Clutch Fears (Wear, Costs, timeline etc)

[sudz]

Hey guys...
I think it might be getting close to Clutch replacement time.

I learned how to drive stick on my brand new mazda 3 (2007) Backing it out of Brampton Mazda at closing time in a stupidly tight parking lot.

I'd now like to think that i'm a good standard driver.
Outside of the first week I got the car, I think I've stalled 5-10 times in 5 years. (i can't remember the last time, it was a few years ago to be honest)
I've smelled smoking clutch 3 times ever, Once was a parking garage in toronto, Second was trying to get out of an intersection to avoid an accident (in wrong gear) and third was the one and only time I let my mom drive the car, and she thought 3rd was first.

That being said, I feel like the clutch "action" has changed. I'm finding it more difficult to engage smoothly, like it is inconsistent a shorter "fade in", and that the engage point is getting higher and higher (I feel like if I pushed the pedal in only 2-3 inches, it'd be fully disconnected from the engine)

My assumption: Clutches are auto adjusting, and my clutch has worn to the point where it cant compensate - so I'd bein the last 5-15% of its life?

What My questions are:

First: Generally I've heard that a worn clutch results in a very stiff pedal in our cars - I haven't noticed this. Is the stiff pedal ALWAYS the case?

Second: How much is it to replace the clutch at Dealer (QEW/Budds does all my stuff) Vs Jimmy @ Street performance?

Third: How LONG does it take to change the clutch? (While you wait at Jimmy's? Or QEW for a loaner Vehicle over a few days, etc)

Fourth: Is there any common problems run into when replacing your clutch? That would require parts to order and strand my car at Jimmy's?

Fifth: If I drive the clutch until it starts slipping, I'm assuming I can baby it somewhere if I am careful? Can I drive it for a week? (until a clutch comes in and I can bring it to Jimmy?)


Here's my Dilemma:
I go to the Dealership, not because its cheap (it usually isn't) but because if anything "goes wrong" they have the part on hand, or within 24 hours and give you a rental for things over a certain amount ($300?) And, well, they have Fresh cookies:P. So the key is, No down time, no missed work.

However, Money is tight, I'm saving for a wedding, and Jimmy has the best reviews and almost rivals the experience of Dealers with Mazda3's. BUT, if something goes wrong,and I don't have my car, I don't get paid (on contract) and I can't afford to miss time at work.

what would you do in my shoes?

(I'll be keeping it OEM, I toyed around with lighter Flywheel, but decided its not worth it/not desired)

[sudz]

John Boot Just PM'd Me - Budds (and everyone who works there) is ridiculous (in a good way)
So Second Question is Half done :-P

[Eddie81]

I defently can't answer to all question but one thing I will suggest do your homework and find the best price that there is. I have been doing my stuff with Jimmy. I am sure if you call him up and explain everything to him he will work a good price for you hell he might even throw a rental. I am sure Jimmy would do that work in half a day hell less then that. Call him... Good luck ;)

[sudz]

Anybody? Is there a way to tell your clutch is wearing out, Other than the stiff pedal? There's no slippage yet (done the 3rd gear acceleration thing)

Just wondering if I'm imagining it.

Also, put my summer tires on, which makes noticeable slowdown in acceleration compared to my winters - No slippage

[maz06]

First: Generally I've heard that a worn clutch results in a very stiff pedal in our cars - I haven't noticed this. Is the stiff pedal ALWAYS the case?
The engage point usually gets closer to you

Second: How much is it to replace the clutch at Dealer (QEW/Budds does all my stuff) Vs Jimmy @ Street performance?
Dealer probably a leg and a arm, its not the clutch/flywheel that will cost you its the LABOR.... Can't give out jim's price as it may have gone up or down, but its definitely a lot cheaper then the dealership plus he's done quite a lot of them so you can count on it

Third: How LONG does it take to change the clutch? (While you wait at Jimmy's? Or QEW for a loaner Vehicle over a few days, etc)
Most likely the whole day at jim's in the meantime you can go across the street and rent a car from Budget or Discount

Fourth: Is there any common problems run into when replacing your clutch? That would require parts to order and strand my car at Jimmy's?
Shouldn't flywheel and clutch only, you may want to change transmission oil in the meantime

Fifth: If I drive the clutch until it starts slipping, I'm assuming I can baby it somewhere if I am careful? Can I drive it for a week? (until a clutch comes in and I can bring it to Jimmy?)
For sure, it would suck if you got stranded and require a tow truck.... those things cost too much

[theo575]

how many km's do you have?

I have an 06, used at 88 km, now at 140 km havent noticed any issues with clutch slipping or a hard pedal.

