Bought a house (accepted offer at least) and need your help!!

[113GT]

Hey guys, so I recently put an offer in on a house (first house I will own) and did the inspection yesterday.

The house was built in 1957 and is 40 feet wide by 29 feet deep and is a detached split level. The entire house is brick with asphalt shingles.

Now here are the positives:

Structure is SOLID
Foundation is great
Attic is dry as well as the basement (no moisture found)
The overall house is in great shape and has been nicely taken care of


Here are the negatives:

while the house was kept well, the previous owners to the ones living in it now, painted the brick white (it was red brick) So now the brick cannot breathe and 5 or 6 bricks have "exploded" The face of the brick crumbled. The brick is still there but only the first inch of the face is missing.
The inspector said we may be able to salvage the brick by putting in weep holes. this will allow the bricks to release the humidity and resolve the issue. If I do that, I will probably have to repaint the house every 5-7 years when it starts to peel off

So far it's been 5 years and it looks great so I don't know about that frequency of repainting.

To put in weep holes will be cheaper but if I have to repaint to keep the look of the white brick, I would need to get it prof. done which costs mooolllahh

So, we are looking into replacing the brick around the entire house. Have any of you done this, if so, how much did you spend?


Another negative is some of the pipes are galvanized and will need replacing in the near future (still in good shape but will fail eventually)

The electrical outlets are grounded in the basement and in the kitchen but no grounded anywhere else in the house (I was told not an issue unless using a tv, computer, home theater etc.) For an alarm clock, and house phone and stuff like that, it's fine.

The attic, while dry and well insulated has vermiculite (which is found in TONS of homes, even now, that were built in the 1950's. Some of them contain asbestos and can be harmful if disturbed. The owners are doing the test with multi test (quebec company) and will give us the results in a few days. If its positive for asbestos, we should remove it and replace it with non toxic insulation. It is not needed right away since if it is left untouched, it is not harmful. it's only when you ruffull it around where it can get airborne.

That was pretty much it.

Now, they were asking 324,900$ and accepted our offer of 315k. With the repairs that need to be done, what do you guys think??

Have any of you had to have a brick layer redo your bricks? Redo your plumbing>?

[Noisy Crow]

Asbestos removal can be expensive, and can be a show-stopper for reselling a home. I wouldn't be surprised at $10,000+ to remove it.
Bricks: the paint can be removed (but not by sandblasting). Weep holes you can do yourself with a 1/4" bit and an hammer drill. Note that bricks explode when they get wet from behind, don't dry out, and then freeze.
Electrical: the boxes are all probably grounded, with just the outlets themselves missing the ground connection. You can swap out the outlets with newer ones and add a piece of wire to connect to the ground point in the outlet box. I'd be more concerned about the size of the electrical panel... a lot of older homes only have a 60amp panel, which really limits the electrical load.
Plumbing is in the walls. So if you need to replace it, you are looking at breaking open the walls. Very likely the wallboard has asbestos in it (see above).
You said nothing about the furnace. How old is it?

[113GT]

it has a 200 amp electrical panel

the furnace i believe was in 2000

thermopomp (heat pump/central air unit) is in 2008

[113GT]

this is the mls listing.

Inclusions
Fixtures, blinds, curtains and poles, dishwasher, alarm system, shed, garage door opener, water heaters, pool and acc.

Exclusions
Curtains and poles CCP and nursery.

MLS ® Remarks
Superb detached with walk-garage.Propriété renovated and maintained with care and attention to detail over the ans.Elle offers 3 bedrooms upstairs and 2 bathrooms including a renovated and S-sol.Le finished basement in complete was renovated in 2008-09.La windows, the roof, heat pump and electrical panel are récents.Faites fast!

Addendum
LOCATION LOCATION * LOCATION * Property conveniently located near all the shops and services in common use, groceries, daycare, medical clinic, schools and parks, public transportation, the Cartier metro station and Highway 19.Vous are close to everything! OTHER CARACTÉRSITIQUES -All floors upstairs are wood lath; -floors of the kitchen and bathroom tiles; -The dining area is open to the kitchen and living room ; -sliding French doors between dining room and living room, kitchen-cabinets oak -The SDB is renovated; -3 bedrooms upstairs and a 4th in the basement; -The basement is fully re-built (2008-10); -bathroom in the basement very spacious with large glass shower and laundry area laundry chute; -Family room with brick walls, recessed lighting, dual-energy heating with heat pump; -Doors, windows and roof in good condition; -Lots of storage, cedar closet, large garage, in the basement; -Complete landscaping, fenced yard, large deck, gazebo permanent pool and cabana. IMPROVEMENTS AND RENOVATIONS -Duct Cleaning heating / cooling in 2011; Repairing a crack with a guarantee of 20 years in 2010 -Replacing all front windows in 2010 -Replacing two other windows in the basement in 2008 and 2010 -Replacement the garage door in 2009 , Development of a new comprehensive and very spacious bathroom in the basement in 2009, New heat pump in 2008 with transferable warranty valid until October 2013 -New electrical panel 200 amps in 2008 -room layout in the basement in 2008 New exterior side door in 2007; -pool in 2006 , paving and walls of the garage entrance in 2005 , Roof in 2005 - The bathroom upstairs was also renovated. It will please the most demanding!

