Pulling right after alignment

[tpirovol]

Hi Everyone,

2 weeks ago I had a leaking rear shock and had it replaced. At the same time I had all 4 brakes an rotors done. This Saturday I had my tires replaced and today went to get an alignment. Right when I sat in the car I noticed the steering wheel is not 100% straight. If I Turn left and go straight the wheel comes back slightly to the right. If I turn right the steering comes back but stays quite a bit right. If I drive in a straight line and put the steering wheel straight it pulls left. If I drive straight it goes straight but the steering wheel is a slight bit to the right.

I am bringing it back tomorrow but I thought with these new machines it is dummie proof. I don't remember having this issue before and I think I would have noticed it.

Is this normal or a bad alignment job?
Thanks T
Mazda 3 GT 2008

[Reddie1337]

Hi Everyone,

2 weeks ago I had a leaking rear shock and had it replaced. At the same time I had all 4 brakes an rotors done. This Saturday I had my tires replaced and today went to get an alignment. Right when I sat in the car I noticed the steering wheel is not 100% straight. If I Turn left and go straight the wheel comes back slightly to the right. If I turn right the steering comes back but stays quite a bit right. If I drive in a straight line and put the steering wheel straight it pulls left. If I drive straight it goes straight but the steering wheel is a slight bit to the right.

I am bringing it back tomorrow but I thought with these new machines it is dummie proof. I don't remember having this issue before and I think I would have noticed it.

Is this normal or a bad alignment job?
Thanks T
Mazda 3 GT 2008

I actually had mind done at Kieswetter Mazda in Kitchener, and mine does the same thing. Its just a slight touch off to the right, bugs the hell out of me... :(

[tpirovol]

Just went for a drive and it is driving me crazy! If the road leans right in 50 feet I will be on the shoulder. If I am on a straight road I am going right and if i am on a road leaning left the car is going straight and the steering wheel is straight. Pisses me off because it was perfect before they touched it. I did it because they claim I needed it.

Thanks T

[trulankan]

i had mine done at Altech and it was/is still fine to me. I never head any issues with steering before or after I got my car lowered. Didn't they take it for a test drive after the alignment? I'm sure they would have noticed it if they did.

[Hyperion]

Take a cruise down to limitless, I can't recommend them enough.

[Wes08M3]

They should've driven it after doing the work. Lazy...

Maybe they forgot to lock, or didn't properly lock the steering wheel in a straight position before they started making adjustments. If they didn't lock it correctly, they could've set everything up with the steering wheel off to the left. Definitely bring it back and take someone for a drive to show them.

[greaves82]

if your not happy with the results then take it back

[tpirovol]

Bringing it back tomorrow. The problem is they did it for free because of the other work. When I called they said I need to wait until the guy comes in tomorrow. To be honest I would rather have someone else do it this time since it is so bad. Can't believe a dealership would let an alignment go of the lot like that.

I have been reading that i shoud have a full tank of gas and an empty trunk. Is this true? if so I only had half a tank and the trunk had shit in it.

Let me know
Thanks T

[Wes08M3]

That stuff is very minor but if you want to be as particular as you can be, make sure to empty the trunk and fill it up with gas first. It can't hurt anything.

[silverstarmazda]

i got mine done at KSL auto. 60 bucks and it seems alright

[tpirovol]

Hi Everyone,

Just got back any they re-did the alignment. They told me it was still a little off but my camber is off and they cannot fix it. To be honest it is 90% better but not 100% I am just wondering if this is true and can it be fixed by more experienced alignment places?

Thanks Thttp://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/571/photo7n.jpg/
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[Wes08M3]

Looks as if everything is within their specified range so I don't know why they're telling you it's "out" when their own sheet says its within spec... -1.2 degrees of camber really isn't that much anyway, it's approaching the limit but it's not bad enough to have significant negative effects.

As far as I know, the camber is adjustable to some extent in the front, but it's a bitch to do so they were probably too lazy. The rear is not adjustable without adjustable camber arms, I believe.

