Ford Focus ST vs Mazdaspeed3! - Head 2 Head MotorTrend Episode 28

[tdott]

I gotta hand it to the focus, I want to experience that oversteer in a fwd car.


http://youtu.be/OISFrU4I_7s

[Genpu_Mz3]

sounds like 2 guys hired by ford to sell the car. the spent more time talking about the ford then the speed 3.

[Scottobot]

Did I miss 0-60 times?

Anyway..
8:28
RANDY: "The Mazda feels like a better-made car.."
Carlos folds his arms. Body language anyone?
RANDY: "..more solid, better shocks.."
Carlos remains silent with arms folded.
RANDY: "BUT.. lots of understeer"
Carlos: "YEP!" and uncrosses his arms.

I LOL.

It's not surprising that journos will shill the new car over one that's in its seventh model year to keep people excited about cars rather than saying "this new car is a nominal improvement at best over this other one that was introduced in 2007".

[cSPEED]

I would think that 75% of this video is dedicated to the ST because it's new. MS3 has been around for 6 years now.

[CH0SiiN1]

MS3 will never be knocked off as the king of sport compacts.. NEXT?

[dave2010GT]

Interior is better on the Ford?!?!?! It looks like a friggen space ship, the speed is for driving not looking at screens and buttons!

[Jsquared]

That was a little too much for me. If you're a true car enthusiast to the point of having a show and giving reviews on cars....leave the bias out. This guy clearly preferred for the ford before he even got into it. Not a fair head to head. I noticed when the race car driver took over he was saying so many great things about the mazda but buddy paid no attention until he mentioned under steer. Unreal!

I do think the ST is a nice car though and a good comparison. Well said Dave2010Gt, you get into a car to drive it not to watch tv and pound on buttons.

[breakfasteatre]

Well said Dave2010Gt, you get into a car to drive it not to watch tv and pound on buttons.

And this review showed that the ST is a better driving car.

I drive a genpoo speed3. If anything I would have a bias towards the poo, but I have to say the ST looks like a better car. The fact that it's newer gives it no excuse

[The Wolf]

The fact that it's newer gives it no excuse

+1, for all intents and purposes, the ms3 is a 7 year old car. If Mazda completely redesigns the Speed3, expect it to outdo this ST.

[Flagrum_3]

With the initial and obvious bias noted, a couple of things one comes out of this with. The Mazda is better built and solid. The Ford may be a good car, but I see only one issue which Mazda engineers need to focus on, the understeer. Solve that one issue (not a simple task by no means), possibly drop a few pounds somewhere and the Speed is still on top...IMO.


_3

[SomeGuy]

The understeer is simple to solve...rear sway bar takes care of it, mine made the car almost neutral in handling. A little weight off the nose wouldn't hurt either.

[6strings]

Focus ST FTW !

[DaveIrwin24]

The focus st is just overpriced, might as well just she'll out a few more dollars and buy an sti, I'm biased cause I have a speed... But if I didn't, I would still pick the speed 3 because it's more solid and it looks more unique exterior wise. We will have to wait and see what the future holds for the hot hatch segment.

[cSPEED]

The focus st is just overpriced, might as well just she'll out a few more dollars and buy an sti, I'm biased cause I have a speed... But if I didn't, I would still pick the speed 3 because it's more solid and it looks more unique exterior wise. We will have to wait and see what the future holds for the hot hatch segment.

If by 'a few dollars' you mean almost double the price then I agree.

[DaveIrwin24]

Yeah a little more then a few dollars lol

[Mr Wilson]

http://www.focusst.org/forum/attachments/focus-st-news/5506d1362532099-motor-trend-s-st-vs-ms3-vs-wrx-st_happy.jpg

[McGuyver_3]

I'll be honest here,
I do not like the looks of that ST. Maybe the colour? I dunno I just dont like it
I do not like the looks of the speed 3 either let alone it being a hatch
why I drive one? It was cheaper to buy a speed then to modify my gen 2 sedan to true speed 3 spec( by this I mean the works)
I am by no means biased, however I dont find the torque steer to be as dramatic as he made it seem.
Interiors- Not a fan of either.
The ugly red interior on the speed. The dash layout I can live with though
The seats in the ST look really cheap as well though and the dash layout its not terrible but its not great either especially the vents and the nickoteen patches on the steering wheel lol

[BiGBanG]

This video is so biased it's ridiculous.