[sudz]

Yeah, I think I might have been imagineing it... Nothing of the sorts, and with my summer tires the load has gotten heavier, with no slippage

Also, 154km, original owner. Learned how to drive on the car.

IMO there's 2 ways to really drive standard:

Gas to XXXXRPM, slowly let out clutch

Or, Slowly let out clutch and apply gas.

I do the latter, which I'd assume is better on clutch wear, as there'd be less heat generated (lower RPM "slippage") and the length of time required to do a smooth start is less than if you're trying to get the wheels driven in first gear at 2000RPM vs 1200 or so.

Granted, I do the gas --> Clutch method when I need/want to get going in a hurry, but the vast majority of my starts (98%+) are relaxed and unhurried.

[Impressive]

Yeah, I think I might have been imagineing it... Nothing of the sorts, and with my summer tires the load has gotten heavier, with no slippage

Also, 154km, original owner. Learned how to drive on the car.

IMO there's 2 ways to really drive standard:

Gas to XXXXRPM, slowly let out clutch

Or, Slowly let out clutch and apply gas.

I do the latter, which I'd assume is better on clutch wear, as there'd be less heat generated (lower RPM "slippage") and the length of time required to do a smooth start is less than if you're trying to get the wheels driven in first gear at 2000RPM vs 1200 or so.

Granted, I do the gas --> Clutch method when I need/want to get going in a hurry, but the vast majority of my starts (98%+) are relaxed and unhurried.

You'd have to make a video or something to actually show you how do it consistently...but I'd say it's probably better if you change your driving habits to the former and get used to letting go of the clutch once you feel the car in motion.

[sportie]

I have an 06 with 183,000 klms on it and my pedal seams stiff to me. I just got the car so I don't have a comparison. I have been driving standard for 20 years and never had this pedal feel before. Also never burned a clutch ever. with many many klms. The engage point seams at the bottom still so not sure what the stiff pedal means for me.

[stock3]

If the clutch isn't slipping and there is no shudder during clutch engagement it is fine, no need to change it. It's that simple.

[sudz]

I feel like I occasionally feel chatter, usually when I let the clutch out slightly slower at highway speeds to avoid a jerky shift if I havent rev matched perfectly. (this is rare)

I fully expect my clutch to be fairly close to worn out. I'll just nurse it until it goes. I would think that it would slip more in 1st and second gear, and I haven't felt that before.

[Zuluwun]

I always thought that it'd be likeliest to slip at high gear, low speed and foot to the floor.

[bubba1983]

Ull know when its on its way out when your rpm's go higher than warranted at your rated speed of driving...so say 50km/hr in the city and revving at a retarded number
Anyone who drives reasonably normal should not wear out a clutch....learning or not. I learned on my dads old car. He had it for 10 years and zero signs of wear. They are built tuff.

[Zuluwun]

Define "normal" lol. No, I'm messin around. I learned on my car after buying it used and my clutch feels just fine at ~140k km.

[sudz]

Well, 5 months later, car is still going.

I had the chance to drive a 2010 GT Hatch 6Speed Manual. I stalled it twice the moment I tried to drive off - the engage point was so vastly different on it I couldn't believe it. (once I realized this I was fine)

I have had no slipping at steady speeds, however... I'm just worried as I need my car every day, paying for a rental while its getting fixed would just rub salt in the wound. Booter Quoted me about 1500 bucks to get it done (after tax, But also back when we got a discount. I don't have 1700 bucks!)

I feel like I can never make a "jerky" shift. it always fades in smoothly. I find it VERY easy to drive. So i'm not sure what I'm complaining about, other than the fact that it has changed significantly since I bought it new.

Meh. I'll update this if any future problems arise.

[stock3]

The clutch will not go over night, unless you do something stupid. If you feel that it will go soon, now is a perfect time to start putting some money away for the job instead of finding a "deal" that may not be needed for thousands of kilometers or ever.

Once the clutch starts slipping slightly you will have plenty of time to arrange an appointment, probably two weeks or more if you're careful with the clutch. It is a day, max, job for any competent mechanic so no rental should be required.

[sarujo]

The OP needs to drop by Street Performance and have a chat with Jimmy. This would also be a good time to start researching possible clutch upgrades when the work is done instead of just replacing with the stock unit.

[sudz]

No need for a clutch Upgrade. I have a CAI, and that's ALL the performance mods i'll be doing. If my first clutch lasted 170k and I learned how to drive on it, I would expect the second one to last that long as well. I highly doubt I'll own this car when/if it hits 340,000km. lol.

But yes, I do agree I need to talk to Jimmy.

[Wes08M3]

$1700 is a ridiculous amount of money to have your clutch replaced. Like others have said, it can be done in 1 full day of work by someone who has experience. So $1700 is kind of high, what is that like 12-13 hours of labour? Shouldn't take that long if you know how to do it.