[silverstarmazda]

lol my camber is off and out of spec and it doesn seems to pull anywhere... however it does dip right slightly but thats cauze its the crown of the road... i head camber cant be fixed on these cars... but im not sure. other cars use shims to correct camber

[tmpz]

Buy and install a camber kit if you don't have it already.

[tpirovol]

To be honest I am just being picky now. I remember it not having this issue but then again I was not looking or did not notice maybe. Basically on a straight road it has a very slight pull. Obviously this is then amplified when I am driving on our Toronto roads that in scarbrough have a high incline on most roads. I am not sure if I should be this picky now and maybe I am being exessive.

The guy in the shop told me not to worry and that my tires will not wear incorrectly. Is this true? Should I take it somewhere else or should I just live with it.

Scenarios
Slight incline left: Car goes almost straight with a slight slight pull right
Straight: The car will go almost straight with a very slight pull left
Slight incline Right: The care will pull a slight to the right but not crazy as before.

Thoughts?

[silverstarmazda]

Buy and install a camber kit if you don't have it already.

not for the front

[silverstarmazda]

To be honest I am just being picky now. I remember it not having this issue but then again I was not looking or did not notice maybe. Basically on a straight road it has a very slight pull. Obviously this is then amplified when I am driving on our Toronto roads that in scarbrough have a high incline on most roads. I am not sure if I should be this picky now and maybe I am being exessive.

The guy in the shop told me not to worry and that my tires will not wear incorrectly. Is this true? Should I take it somewhere else or should I just live with it.

Scenarios
Slight incline left: Car goes almost straight with a slight slight pull right
Straight: The car will go almost straight with a very slight pull left
Slight incline Right: The care will pull a slight to the right but not crazy as before.

Thoughts?

your car should not be pulling to the left into on comming traffic...

[tpirovol]

Sorry my bad

Straight: The car will go almost straight with a very slight pull right

[silverstarmazda]

Sorry my bad

Straight: The car will go almost straight with a very slight pull right

oh thats normal... its the crown in the road.

[tpirovol]

So bascially if the car is on a dead straight road it should not go arrow straight but rather pull a little right?

[S.F.W.]

So bascially if the car is on a dead straight road it should not go arrow straight but rather pull a little right?
yes

[silverstarmazda]

the road crowns so that rain water drains to the sides of the road.

[Marta]

yes

+1

[trulankan]

Buy and install a camber kit if you don't have it already.

u dont need a camber kit...you are within spec for everything. You may need it if you lower the car tho. I'm off spec (by a little bit) after I lowered but they said my tires should last awhile. I gawked at the price for the kit + labour. Anyway, maybe its a steering issue?

[tpirovol]

Just to confirm even though my Camber is off it is within margins so my tires will wear evenly? I ask because I just spent $700 on new tires and want to ensure they wear evenly and not prematurely? Lastly is there anything on the report that would indicate an issue?

Bringing it to Pat at Altec on Saturday to check everything and see if there is anything he can do. Anyone have experience with them?
Thanks T

[jonjon72]

Just to confirm even though my Camber is off it is within margins so my tires will wear evenly? I ask because I just spent $700 on new tires and want to ensure they wear evenly and not prematurely? Lastly is there anything on the report that would indicate an issue?

Bringing it to Pat at Altec on Saturday to check everything and see if there is anything he can do. Anyone have experience with them?
Thanks T

Took my 3 to Pat while I had it and still go there with my Genesis. They do great work and worth my drive from Richmond Hill

[trulankan]

Just to confirm even though my Camber is off it is within margins so my tires will wear evenly? I ask because I just spent $700 on new tires and want to ensure they wear evenly and not prematurely? Lastly is there anything on the report that would indicate an issue?

Bringing it to Pat at Altec on Saturday to check everything and see if there is anything he can do. Anyone have experience with them?
Thanks T

well Pat quoted me around $450 for the camber kit + install so I said nah considering I can prob get new tires for that price from a buddy of mine. I'm off spec by a little bit and Pat fixed my toe and said that the tires should last for almost the same amount of time as normal so I shouldnt worry too much. Since you are within spec you should be fine if u have good tires.