And I don't know what he was smoking saying that the ST has more interior volume, even from the video, the mazda clearly has a better and more spacious interior. The back seats of that ST looks like the back of a honda fit.

[standsideways]

2013 Mazdaspeed 3
passenger volume -94.6 ft3


2013 Ford Focus ST
passenger volume-91 ft3

[Cab0oze]

sounds like 2 guys hired by ford to sell the car. the spent more time talking about the ford then the speed 3.

+100
I don't like the genpoo but i find it hard to believe that EVERY ASPECT of the ford is better despite seeing lots of people who drove it say it wasn't that good.

[r4mi5awi]

Despite the bias, I agree with the conclusion. The ST seems like the better car to go hooning down back roads and on the track.

But as a daily driver, a road companion, cost of ownership and maintenance, I would stick to the MS3. In reality, it's limits are more accessible to most drivers on the road.

However, torque steer and the capacity to drift is a measuring stick 99% of drivers do not consider. Why do you guys think the GTI has been the benchmark for so many years as class leader?

[r4mi5awi]

Also, the ST wouldn't be ideal to face up to Canadian winters I feel, even with winter's on. I could just be talking out of my ass with this one lol

[CH0SiiN1]

To me over a second on the track isn't realistic, maybe it was but IMO they drove the ST harder and seemed to use better corner entries and lines.. If all is true, well congrats to someone(ford) for after 6+ years of attempts to take out the king that used the same platform the whole time.

[Thrizzl3]

i drove an ST...it was an easy to car to drive but felt sloppy. the seats were cool but that was it. i got back in the ms3 and felt the difference in quality. ms3 > focus ST.

[stevenma188]

If you want to talk about BIAS, talk about the bias here on this forum. Sure the video was a bit biased towards the ST, but it does have some valid points.

Based on some of the other reviews I read and what my buddy told me after driving a ST, I do tend to agree that the ST is the better handling car. As well, the Recaros in the ST are awesome, and I really like the feel of the car after sitting in it at the auto show.

[Cab0oze]

Sure the video was a bit biased towards the ST, but it does have some valid points.
A bit biased? I didn't watch the whole thing but the guy literally didn't say a single good thing about the speed, everything was like 'yeah the ST is way better'.

If you compare two cars head to head, they will always both have pros and cons. All he talked about was cons of the speed and pros of the ST. And don't get me started on how fake and overdone his laugh sounded after experiencing the speed torquesteer...

[stevenma188]

Maybe you should watch the whole video. They do point out a lot of the good things about the speed.

[6strings]

Mazda3 forum loves Mazda3

If you want to talk about BIAS, talk about the bias here on this forum. Sure the video was a bit biased towards the ST, but it does have some valid points.
.

[$lickology]

Does this guy work for ford??? This is not a comparison test! The first minutes of the vid, the host is telling us that the ford is better? This test is absolutely unprofessional and biased, I realise that ford has to basically sponsor a comparison test inorder to have their car be awarded the winner without solid statistical proof!!! Mazda all day!!!!

[MS308-john-a]

Test drove an ST last weekend (the blue one at planet ford), first of all...Its wayyyyy to high off the ground for a sports car, its alot more smooth then a speed3 but not as fast. The speed pulls way better and feels solid in the steering and when at WOT, the ST feels like a friggin boat lol. The focus is fun to drive...dont get me wrong, but if you know your shenanigans, The speed 3 is the better car.

P.S. buddy in the video, drive the speed3 like you mean it!

[Flagrum_3]

The understeer is simple to solve...rear sway bar takes care of it, mine made the car almost neutral in handling. A little weight off the nose wouldn't hurt either.

Seriously dude, if it was THAT SIMPLE, don't you think Mazda would have made sure to remedy the understeer before production? They do test drive these cars EXTENSIVELY before putting them into production... I agree they should try to cut the weight down though.

