice before you pay. I would definitely have escalated it to the manager if things didn't add up. Sounds to me though that it's not that far off.

Labour is around $110/hr there so technically they charged you for approx 3 hours. I have no idea what the book states for time. To me, that doesn't seem too far off the mark (by their book, which is always on the high side for labour times).

Ultimately the labour costs do seem high but that is what you get at a dealership and I personally wouldn't have paid to have it fixed there. Even when she said $400 I would have been asking about the breakdown of the costs just to be safe. All dealerships should be your friend, especially if they want your business in the future. In the end, a lot aren't.

I have had pretty good experiences with MOT, but I know some haven't.

Looks like you'll have to eat the repair on this one and be smarter about your next one.

[sjd]

Labour is around $110/hr there so technically they charged you for approx 3 hours. I have no idea what the book states for time. To me, that doesn't seem too far off the mark (by their book, which is always on the high side for labour times).


Book time is 1.5

[cwp_sedan]

Book time is 1.5

:S well there you go.

[gabbygenier]

thats expensive. the thermostat is less then 100$ reason its high is cause its not just the thermostat like other cars if youve ever changed one. it includes the whole housing with it. and reason you need to change the coolant is cause you pretty much have to drain it all to before the thermostat comes off.

i did this last year at around this time. took the guy that helped me do it less then an hour (hes stuborn so he pretty much did it all haha). it took longer to fill the rad back up then it did to replace the thermostat.

i think you got ripped off on the labor. we didnt have to remove anything other then the thermostat and the hoses that went to it. so 3 bolts and 2 clamps if i remember correctly

[FLIPDADY]

I checked your service invoice and it clearly says that a cooling system flush was performed as well. Could be the reason for the extra labor charge.

Also it's never bad to ask for a discount when you come in for any major work.

[Shawn]

Really, a flush. Procedure says to completely drain the system anyways. Sounds like a double dip.

[kmishi]

I checked your service invoice and it clearly says that a cooling system flush was performed as well. Could be the reason for the extra labor charge.

Also it's never bad to ask for a discount when you come in for any major work.


So you confirm that there is clearly an extra labour charge for something unnecessary that was added unto my invoice, is what you're saying?

[bluemazda3]

it was necessary so they charged you for it

[cwp_sedan]

So you confirm that there is clearly an extra labour charge for something unnecessary that was added unto my invoice, is what you're saying?

Joe isn't saying that at all. All Joe is stating is what you should have mentioned earlier, which is that you should have told us exactly what they charged you for on your invoice. Whether it's an extra unnecessary charge is for you to find out from the service dept. Joe isn't responsible for that.

[kmishi]

Joe isn't saying that at all. All Joe is stating is what you should have mentioned earlier, which is that you should have told us exactly what they charged you for on your invoice. Whether it's an extra unnecessary charge is for you to find out from the service dept. Joe isn't responsible for that.

Although I'm sure you are and Joe are the greatest of e-friends; it does not change the fact that this was Unfair Business Practice, Joe's responsibilities are irrelevant to my situation, I'm sure he's a great, knowledgeable, helpful person, but his comment clearly re-enforces my original claim that I was over-charged.

I do not know much about cars, or invoices for service, and key words to look for, and do not care to know much about either, and what I do know is from this forum. The facts were misrepresented to me, I was not told, or explained a flush was done, or that it would cost me additional labour charges, or given the option to not flush the coolant and simply top it off.

To also put this in perspective for you, I have called two other Mazda Service departments who've both said that a flush was not necessary and that only topping off the coolant was necessary when changing the thermostat. It should be obvious to you, now, that if I've left out some minor detail it isn't to tarnish the MoT name, but because I am not a mechanic, I am someone who has clearly been cheated.

[S.F.W.]

Why don't you call or visit the service manager at MoT and discuss your concerns ?

[cwp_sedan]

Although I'm sure you are and Joe are the greatest of e-friends; it does not change the fact that this was Unfair Business Practice, Joe's responsibilities are irrelevant to my situation, I'm sure he's a great, knowledgeable, helpful person, but his comment clearly re-enforces my original claim that I was over-charged.

