View Full Version : Unhappy with new front speakerrs / amp: vocals are high or clear
I meant to say vocals are NOT high or clear in the heading.
I replaced by my front coaxial JL speakers with Focal components and a 2 channel Amp (MB Quart 100 RMS per ch.). The sound quality is really bad compared to before (JL fronts and no amp) . Mids and highs are flat, muffled and not very clear. Definitely not like the Focals I have listened to. Focals treble is generall little bright but mine is exact opposite. I doubt the speakers are defective. I played with my aftermarket head unit's audio controls and increased the treble and mids but I am not satisfied. I cannot adjust crossovers because the installer put them inside the door. The installer suggests I put a more powerful amp or a Line Driver to boost the signal. He said he could install a 'Line Driver' at the amp to boost the HU's signal for $200. The line driver he has is this: http://www.gotwirez.com/p/125/lcdss10-2.The speakers are here (http://www.focal.com/en/car-audio-sound/haut-parleurs/kits-2-voies-se-pare-es/165-a1.php)
I appreciate any helpful suggestions. I really don't know what to do than hire another installer to trouble shoot.
stevenma188
12-07-2012, 07:54 PM
I think you need to pull the door panel off and adjust your crossover/amp settings.
I think the "Line Driver" is a cash grab, and I would definitely adjust the crossover/settings on the amp before putting more money into anything.
leecheefoto
12-07-2012, 08:31 PM
I think you need to pull the door panel off and adjust your crossover/amp settings.
I think the "Line Driver" is a cash grab, and I would definitely adjust the crossover/settings on the amp before putting more money into anything.
+1
Leave your head unit flat first
Then adjust the amp and the crossover at the same time. If the sound quality is near what you're preference is, then make adjustments to your head unit.
Default User
12-07-2012, 09:08 PM
Who installed it?
20Hz Audio. The owner calls himself the best installer in Canada but he didn't do the job - his installers did it. I went there for convenience - closer to where I was working . Could it be a wiring issue like out of phase or not getting enough current to amp because of bad amp wire? Amp manufacturer recommends 4 gauge wire but he probably didn't use 4 gauge. I saw the wiring kit he had. It didn't indicate the gauge just the watts.
stevenma188
12-07-2012, 09:26 PM
The wire should say what gauge it is directly on the sleeve.
S.F.W.
12-07-2012, 09:29 PM
If someone has to call themselves the best installer, it means they are not the best.
leecheefoto
12-07-2012, 09:37 PM
Look at your battery or the amp and see what wire the gauge is, all wires must have some lettering.
Could it possibly be your amp as well?
Look at your battery or the amp and see what wire the gauge is, all wires must have some lettering.
Could it possibly be your amp as well?
Will do. Amp is brand new so are the speakers. Amp is reasonable powerful (100 watts per ch.) and good brand name.
midnitehour
12-07-2012, 10:17 PM
what head unit are you using?
Are you sure the headunit isn't doing a bandpass aka setting the output to subwoofer?
Try hooking up a different audio source like an ipod to the amp and see if the sound is still flat.
If it sounds better the issue is the deck, if not the crossover is likely the problem.
perhaps the woofer and tweeter wires got switched.
what head unit are you using?
Are you sure the headunit isn't doing a bandpass aka setting the output to subwoofer?
Try hooking up a different audio source like an ipod to the amp and see if the sound is still flat.
If it sounds better the issue is the deck, if not the crossover is likely the problem.
perhaps the woofer and tweeter wires got switched.
Head unit is a Kenwood DPX308U. It has a setting called 'Switch Preouts/ that switches preouts between rear output and sub output. I selected sub output. This this what you are referring to. Is switching preouts to subwoofer wrong?
How do I hook up a Ipod to the amp?
leecheefoto
12-07-2012, 11:38 PM
Head unit is a Kenwood DPX308U. It has a setting called 'Switch Preouts/ that switches preouts between rear output and sub output. I selected sub output. This this what you are referring to. Is switching preouts to subwoofer wrong?
How do I hook up a Ipod to the amp?
3.5mm to rca cable.
peterm15
12-07-2012, 11:39 PM
Try switching the pre out then. Seems like it could be the problem.
My issue is they didn't seem to test it before allowing you to leave.
I listen with them and complained. The installer admitted it was pretty bad but blamed it on the sub and offered to put the old speakers back. The owner said he cannot hear anything wrong - he installed the equipment I gave him correctly.