_3

[standsideways]

Seriously dude, if it was THAT SIMPLE, don't you think Mazda would have made sure to remedy the understeer before production? They do test drive these cars EXTENSIVELY before putting them into production... I agree they should try to cut the weight down though.

_3
Yes the car is HEAVY at 3400+lbs with driver!

They could easily remove ALL the toeque steer..BUT

Not without added NVH from the parts that make the tq steer go away.

The car has torque steer because they have to make other parts of the car quiet and comfortable for the people who want that(90%) and in the process it compromises other things.

If we had a legit LSD the car would not be parking lot friendly at all and mazda would have a shiiitload of warranty claims for diffs, and it would be noisy ad worse for every day driving.

Same thing with rsb, engine mounts,sticky wider tires, etc...

Solution without added NVH/racecarness: REVOKNUCKLE!

[Mr Wilson]

They do test drive these cars EXTENSIVELY before putting them into production...

_3

I like this line. Ford Escape 1.6 comes to mind.

[Flagrum_3]

I like this line. Ford Escape 1.6 comes to mind.

I was speaking of actual 'drive testing', as in tracking and driving performance, vehicle characteristics. Where they would 'evaluate' performance and 'handling' characteristics of the vehicle, not longevity or integrity of the drive-lines, that is a different department altogether.

_3

[Flagrum_3]

Yes the car is HEAVY at 3400+lbs with driver!

They could easily remove ALL the toeque steer..BUT

Not without added NVH from the parts that make the tq steer go away.

The car has torque steer because they have to make other parts of the car quiet and comfortable for the people who want that(90%) and in the process it compromises other things.

If we had a legit LSD the car would not be parking lot friendly at all and mazda would have a shiiitload of warranty claims for diffs, and it would be noisy ad worse for every day driving.

Same thing with rsb, engine mounts,sticky wider tires, etc...

Solution without added NVH/racecarness: REVOKNUCKLE!

I don't know what torque steer has to do with understeer but since you changed the subject; You may be right about the LSD not being legit, but I couldn't talk to that, but there are other issues which may cause torque steer such as the length of the drive shafts for instance. A properly designed LSD in conjunction with a properly designed 'final' drive-line, should draw hp to both sides equally, thats the only way to properly resolve the issue. But didn't the guy in the video state the Ford has no LSD?


_3

[Mr Wilson]

I was speaking of actual 'drive testing', as in tracking and driving performance, vehicle characteristics. Where they would 'evaluate' performance and 'handling' characteristics of the vehicle, not longevity or integrity of the drive-lines, that is a different department altogether.

_3

Don't know why it's a surprise then, pretty much every mass manufacturer builds understeer into their products. Of the handling characteristics its deemed the safest to manage. Of course they'll test it, but to what degree for the 99% is adequate, where the 1% maybe the tracking, AutoX crowd find it a hinderance.

Mazda could improve it if they choose as someguy has mentioned.....also doesn't help that the weight distribution sux.

As for the ST, in before buddy loses it in traffic.

_Wilson

[Flagrum_3]

Don't know why it's a surprise then, pretty much every mass manufacturer builds understeer into their products. Of the handling characteristics its deemed the safest to manage. Of course they'll test it, but to what degree for the 99% is adequate, where the 1% maybe the tracking, AutoX crowd find it a hinderance.

Mazda could improve it if they choose as someguy has mentioned.....also doesn't help that the weight distribution sux.

As for the ST, in before buddy loses it in traffic.

_Wilson

I get what your saying now, thanks for clarifying.


_3

[r4mi5awi]

Let's see how the MS3 fares with Canadian reviewers at the helm.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUnksKbG1b8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[standsideways]

the ST was definitely made for auto journalists and people who just want to daily drive it around town.

Cant do more than a few hot laps without the "e diff" cooking your brakes?!?!?! LOL fail all day ford.