I do not know much about cars, or invoices for service, and key words to look for, and do not care to know much about either, and what I do know is from this forum. The facts were misrepresented to me, I was not told, or explained a flush was done, or that it would cost me additional labour charges, or given the option to not flush the coolant and simply top it off.

To also put this in perspective for you, I have called two other Mazda Service departments who've both said that a flush was not necessary and that only topping off the coolant was necessary when changing the thermostat. It should be obvious to you, now, that if I've left out some minor detail it isn't to tarnish the MoT name, but because I am not a mechanic, I am someone who has clearly been cheated.

Greatest of e-friends? lol, I don't even know the guy. :chuckle :pofl

I know Joe's responsibilities are irrelevant but even if they (MOT) are wrong, he is not going to come out and discuss specifics regarding this and jeopardize his job. Think about it.

I'm glad you were able to do some homework by calling other dealerships. I was going to suggest that before. Most people just complain about their situation and don't actually do anything

Now that you have that information, go back to MOT and escalate it to the service manager. If they can't do anything for you then speck to the owner. Note that you feel you have been charged for more than you should have and show them your invoice, talk to them about talking to other dealerships, etc. I know you have been able to discuss your concerns on here and possibly get some information out of this thread, but you have to actually go back and talk to them. No one here is going to be able to do anything for you.

Another tip. Start by being relatively nice and mention that their must have been a misunderstanding on their end since you were overcharged. No one is going to help you if you go in pistols blazing, even if you are right. Good luck.

[FoXy]

:pop ryan... you're my e-friend

[cwp_sedan]

:pop ryan... you're my e-friend

woohoo, an e-friend! :thumbsup

[Thrizzl3]

e-friend? LOL..everyone on here is an "e-friend" to me lmao!

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

Although I'm sure you are and Joe are the greatest of e-friends; it does not change the fact that this was Unfair Business Practice, Joe's responsibilities are irrelevant to my situation, I'm sure he's a great, knowledgeable, helpful person, but his comment clearly re-enforces my original claim that I was over-charged.

I do not know much about cars, or invoices for service, and key words to look for, and do not care to know much about either, and what I do know is from this forum. The facts were misrepresented to me, I was not told, or explained a flush was done, or that it would cost me additional labour charges, or given the option to not flush the coolant and simply top it off.

To also put this in perspective for you, I have called two other Mazda Service departments who've both said that a flush was not necessary and that only topping off the coolant was necessary when changing the thermostat. It should be obvious to you, now, that if I've left out some minor detail it isn't to tarnish the MoT name, but because I am not a mechanic, I am someone who has clearly been cheated.

How old is your car and when was the last time the coolant was flushed? Maybe they also looked at your service records and saw that you hadn't had a coolant flush before or in x number of years. Sure, topping it off is probably satisfactory when replacing the thermostat, but if they tested the properties of the coolant and it was old, it isn't a bad idea to flush the system and add new coolant when doing the thermostat change. At least then you should be good for several more years without having to do anything to the coolant system again unless there is another failure. This said, yes, this should have been fully disclosed to you and options provided. So they dropped the ball on the communication part, but not necessarily on doing what was in fact best for your car.

So, with a flush and thermostat change, the price you paid is consistent with dealer charges and rates. News flash for you. Dealers are very expensive when it comes to servicing a car for basically anything. There are a wealth of other places to take your car for service and many of them are regularly mentioned on here by members.

It really wouldn't hurt you to take a little more time and accountability regarding the maintenance of your own vehicle. There is a ton of information available here and on the internet in general. You made mention that it isn't the responsibility of the 'average Joe' to know the average prices for things like a thermostat change or general car maintenance and that you don't have interest in learing this anyway. Hate to tell you, but just like everything else in life, it is very much your responsibility to be as informed as possible when making decisions pertaining to you. Otherwise, you're setting yourself up for perpetual failure and disappointment. You have the accountability to be as knowledgeable as possible and you also have the accountability to speak-up when you are not happy about something.