I saw this in a review: "My only complaint was the tweeter , they are not mark very clear which wire is positive or negative , so I call tech support and I was told the wire with the red stripe was the positive ". Could it be a wire mix up like in the reviewer's case?
stevenma188
12-08-2012, 12:42 AM
^How would we know? We would just be speculating. Why don't you pull the panel off and check?
^How would we know? We would just be speculating. Why don't you pull the panel off and check?
You are absolutely right. I have to find another installer because I don't know how to do it. I have seen this (http://www.mazda3club.com/showthread.php?t=41318) but not confident enough to try.
peterm15
12-08-2012, 01:24 AM
It's easier then your making it out to be. You do not need another installer to do this.
If you would like some help I'll offer. But your scared for nothing. Especially since its been removed before. It's VERY easy to do, if you have manual widows it's slightly more difficult but still easy with an $8 tool from Canadian tire.
If they didn't bother making sure it sounded right it's highly unlikely they soldered wires which means you can easily unplug and switch polarity.
stevenma188
12-08-2012, 02:33 AM
Depending on where you are, I'm sure there is a member that is nearby that can help you out with this.
I am in Brampton. If anyone can help I would really appreciate it.
It's easier then your making it out to be. You do not need another installer to do this.
If you would like some help I'll offer. But your scared for nothing. Especially since its been removed before. It's VERY easy to do, if you have manual widows it's slightly more difficult but still easy with an $8 tool from Canadian tire.
If they didn't bother making sure it sounded right it's highly unlikely they soldered wires which means you can easily unplug and switch polarity.
Thanks for your offer to help. They did soldered the wire. Installer told me. Will PM you.
I got someone to adjust the amp setting and changed HU's audio controls. It is lot better now and I am happy with the set up. Thanks peterm15 for your offer to help.
peterm15
12-08-2012, 08:41 PM
No problem.
Just goes to show you. The shop seems a little shady when all it took was an amp adjustment.
Default User
12-08-2012, 11:26 PM
I've met and worked with Frankie from 20hz a few times - he's a good guy and knows his shit. He has put together A LOT of crazy builds over the years - which have brought so much media attention, that may have swelled his ego.
The shop itself is very good.
The only thing I can see happening is that the installer claims (or thought) he did all the right steps - but clearly missed the tuning adjustment part LOL. Frankie can only go by what the installer claims - without physically re-tracing all his steps.
Not trying to say that this install was acceptable - just don't think it should get the negative judgements its receiving.
peterm15
12-09-2012, 12:06 AM
I've met and worked with Frankie from 20hz a few times - he's a good guy and knows his shit. He has put together A LOT of crazy builds over the years - which have brought so much media attention, that may have swelled his ego.
The shop itself is very good.
The only thing I can see happening is that the installer claims (or thought) he did all the right steps - but clearly missed the tuning adjustment part LOL. Frankie can only go by what the installer claims - without physically re-tracing all his steps.
Not trying to say that this install was acceptable - just don't think it should get the negative judgements its receiving.
I get that.
But as an owner of a shop it is his reputation on the line to make sure the job is done correctly. I'm sure he is a great guy with tons of knowledge and loads of experience. To me it speaks to his lack of caring for a small job ( the bread and butter) to make sure a simple thing like a setting on an amp is done correctly. Instead he suggests installing another piece of equipment that the op obviously didn't need. It's nothing against him personally. But amp settings is something that he could have figured out in seconds, and should have.
Best example I have is I recently had tints done at audio haven. Jeff ( the owner) didn't personally do the job, but if the job was a complete botch it wouldn't come back on the installer. It would come back on Jeff. It's just the way it is. ( BTW the installer did a great job on my tints and I have nothing buy positive to say about audio haven. )
midnitehour
12-09-2012, 01:07 AM
while i've seen jobs done by 20HZ i agree with peterm15, something as simple as making sure the deck had the right outputs set and that the amp wasn't in band pass should have been on the checklist.
worse so is that no one in that shop could hear the difference in SQ with the front speakers on a band pass, something that the internet figured out in 2 hours.
20hz isn't the only frequency music is played on.
In response to Default User:
Frankie may do good customs jobs but my job was shitty. I realized that this was wrong shop from the beginning but chose convenience over my intuition. After the installer said the sound was terrible and suggested a higher output Amp or putting the old speakers back Frankie said there was nothing wrong with installation or sound quality, it is my "perspective". When I insisted fixing it, he personally adjusted both amps but it was no better. Then he offered to put a line driver for $200 to boost the signal coming from the Kenwood HU.