[Simon99]

I watched the whole thing... The only moment that really pissed me off is when the guy faked laughed a whole minute after testing the torque steer on the MS3

[geobur]

To me over a second on the track isn't realistic, maybe it was but IMO they drove the ST harder and seemed to use better corner entries and lines.. If all is true, well congrats to someone(ford) for after 6+ years of attempts to take out the king that used the same platform the whole time.

+1 I was watching the lines they were taking with the Speed3 and was thinking the same thing, they were on the brakes sooner, didn't take corners as wide or as fast...understeer or no, you need to follow proper lines in any car to get it whipping around a corner at as fast a speed as possible.

Crazy bias in this

[asyed]

I say that there is a huge bias from most of these comparos ( if not all) just because most of them want the "American" car to win. Its kinda like that show about being faster than a redneck but with more subtle bias. In the end we all know the MS3 is better :P

[Kiyomi]

I say that there is a huge bias from most of these comparos ( if not all) just because most of them want the "American" car to win. Its kinda like that show about being faster than a redneck but with more subtle bias. In the end we all know the MS3 is better :P

+1
when i c a focus st beating a mazdaspeed 3 on the track, stock for stock in person with similar drivers, then ill be convinced.

[SomeGuy]

I would just love to see a review with a very lightly modded MS3 (RSB, RMM, AP and Intake) against these cars. I wonder how much that would skew the results, killing the understeer, putting the power down a bit better and fixing some of the stock tune issues.

[Mr Wilson]

But that's not apples to apples. The ST should be better, it's platform is 2 years old vs 10 for ours. They've been able to learn from our issues and apply fixes to them.....like better wider rubber.

I don't read automotive mags, besides bias they are there to sell a product and cause a level of controversy. The Supervisor 2013 Caravan we have at work has a shit ton of torque steer. Journalists need some 5 pound dumbbells.

[standsideways]

But that's not apples to apples. The ST should be better, it's platform is 2 years old vs 10 for ours. They've been able to learn from our issues and apply fixes to them.....like better wider rubber.

I don't read automotive mags, besides bias they are there to sell a product and cause a level of controversy. The Supervisor 2013 Caravan we have at work has a shit ton of torque steer. Journalists need some 5 pound dumbbells.

Lol the new c chassis is not an ALL NEW 2 year old platform.

Its the same as the c1 but with some modifications just as mazda did with the c1 to sky change.
Global C platform

The C1 platform has been replaced by the Global C platform (or C-car)[3] and combines three previous platforms as part of Ford's "One Ford" efficiency drive.[4]

Ford global C platform vehicles:

2010 – Ford C-Max and Grand C-Max
2011 – Ford Focus
2013 – Ford Escape / Ford Kuga
2013 – Ford Transit Connect

[Mr Wilson]

Sooo it's an old platform with 'minor' changes to areas like modified suspension pickups, engineered compatibility to accommodate pickups for several vehicles (drivetrain/body - combines 3 former 'replacing' the C1), etc but its the same old platform.

Thanks for the Wikipedia quote.

[CelestSpeed3]

The ST is not the Focus RS. I would take the RS over the MS3, the ST can take a seat.

If they brought the RS here they would sell less Mustangs, and we can't have that.

[SomeGuy]

But that's not apples to apples. The ST should be better, it's platform is 2 years old vs 10 for ours. They've been able to learn from our issues and apply fixes to them.....like better wider rubber.

I don't read automotive mags, besides bias they are there to sell a product and cause a level of controversy. The Supervisor 2013 Caravan we have at work has a shit ton of torque steer. Journalists need some 5 pound dumbbells.

Well the tune, motor mount and sway bar are all things that Mazda could easily do the MS3 to make it a better car, wouldn't really change the cost of the car but would make it that much better. Then it would be apples to apples?

[Mr Wilson]

^^^If Mazda did that, then yes fair fight.

Agree with you 100% Ford even has had issues with the RMM and an apparent fix is on the way for a 1-2 shift clunk.

I'd like to see the test with the same rubber on both cars.

[thanu31]

Great review here, very fair


http://youtu.be/fKeS-M4yKZY

[Scottobot]

Great review here, very fair

I like these guys. They've done some other good reviews and comparos.