Did you get ripped off by MOT? No.
Did MOT demonstrate bad customer communication? Probably yes. But you are also accountable here to get the answers you want at the time.

[sip]

Did you get ripped off by MOT? No.
Did MOT demonstrate bad customer communication? Probably yes. But you are also accountable here to get the answers you want at the time.

OP definitely got ripped off by MOT. OP should at least ask MOT to refund the coolant flush, as he did not authorize it. He does not have to pay for unauthorized work. OP should also check the hours charged for replacing the thermostat because they seem to be excessive. The customers expect dealers to act ethically and in good faith and do not go to dealers expecting to get ripped off. Don't blame the OP for going to a dealer.

I don't know why some people in this forum needlessly defend sponsors even in indefensible situations.

[peterm15]

The op was charged what he was quoted close to 400ish for the thermo change + tax is 452. That means 40ish dollar difference, could have come from that "heat issue" check.

Every company does it, including myself. Quote high so when they try and talk you down you can barder. Still make your money and make the customer feel like they got a deal, even if they have been ripped off.

I once quoted a job at 300 over standard price because I didn't want to do it ( roach infested house. ) the person agreed, so I did it and pocketed extra money. After all who here paid sticker price for their car.

[cwp_sedan]

OP definitely got ripped off by MOT. OP should at least ask MOT to refund the coolant flush, as he did not authorize it. He does not have to pay for unauthorized work. OP should also check the hours charged for replacing the thermostat because they seem to be excessive. The customers expect dealers to act ethically and in good faith and do not go to dealers expecting to get ripped off. Don't blame the OP for going to a dealer.

I don't know why some people in this forum needlessly defend sponsors even in indefensible situations.

There is no ACTUAL evidence as to what what charged. We have yet to see an invoice so no one is "taking sides", they are just expressing their opinion. Just like you are doing now. I know the OP says what was supposed to be done, but the invoice doesn't lie, and it shouldn't have changed from when he originally signed it.

Typically you shouldn't be charged for work that isn't authorized but who's to say that the dealer wouldn't include the flush in the repair anyway. The quote was close to $400 and that's what it came out to be. What more can I say about that?

I think we need to see the invoice before anyone can judge whether or not the dealership is ripping off the OP. Is any dealership labour charge high? Yes. If you think that a dealership is going to charge the same as an independent mechanic, you have another thing coming. The price is high, but according to the dealers numbers, which may be way off what it should actually take to repair, are correct by their books, then they are doing things exactly the way they are supposed to be.

[Zoom Zoom Boy]

OP definitely got ripped off by MOT. OP should at least ask MOT to refund the coolant flush, as he did not authorize it. He does not have to pay for unauthorized work. OP should also check the hours charged for replacing the thermostat because they seem to be excessive. The customers expect dealers to act ethically and in good faith and do not go to dealers expecting to get ripped off. Don't blame the OP for going to a dealer.

I don't know why some people in this forum needlessly defend sponsors even in indefensible situations.

Not sure why you think I'm defending MOT, which is an affiliate dealership BTW and not a sponsor. Also, I'm not the most likely candidate to be defending the MOT service department under any circumstance. I wouldn't take my cars there if my life depended on it. I would however, happily buy parts from Joe at MOT or a car from Jeff because at least they are both competent, honest and knowledgeable.

This said, considering the circumstances here, I am being impartial despite my bias towards MOT service and frankly, the OP needs to take more accountability. I have no idea what he did and did not authorize other than what he alludes too, which isn't exactly clear. Nobody to date has even seen his invoice either. The fact of the matter is that the price ended up matching his quote. Typically, they tell you what that quote involves as a matter of course.

The OP even says he doesn't know much about car maintenance and isn't even interested to know more. The service advisor could have even told him/her about the flush and the OP probably wouldn't even know what they were talking about. The OP only seems to be pissed off about the price when they compare it to another person's price for similiar work. At least then they actually bothered to do some research.