[113GT]

the oil tank is from 1994 i believe and the hot water tank was from 2000.

[SomeGuy]

Run away...sounds like a can of worms. Those are quite a lot of significantly costly things to fix and that's only what can be seen. Chances are the stuff that you can't see is even worse.

[Default User]

Lower your offer to cover part of the costs.

Even if you back out - the current owners will need to re-price the property knowing what needs to be done.

[tmpz]

the oil tank is from 1994 i believe and the hot water tank was from 2000.

Our neighbor's oil tank leaked during winter and wasn't noticed until months have past. It leaked all over their property and some parts of ours. Thankfully their insurance covered everything. They dug up everything, drilled test holes in house to make sure it didn't spread further towards our property. It took a long time to get this job done, 6-8 months :(

I didn't know people still use oil.

[r4BBiT]

Run away...sounds like a can of worms. Those are quite a lot of significantly costly things to fix and that's only what can be seen. Chances are the stuff that you can't see is even worse.

I will have to agree with this. Asbestos removal is huge bucks and also any kind of electrical, plumbing, HVAC work. This is the reason why I do my own work for pretty much everything except gas lines.

Since the outlets don't have ground that alone could cost an arm and a leg. Is the wiring copper or aluminum (which was used back in a day)?

Also I can imagine that redoing brick siding can be quite costly too as it is pretty labour intensive and brick layer get paid well too.

It sounds like a nice house overall, but from my own experience I would try to find out who did the renovations/fixes as sometimes DIYs do such poor piss job that you basically need to redo everything. I definitely can tell that my basement (bath and big recroom) were not finished by licensed contractor and I mean improper plumbing (wet venting whole bath and too far locations) and electrical (3 pieces of wire used to connect the dishwasher = fire hazard) to poorly build walls with 2x3 and scraps of wood.

Just my two cents as first time home owner who put in solid $20,000 into their home because we didn't know what to look for.

[SirWanker]

Run away...sounds like a can of worms. Those are quite a lot of significantly costly things to fix and that's only what can be seen. Chances are the stuff that you can't see is even worse.

That may not be possible depending on the conditions that were in the offer. Plus this is in Quebec so there maybe differences in the RE laws.
If you can, update the offer dependent on the results of the asbestos test. Either they pay for the removal or reduce the price equivalent to the removal and have it all done prior to the closing date.

[EastYork3]

My first house had a bunch of issues as well (roof/furnace/asbestos/termites) and I found that the costs that the inspector quotes were 3/4 if not half the actual cost, so take those numbers with a grain of salt. The inspection company was a very trustworthy and respected company and cost $500 so it's not that they were sneaky, they just quote low in general.

For small amounts of asbestos, you can remove it yourself and dispose of it at the proper facility, but for attic insulation, you should have it done by a professional. As stated before it is not cheap. The process involves a lot of prep work and the disposal fees are also costly.

The hot water tank is old, but if it's a rental, you should be able to get it replace for free from the supplier.

I have no experience with the brick issue, but it sounds like a PITA and costly to have then refaced and sandblasted.

What we did was negotiate with the seller to cover the cost of the repairs, which they did, but in the end the costs were higher as I wanted to go with better companies than they got to quote. You also have to deal with all of the work that goes on, missed appointments etc. You'll be a general contractor for a few weeks.

I'd look elsewhere IMHO.

[peterm15]

I didn't read anything after " I don't know how people use oil. "

Some of us have no choice.

I will warn you right now. Oil is EXPENSIVE.
we heat our house with a fireplace. And we still go through $400+ in oil a month. Mostly off of hot water. My neighbor ( family of 4) go through 800/month on oil.

If you have oil it usually means you have a well. What kind of well does it have and did you have the water tested?

[EastYork3]

But, you get to see that cool oil truck every so often ;)

[113GT]

the house is bi energy. It is electric and oil

up to -10 C it uses the heat pump, colder than that, the oil is used.

oil is actually going down slowly....

All the electricals are perfect, no issue there. You do not need a ground for small things like alarm clocks and phones. All other things would use a surge protector anyway (high end one not those cheap ones at cdn tire).

As far as the asbestos, unfortunately, you cannot find a home in quebec without it that was built in that era. they almost all have it. Cost to remove it would be at the sellers expense (hence lowering the price)

As far as the plumbing, again, all houses have galvanized unless you are buying new or have upgraded already. the plumbing is fine for now but needs copper or PVC replacement soon. Yes it is a big job but it shouldn't cost more than 7-8k. its not a big house.

[113GT]

800 a month?!?!!? WTF lol....my parents house is oil only and we spend about 150$ a month .......

[113GT]

If they can lower their price to about 285-290 i think it's ok because thats all the work that needs to be done (for now). Obviously when you open things up you discover other issues but if these issues were not present, I would never even know. Who would open up the house after they buy it if it is in good shape just to check for rot mould or other issues lol.

the houses in the area all go for 330-340 since it's in a prime location.

so at 290, put in about 30 - 40k for the work and we still got a good deal.

well see what the sellers say...

[113GT]

thanks for all of the feedback guys! it's good to hear others opinions!

[peterm15]

800 a month?!?!!? WTF lol....my parents house is oil only and we spend about 150$ a month .......