Issues I had / have are:
1) First, I called Frankie to get a quote on labour to install front coaxial speakers and sub/ mono amp. He said he would do it for $150 (two hours @ $75/hr) but could be even less. When I went there during my lunch break to show my equipment, he wanted $260 (3.5 hrs). When walked out, he said he would talk to installers and see whether they can do the job for 2 hrs. Installers agreed and we made an appointment.
2) Went for the appointment. After giving the keys and waiting for a while, Frankie came back and said they were doing something in the shop that would affect my car and asked me come the next day. So I went the next and got the job done. I was happy with their work except that the car smelled of paint for a week and they remove the MDF board I mounted the amp and installed the amp directly to the back seat (Frankie agreed to cover the MDF board with carpet and install it). On the positive side, they installed the LCD to the head unit and got it working.
3) Week later, I went to him get a Focal component fronts with 2 channel amp (supplied by me) installed with 4 gauge wire supplied by him or use the leftover of the expensive 4 gauge wire I gave him for the previous job.
Issues I have with this job:
a) Put 8 gauge instead of 4 gauge wire and told me it was 4 gauge. Said he threw the leftover 4 gauge wire I gave him for the previous job in garbage. I am not sure he used my 4 gauge wire for the first job at all.
b) This time, clock was not set in the LCD. It displays only temperature now - no time.
c) Installing the amp under the passenger seat way back towards the rear seat. Now the rear passenger cannot stretch their legs or would accidentally kick the amp. I should have been told that placing amp under the passenger seat is a bad idea because there is a heat vent blocking the amp placement. Furthermore, amp should not be placed near a heat source.
d) Installing crossovers inside the doors. He said that is how he does for every other job. Wanted another $150 (2 hrs) to install crossover in the cabin to make them accessible. Didn't consulted me in setting the crossovers.
e) Didn't put the sound damping I gave them. I saw the unopened damping pack (after the speakers were installed). Then they said they would take out the door panels again and put the sound damping and asked me to stay in the waiting area.
d) I had to pay $40 to another shop to get the sound adjusted. Thanks Peterm15 for your offer to help. I didn't want you to drive all the way from Toronto to help me.
Sorry guys for the long response. I want not going to shop review in this forum because it is unlikely any of you would ever use this shop. they specialize in 'high end' custom jobs. I was going to consider this as a life's lesson but I just had to respond Default Users comments.
peterm15
12-09-2012, 09:20 AM
Issues I have with this job:
a) Put 8 gauge instead of 4 gauge wire and told me it was 4 gauge. Said he threw the leftover 4 gauge wire I gave him for the previous job in garbage. I am not sure he used my 4 gauge wire for the first job at all.
b) This time, clock was not set in the LCD. It displays only temperature now - no time.
c) Installing the amp under the passenger seat way back towards the rear seat. Now the rear passenger cannot stretch their legs or would accidentally kick the amp. I should have been told that placing amp under the passenger seat is a bad idea because there is a heat vent blocking the amp placement. Furthermore, amp should not be placed near a heat source.
d) Installing crossovers inside the doors. He said that is how he does for every other job. Wanted another $150 (2 hrs) to install crossover in the cabin to make them accessible. Didn't consulted me in setting the crossovers.
e) Didn't put the sound damping I gave them. I saw the unopened damping pack (after the speakers were installed). Then they said they would take out the door panels again and put the sound damping and asked me to stay in the waiting area.
d) I had to pay $40 to another shop to get the sound adjusted. Thanks Peterm15 for your offer to help. I didn't want you to drive all the way from Toronto to help me.
Sorry guys for the long response. I want not going to shop review in this forum because it is unlikely any of you would ever use this shop. they specialize in 'high end' custom jobs. I was going to consider this as a life's lesson but I just had to respond Default Users comments.
A) you asked for 4, they should put 4. I decided on 2 for mine and even though was told multiple times it was over kill I still went for 2. Would have gone 0 but it's a pain in the but to hide the wires.
B) you can't really blame them for that. Unless you had the stock HU with you there was nothing they could do. And that would mean uninstalling and reinstalling the HU. I had the time on mine until my battery died one day. Now no time.
C and D) I can't say anything about this. I have no idea.
E) should have done it the first time. But at least they did it at hopefully no charge to you.