[trulankan]

i'll see how my tires hold up and get a camber kit in the future if needed. I may end up changing my suspension next year so it wouldnt be worth getting the kit now cause my numbers will change if I do

[silverstarmazda]

a slightly off spec camber shouldnt effect how bad the tire wears... as long as its not nuts your better off worrying about the tire pressure. if its a very visable camber then it might wear out a bit faster on the inside. im lowered on prokits with no camber kit and had my tires for about 30,000 km and they show no signs of camber wear. however i should rotate them since the front ones are balding faster than the rears...

[tpirovol]

I have been reading and actually told that it could be my tires. Bringing them back to Allen this weekend to have them check and rotate my front tires. If they are good then I am heading to Altech to see what they can do. Lets hope by Saturday I have an answer to this pulling.

For some reason there is a lot of talk about the Continental ExtremeContact DWS pulling to the left because of the tread pattern.

Thanks T

[silverstarmazda]

check the tread directions and air pressures. air pressure should be checked right before an alignment everytime. however, because some mechanics become so good at the job, they skip the tire pressure and assume its right. sometimes tire pressure doesnt matter though, and sometimes it makes a world of difference. all depends on what tire you have

[tpirovol]

check the tread directions and air pressures. air pressure should be checked right before an alignment everytime. however, because some mechanics become so good at the job, they skip the tire pressure and assume its right. sometimes tire pressure doesnt matter though, and sometimes it makes a world of difference. all depends on what tire you have

Should it be what the tire says or what the our car is suppose to be ie 32?

[Wes08M3]

DO NOT fill it to the pressure the tire says. That is the maximum pressure the tire is rated to handle.

Fill the tire to the spec that is given on the door jamb. I find many people think you should fill your tires to whatever is written on the tire, this is completely wrong.

There are certain times when adjusting your pressures from the spec given can be beneficial, like tracking your car. But for daily driving stick to what the spec says +\- a few PSI.

[silverstarmazda]

fill the tire about 5psi lower than what the tire actually says. the spec on the door is usually there for a specific tire size and for the wheel it came with. the spec on the door also keeps the TPMS from going off. if you have an after market setup, i would just lower the pressure from the tire.

example: my door says to fill up to 35psi. i have an aftermarket setup with a tire that has a max of 50psi. i fill my tire 43-45 psi all around. yes its prtty high, but i get better milage out of it. talk to your alignment mechanic, they should know what to do. my track psi setup is actually 40 in the front and 45 in the back

[tpirovol]

Perfect thanks that is what I figured. After reading many threads I think it might actually be the tires. I have been reading my exact scenario and many have said the same thing. Had 2 or 3 alignment and the pull is still there put new tires on and it is gone. Other have said they found the issue with radial pull in the tire. Bringing the tires back on Saturday to have them put on the road force machine and then swapped left to right on the front. If that goes well then I am heading to Altech for another alignment.

One thing that is weird is that Mazda is telling me my camber is off. If I look at the alignment sheet it shows that it is correct. The steering wheel is a slight bit off to the right for center. When I put the steering wheel straight it goes slightly left. When I put the steering wheel slightly to the right it goes straight. To me this seems like when they did my alignment they did not put the steering wheel straight. They claim they did the second time but they said my camber is the reason they cannot put my steering wheel straight. Could this really be the camber or were they to lazy to fix it correctly?

I would have thought if my camber was off my steering wheel would be straight but the car would pull to the right or left? As you can tell this is driving me nutz!
Thanks T

[tpirovol]

One last question with asymmetric tires can I swap the two front around?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Continental&tireModel=ExtremeWinterContact

[Wes08M3]

fill the tire about 5psi lower than what the tire actually says. the spec on the door is usually there for a specific tire size and for the wheel it came with. the spec on the door also keeps the TPMS from going off. if you have an after market setup, i would just lower the pressure from the tire.

example: my door says to fill up to 35psi. i have an aftermarket setup with a tire that has a max of 50psi. i fill my tire 43-45 psi all around. yes its prtty high, but i get better milage out of it. talk to your alignment mechanic, they should know what to do. my track psi setup is actually 40 in the front and 45 in the back

45 PSI???? That's way too high on a stock set-up to be driving daily... He's going to wear the tires out unevenly. I know you have an aftermarket set-up but I don't think he does. His tires are the stock 205/50R17 size.