What runs off oil in your rents house? Possibly a tankless water heater?

Like I said. Even us being conservative with out water consumption it costs us 400+/month.

[dambay]

Our neighbor's oil tank leaked during winter and wasn't noticed until months have past. It leaked all over their property and some parts of ours. Thankfully their insurance covered everything. They dug up everything, drilled test holes in house to make sure it didn't spread further towards our property. It took a long time to get this job done, 6-8 months :(

I didn't know people still use oil.

That only applies if the OP is looking at a buried tank. Which is unlikely.
With regards to the insulation in the attic, if it does contain asbestos, as you said, OP, there is no requirement to remove it as long as it isn't disturbed. However as others have said, several other building materials can also contain asbestos (plaster, vinyl floor tiles, stucco/textured finishes, to name a few). You would be required to disclose to a future buyer that the attic contains asbestos which will drive the value down.

[SomeGuy]

That may not be possible depending on the conditions that were in the offer. Plus this is in Quebec so there maybe differences in the RE laws.
If you can, update the offer dependent on the results of the asbestos test. Either they pay for the removal or reduce the price equivalent to the removal and have it all done prior to the closing date.

99% of the time people put a clause on the home inspection...that's usually the out if there are serious issues with the building (asbestos, structure, electrical, plumbing, hvac, etc).

[CelestSpeed3]

I'm probably going to sound like a jerk, that's not my intent but here it goes.

Unless you guys are electricians, please don't give any electrical advise. If you are electricians its time to go back to school.



All the electricals are perfect, no issue there. You do not need a ground for small things like alarm clocks and phones. All other things would use a surge protector anyway (high end one not those cheap ones at cdn tire).

A surge protector won't do anything for you. You don't need a ground for double insulated devices not small devices. So get yhat cleared up. If something has a ground pin on the cord end it needs to be bonded to ground or have ground fault protection. If a fire in your house is found to have started from a device with the bonding pin removed you will be denied insurance coverage.



Since the outlets don't have ground that alone could cost an arm and a leg. Is the wiring copper or aluminum (which was used back in a day)?

It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. So long as its dealt with properly aluminum wires are fine.don't always believe what Homes tells you.



Electrical: the boxes are all probably grounded, with just the outlets themselves missing the ground connection. You can swap out the outlets with newer ones and add a piece of wire to connect to the ground point in the outlet box. I'd be more concerned about the size of the electrical panel... a lot of older homes only have a 60amp panel, which really limits the electrical load.

Please don't give advice like that. You cannot simply add a bond from the receptacle to the box. If you don't have an electric stove a 60A panel is more than enough. Most of the loads in the house are cyclic and a 60A service is enough. Most homes 100A is way more than enough. 200A is crazy overkill in 99% of homes. The house may have a 200A panel but a 200A service is different just so you know. I have seen homes with a 200A panel and a 60A service.

[whywhyzee]

Keep in mind some insurance companies charge a higher premium for aluminum wiring and galvanized plumbing. My parents house was built in the 50's without grounded outlets. They had the kitchen rewired, but the rest of the house is original. You would be surprised at how often you need to plug into a grounded outlet in the house. It really can be a PITA not having grounded outlets throughout.

[CelestSpeed3]

You can add grounded outlets in the house at a reasonable cost. Its just you are at the mercy of your contractor who may not understand how.

[113GT]

@CelestSpeed3 I did not say that I was going to or ever thought it was okay to use a 3 pin plug in a 2 pin outlet.

Just all small electronics I use, including tv, ps3 (i think) my clock, phone all use 2 pin plugs....

If you get a real surge protector, you should be fine with regards to surge protection.

thanks for that info though! really helpful.

[113GT]

we have an electric water heater, it's a tank.

that's crazy, even 400$ a month. wow.

this house has been paying around 150$ a month with the bi energy set up.

[113GT]

would you guys get them to pay for the brick layer to inspect the brick? they may want to use their own brick layer.

also, would you get them to pay for the plumber to get an estimate on replacing the piping and making sure the existing piping is properly done?

they are already paying for the asbestos test ($300 around)

[breakfasteatre]

Please don't give advice like that. You cannot simply add a bond from the receptacle to the box. If you don't have an electric stove a 60A panel is more than enough. Most of the loads in the house are cyclic and a 60A service is enough. Most homes 100A is way more than enough. 200A is crazy overkill in 99% of homes. The house may have a 200A panel but a 200A service is different just so you know. I have seen homes with a 200A panel and a 60A service.

I guarantee a hack and slash electrical company would tell you by adding a new 3 prong receptacle that the box is now bonded. That's the kind of bullshit my first company would tell clueless customers. It made me sick.
Be careful, to elaborate on what Paul has said, you need romex with a bond wire in it that is connected to the ground bar in the panel for a new 3 prong receptacle installed in a box to be bonded. Old romex only had a black and a white, no bare bond wire.

Small appliances that have a 2 prong plug are safe to use because they are double insulated, in that the electrical components have 2 layers of insulating material preventing you from being shocked/electrocuted

For aluminum wiring, you guy buy devices that are rated for it, or you can pigtail off of the aluminum with new copper using approved aluminum/copper marrettes and anti-oxidation paste on the connections. Aluminum wiring doesnt spontaneously combust in the walls.