Definitely shop around - and the Exedy OEM replacement clutch is probably the perfect clutch for you, should you decide to replace it. It's better quality and cheaper than the OEM piece. It's a win win situation, the OEM clutch is made by Exedy it just uses lesser quality materials.

[Cab0oze]

I'm kinda in the same boat, but I bought my speed as the 3rd owner, and it was my first manual so i didn't know any better. Now i'm at 80k, and I find it very hard to make smooth shifts, but I haven't noticed any slipping or anything. Just jerky starts in first gear mainly. I drove 2 other manuals recently and I found they were a million times easier to drive. I'm not sure if the difference is because of the type of transmission or if my clutch is borderline shot.

I figure I'll stick with it the way it is until more severe symptoms appear (to avoid replacing a perfectly good clutch by accident), because replacing the clutch isnt' cheap!

[sudz]

So, The clutch slipped last night, backing up my rather steep driveway.


Tax included in the below prices:

I called Jimmy. he wants 850 in labour, Plus I supply the parts. So total cost would be about 1300 bucks, and I don't know if he'd machine the flywheel while he's at it.
I have a quote from Booter from a long time ago, for $1575 so I'm assuming prices have gone up since then (inflation, etc)
I also have a quote from Mr. Transmission, who are 80% confidant they can finish it in a business day, and are 5 km from my workplace. They want just under $1100

Pros:
Dealership = Peace of mind, 20k warranty (except wear) Possible cheap/free rental?
Jimmy = Better Parts (stage 1)
mr. Tranny = fastest, Cheapest, but unknown (to me) "Luk?" brand OEM clutch. 20k warranty (except wear)

Cons:
Dealership = Price
Jimmy: Pain the ass to get there, price, Warranty, Rental costs.
Mr. Transmission: Has a "canadian tire" factor to it. I kind of wish I drove there for the quote to see what they're shop/staff look like.


I started looking into Luk Clutches, they seem to be pretty well recieved. Some complaints about touchyness during the break in period, but overall, I'm not as afraid of the brand as I was when I talked to him on the phone. Considering I don't track/race/drive like an idiot, I think I shoudl be ok. Anyone else hear of this brand? Seems to be used on a lot of domestics.

If I had the money and time, I think it would be jimmy hands down. Can anyone recommend a good alternative choice?

[Cab0oze]

Honestly its just a mazda 3 and you're not tracking it. Its got a warranty, so if it doesnt work (really your only concern) then take it back.
Convenience and price tells me you should go with Mr Transmission (and if you're concerned about their work, stay with your car and watch... pref. chat with the mechanics)

If the convenience place was expensive I would say for sure go elsewhere, but really I don't see any reason not to.

[Booter22]

do you want me to see if the parts price has changed. who knows it may have gone down, i could also see what the difference would be from oem to stage 1

[Lockdown]

I haven't looked at the set up to see if there is some major hurdle but can't these clutches be replaced in 6-7 hours? In a day should not be an issue. There should be plenty of time for any shop to perform the task in a single day, IF they have the car started first thing. I could see it getting into the evening if you are doing it on your driveway with a jack, beers and a few pizza runs.

If they are 8-% confident that they can finish the job in 1 day. I am 100% confident that they will take 2. Sorry about that but it sounds like something you would tell someone just to get the car in and then give them the bad news at the end of the day.

I'd get your fiance to drive you to work and skip the rental or you drive her, or car pool with someone. You could also schedule it for a weekend or take a half day off on a friday, pick it up Saturday afternoon.

I also highly suggest either a new fly or getting it resurfaced.

[sudz]

John, that would be amazing, But right now I've had the shit kicked out of my wallet.

Mortgage company says "lender pays taxes" so did the lawyer, realtor, and broker.
Get first 830 dollar tax bill from hamilton, Call Mortgage company, "we only pay full year taxes" Sure enough on page 23 of the agreement, in small print, its there.

Of course, this is 2 days after I get a 500 dollar bill from a utility company that failed to charge me a connection/deposit fee.
Which is, of course, 3 days after I put a 1000 dollar deposit on a venue for the Wedding.

Ate through my "rainy day" fund pretty damn fast. I'm glad it was late and nobody heard when I realized the clutch was slipping.


Best quote so far is from megan's brothers "friend" PJ Automotive. 960 cash, With fluid change, resurfacing if needed. Also said he could do it in a day... but I've never met the guy and his business card has a flaming skull and 2 flaming cards on it. (i'll let you draw your own conclusions) But... he's in hamilton.