The spec they put on the door is based on the specifics of the car (curb weight, suspension geometry, etc.) and the specific size of the tire, which he has not differentiated from. Why should he be putting his tire pressure 13 PSI higher than the spec says? That will do nothing but give him maybe a few more km per tank and wear out his tires much faster, negating any of the gas savings.

Also, '04-'11 Canadian models don't have TPMS.

[Wes08M3]

One last question with asymmetric tires can I swap the two front around?

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Continental&tireModel=ExtremeWinterContact

Yes you can.

[silverstarmazda]

45 PSI???? That's way too high on a stock set-up to be driving daily... He's going to wear the tires out unevenly. I know you have an aftermarket set-up but I don't think he does. His tires are the stock 205/50R17 size.

The spec they put on the door is based on the specifics of the car (curb weight, suspension geometry, etc.) and the specific size of the tire, which he has not differentiated from. Why should he be putting his tire pressure 13 PSI higher than the spec says? That will do nothing but give him maybe a few more km per tank and wear out his tires much faster, negating any of the gas savings.

Also, '04-'11 Canadian models don't have TPMS.

yupp, thats absolutely right, 45 is too high for stock setup. depending on the tire because some tires require higher psi to keep the sidewalls from flexing.

[tpirovol]

Nope had my tires always at 32 like the door says. Any comments on the rest of the issue?

[trulankan]

yupp, thats absolutely right, 45 is too high for stock setup. depending on the tire because some tires require higher psi to keep the sidewalls from flexing.

do u have like 18-inch tires/rims? thats soo high...my door says 32 psi lol

[silverstarmazda]

do u have like 18-inch tires/rims? thats soo high...my door says 32 psi lol

17 inch with kumho asx rated at 50 psi max. i do some pretty harsh driving and want to get as much milage out of the tires as possible. no uneven wear or problems even with the camber on the back. the only problem is (to me) is that the tires are too wide in my opinion. they are 225/45/17 while they should be 215/45/17. my tires rub and cut

[Wes08M3]

Nope had my tires always at 32 like the door says. Any comments on the rest of the issue?

I think you have set out a good plan of action for yourself. Try and switch the tires around and if that doesn't fix it for you, bring it to a good alignment shop and see what they say.

They may have just been lazy or incompetent at Mazda, it's hard to say. Their logic seems a little suspect but it's hard to know for sure.

[trulankan]

17 inch with kumho asx rated at 50 psi max. i do some pretty harsh driving and want to get as much milage out of the tires as possible. no uneven wear or problems even with the camber on the back. the only problem is (to me) is that the tires are too wide in my opinion. they are 225/45/17 while they should be 215/45/17. my tires rub and cut

thats not good lol its dangerous actually

[Shawn]

One thing that is weird is that Mazda is telling me my camber is off. If I look at the alignment sheet it shows that it is correct. The steering wheel is a slight bit off to the right for center. When I put the steering wheel straight it goes slightly left. When I put the steering wheel slightly to the right it goes straight. To me this seems like when they did my alignment they did not put the steering wheel straight. They claim they did the second time but they said my camber is the reason they cannot put my steering wheel straight. Could this really be the camber or were they to lazy to fix it correctly?

This is bullshit lazy tech. Centering the steering wheel is tie rod only, if the rest of the spec are factory.

[silverstarmazda]

thats not good lol its dangerous actually

lol thats what i thought too. until i took it auto crossing twice lol

[tpirovol]

Hi Everyone,

Just got back from a day of trouble shooting my issues. I first went to Simplytire who checked the balancing again and rotated the tires. They did not find anything wrong and told me everything looks fine. I drove away and even though the tires were rotated in the front it did not fix my issue. I then went to Pat at Altech and he test drove the car and brought it right into the shop. He told me my steering wheel is off and that I needed a slight alignment to the back and the front. He put it on the machine and confirmed his thoughts. He adjusted the car even though the bastards at Mazda almost completely stripped my front passanger bolt for adjustement. Took it for a drive and now the care drives straight and true with a straight steering wheel.

