Winter Tire Concerns

[sfleck]

Full disclosure - I don't own a Mazda 3, but do on a similar vehicle, a Hyundai Elantra Touring. I can't find a forum for my car, so I thought I would post here.

I recently purchased a set of General Altimax Arctics and had them installed for winter use. The all-seasons on the car were 215/45/17's and the "recommended" winter size by the shop was 195/65/15. This seemed to concur with everything that I read.

No snow yet and all driving on dry roads. Below 80 km/h all seems to be good (I can tell the tires are well balanced and smooth running with great grip) with the winter tires except the steering being a bit off and vague - this was expected. At over 80 km/h on the highway this vagueness REALLY starts to ramp-up to the point that the car feels a bit to a lot, disconnected from the wheels and the road, to the point that this is a bit disconcerting and it feels unsafe. I know these are these are traction tires, but driving along a dry road at 110 km/hr, I feel like I am driving on ball bearings or ice. Minor inputs to the steering wheel seem to do nothing and the car drifts about in the lane. You need to focus on keeping it going straight! I am not sure that I am going to enjoy driving like this for the next 4+ months and can't wait to get the all-seasons back on the car - very stable and predictable with no vagueness in the steering at all!

Is this the way it is with snow tires? Did I get the right snow tires(the online reviews for these tires was over-the-top)? Did I get the right size?

Thanks for the input.

[Default User]

IIRC the GT altimax Arctic winters have a low speed rating - MAX 140-150km/h. Although you're not meeting the max speed rating - at 110km/h you are nearing the tires capabilities

Also, double check the tire PSI. It's not uncommon that the psi will fluctuate quickly with temp changes

[sfleck]

IIRC the GT altimax Arctic winters have a low speed rating - MAX 140-150km/h. Although you're not meeting the max speed rating - at 110km/h you are nearing the tires capabilities

Also, double check the tire PSI. It's not uncommon that the psi will fluctuate quickly with temp changes

Thanks, Eric.

The shop suggested I boost psi from 32 to 37. They said this might stiffen up the side-wall a bit. I did that and it did not change anything - still very vague handling at anything over 80 km/h.

Someone at my office suggested this afternoon that I may have been "better" to go with 16 in tires/wheels perhaps 205/55/16 or whatever the appropriate size would have been. These would have been more expensive, but if they improved the dry road handling and feel from this, I would have gladly paid that difference.

[Fuyuzora]

Welcome to TM3!

It's also still quite warm out... The generally accepted crossover point from summers/3-seasons to winter tires is 7°C. Also note that winter tires tend to be covered in sipes, which increases grip on ice but makes the tire pretty squishy in warm weather.

Soft winter tire compound, combined with warm weather and high speed driving is probably a large part of the blobby/vague feeling on the road. Theoretically, any influences from temperature toward poor steering feel will go away as it gets colder outside.

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EDIT1: If you have a spare moment and wouldn't mind, we have a section here for "Other Cars"... I'm sure some of the members here would be interested to hear what your experiences in the Elantra Touring have been like. Never hurts to have an idea of the other cars on the market!

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EDIT2: The tire size looked right at first glance, but I think the sidewall might be a bit too large. Using the Miata.net Tire Calculator (http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html), I found that, based off of 215/45R17:

195/65R16 = 5.5% too slow

Which means (i) you were actually travelling 116 km/h; and (ii) this is beyond normal "acceptable" deviation of 3% (1% is ideal).

195/60R16 = 2.4% too slow (better)
195/55R16 = 0.7% too fast (best)

So it might be worth thinking about... Dunno how much of a difference this will make to steering feel though.

EDIT3: Disregard everything from EDIT2. Input R16 instead of R15 by mistake.

[Default User]

+1 on the current weather/temp conditions for winters




EDIT2: The tire size looked right at first glance, but I think the sidewall might be a bit too large. Using the Miata.net Tire Calculator (http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html), I found that, based off of 215/45R17:

195/65R16 = 5.5% too slow

Which means (i) you were actually travelling 116 km/h; and (ii) this is beyond normal "acceptable" deviation of 3% (1% is ideal).

195/60R16 = 2.4% too slow (better)
195/55R16 = 0.7% too fast (best)

So it might be worth thinking about... Dunno how much of a difference this will make to steering feel though.

he went to 15's - not 16's
the sizing is right - with only a 1.5% variance

[Fuyuzora]

he went to 15's - not 16's
the sizing is right - with only a 1.5% variance

Derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp. So my first glance was right, and I just spazzed out with the calculator... Thanks for catching that! :blush

[zzz3]

if your ride doesn't improve in the coming weeks (when the temps will average less than 8 as well as running 37psi) then it might be a good idea to sell and try 205/55/16. if the setup is still in good condition, im sure you will have no problem recuperating a decent portion of your costs, if not most of it (test post on kijiji and evaluate the responses). you can also try to buy a used (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?70-Buy-Sell-Trade-Automotive-Parts) or new (http://www.torontomazda3.ca/forum/forumdisplay.php?115-Sponsors) 16" setup since the elantra uses the same exact rim specifications (bore, bolt pattern etc.) and tire size as the mazda3 :)

i have gt altimax arctics as well and was given the option to downsize to 195/65/15 but hesitated because the conventional idea of downsizing 1 size or 2 sizes (especially 2 sizes, as is the case here) doesn't always take into account that one platform (mazda3, elantra) can come in various different configurations and trims which can affect weight, handling and stability (i.e. sedan, hatchback, wagon).

65 profile is a very tall side wall, and in combination with a narrow width of 195 and 'soft' winter tire, relatively speaking as i am used to 225 in the summer and 275 on my dads truck, i felt my hatch would feel more planted with 205/55/16 in the winter which sacrifices the advantages of a narrower tire in slush/snow, but still maintains a somewhat tall profile at 55 (firmer than 65 and can still get through tall snow drifts unlike low profiles).

there is nothing wrong with the tire itself (gt altimax arctic is one of the best, if not the best value), i just think that with the touring's foot print, compared to the elantra sedan, going down 1 size to 205/55/16 might have been the more appropriate route instead of 2 sizes.


tl;dr (for those who are too lazy to read everything)
going to the smallest size just because it is cheaper and can clear the brakes (unfortunately that seems to be the only restriction people go by when downsizing) is not always the best idea.

[bluemazda3]

i have gt altimax arctics as well and was given the option to downsize to 195/65/15 but hesitated because the conventional idea of downsizing 1 size or 2 sizes (especially 2 sizes, as is the case here) doesn't always take into account that one platform (mazda3, elantra) can come in various different configurations and trims which can affect weight, handling and stability (i.e. sedan, hatchback, wagon).

corrected