F) I would have been more then happy to help, the drive from my home is actually not that bad. Only about 20 min. Plus I'm in Toronto now. But headed home soon. Would have been like 5 min out of my way. Glad you got it working though.
If you would like to meetup one day to get the time back on your LCD I can show you how. That way when it happens again you can do it. It will happen any time your battery dies or you have to disconnect it.
113GT
12-09-2012, 06:52 PM
Installing the crossovers in the doors, while not as accessible as in the glove compartment for example, is where most installers put them.
they are perfectly fine in the doors. they are safe there.
113GT
12-09-2012, 06:55 PM
when I got my system installed, i thought it sounded like crap at first but with some tuning and some time, the sound mellowed out and is very nice and balanced now.
I drive 4 different cars during the week (mine, 2 of my parents cars and my girlfriends) so my ears never adjust to just one type of sound but over time, my set up "broke in" and sounds awesome.
point is, even though my installer is amazing and does amazing work and I was there for the entire install, watching and helping a bit, my first thought was to blame him for the crappy sound, but it was just not fine tuned to my liking. After some amp adjustments and eq adjustments, it sounds awesome now.
point is, even though my installer is amazing and does amazing work and I was there for the entire install, watching and helping a bit, my first thought was to blame him for the crappy sound, but it was just not fine tuned to my liking. After some amp adjustments and eq adjustments, it sounds awesome now.
I agree with you but the whole experience made me sick.
JayJay18
12-10-2012, 02:46 PM
Cheap pricing and convenience is not always worth it.
In car audio getting a cheap quote does not mean quality.
I know a lot of installers that are cheaper than others and some installers that are $50 more but the quality is there.
I go to my buddy for car audio and its great quality work and craftsman ship, you learn a lot more from independent installers than sitting in a waiting room not knowing how they treat your car.
Flagrum_3
12-15-2012, 04:22 PM
Installing the crossovers in the doors, while not as accessible as in the glove compartment for example, is where most installers put them.
they are perfectly fine in the doors. they are safe there.
+1; I've had mine in the doors for years, no issues whatsoever and it's not like their not accessible lol.
Cheap pricing and convenience is not always worth it.
In car audio getting a cheap quote does not mean quality.
I know a lot of installers that are cheaper than others and some installers that are $50 more but the quality is there.
I go to my buddy for car audio and its great quality work and craftsman ship, you learn a lot more from independent installers than sitting in a waiting room not knowing how they treat your car.
Big +1 to this comment. With some things quality should be foremost over price, and this is one of those things.
_3
Cheap pricing and convenience is not always worth it.
In car audio getting a cheap quote does not mean quality.
.
This place was not exactly cheap. It is a custom audio shop. According to their web site they do high end and celebrity installations. I checked them before going there. They do have a reputation for good work. Unfortunately, things went bad in my job and in addition, I didn't get good advise from them, specially relating to location of the amp driving the front speakers. Now, I have to relocate it to the trunk which means that I have to get the wiring done again. Probably, they did not pay attention to my job because it was neither high end nor celebrity.
TheMaterial
12-17-2012, 03:08 PM
This place was not exactly cheap. It is a custom audio shop. According to their web site they do high end and celebrity installations. I checked them before going there. They do have a reputation for good work. Unfortunately, things went bad in my job and in addition, I didn't get good advise from them, specially relating to location of the amp driving the front speakers. Now, I have to relocate it to the trunk which means that I have to get the wiring done again. Probably, they did not pay attention to my job because it was neither high end nor celebrity.
It shouldn't matter if your a high end customer or not. These little shops stay open because of the average customer.
If he ran 8gauge, instead of 4 like you asked you should have said this isn't what you paid for and asked them to fix it.
If I get a car and they ask for a certain wire type I'll ask why, and if they insist it will get run, 4 gauge in a mazda is easy so it shouldn't be an issue.
LCD not much you can do about that unless you brought the factory unit with you and asked them to do that for you.
Unless you asked for the amp to be under the seat, the only reason they put it there is to save time and material. I will only put an amp under a seat in a car if asked, and I'll explain why its a bad idea and 98% of the time its in the trunk. That's just a short cut on there part (unless you told them to put it there)
crossovers are fine in the door. He's right to charge extra to put them inside the car as its quite a bit more work to do that. Did you specifically ask to be consulted on how to set the cross overs? When doing this every day, you just set the crossover overs to what sounds right unless told or mentioned otherwise.
It just seems they were lazy in what they were doing. Nothing else to it.
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