Pat is a true pro who knows his stuff and takes his time to explain what is wrong and what he is doing to fix it. Only issue I found when I was driving home is that when I am slowing down from 75km to 65km my car has a slight vibration/whoble. Spoke to pat on the highway and he told me it is most likely an issue with the balancing. other then that car is finally driving good. Going to bring it back to Allen next weekend to have them check it out again.

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/9563/align3.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/align3.jpg/) Uploaded with ImageShack.us (http://imageshack.us)

Thank you to everyone that recommended Pat he is a true professional.

[silverstarmazda]

typical dealership quality. the thing is they get bored of working on the same car over and over again. then the jobs start to get sloppy untill the next employees meeting. i use to take a while to do an oil change but i never had anyone come back. while my co-workers get the car in a and out as fast as they could. glad to hear everything is pointing in the right direction

[Wes08M3]

Considering the alignment was free, the quality of their work doesn't surprise me one bit.

As for the vibration, I somewhat doubt it's a balancing issue since you just had the balance checked that day. There shouldn't have been any reason the balance would be thrown off in a matter of hours.

If you have a torque wrench or know someone that does, check to make sure all your lug nuts are torqued properly.

[silverstarmazda]

Considering the alignment was free, the quality of their work doesn't surprise me one bit.

As for the vibration, I somewhat doubt it's a balancing issue since you just had the balance checked that day. There shouldn't have been any reason the balance would be thrown off in a matter of hours.

If you have a torque wrench or know someone that does, check to make sure all your lug nuts are torqued properly.

yeah, but mechanics get paid flat rate. theyre going to get paid for whatever job they get. how much per hour is just different. weather its a warranty work or and overhaul. but yea... i totally know whats its like getting warranty work, doesnt pay for shit. plus they dont want to have the car come back in to be worked on for free again. time is money for dealership mechanics. if the OP is near my area, i can check his torque real quick.

[Wes08M3]

yeah, but mechanics get paid flat rate. theyre going to get paid for whatever job they get. how much per hour is just different. weather its a warranty work or and overhaul. but yea... i totally know whats its like getting warranty work, doesnt pay for shit. plus they dont want to have the car come back in to be worked on for free again. time is money for dealership mechanics. if the OP is near my area, i can check his torque real quick.

Yeah but you never know, if the advisor told the tech that they're throwing in a free alignment, he could've been told to do a quick adjustment and didn't give 2 ***ks. Or the tech just wanted to get it done as fast as possible so he could move on to the next job. Maybe they were going to claim the alignment under warranty and the tech wasn't going to get paid sh*t for it so he did it as fast as possible.

Who knows, there's always sketchy things going on behind the scenes.

[silverstarmazda]

Yeah but you never know, if the advisor told the tech that they're throwing in a free alignment, he could've been told to do a quick adjustment and didn't give 2 ***ks. Or the tech just wanted to get it done as fast as possible so he could move on to the next job. Maybe they were going to claim the alignment under warranty and the tech wasn't going to get paid sh*t for it so he did it as fast as possible.

Who knows, there's always sketchy things going on behind the scenes.

they might not have done it at all!! ive seen techs just leave the car at the very far end of the shop where the customer cant see then bring it back out and say the job is done. they do this while theyre working on another car too to get as much time stamps as possible. once we ran out of tire nitrogen for about 2 months.... needless to say, customers didnt get the "nitrogen" they ordered...with private shops its safer in my opinion. because any screw ups put theyre entire business on the line.

[Wes08M3]

^ very true. I've witnessed things like that on many occasions as well. It's quite disheartening.

The one I hate the most, is when you bring in your own quality synthetic oil and the tech "forgets" to actually use it and just puts it in his tool box and fills the car with the bulk dino oil.

Needless to say, I do my own oil changes lol. Sorry for taking this a bit off topic.

[tpirovol]

To be honest I want to be really pissed but at the same token they did it for free. If I paid I would have been all over there ass's and would have made them do it 100 times over if needed. The thing that really pisses me off is that they told me they could not straighten my steering wheel because my camber was off and it would cost $400 to fix. They screwed the thread on the front right alignment bar and did not touch the rear at all. They should have just said we will do it for half off or full price not just give me a shit job. It is a shame they have an amazing alignment machine with incompetent lazy people using it.