I did the 3rd gear "pull" on my way home - 40kph to 120 in 3rd gear... no slipping. Really weird! A clutch... spins the same way regardless. My only theory: with the 3rd gear pull, the clutch had already clamped. THEN the gass is applied. With accelerating (or reversing up a hill) the clutch was being let out. Since it was already slipping from being partially engaged, I am wondering if it just didn't have enough left on it to clamp/lock and counteract the slippage?

Either way, I found out today that I have 4.5 vacation days left this year. So, A rental won't be required I guess. Just a shame to use them for the car instead of spending time with family up north at christmas time.

I'd normally be excited - new clutch! Upgrade time! just... the WORST timing. lol.

I even had 1000 bucks set aside for it... and then the tax man came along and raped me.

Something to put on the blog, lol.

[Booter22]

i know your pain. house taxes :bang and we just got our notice that over the next four years it will be going.. you got it.. up. yay! let me put some numbers together tomorrow and see what i can do. did you only find the clutch slipping that one time in reverse? has it not slipped since?

[Impressive]

John, that would be amazing, But right now I've had the shit kicked out of my wallet.

Mortgage company says "lender pays taxes" so did the lawyer, realtor, and broker.
Get first 830 dollar tax bill from hamilton, Call Mortgage company, "we only pay full year taxes" Sure enough on page 23 of the agreement, in small print, its there.

Of course, this is 2 days after I get a 500 dollar bill from a utility company that failed to charge me a connection/deposit fee.
Which is, of course, 3 days after I put a 1000 dollar deposit on a venue for the Wedding.

Ate through my "rainy day" fund pretty damn fast. I'm glad it was late and nobody heard when I realized the clutch was slipping.


Best quote so far is from megan's brothers "friend" PJ Automotive. 960 cash, With fluid change, resurfacing if needed. Also said he could do it in a day... but I've never met the guy and his business card has a flaming skull and 2 flaming cards on it. (i'll let you draw your own conclusions) But... he's in hamilton.

I did the 3rd gear "pull" on my way home - 40kph to 120 in 3rd gear... no slipping. Really weird! A clutch... spins the same way regardless. My only theory: with the 3rd gear pull, the clutch had already clamped. THEN the gass is applied. With accelerating (or reversing up a hill) the clutch was being let out. Since it was already slipping from being partially engaged, I am wondering if it just didn't have enough left on it to clamp/lock and counteract the slippage?

Either way, I found out today that I have 4.5 vacation days left this year. So, A rental won't be required I guess. Just a shame to use them for the car instead of spending time with family up north at christmas time.

I'd normally be excited - new clutch! Upgrade time! just... the WORST timing. lol.

I even had 1000 bucks set aside for it... and then the tax man came along and raped me.

Something to put on the blog, lol.

Maybe you can tough it out until Christmas time and get your car fixed while you're away spending time with the family...?

win/win!

[avakim]

did you only find the clutch slipping that one time in reverse? has it not slipped since?

+1. Make sure you really do have a problem before spending time/money fixing it. I've got an '01 protege with 327000km on it, and it's never required any clutch work. (Though I bought it in 04 with 75000km on it, so I couldn't swear that the previous owner didn't replace the clutch, but with only 75000km, it seems unlikely.)

[sudz]

Its only slipped the once. The engage point is dangerously close to "all the way out" I know it'll need replacing, it'll just make it easier if I can put my Christmas bonus to it.

I did that 3rd gear pull from 30-120 and it didn't slip at all, but I have to be careful when I drive, Letting it rev match pretty well perfectly with every shift. If I don't, the car shakes/catters.

This didn't happen overnight or anything, (considering the original post is from march... lol)


Booter, as for the taxes, I bought my house 3 months ago, I literally got my MPAC assessment 2 days ago. Value of the property is 15 grand more than I paid for it, and rising another 21,000 over the next 4 years. Yay Taxes!

[sudz]

so Hamilton Mechanic has quoted 960 all in. Going to wait and see if I can nurse it until Christmas Bonus comes in.

He said it'd take him a max of one day to get the parts, and then a day to install the clutch. So theoretically, it could be ready in 24 hours...but to budget 48 in case the part isn't local when it fails.

[Lockdown]

Why not order the parts and keep them on hand till you need them?
that way it lessens the hit all at once on your wallet and less down time

[sudz]

I was definitely thinking of doing that. Just waiting for a few people to get back to me with quotes.

Anyone know if the cheapest sponsor for a Stage1 Exedy Clutch Kit?

[midnightfxgt]

I think Nextmod sells a lot of Exedy. Check with Rick at Garage16 also.

Def make sure to either buy a new flywheel (Lightweight) or have the stock one machined. It will add to the downtime possibly, but it's the best way to do it!

-John

[jonjon72]

Nextmod got me the best price on the exedy stage 2 clutch and flywheel when I had my 3. As someone mentioned. Get both done at the same time to save on labour costs.