Knob and tube as well, the workmanship was generally so high that if it wasn't for rats and mice eating it, and homeowners splicing into it, know and tube wiring would be pretty resilient.

[peterm15]

we have an electric water heater, it's a tank.

that's crazy, even 400$ a month. wow.

this house has been paying around 150$ a month with the bi energy set up.

I didnt catch the bi-energy. That's good then.

[113GT]

I guarantee a hack and slash electrical company would tell you by adding a new 3 prong receptacle that the box is now bonded. That's the kind of bullshit my first company would tell clueless customers. It made me sick.
Be careful, to elaborate on what Paul has said, you need romex with a bond wire in it that is connected to the ground bar in the panel for a new 3 prong receptacle installed in a box to be bonded. Old romex only had a black and a white, no bare bond wire.

Small appliances that have a 2 prong plug are safe to use because they are double insulated, in that the electrical components have 2 layers of insulating material preventing you from being shocked/electrocuted

For aluminum wiring, you guy buy devices that are rated for it, or you can pigtail off of the aluminum with new copper using approved aluminum/copper marrettes and anti-oxidation paste on the connections. Aluminum wiring doesnt spontaneously combust in the walls.

Knob and tube as well, the workmanship was generally so high that if it wasn't for rats and mice eating it, and homeowners splicing into it, know and tube wiring would be pretty resilient.

nice info!! thanks man!

[boo-ninja]

I guarantee a hack and slash electrical company would tell you by adding a new 3 prong receptacle that the box is now bonded. That's the kind of bullshit my first company would tell clueless customers. It made me sick.
Be careful, to elaborate on what Paul has said, you need romex with a bond wire in it that is connected to the ground bar in the panel for a new 3 prong receptacle installed in a box to be bonded. Old romex only had a black and a white, no bare bond wire.

Small appliances that have a 2 prong plug are safe to use because they are double insulated, in that the electrical components have 2 layers of insulating material preventing you from being shocked/electrocuted

For aluminum wiring, you guy buy devices that are rated for it, or you can pigtail off of the aluminum with new copper using approved aluminum/copper marrettes and anti-oxidation paste on the connections. Aluminum wiring doesnt spontaneously combust in the walls.

Knob and tube as well, the workmanship was generally so high that if it wasn't for rats and mice eating it, and homeowners splicing into it, know and tube wiring would be pretty resilient.


I'm assuming your an electrician? As am I and find this very entertaining! Nothing wrong with aluminum as long as its rated for what your using it for. It's main use is where weight of the wire is an issue. Ie. overhead triplex. And +1 knob and tube.

[CelestSpeed3]

You can add a GFCI to the beginning of every circuit and the whole house will be protected and not cost an arm and a leg.

Even demands are funny how people want 200A services. We have an electric hot water tank, 4 fridges, a hot tub, 3 computers, 10 TV''s and all kinds of stuff in my garage on a 100A service. Hasn't tripped yet.

Even circuit breakers are crap. If the open under short circuit condition they are to be replaced as per CSA. Ya like that happens. Fuses are much safer.

I have only seen a house "need" a 200A service once. The guy had a HAM radio broadcasting out of his home to talk to relatives in Germany.

[boo-ninja]

You can add a GFCI to the beginning of every circuit and the whole house will be protected and not cost an arm and a leg.

Even demands are funny how people want 200A services. We have an electric hot water tank, 4 fridges, a hot tub, 3 computers, 10 TV''s and all kinds of stuff in my garage on a 100A service. Hasn't tripped yet.

Even circuit breakers are crap. If the open under short circuit condition they are to be replaced as per CSA. Ya like that happens. Fuses are much safer.

I have only seen a house "need" a 200A service once. The guy had a HAM radio broadcasting out of his home to talk to relatives in Germany.

Demand load calculation will tell you what you need.

[loki]

Replacing the brick will cost 10's of thousands of dollars.

Removing the paint entirely and addressing the localized spalled bricks may be an option, but sounds like the damage is already done. More bricks are likely just waiting to spall.

My house is brick and to simply re-point the lower level on one side of my downtown Toronto house would be $9,000 and I work with restoration contractors so I would be getting a deal.

[loki]

And just because my post got deleted 5 times while typing, I've broken into 2 posts...


40 grand off of the price of the house, for example, does not mean 40 grand in your pocket for renovations. You need to have that cash on hand since it isn't becoming part of your mortgage.

Unless you're buying your house cash, in which case, please ignore this.

[loki]

But I do like how this turned into an electrical debate

[113GT]

And just because my post got deleted 5 times while typing, I've broken into 2 posts...


40 grand off of the price of the house, for example, does not mean 40 grand in your pocket for renovations. You need to have that cash on hand since it isn't becoming part of your mortgage.

Unless you're buying your house cash, in which case, please ignore this.

you can put it as part of the mortgage since its for repairs, restoration. there are programs for that in quebec.

[113GT]

I will get a bricklayer to check it out and see if they can be salvaged. it is only happening on one side of the house. The other 3 sides are perfect with no issues.

[CelestSpeed3]

Demand load calculation will tell you what you need.

I agree but there is no point in doing one unless its a commercial building. For the average home up to 3000sqft 100A is more then enough. 200A services are just a selling feature.