As of the wheel shake it is very very minor and really not a big issue. Going to head over to my cousins house tomorrow to check the torque on the bolts. Another thing I noticed when I got home was the ride was bumpier today. I checked the psi when I got home and it is 35psi instead of 32. Will adjust that tomorrow and see if it makes a difference.

In the end if you are a Mazda 3 owner stay away from Scarborough Mazda at the very least for alignments.
Thanks T

[silverstarmazda]

^ very true. I've witnessed things like that on many occasions as well. It's quite disheartening.

The one I hate the most, is when you bring in your own quality synthetic oil and the tech "forgets" to actually use it and just puts it in his tool box and fills the car with the bulk dino oil.

Needless to say, I do my own oil changes lol. Sorry for taking this a bit off topic.

lol i remember a co-worker saying "they dont need it, the regular stuff is good enough." i wish i had my own driveway (apartment) that way i can do all the fluid and paint projects i want. i have to go to a friends place to do those projects and the most time consuming part is the clean up lol. sad to see the trade becoming such a dishonest place.... as if we dont have a bad reputation already by being "money grabbing grease monkey's".

[silverstarmazda]

To be honest I want to be really pissed but at the same token they did it for free. If I paid I would have been all over there ass's and would have made them do it 100 times over if needed. The thing that really pisses me off is that they told me they could not straighten my steering wheel because my camber was off and it would cost $400 to fix. They screwed the thread on the front right alignment bar and did not touch the rear at all. They should have just said we will do it for half off or full price not just give me a shit job. It is a shame they have an amazing alignment machine with incompetent lazy people using it.

As of the wheel shake it is very very minor and really not a big issue. Going to head over to my cousins house tomorrow to check the torque on the bolts. Another thing I noticed when I got home was the ride was bumpier today. I checked the psi when I got home and it is 35psi instead of 32. Will adjust that tomorrow and see if it makes a difference.

In the end if you are a Mazda 3 owner stay away from Scarborough Mazda at the very least for alignments.
Thanks T

as far as tire pressure goes....some people run different set up than others. so im not even going to start that argument here. if u havnt change the tire oem wheel setup yet, stick to the door sticker. if your running an aftermarket setup run what doesnt make it flat but also dont go over the tire psi number. anything in between is up to you. just make sure both front are the same to each other and both rear are the same to each other

[Wes08M3]

You also did just get new shocks in the rear right? Maybe you're just not used to how it feels yet. Or now that the shocks are new in the rear, you're noticing that the struts in the front are getting soft.

[tpirovol]

I think I am just being over sensitive with the everything now. The problem is since starting my new job 2 years ago I only drive less then 5km to work compared 50km. I am assuming the wheel shake if it was attributed to something I did yesterday would be more likely the balancing rather then the alignment?

As for my alignment at Mazda I guess I got what what I paid for! One thing I have found with car servicing such as Mazda and Toyota is that they don't give a S**t about there customers when it comes to service. Other companies would bend over backwards to make it right.

SilverstarMazda I see you live in scarborough as well where abouts?

Thanks T

[silverstarmazda]

I think I am just being over sensitive with the everything now. The problem is since starting my new job 2 years ago I only drive less then 5km to work compared 50km. I am assuming the wheel shake if it was attributed to something I did yesterday would be more likely the balancing rather then the alignment?

As for my alignment at Mazda I guess I got what what I paid for! One thing I have found with car servicing such as Mazda and Toyota is that they don't give a S**t about there customers when it comes to service. Other companies would bend over backwards to make it right.

SilverstarMazda I see you live in scarborough as well where abouts?

Thanks T

huh? where abouts? umm...north scarborough??? lol sry i dont get your question ahaha.

[tpirovol]

I ask because I live in Scarborough as well.

[silverstarmazda]

I ask because I live in Scarborough as well.

YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAHHHHHH, there are a couple of members here that dwell in scarbro.