Unless you are running all electric appliances all the time and tripping the main then I would tell the homeowner an upgrade is needed. Otherwise if they still want to spend the money exterior potlights add great curb appeal

[SomeGuy]

I agree but there is no point in doing one unless its a commercial building. For the average home up to 3000sqft 100A is more then enough. 200A services are just a selling feature.

Unless you are running all electric appliances all the time and tripping the main then I would tell the homeowner an upgrade is needed. Otherwise if they still want to spend the money exterior potlights add great curb appeal

What about people with big garages? Welder, Lift, Compressor, Heater, etc that all run 240v? I only mention because I have 100A service and have thought about putting in a sub panel for the garage as a couple of those are in my future.

[loki]

you can put it as part of the mortgage since its for repairs, restoration. there are programs for that in quebec.

That's cool. Wonder if we have that in Ontario

Personally based on what you've posted here, I would walk away from this house

[CelestSpeed3]

What about people with big garages? Welder, Lift, Compressor, Heater, etc that all run 240v? I only mention because I have 100A service and have thought about putting in a sub panel for the garage as a couple of those are in my future.

Most lifts use less power then a blowdryer. Unless you are getting an industrial welder you will be fine. If you had a model in mind I could give you a more accurate estimate. Heaters is where you will be at a loss. To be honest its easier to use natural gas or propane. I use propane in my garage. Typically I get about 8-9 hours of warm out of a 20lb bottle. The problen with electric is it takes a while to warm up. So you need to turn it on hours before each time. Your garage must also be insulated to mai tain the heat or your heater will run steady and cost. My garage is not insulated and propane works fine. The heater is just really loud.

[r4BBiT]

You can add a GFCI to the beginning of every circuit and the whole house will be protected and not cost an arm and a leg.

Even demands are funny how people want 200A services. We have an electric hot water tank, 4 fridges, a hot tub, 3 computers, 10 TV''s and all kinds of stuff in my garage on a 100A service. Hasn't tripped yet.

Even circuit breakers are crap. If the open under short circuit condition they are to be replaced as per CSA. Ya like that happens. Fuses are much safer.

I have only seen a house "need" a 200A service once. The guy had a HAM radio broadcasting out of his home to talk to relatives in Germany.

Do you mean GFCI breakers? They are not too expensive, I need one and I think it was about $90, but if you have 20 circuits and need 20 of them than it can add up too. Still probably cheaper than running new wires.


That's cool. Wonder if we have that in Ontario

Personally based on what you've posted here, I would walk away from this house

Yes we do. We used part of our mortgage to convert from electrical to gas heating when we bought our house :)

[CelestSpeed3]

Do you mean GFCI breakers? They are not too expensive, I need one and I think it was about $90, but if you have 20 circuits and need 20 of them than it can add up too. Still probably cheaper than running new wires.


There are other solutions less then 1/2 the cost and offer the same proection. You just need some space by the panel.

[SomeGuy]

Most lifts use less power then a blowdryer. Unless you are getting an industrial welder you will be fine. If you had a model in mind I could give you a more accurate estimate. Heaters is where you will be at a loss. To be honest its easier to use natural gas or propane. I use propane in my garage. Typically I get about 8-9 hours of warm out of a 20lb bottle. The problen with electric is it takes a while to warm up. So you need to turn it on hours before each time. Your garage must also be insulated to mai tain the heat or your heater will run steady and cost. My garage is not insulated and propane works fine. The heater is just really loud.

Millermatic 211 is the one I have my eye on. The compressor is likely to be a 5hp 60 gallon unit (Quincy or IR). The lift is a long way off, if ever. The heater is unlikley, I use a little 115v on days warm enough that it has an effect, if it's colder, screw it I'm staying inside. I guess the thing is, if the welder and compressor were running at the same time, I had a load of laundry on, a bunch of lights in the house, a stereo, and something cooking in the oven...am I at risk of going over 100A service? How big of sub panel? 60A enough? I think the welder needs a 50A breaker and the compressor a 30A?

[loki]

Millermatic 211 is the one I have my eye on. The compressor is likely to be a 5hp 60 gallon unit (Quincy or IR). The lift is a long way off, if ever. The heater is unlikley, I use a little 115v on days warm enough that it has an effect, if it's colder, screw it I'm staying inside. I guess the thing is, if the welder and compressor were running at the same time, I had a load of laundry on, a bunch of lights in the house, a stereo, and something cooking in the oven...am I at risk of going over 100A service? How big of sub panel? 60A enough? I think the welder needs a 50A breaker and the compressor a 30A?

Just sell your house bro ( for fack_dude )

[SomeGuy]

Just sell your house bro ( for fack_dude )

LMAO why?

I would love to move though...I want another garage space so I could actually start on a project car.

[loki]

LMAO why?

I would love to move though...I want another garage space so I could actually start on a project car.

No reason ;)


Lets keep the chatter focused on the original topic at hand

[peterm15]

I have a shop ( actually a game room now) that is not attached to my house. It has it's own panel ponied off the house(?)

There is enough power to run a lot of wood shop tools including a dust collector.


But that wasn't my point.


The place is well built and insulated. It stays cool in the summer and warm in the winter. When it is to cold a 1500w electric heater will heat the place in 30 min and you turn it down to 500w it will maintain it. it's probably close to 500 sqft.

So if your shop is insulated well enough you will have no problem heating it. Truthfully that place is built better then my house in some respects.

[113GT]

guys lol please if you want to tlak about this stuff, make another thread.....I need opinions ad info on MY topic please!

[peterm15]

guys lol please if you want to tlak about this stuff, make another thread.....I need opinions ad info on MY topic please!

Whoops sorry.

Anyways.

If you feel good about the deal then go for it. By the sounds of it though you have your apprehensions.

IMO your best bet is to get a secondary inspection with specialized trades people. ( electrictions, plumbers ect) to see what they have to say. And possibly get quotes. A lot of places do free quotes. At least here. It may be the best idea for you.

If I were buying a house I wouldn't bother hiring an inspector. I would hire traded to inspect their individual specialties.

[CelestSpeed3]

Add GFCI protection to the house circuits. Your electrical is taken care of. I'm not a plumber or a mason so I can't comment on the rest

[peterm15]

Add GFCI protection to the house circuits. Your electrical is taken care of. I'm not a plumber or a mason so I can't comment on the rest

But without seeing it you really don't know for sure If that is the only electrical problem. Frankly a lot of inspectors dont know that either.

[113GT]

thanks :)

We are getting a mason to inspect the brick and a plumber for the quote no fixing the piping (or not fixing but upgrading the pipes)

[113GT]

I wonder if I should get the owners to pay for the mason and plumber inspection since it is their problem (and they can use their quotes and documents as proof that they looked into it for other buyers should I decide to back out)>

[CelestSpeed3]

But without seeing it you really don't know for sure If that is the only electrical problem. Frankly a lot of inspectors dont know that either.

Agreed. I gave him the solution to the info he provided.

In before lights with switched identified conductors.

[peterm15]

I wonder if I should get the owners to pay for the mason and plumber inspection since it is their problem (and they can use their quotes and documents as proof that they looked into it for other buyers should I decide to back out)>

At this point in time.
Your probably gonna loose the deal. Unless the sellers are DESPERATE to sell. ( which it sounds like they are )

Being desperate to sell would also raise red flags for me.

How long have you been looking? Is there better deals ( ex. no work needed)
to be had in the area?

If it was me. I would back out. The amount of problems found only stands for so much. There is probably much more.

For all you know you may need to have the house rewired.( Hidden junction boxes or spliced wires. ) . Your drain pipes could be old damaged clay that need to be replaced. These are always applicable on older homes. BUT seeing as there have already been a lot of problems that have risen, these things are more likely.

If I were you I'd just walk away. Take your time and keep looking.

[peterm15]

Agreed. I gave him the solution to the info he provided.

In before lights with switched identified conductors.

For sure. I frankly don't understand half of what you have posted here. ( I don't touch electrical). But if there is one major problem there is most likely others.

[CelestSpeed3]

His issue is not really a problem. Its just how they used to do things.

Now that we use direct injection you can't really look back at carburetors and call them a problem. Yes the new system is more efficent and makes more power but the old one still got you to work.

[peterm15]

His issue is not really a problem. Its just how they used to do things.

Now that we use direct injection you can't really look back at carburetors and call them a problem. Yes the new system is more efficent and makes more power but the old one still got you to work.

True enough but for new electrical equipment. Doesn't a non grounded plug become a problem. ( I know most of my stuff requires 3 prong plug)

[CelestSpeed3]

They are not compatible, but its an easily fixed issue.

Any issue that OP shouldn't worry about. He will have to deal with it but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

[peterm15]

They are not compatible, but its an easily fixed issue.

Any issue that OP shouldn't worry about. He will have to deal with it but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.

I see.

Just for clarification to people reading this my question was legitimate.

So now it seems to me IF these are the only electrical problems it's not a huge deal.

The same probably goes with the plumbing.

If you have any window questions I can help there. Lol.

[113GT]

lol all the windows were replaced in 2010 so were good there ;)


honestly, the attic was dry, basement dry, no moisture leaking in....

for a house that has said brick issues and the owners never painted (prev. owners did) the house seems to be in good shape....

yes the brick is drying out only on ONE side. the rest of the painted brick and mortar is in great shape.

water pressure is good until you flush the toilet and then it drops.

plumbing is pvc except for the main piping (pvc under the sink in the kitchen, all bathrooms).

the plumbing isnt leaking anywhere.....YET lol

the brick might be able to be saved by putting weep holes and if that is the case, then there is no issue anymore for the brick (obv the side that is damaged needs to be repaired but the sellers are willing to work with us here, i just don;t know how much they are willing to help lol)

the asbestos may not be an issue until I sell and over the course of the life in that house, I can do it one day (the owners would adjust the price if it is positive for asbestos).

the rest is okay.

[113GT]

I can't thank you all enough for all the input! Didn't think I would get this much activity in this thread so THANKS! :D

[Jackal]

this is the mls listing.

Inclusions
Fixtures, blinds, curtains and poles, dishwasher, alarm system, shed, garage door opener, water heaters, pool and acc.

Exclusions
Curtains and poles CCP and nursery.

MLS ® Remarks
Superb detached with walk-garage.Propriété renovated and maintained with care and attention to detail over the ans.Elle offers 3 bedrooms upstairs and 2 bathrooms including a renovated and S-sol.Le finished basement in complete was renovated in 2008-09.La windows, the roof, heat pump and electrical panel are récents.Faites fast!

Addendum
LOCATION LOCATION * LOCATION * Property conveniently located near all the shops and services in common use, groceries, daycare, medical clinic, schools and parks, public transportation, the Cartier metro station and Highway 19.Vous are close to everything! OTHER CARACTÉRSITIQUES -All floors upstairs are wood lath; -floors of the kitchen and bathroom tiles; -The dining area is open to the kitchen and living room ; -sliding French doors between dining room and living room, kitchen-cabinets oak -The SDB is renovated; -3 bedrooms upstairs and a 4th in the basement; -The basement is fully re-built (2008-10); -bathroom in the basement very spacious with large glass shower and laundry area laundry chute; -Family room with brick walls, recessed lighting, dual-energy heating with heat pump; -Doors, windows and roof in good condition; -Lots of storage, cedar closet, large garage, in the basement; -Complete landscaping, fenced yard, large deck, gazebo permanent pool and cabana. IMPROVEMENTS AND RENOVATIONS -Duct Cleaning heating / cooling in 2011; Repairing a crack with a guarantee of 20 years in 2010 -Replacing all front windows in 2010 -Replacing two other windows in the basement in 2008 and 2010 -Replacement the garage door in 2009 , Development of a new comprehensive and very spacious bathroom in the basement in 2009, New heat pump in 2008 with transferable warranty valid until October 2013 -New electrical panel 200 amps in 2008 -room layout in the basement in 2008 New exterior side door in 2007; -pool in 2006 , paving and walls of the garage entrance in 2005 , Roof in 2005 - The bathroom upstairs was also renovated. It will please the most demanding!

Love the Franglais in the bolded section. Made me ROL (Rire out Loud).

These older houses have plenty of character and I also like the spacious front and backyards of these places. I went for a move-in ready place but would consider one in the future if there wasn't that much work to be done. Having said that if you do go for it be ready to budget at least 10K a year in upkeep (after all the initial problems are fixed). Also check with insurance agents to see how much insurance is because some insurance companies won't accept very old homes or hike up the price.

[113GT]

it is not considered a very old home, it was built in 1957 lol

its not a home from the 18th century here.

[113GT]

insurance was quoted around 160 a month (less if I get my auto insurance too with them)

[Jackal]

insurance was quoted around 160 a month (less if I get my auto insurance too with them)

Sounds good. Which way are you leaning now?

[113GT]

I am not sure actually. I think the results from the asbestos test will greatly help in the decision as well as having a mason and plumber give us estimates about the repairs needed will help.

I mean the house is otherwise solid and really nice, up to date and has a nice land size. It is an 8 minute walk to the metro and is near everything!

the area is super nice and is quiet.

Now, the thing is, the houses around the area are going for 330-350k so this may still be a good deal depending on the results from the inspections and how much they want to lower their price. I am thinking 295k is a fair price (for now)

[113GT]

Iunno....

this was the inspection report...

1.Exterior
1.3 Sidewalk
Repair
Earth settlement noted. For safety reasons, we recommend repairs be performed.
Possible trip hazard. For safety measure, we recommend correcting this.
Settling noted near balcony, making the step too high. This is a possible trip hazard. We recommend repairs be
performed to ensure safety.

Siding
Repair

Water is destructive and can infiltrate into any opening no matter how small. It is therefore important to ensure
water-tightness of the building envelope. We therefore recommend sealing all openings/projections (doors,
windows, chimney, electrical fixtures, ventilation outlets, and other) to prevent damages caused by water infiltration.

Damaged/deteriorated bricks noted. We recommend repairs be performed.

Swollen wall noted, possibly caused by water infiltration (or other) behind the wall. We recommend repairs be
performed. We recommend consulting a licensed contractor. (this is most likely due to the painted brick but is really really slight)

Repairs noted. Unable to determine the quality or effectiveness of work. We recommend obtaining further
information about this situation as well as all pertinent documents.

Loose/missing/cracked mortar noted. We recommend repairing/re-pointing masonry joints properly to prevent
damage/deterioration due to water/humidity infiltration. We recommend consulting a licensed mason to evaluate
and correct this situation.

The exterior brick was painted. It is never recommended to paint exterior brick, the brick must breathe and let water
vapor dissipate. We recommend contacting a licensed brick layer for more information.

Soffits fascia
Réparer - Repair

The wood cornices are covered with ventilated soffits. No openings appear to have been made. We recommend
removing presents soffits and making openings as required, in order to enhance air circulation in the attic, to
prevent moisture/humidity accumulation and damage/deterioration to the structure.

Electricité - Outlets (exterior)
Repair

Ground fault interrupter was defective/inoperable at time of inspection. Repair or replace as required, for safety

Gutter

Debris/leaves noted. We recommend that gutters and downspouts be cleaned and flushed with water to prevent
blockage and moisture damage due to water backup.

Some joints are not watertight. We recommend correcting this condition to ensure proper drainage

The gutter needs to be tightened against fascia and sealed .

Foundation

- Repair

Settling cracks noted. We recommend repairing and sealing these cracks to prevent potential water infiltration
damages. Therefore, we recommend consulting a licensed contractor to evaluate and correct this situation. this is normal in 99.9% of homes and is not an issue but should be watched. all houses in quebec have settling cracks (minor cracks)

Repairs noted. Unable to determine the quality or effectiveness of work. We recommend obtaining further
information about this situation as well as all pertinent documents

Ventilation

Soffit vents are blocked. We recommend clearing/opening soffit vents in order to enhance air circulation in the attic,
prevent moisture/humidity accumulation and avoid damage/deterioration to the structure.

Duct

Uninsulated ducts noted. It is recommended that attic ducts be insulated to prevent possible condensation. We
recommend correcting this situation.

Electricity

Ungrounded two prong outlets noted. This type of installation was common when the house was built. We
recommend upgrading the system to protect various electrical devices connected to the electrical system.

Plumbing distribution

Plumbing cross connections noted. The chemical reaction of these different metals could contaminate the water.
This is a health concern. We recommend consulting a licensed plumber to evaluate and correct this situation.

Galvanised water pipes rust from the inside out and can become restricted over time. When low water flow or slow
drainage is noted at plumbing fixtures, some restriction may have occurred. As a precaution, client should consult a
licensed plumber, as well as your insurance company.

the rest was for the outlets missing a GFI (or gfi present but not working)

[CelestSpeed3]

Asbestos is not a problem either just don't touch it. LoL.

If you have to work on it or your contractors just be aware of it as a hazard. Standard ceiling tiles are just as bad for you. Ever see the warning label.

[113GT]

http://imageshack.us/a/img593/9805/issues.png

[113GT]

95% of the brick and mortar look perfect...he just took pics of the bad areas. (a few bricks spalled)

[dambay]

Asbestos is not a problem either just don't touch it. LoL.

If you have to work on it or your contractors just be aware of it as a hazard. Standard ceiling tiles are just as bad for you. Ever see the warning label.

Drop ceiling tiles contain non friable asbestos meaning its not a concern so long as they are in good condition (the asbestos fibres are contained inside the structural matrix of the tiles). The insulation is different because it is friable, and so is more likely to become air born. So yeah, don't touch it. Its a pretty involved procedure to have it removed. If you are going to or already have purchased the house, you could also consider testing the air quality in the house, specifically the attic, to see if there is an airborne asbestos concern

[peterm15]

This is more of a question.

But since your getting water penetration within the brink.I worse came to worse couldn't you just cover the brick with siding?

Old houses are much better IMO. as long as the deal your getting + reno costs doesn't outdo your budget or highly exceed the cost of an already renovated houses in the area I don't see a problem.

[113GT]

we are going to see what the sellers say about a new price.

considering this....our original offer as 315k (they were asking 325) and houses in the area go for 330-350k

what do you think of 290k? is that still a low ball offer?

[whywhyzee]

The house seems to have several major issues which need to be addressed. I would want to have a good handle on the estimated costs for every repair before making another offer - it can add up quick. After paying for the repairs, you may be into the price range of many other homes in the neighbourhood = more to choose from. It sounds like you've got your heart set on this house - remember to stay objective and buy with your head - not your heart. Good Luck!!

[peterm15]

The house seems to have several major issues which need to be addressed. I would want to have a good handle on the estimated costs for every repair before making another offer - it can add up quick. After paying for the repairs, you may be into the price range of many other homes in the neighbourhood = more to choose from. It sounds like you've got your heart set on this house - remember to stay objective and buy with your head - not your heart. Good Luck!!

+1.

290 could be an excessive offer if the repairs exceed a certain amount

Extreme example.

Repairs cost you 100k.
House is only work 320k

You have paid 70k to much.

[113GT]

Alright, so Tests came back as negative for asbestos in the vermiculite.

I am assuming (will get the report with details) for now that they took more than one sample to get tested since they recommend 3 samples. Multitest (company doing the test) charges $150 for the first sample and $100 for each additional sample but only charge for the samples tested. so if the first sample tests positive, they stop and only charge $!50. I saw a cheque from the selles for over 250$ if i remember correctly so I think we are in the clear for that!!

They agreed to pay for half of the cost to get a structural engineer to give a written report that the building is ok and what needs to be done. (I think that if he signs it off as being ok and what needs to be done, they are accountable for any issues from their conclusion that was incorrect).

its $500 to get a verbal and another $500 for a detailed written report...

$1000 in total but it's split half way

[113GT]

The house seems to have several major issues which need to be addressed. I would want to have a good handle on the estimated costs for every repair before making another offer - it can add up quick. After paying for the repairs, you may be into the price range of many other homes in the neighbourhood = more to choose from. It sounds like you've got your heart set on this house - remember to stay objective and buy with your head - not your heart. Good Luck!!

true!

the plumbing would be done by my fiances uncle who is a contracter and can be done for much cheaper compared to getting an outside guy.

since there is no issue with the vermiculite, that's good and out of the way!

he can also have the electrical done (by his licensed electricians) and have GFI's installed where needed.

all that is left is the brick.


We need to repair 1 asphalt shingle (not right away). We need to open up the blocked soffits, and clean the gutters and make sure it;'s water right.

now it doesn't seem to bad....